Is it time to let some Scottish clubs die?

[tartofmidlothian]

Wouldn't wish the death of a club on any fan, but many in charge of them have earned a fair amount of schadenfreude.

 

I can see why a quick-fix reform in the summer may have been tricky, but it'll be needed soon. An eighteen team Premiership, an eighteen team Championship, Highland and Lowland below. Governed by a rep from each Premiership team, two to four delegates from the Championship and one from each league below.

[fila]

If clubs do go bust, then they have no one else to blame , they had an opportunity to change things this year but decided the status quo was fine , it was a case of Whatever you want , and Down Down for Hearts ......

[Tasavallan]

11 hours ago, ToadKiller Dog said:

I would go different 

14 team premier (would like bigger but not realistic)

16 or 18 league championship 

The rest split to regional leagues east n west or north n south , with juniors or others who want in ,gives the ambitious small sides a chance and the dead weights will find a place where the bus fair isn't that bad .

 

Generally agree but having the Premiership/Championship made up of 30 or 32 clubs in total is too many. There are currently only 22(?) full-time professional clubs in Scotland.   The top 2 leagues should be limited to full-time clubs, below that a pyramid system on a regional basis.  Promotion from the lower leagues is by invitation and only if the club goes full-time.  There should be no mandatory relegation from the higher full-time pro-league to the lower part-time leagues.

 

To maintain the 4 OF money spinners each season, the Premiership cannot realistically exceed 12 teams so a Championship of 10 teams based on current numbers of full-time clubs.

 

As has been mentioned already, there are too many lower league clubs that play to 200+ spectators and rely on weekly lottery draws to finance the club.  

[Libertarian]

16 hours ago, 3fingersreid said:

Prior to that vote I would always defend the lower league teams , now it’s simply a case of I don’t care a jot about them 

That's exactly where I'm at. Couldn't care less if any other club goes under. They didn't think twice about sticking the knife into us.

[Randy Marsh]

Scotland should copy Holland.  Have two pro leagues.  I dont think Promotion/Relagation to and from level two is in place at the moment as around 5 clubs have gone bust in recent years.  These clubs were unable to stay professional so the top clubs filled the voids left by playing thier youth sides in the 2nd tier.  Basically anything below level two is considered amatuer and a club winning the league would have to prove they have the resources in place to become professional to be eligible for promotion.  Scotland should role out something similar.  Top league of 14 with 2nd tier of 18/20 including colt sides to make up the numbers. 

[Beast Boy]

1 hour ago, Tasavallan said:

To maintain the 4 OF money spinners each season, the Premiership cannot realistically exceed 12 teams so a Championship of 10 teams based on current numbers of full-time clubs.

There is zero point in changing the current set up, if we maintain this. It’s a massive part of the problem. Nothing changes until we ditch this.

[Harry Potter]

19 hours ago, Neil Dongcaster said:

Even if those clubs are holding up progress of the game?

exactly.

[Busby8]

20 hours ago, 3fingersreid said:

Prior to that vote I would always defend the lower league teams , now it’s simply a case of I don’t care a jot about them 

 

Yup. Me too.

[CAI]

It's quite sad how many on here DGAF about the lower league teams. We are in a pretty privileged position. Hearts are a football team with their home in the Capital of Scotland.Of course we are going to pick up 1000s of fans and even more so when the Club is doing well. 

 

Have fun winning a league or a cup when only 12-14 teams are viable to survive in the whole of Scotland. 

[Beast Boy]

7 minutes ago, CAI said:

It's quite sad how many on here DGAF about the lower league teams. We are in a pretty privileged position. Hearts are a football team with their home in the Capital of Scotland.Of course we are going to pick up 1000s of fans and even more so when the Club is doing well. 

 

Have fun winning a league or a cup when only 12-14 teams are viable to survive in the whole of Scotland. 

These same clubs have stood in the way of changes that would have benefitted them and the whole sport. Winning those cups and leagues would still be more satisfying than sitting in the bottom division of a league that stymies the progress of progressive teams and clubs with the potential to move up and add more value to the sport. Same with the top division, shite like St Johnstone needing their stadium filled by Perth residing OF fans so they can afford to pay Stevie May and the like. Utter pish as a product.

[Thomaso]

YES! 👍

Lets start with St Liedown and Hamilton.

[Thomaso]

25 minutes ago, CAI said:

It's quite sad how many on here DGAF about the lower league teams. We are in a pretty privileged position. Hearts are a football team with their home in the Capital of Scotland.Of course we are going to pick up 1000s of fans and even more so when the Club is doing well. 

 

Have fun winning a league or a cup when only 12-14 teams are viable to survive in the whole of Scotland. 

We didn’t start this tribalism! Our CEO did all she could to change Scottish football for the good of all since she bought Hearts and they laughed in her face! The “lower league teams” you refer to voted to eject Hearts and others out their leagues - “Take yer medicine” was the catch word.....feck them all.

Edited September 30, 2020 by Thomaso

[The Gorgie]

Meh not our concern, their fans should rally behind their team if they are so worried.

[Thomaso]

10 hours ago, tartofmidlothian said:

Wouldn't wish the death of a club on any fan, but many in charge of them have earned a fair amount of schadenfreude.

 

Have you missed the smug glee from fans of clubs all over Scottish football at the way Hearts have been shafted? 
Now THEY can take their medicine!

[A_A wehatethehibs]

Not time for them to die, but time for a proper segregation between the professional clubs and the non professional clubs. The clue is in the name Scottish PROFESSIONAL Football League - it should not have any part time clubs in it. Being a full time club should be a pre requisite.

 

[lewis2006]

3 hours ago, Randy Marsh said:

Scotland should copy Holland.  Have two pro leagues.  I dont think Promotion/Relagation to and from level two is in place at the moment as around 5 clubs have gone bust in recent years.  These clubs were unable to stay professional so the top clubs filled the voids left by playing thier youth sides in the 2nd tier.  Basically anything below level two is considered amatuer and a club winning the league would have to prove they have the resources in place to become professional to be eligible for promotion.  Scotland should role out something similar.  Top league of 14 with 2nd tier of 18/20 including colt sides to make up the numbers. 

 

100% this. The Eredivisie and Juplier leagues are the right format for Scottish football. Far to many tinpot clubs in Scotland trying to mascarade as professional clubs.

[Rogue Daddy]

22 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

We didn’t start this tribalism! Our CEO did all she could to change Scottish football for the good of all since she bought Hearts and they laughed in her face! The “lower league teams” you refer to voted to eject Hearts and others out their leagues - “Take yer medicine” was the catch word.....feck them all.

 

Sad, petty, vengeful, 2 wrongs don't make a right etc, etc.... but this is exactly where I am. As you say, FECK THEM ALL!

 

We were screwed big time along with PT and Stranraer... and most have laughed it off. They couldn't have given a feck if we went under while they begged for their little payout. The ironic thing is, we'll come back stronger while some of them will cease to be. I won't be losing any sleep, they had their chance to do the right thing. FECK THEM!

[Boof]

10 hours ago, fila said:

If clubs do go bust, then they have no one else to blame , they had an opportunity to change things this year but decided the status quo was fine , it was a case of Whatever you want , and Down Down for Hearts ......

 

Aye - too many of those chairmen guilty of burning bridges. I'd like to say I ain't complaining but, like it or not, I didn't mean it...etc etc  

[Mr Sifter]

Get the feeling I’m in the minority here but for me, it’s all about Hearts. And only Hearts. I couldn’t give a **** if any club in Scotland dies, they collectively ****ed us over so hell mend them. 

 

This is whole summer has made me very very bitter about Scottish football in general and if pushed, I’d have to admit I DO actually want to see clubs go to the wall. It’s not somethin that’s keeping me awake at night, but at the same time aye, I’d like to see a few go under. I want them all to rue the day they consciously decided to try and take the ***** out of Heart of Midlothian. 

 

**** them all. 

[18Jambo_dave74]

4 minutes ago, Mr Sifter said:

Get the feeling I’m in the minority here but for me, it’s all about Hearts. And only Hearts. I couldn’t give a **** if any club in Scotland dies, they collectively ****ed us over so hell mend them. 

 

This is whole summer has made me very very bitter about Scottish football in general and if pushed, I’d have to admit I DO actually want to see clubs go to the wall. It’s not somethin that’s keeping me awake at night, but at the same time aye, I’d like to see a few go under. I want them all to rue the day they consciously decided to try and take the ***** out of Heart of Midlothian. 

 

**** them all. 

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

When we were in administration and on the brink, I'm pretty sure every visiting team that could muster up an away support were happy to sing about us going bust etc. Other supporters glee at our position was fairly evident back then. 

 

Now we are in a position that has seen us majorly harmed, both on the pitch and financially, due to the votes of other clubs. Again, supporters from other clubs are quite happy to see Hearts suffer. No sympathy from me.

 

Why don't the fans of other clubs that get in to financial difficulties start raising funds and attempt to save their club. 

 

 

[Nookie Bear]

1 hour ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

We didn’t start this tribalism! Our CEO did all she could to change Scottish football for the good of all since she bought Hearts and they laughed in her face! The “lower league teams” you refer to voted to eject Hearts and others out their leagues - “Take yer medicine” was the catch word.....feck them all.

We lost millions because clubs are voting on the basis of affording a bus trip to Brora. 
 

Get back to Sunday leagues. 

[fila]

44 minutes ago, Boof said:

 

Aye - too many of those chairmen guilty of burning bridges. I'd like to say I ain't complaining but, like it or not, I didn't mean it...etc etc  

👍

[wavydavy]

Dundee Utd seem to have money. They seem to be about to sign this guy on a permanent deal.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54342943

[Kidd’s Boots]

I think a number of clubs in Scotland are dead, but won’t lie down. Without the structure in the SPFL they would be unviable businesses. The Dutch model is something that should be looked at when the 6th Floor at Hampden has been rid of the present incumbents of both SPFL & SFA.

[Beast Boy]

7 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

Dundee Utd seem to have money. They seem to be about to sign this guy on a permanent deal.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54342943

Spending what they don’t have because they are ****ed either way, perhaps?

[Zico]

1 hour ago, Mr Sifter said:

Get the feeling I’m in the minority here but for me, it’s all about Hearts. And only Hearts. I couldn’t give a **** if any club in Scotland dies, they collectively ****ed us over so hell mend them. 

 

This is whole summer has made me very very bitter about Scottish football in general and if pushed, I’d have to admit I DO actually want to see clubs go to the wall. It’s not somethin that’s keeping me awake at night, but at the same time aye, I’d like to see a few go under. I want them all to rue the day they consciously decided to try and take the ***** out of Heart of Midlothian. 

 

**** them all. 

****ing right. I hope 34 of them die. 

[jager man]

3 hours ago, CAI said:

It's quite sad how many on here DGAF about the lower league teams. We are in a pretty privileged position. Hearts are a football team with their home in the Capital of Scotland.Of course we are going to pick up 1000s of fans and even more so when the Club is doing well. 

 

Have fun winning a league or a cup when only 12-14 teams are viable to survive in the whole of Scotland. 

Some of the teams in the lower leagues come from towns who DGAF about them. So why should we? Teams like Albion Rovers (coatbridge) have probably about 90% celtic fans 5% rangers fans and the rest made up of Airdrie and Rovers. If a teams own local people don't care then they don't deserve to be bailed out.

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, wavydavy said:

Dundee Utd seem to have money. They seem to be about to sign this guy on a permanent deal.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54342943

Someone may have given them money for their manager irc 😜. 

[AndrewB]

13 hours ago, fila said:

If clubs do go bust, then they have no one else to blame , they had an opportunity to change things this year but decided the status quo was fine , it was a case of Whatever you want , and Down Down for Hearts ......

Roll Over Lay Down they told us.  We said What You're proposing is Lies.  We probably told them that Forty Five Hundred Times.

[Glamorgan Jambo]

There should be a proper pyramid in Scottish football and leagues should be managed according to where they sit in the pyramid. The issue of too much power being vested in the hands of the two big Glasgow clubs and the long tail of semi professional clubs should be addressed. 

 

East Stirling survived for years because there was no mechanism for removing them from the league. As soon as they went down they carried on going down and won’t be back in League 2 anytime soon. Donald Finlay was correct when he said League 2 clubs were terrified of Brora and Kelty Hearts. 
 

There should be a proper executive body running the leagues not a bowling club committee with an overpaid chief executive and chairman paying too much attention to what their backers say and not enough to what is the right thing (today’s decisions on different sub numbers per league and competition were utterly absurd).

[newbie]

I suspect there’s a lot more to play out in the wake of the pandemic before we can even plan with any certainty for the upcoming Championship season, never mind revamping the leagues for the future.

 

There are many negative comments in this thread about the perceived unfairness of a Brechin City or Albion Rovers having a vote of equal power to our own, and that of the top Premiership clubs. I’d wager these comments were made by individuals, with no sense of irony, who rightly decry the unfairness of the stranglehold held by the big two, Celtic and Rangers*, both in terms of influencing every decision of the football authorities and maintaining their endlessly boring duopoly regards top-league titles.

 

Celtic/Rangers* fans complain that their clubs are stifled by a severe lack of domestic competition. Bizarrely, they see themselves as fully-qualified candidates for a place in the grotesquely over-rated, over-financed and hopefully over-soon EPL, with elevation to the elite status of Barcelona, Real Madrid or Bayern Munich waiting for them beyond. They seem oblivious to the fact that football is now first and foremost about driving money into FIFA and UEFA’s coffers and it serves those bodies well to look after those elite leagues and clubs while largely ignoring lesser leagues and clubs such as our own. 

 

Celtic/Rangers* are seemingly oblivious to the fact that they treat the other 40 SPFL clubs with the same degree of disdain as Celtic/Rangers* are treated by the elite level they aspire to.
That is why I would urge caution before we ourselves treat the lower league clubs as dispensable just because we’re used to being the third biggest club in the country. Every club has its place and a right to an equal vote. Or if you think smaller clubs having equal voting rights to be unfair, would you prefer that Celtic and Rangers* merit 10 voting rights each, to our one, for example?

 

Nobody except Celtic or the old Rangers has won the top-flight league title for 35 years, and there’s little sign of things changing anytime soon. Even when one of the duopoly died an entirely self-inflicted death following a decade of industrial-scale cheating, our myopic football authorities concocted a secretive five-way agreement in which they’ve agreed to treat Charles Green’s new club as if it was the old defunct club, mostly for the purposes of broadcasting and other commercial contracts.

 

Any thought given to the prospect of Hearts, Aberdeen, Dundee United or others replacing dead Rangers at the top of the tree, eventually winning league titles in the fullness of time? Don’t be ludicrous! The one and only financially viable option dictates that we must suck up at least another 35 years of the same tedious outcome because broadcasters insist on 4 Celtic/Rangers* games per season. They might as well write into the regulations that neither of the gruesome twosome can be relegated, or even finish in the bottom six!!

 

Just a reminder that every SPFL club, including ours, signed up to this perpetual mediocrity, subservience and feeding off scraps and crumbs. Shame on all of us.
 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

7 minutes ago, newbie said:

There are many negative comments in this thread about the perceived unfairness of a Brechin City or Albion Rovers having a vote of equal power to our own, and that of the top Premiership clubs. I’d wager these comments were made by individuals, with no sense of irony, who rightly decry the unfairness of the stranglehold held by the big two, Celtic and Rangers*, both in terms of influencing every decision of the football authorities and maintaining their endlessly boring duopoly regards top-league titles.
 

 

 

Don't think there's any irony at all. There's no comparison between fans of a professional, competitive club like Hearts (or Hibs, Aberdeen, etc) complaining about the stranglehold of the OF and at the same time complaining about PT, practically amateur, clubs with zero ambition to progress (or any hope of doing so) having a say in important decisions that affect the futures of professional clubs, such as the recent votes on ending the league and reconstruction.

 

All clubs should be full-time with full-time professional set-ups if they want to be in the main professional league and have a say in how that league is run and structured. 

 

Everyone else can still have a chance of doing that through the pyramid, but they can't get access unless they become a full-time professional club. Then they get a vote on things that affects the future of professional football clubs.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

3 hours ago, lewis2006 said:

 

100% this. The Eredivisie and Juplier leagues are the right format for Scottish football. Far to many tinpot clubs in Scotland trying to mascarade as professional clubs.

 

Agree with this as well, but leave the door open for clubs that can run themselves as a professional full-time football club with facilities to match.

[Forkbeard]

3 hours ago, wavydavy said:

Dundee Utd seem to have money. They seem to be about to sign this guy on a permanent deal.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54342943

How far have their supporters had to walk to afford that? 

[The Natural Order]

Two leagues of twelve.  Let the rest die.

[wavydavy]

2 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Someone may have given them money for their manager irc 😜. 

 

Doubt it as he resigned.

[Nookie Bear]

1 hour ago, newbie said:

I suspect there’s a lot more to play out in the wake of the pandemic before we can even plan with any certainty for the upcoming Championship season, never mind revamping the leagues for the future.

 

There are many negative comments in this thread about the perceived unfairness of a Brechin City or Albion Rovers having a vote of equal power to our own, and that of the top Premiership clubs. I’d wager these comments were made by individuals, with no sense of irony, who rightly decry the unfairness of the stranglehold held by the big two, Celtic and Rangers*, both in terms of influencing every decision of the football authorities and maintaining their endlessly boring duopoly regards top-league titles.

 

Celtic/Rangers* fans complain that their clubs are stifled by a severe lack of domestic competition. Bizarrely, they see themselves as fully-qualified candidates for a place in the grotesquely over-rated, over-financed and hopefully over-soon EPL, with elevation to the elite status of Barcelona, Real Madrid or Bayern Munich waiting for them beyond. They seem oblivious to the fact that football is now first and foremost about driving money into FIFA and UEFA’s coffers and it serves those bodies well to look after those elite leagues and clubs while largely ignoring lesser leagues and clubs such as our own. 

 

Celtic/Rangers* are seemingly oblivious to the fact that they treat the other 40 SPFL clubs with the same degree of disdain as Celtic/Rangers* are treated by the elite level they aspire to.
That is why I would urge caution before we ourselves treat the lower league clubs as dispensable just because we’re used to being the third biggest club in the country. Every club has its place and a right to an equal vote. Or if you think smaller clubs having equal voting rights to be unfair, would you prefer that Celtic and Rangers* merit 10 voting rights each, to our one, for example?

 

Nobody except Celtic or the old Rangers has won the top-flight league title for 35 years, and there’s little sign of things changing anytime soon. Even when one of the duopoly died an entirely self-inflicted death following a decade of industrial-scale cheating, our myopic football authorities concocted a secretive five-way agreement in which they’ve agreed to treat Charles Green’s new club as if it was the old defunct club, mostly for the purposes of broadcasting and other commercial contracts.

 

Any thought given to the prospect of Hearts, Aberdeen, Dundee United or others replacing dead Rangers at the top of the tree, eventually winning league titles in the fullness of time? Don’t be ludicrous! The one and only financially viable option dictates that we must suck up at least another 35 years of the same tedious outcome because broadcasters insist on 4 Celtic/Rangers* games per season. They might as well write into the regulations that neither of the gruesome twosome can be relegated, or even finish in the bottom six!!

 

Just a reminder that every SPFL club, including ours, signed up to this perpetual mediocrity, subservience and feeding off scraps and crumbs. Shame on all of us.
 

Big difference between our relationship with the old firm and our very existence being thrown into doubt by bowling club committees. 
 

Let them rot. 

[Pasquale for King]

28 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

Doubt it as he resigned.

We paid them compensation, ffs there’s some Ill informed ****ers on here 🙈. There’s a ****ing thread on it.https://www.dundeeunitedfc.co.uk/news/6495/CLUB-STATEMENT-ROBBIE-NEILSON-.html

[newbie]

39 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

Big difference between our relationship with the old firm and our very existence being thrown into doubt by bowling club committees. 
 

 

How so? Only a meaningless operating company dies in the liquidation process, while the immortal metaphysical club continues debt-free. The future existence of every club in Scotland, including Heart of Midlothian FC, is secure thanks to those visionary football authorities being ahead of the game. 

[Nookie Bear]

1 minute ago, newbie said:

How so? Only a meaningless operating company dies in the liquidation process, while the immortal metaphysical club continues debt-free. The future existence of every club in Scotland, including Heart of Midlothian FC, is secure thanks to those visionary football authorities being ahead of the game. 

You’ve lost me, riddler. 

[Mikey1874]

So Brechin get to veto anything. 

[NANOJAMBO]

3 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

You’ve lost me, riddler. 

Rangers : any club can go bust and simply be brought back to life and we all carry on as if nothing happened ie there is no threat to Scottish clubs, they are immortal in the eyes of the footballing authorities and Sevco are the living proof of that. 

 

I think. 

[newbie]

10 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Rangers : any club can go bust and simply be brought back to life and we all carry on as if nothing happened ie there is no threat to Scottish clubs, they are immortal in the eyes of the footballing authorities and Sevco are the living proof of that. 

 

I think. 

 

Precisely correct - excuse my poor effort at sarcasm.

Edited September 30, 2020 by newbie

[wavydavy]

50 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

We paid them compensation, ffs there’s some Ill informed ****ers on here 🙈. There’s a ****ing thread on it.https://www.dundeeunitedfc.co.uk/news/6495/CLUB-STATEMENT-ROBBIE-NEILSON-.html

 

Sorry hadn't realised it or I wouldn't have made the comment. There aren't half some touchy fcukers on here too, There isn''t a thread on that though do you fancy starting one?

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, wavydavy said:

 

Sorry hadn't realised it or I wouldn't have made the comment. There aren't half some touchy fcukers on here too, There isn''t a thread on that though do you fancy starting one?

I have this crazy thing about checking stuff before I come on and disagreeing  with folk, you should try it some time. 

 

[DH1986]

2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I have this crazy thing about checking stuff before I come on and disagreeing  with folk, you should try it some time. 

 

You mean like when you said Andy Halliday had no offers from other clubs since leaving Rangers ?

[Pasquale for King]

46 minutes ago, DH1986 said:

You mean like when you said Andy Halliday had no offers from other clubs since leaving Rangers ?

Have we got any actual proof that there were? Having watched his interview I was quite impressed with him and wherever the offers were from they weren’t financially viable.  I could be mistaken but I think I said offers from

England or the US where he said he wanted to go, but I could be wrong and I’m happy to be accept it. 
Unlike Davy I actually realise that a football manager can’t actually just resign when an offer is made from another club and leave without compensation. 

[NLTFTh]

Where's the popcorn?

Tick Tock.....

[Nookie Bear]

1 hour ago, newbie said:

 

Precisely correct - excuse my poor effort at sarcasm.

No worries, I get it now 👍🏻

[And he’s not praying!]

I’ll sign up to message boards the length and breadth of the country when the shit hits the fan.

 

I’ll revel in their misery.

 

All of them.