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jambo_74
2 minutes ago, Cade said:

The "defund the police" message does NOT mean "abolish the police".

It means "stop spending tens of millions on making the police into a paramilitary militia and spend that money on community based initiatives instead".

Correct and well said. Unfortunately, like a high number of points well made, it will undoubtedly go over the heads of many.

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Pasquale for King
7 hours ago, fabienleclerq said:

See this sort of stuff helps no one and is what puts people off the left. If you don't agree with them you're a racist etc, does more damage to their cause than good. 

 

As with neilsons plane this one was hired by the dregs of society stirred up by shite stuff like this on social media. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No if you’re a racist you’re a racist, sorry if you can’t grasp that. 

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Steve_Jersey_HMFC
59 minutes ago, JimKongUno said:

 People are entitled to decide for themselves what matters to them. Some people might not give a **** about white lives, black lives or any other lives. Don't need some do gooder smug arseholes to tell me repeatedly what I should think 

 

:cornette:

 

Whilst it is right that that people shouldn't shove their opinions down others throats on a host of matters, anyone who considers that black lives and all lives matter isn't a "smug do gooder arsehole". However, the term "arsehole" is certainly appropriate for anyone who, as you put it does "not give a **** about white lives, black lives or any other lives."

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Pasquale for King
2 hours ago, Sarah O said:

Willing to place a bet that  the Scottish White Lives/All Matter brigade are the same people who also delight in; 

 

Hating Catholics so much they sing they are up to their knees in Catholic blood.

 

Screaming about asylum seekers not having the right to come to Britain as their lifeless corpses wash ashore. 

 

I'll also put a side bet on they love waving UJ's about and voted for Brexit. 

 

.

 

Not a redeeming quality to be found. 

 

 

 

 

Spot on.

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JackLadd

Are other leagues in Europe taking a knee and wearing blm shirts? I somehow doubt they are.

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fabienleclerq
5 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

No if you’re a racist you’re a racist, sorry if you can’t grasp that. 

 

😂 You're like a parody of the left. 

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Pasquale for King
2 hours ago, HighTimes said:

I'm taking the charitable view that everyone on here giving it 'All lives matter' are just really, really thick or closet hobos.  Surely there's no actual racist ***** in our support?

Unfortunately there is, someone up there mentioned concentration camps and the mods haven’t removed it.

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Pasquale for King
3 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

😂 You're like a parody of the left. 

Yeah and you find the right are ok because they just do what they usually do, whereas the left are trying to be progressive and make positive changes. 

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fabienleclerq
1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

Yeah and you find the right are ok because they just do what they usually do, whereas the left are trying to be progressive and make positive changes. 

😂

 

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Lone Striker
12 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

why all this blm  at a football game in the first place? 

I know this is on the back of the stabbings in Reading.  3 white folk got stabbed to death. 

 

Football is more and more being used as a political vessel  to get points across. 

That pisses me off tbh. 

 

I don't want SNP shite, Catholic shite, black shite, white shite or loyalist shite at a football game tbh. 

 

Racism and imo other hatred is a growing issue again acriss the globe, but is the recent black lives matter movement effective at all  in any way? 

 

For most normal folk, they already knew black lives matters, they know all lives matters. 

 

A small group of far right groups, organisations and individuals don't think like this, but this campaign won't change that. 

 

What is the goal of marching and protesting for black life's matters, the folk that already think like that don't need to change and the groups that are the issue, this sort of thing doesn't touch the sides with them. 

 

If anything I think this movement and the way it's taken over everything is agitating many folk in the middle ground and doing more harm to he wider anti racist and hatred movement in general.

 

I didn't like the blm slogan, but to compare it and use it to white lives matters is showing an ignorance of history beyond belief. 

 

The world is ****ed atm tbh. 

 

 

 

 

 

Good post.    Agree with most of it.    The white folk joining in the BLM marches probably represent the viewpoint of the majority of white folk in this country - which is encouraging to see - but the racist minority will continue to  hold their poisonous attitude, and the extreme & dangerous section of them will feel emboldened to defend "our country" in their disgusting way .   

 

Another thing to point out - black on black gun & knife crime (mainly in the big English cities) undermines the intention behind the BLM message following the Floyd murder by the police.   The whole subject of racial tensions is a minefield, unfortunately.

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Pasquale for King
6 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

Are other leagues in Europe taking a knee and wearing blm shirts? I somehow doubt they are.

Why don’t you do some research. Hertha Berlin did it in 2017. German teams do it now.

https://m.dw.com/en/bundesliga-teams-take-a-knee-to-support-black-lives-matter-movement/a-53719904

 

Italian teams. Racist problem there is bad.

https://www.wantedinrome.com/news/george-floyd-death-italian-footballers-take-knee.html

 

Do you have a problem with it? Fifa don’t.


 

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Pasquale for King
1 hour ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Using a child to get across someone's (I assue a parent's) political view?

 

:fonzie:

Concentration camps 👍🏽

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Pasquale for King
1 hour ago, i8hibsh said:

What I object to is there are only 2 options when the left get their teeth into something.  Go along with it in support or be Adolf Hitler.

You want concentration camps for terrorist? People are free to believe what they want, saying it out loud or typing can be illegal though.

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jambo_74
20 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

😂 You're like a parody of the left. 

So let me get this straight, you now think the boy is exaggerating his stance for comedic effect?

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Pasquale for King

Good guy

wank

good guy 

wank

wank

wank

good guy

good girl

good girl

wank 

racist

racist wank

good guy.

 

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Lone Striker
2 hours ago, Dallas Green said:

 

Scotland is a much more tolerant place than it was than when I was a kid. However, there are still a bunch of knuckle dragging morons who will racially abuse and assault people who have a darker skin colour than themselves. White kids arent picked on for the colour of their skin. Black and Asian kids are. That's racism.

We'd like to think Scotland is more tolerant than it was 30-40 years ago ...... but the concept of tolerance and respect for others covers more than just the colour of your skin.  The annual orange marches and counter marches are an example .... and the filth that gets ignored by the media at each OF bigot-fest.       White kids don't get bullied for their skin colour - true - but dafties and ar5eholes tend to  find other reasons for inflicting mental and/or physical torture on innocent youngsters.

 

 

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Pasquale for King
Just now, jambo_74 said:

So let me get this straight, you now think the boy is exaggerating his stance for comedic effect?

I’m here all week 👐🏽

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i8hibsh
5 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

You want concentration camps for terrorist? 

 

 

I do yes.

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JackLadd
6 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Why don’t you do some research. Hertha Berlin did it in 2017. German teams do it now.

https://m.dw.com/en/bundesliga-teams-take-a-knee-to-support-black-lives-matter-movement/a-53719904

 

Italian teams. Racist problem there is bad.

https://www.wantedinrome.com/news/george-floyd-death-italian-footballers-take-knee.html

 

Do you have a problem with it? Fifa don’t.


 

 

Nope, it is what it is. I have never abused any black player on the pitch in my 35 years watching Hearts btw, but neither have I chastised those that did so I am probably culpable. Won't be taking any knees though.

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jambo_74
3 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I’m here all week 👐🏽

 

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fabienleclerq
6 minutes ago, jambo_74 said:

So let me get this straight, you now think the boy is exaggerating his stance for comedic effect?

With the everyone that disagrees with me is a racist routine, yeah. 

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Pasquale for King
3 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

Nope, it is what it is. I have never abused any black player on the pitch in my 35 years watching Hearts btw, but neither have I chastised those that did so I am probably culpable. Won't be taking any knees though.

Have you abused catholic’s? I have. Have we moved on? Some of us have.

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i8hibsh
Just now, Pasquale for King said:

Have you abused catholic’s? I have. Have we moved on? Some of us have.

 

 

Religion hasn't sadly.

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Pasquale for King
1 minute ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Religion hasn't sadly.

Agreed.

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JimKongUno
39 minutes ago, Steve_Jersey_HMFC said:

 

:cornette:

 

Whilst it is right that that people shouldn't shove their opinions down others throats on a host of matters, anyone who considers that black lives and all lives matter isn't a "smug do gooder arsehole". However, the term "arsehole" is certainly appropriate for anyone who, as you put it does "not give a **** about white lives, black lives or any other lives."

 

The smug do gooder arseholes are the same arseholes that are all over the good cause of the day. I get it BLM means alot to some people, but theres Alot of folk that didn't give a shit about it a few weeks ago shouting very loud and whenever the next good cause comes along they will soon forget about BLM to smugly champion the next moral crusade. 

 

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jambo_74
2 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

With the everyone that disagrees with me is a racist routine, yeah. 

8 hours ago, fabienleclerq said:

See this sort of stuff helps no one and is what puts people off the left. If you don't agree with them you're a racist etc, does more damage to their cause than good. 

 

As with neilsons plane this one was hired by the dregs of society stirred up by shite stuff like this on social media. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No if you’re a racist you’re a racist, sorry if you can’t grasp that. 

 

Going by the above, it doesn't look like that's what was said. You brought up the 'if you don't agree...racist etc', Pasquale For King merely stated 'if you’re a racist you’re a racist'. I can't see anywhere suggesting disagreeing, equals racist. Maybe I've missed something.

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Shooter McGavin

Mental that people can’t agree that black people should be treated equally in 2020.

 

Also mental that people are outraged that black people want equality in 2020. 
 

If you don’t agree with the principle behind BLM, please **** off and live the rest of your life away from society.

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i8hibsh
16 minutes ago, JimKongUno said:

 

The smug do gooder arseholes are the same arseholes that are all over the good cause of the day. I get it BLM means alot to some people, but theres Alot of folk that didn't give a shit about it a few weeks ago shouting very loud and whenever the next good cause comes along they will soon forget about BLM to smugly champion the next moral crusade. 

 

 

 

Most black people in my opinion also do not support it.  For anyone that will challenge me on this then I advise that simple you tube searches will satisfy your doubt.

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GlasgoJambo
2 hours ago, jambo_74 said:

I honestly would love to know how you have come to the conclusion that the BLM movement is about bringing down capitalism, family structure and the police. What has led you to this statement of FACT as you put it? I hate to suggest this, but it sounds like you suffer from a level of intolerance to difference.

 

Black Lives Matter the organisation is built on a Marxist ideology, (the merits of which are a different conversation - right Boris :thumbsup:). The founders beliefs are routed in intersectional feminism and queer activism, and in their own words they are trained Marxists.

 

"We spent the year reading, anything from Marx, to Lenin, to Mao, learning all types of global critical theory and about different campaigns across the world"

https://www.dazeddigital.com/politics/article/39587/1/black-lives-matter-founder-interview-patrisse-khan-cullors?amp=1&__twitter_impression=true

 

 

"The first thing, I think, is that we actually do have an ideological frame. Myself and Alicia in particular are trained organizers. We are trained Marxists."

 

Patrisse Cullors, co-founder of BLM

 

https://therealnews.com/stories/pcullors0722blacklives

 

Another founder of BLM, Alicia Garza, is co-author of a paper called How We Get Free: Black Feminism and the Combaher River Collective. The paper explains how Marx lays out the framework but it must be understood through an intersectional lens that recognises “the specific economic situation of black women”. The police are viewed as the visible arm of state oppression and the aim is to take on the dismantling of the state as a whole.

”...the liberation of all oppressed peoples necessitates the destruction of the political economic systems of capitalism and imperialism as well as patriarchy”

 

https://americanstudies.yale.edu/sites/default/files/files/Keyword Coalition_Readings.pdf

 

And from the about page page on BLM website 

 

“We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

We foster a queer‐affirming network. When we gather, we do so with the intention of freeing ourselves from the tight grip of heteronormative thinking, or rather, the belief that all in the world are heterosexual (unless s/he or they disclose otherwise).“

 

“We are self-reflexive and do the work required to dismantle cisgender privilege and uplift Black trans folk, especially Black trans women who continue to be disproportionately impacted by trans-antagonistic violence”

 

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/

 

 

This is not to take away from the ground swell of support for the words “Black lives matter” which in the most part is a sincere, but could be argued misplaced, show of solidarity about injustice, both perceived and real, in the US (which has a specific and contextually relevant cultural racial history).

 

 

 

 

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Seymour M Hersh
1 hour ago, jambo_74 said:

You are confusing disbanding with defunding. Defunding the police does not mean getting rid of them, it means moving funds from certain areas of policing towards community projects designed to limit the need for police involvement. With your tree hugger comment, you've outed yourself as a rather intolerant person.

 

This is from UKBLM's go fund me page which seems to be the biggest (already had £1m in donations). They don't appear to be hiding their motives here. 

 

Who we are.


Black Lives Matter UK (BLMUK) is a coalition of black activists and organisers across the UK. We’ve been organising since 2016 for justice in our communities. 


We’re guided by a commitment to dismantle imperialism, capitalism, white-supremacy, patriarchy and the state structures that disproportionately harm black people in Britain and around the world. We build deep relationships across the diaspora and strategise to challenge the rise of the authoritarian right-wing across the world, from Brazil to Britain.


We’re developing new and exciting ways of organising that centre transparency, accountability, safety and healing for our organisers and our communities. BLMUK organises in the black radical tradition, using political education, direct action and political leadership toward black liberation. 


Our commitment to all black lives means that we lift up the experiences of the most marginalised in our communities, including but not limited to working class queer, trans, undocumented, disabled, Muslim, sex workers, women/non-binary, HIV+ people.

Nothing can be done without resource in the climate we live in. These donations are to support UKBLM’s work with black communities across the UK. This is an evolving fund to support black life against institutional racism and enable radical reminaging/knowledge production from within our communities.

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jambo_74
7 minutes ago, GlasgoJambo said:

 

Black Lives Matter the organisation is built on a Marxist ideology, (the merits of which are a different conversation - right Boris :thumbsup:). The founders beliefs are routed in intersectional feminism and queer activism, and in their own words they are trained Marxists.

 

This is not to take away from the ground swell of support for the words “Black lives matter” which in the most part is a sincere, but could be argued misplaced, show of solidarity about injustice, both perceived and real, in the US (which has a specific and contextually relevant cultural racial history).

 

I've not quoted everything because it's going to end up being a page long. I stand corrected on the  bringing down of capitalism as an ideological challenge for the BLM movement. However, I would guard against suggesting that bringing down capitalism is the goal. Rather ,I would suggest that it is a side effect of implementing a fairer more just society through a socialist movement.  It's not about promoting anarchy, its about increasing fairness and removing injustice.

 

The notion of destroying family values is another misinterpretation of their agenda, it isn't about pulling family apart, its about extending family into the community. This isn't some radical new concept, it was a way of life for small communities across these very shores not so long ago. We have become an I, me , mine society which fosters division and forgets about the needs of the many, only to ensure the gain of the few. 

 

Finally, the police state is different from the police force, when the internal workings of an institution become broken, it is very difficult to improve the practices within. Changing the funding models to ensure more community policing, where by community groups get to know the men and women paid to serve and protect them, would go along way to alleviate the tensions which rise out of the hate and distrust caused by the incidents playing out regularly just now.

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Enzo Chiefo
33 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Most black people in my opinion also do not support it.  For anyone that will challenge me on this then I advise that simple you tube searches will satisfy your doubt.

Some black commentators and writers have suffered, in the Twitter cesspit of course ,- where else- , a campaign of abuse and hate for daring to speak out about BLM and the fact they are a front for the usual left wing agitators and professional protesters that want to overthrow capitalism , imperialism etc etc. Britain is one of the most tolerant, inclusive countries in the entire world. We are now, however, in indulging those who want to rip up our history and heritage, at risk of becoming a laughing stock. Changing history to fit your wee, narrow view of modern life and standards,  is the act of an imbecile.

 

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jambo_74
11 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

This is from UKBLM's go fund me page which seems to be the biggest (already had £1m in donations). They don't appear to be hiding their motives here. 

 

Who we are.


Black Lives Matter UK (BLMUK) is a coalition of black activists and organisers across the UK. We’ve been organising since 2016 for justice in our communities. 


We’re guided by a commitment to dismantle imperialism, capitalism, white-supremacy, patriarchy and the state structures that disproportionately harm black people in Britain and around the world. We build deep relationships across the diaspora and strategise to challenge the rise of the authoritarian right-wing across the world, from Brazil to Britain.


We’re developing new and exciting ways of organising that centre transparency, accountability, safety and healing for our organisers and our communities. BLMUK organises in the black radical tradition, using political education, direct action and political leadership toward black liberation. 


Our commitment to all black lives means that we lift up the experiences of the most marginalised in our communities, including but not limited to working class queer, trans, undocumented, disabled, Muslim, sex workers, women/non-binary, HIV+ people.

Nothing can be done without resource in the climate we live in. These donations are to support UKBLM’s work with black communities across the UK. This is an evolving fund to support black life against institutional racism and enable radical reminaging/knowledge production from within our communities.

Sorry for that, I hadn't realised it was an objective, as such ,of the BLM movement. However, dismantling the current system would mean moving towards a fairer, more just, socialist society and from that point of view I completely understand why this would be an aim of BLM.  As I mentioned in a previous post above, the fall of capitalism would be a side effect of the implementation of a new ideological framework based on the works of Marx. It  isn't going to bring about anarchy, in fact, entirely the opposite outcome would be the expectation.

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Pasquale for King
37 minutes ago, GlasgoJambo said:

 

Black Lives Matter the organisation is built on a Marxist ideology, (the merits of which are a different conversation - right Boris :thumbsup:). The founders beliefs are routed in intersectional feminism and queer activism, and in their own words they are trained Marxists.

 

"We spent the year reading, anything from Marx, to Lenin, to Mao, learning all types of global critical theory and about different campaigns across the world"

https://www.dazeddigital.com/politics/article/39587/1/black-lives-matter-founder-interview-patrisse-khan-cullors?amp=1&__twitter_impression=true

 

 

"The first thing, I think, is that we actually do have an ideological frame. Myself and Alicia in particular are trained organizers. We are trained Marxists."

 

Patrisse Cullors, co-founder of BLM

 

https://therealnews.com/stories/pcullors0722blacklives

 

Another founder of BLM, Alicia Garza, is co-author of a paper called How We Get Free: Black Feminism and the Combaher River Collective. The paper explains how Marx lays out the framework but it must be understood through an intersectional lens that recognises “the specific economic situation of black women”. The police are viewed as the visible arm of state oppression and the aim is to take on the dismantling of the state as a whole.

”...the liberation of all oppressed peoples necessitates the destruction of the political economic systems of capitalism and imperialism as well as patriarchy”

 

https://americanstudies.yale.edu/sites/default/files/files/Keyword Coalition_Readings.pdf

 

And from the about page page on BLM website 

 

“We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

We foster a queer‐affirming network. When we gather, we do so with the intention of freeing ourselves from the tight grip of heteronormative thinking, or rather, the belief that all in the world are heterosexual (unless s/he or they disclose otherwise).“

 

“We are self-reflexive and do the work required to dismantle cisgender privilege and uplift Black trans folk, especially Black trans women who continue to be disproportionately impacted by trans-antagonistic violence”

 

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/

 

 

This is not to take away from the ground swell of support for the words “Black lives matter” which in the most part is a sincere, but could be argued misplaced, show of solidarity about injustice, both perceived and real, in the US (which has a specific and contextually relevant cultural racial history).

 

 

 

 

Great post, I met Alicia in Glasgow at the Rise launch a few years back, she gave a rousing speech and got a standing ovation from around 400 folk,  apart from the current leader of the Scottish Socialist party. 
The movement they started has moved on and represents so much more now as it has grown. 
Marx theory is that capitalism will burn itself out, is this what we’re seeing all around the world? I hope so. 
 

 

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Pasquale for King
5 minutes ago, jambo_74 said:

Sorry for that, I hadn't realised it was an objective, as such ,of the BLM movement. However, dismantling the current system would mean moving towards a fairer, more just, socialist society and from that point of view I completely understand why this would be an aim of BLM.  As I mentioned in a previous post above, the fall of capitalism would be a side effect of the implementation of a new ideological framework based on the works of Marx. It  isn't going to bring about anarchy, in fact, entirely the opposite outcome would be the expectation.

Well said.

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jambo_74
4 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Well said.

Cheers, I will now digress slightly, but in my humble opinion it all comes down to this really. Capitalism works for a select few in society to the detriment of the masses. It pushes people towards greed, intolerance and hatred,  it breeds division and distrust. It motivates human beings to hate each other on the basis of colour, creed, language, accent etc....If there were awards for ideologies performing to their remits, it would win them all, as it has served its cruel and senseless purpose admirably. Don't listen to people who suggest there is no other way, or that it wouldn't be fair. Capitalism isn't fair, and before anyone suggests I have something to gain from this statement, some vested interest, I do, equality for everyone. There are enough resources in the world for everyone to benefit from, education could be free to all and by that token intolerance and hatred could be eradicated freeing society to ease the pain and suffering of so many.  The greatest trick capitalist's pulled was convincing the masses that socialism was bad. My word it's time for that to change.

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GlasgoJambo
46 minutes ago, jambo_74 said:

 

I've not quoted everything because it's going to end up being a page long. I stand corrected on the  bringing down of capitalism as an ideological challenge for the BLM movement. However, I would guard against suggesting that bringing down capitalism is the goal. Rather ,I would suggest that it is a side effect of implementing a fairer more just society through a socialist movement.  It's not about promoting anarchy, its about increasing fairness and removing injustice.

 

The notion of destroying family values is another misinterpretation of their agenda, it isn't about pulling family apart, its about extending family into the community. This isn't some radical new concept, it was a way of life for small communities across these very shores not so long ago. We have become an I, me , mine society which fosters division and forgets about the needs of the many, only to ensure the gain of the few. 

 

Finally, the police state is different from the police force, when the internal workings of an institution become broken, it is very difficult to improve the practices within. Changing the funding models to ensure more community policing, where by community groups get to know the men and women paid to serve and protect them, would go along way to alleviate the tensions which rise out of the hate and distrust caused by the incidents playing out regularly just now.

 

Fair points and civilly put.  

I think you have a more sympathetic (and optimistic?) take than I do. 

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Pasquale for King
7 minutes ago, jambo_74 said:

Cheers, I will now digress slightly, but in my humble opinion it all comes down to this really. Capitalism works for a select few in society to the detriment of the masses. It pushes people towards greed, intolerance and hatred,  it breeds division and distrust. It motivates human beings to hate each other on the basis of colour, creed, language, accent etc....If there were awards for ideologies performing to their remits, it would win them all, as it has served its cruel and senseless purpose admirably. Don't listen to people who suggest there is no other way, or that it wouldn't be fair. Capitalism isn't fair, and before anyone suggests I have something to gain from this statement, some vested interest, I do, equality for everyone. There are enough resources in the world for everyone to benefit from, education could be free to all and by that token intolerance and hatred could be eradicated freeing society to ease the pain and suffering of so many.  The greatest trick capitalist's pulled was convincing the masses that socialism was bad. My word it's time for that to change.

Won’t disagree with any of that, socialism ended WWI and has been hated since. It’s ok for the NFL, for the banks, for nearly every country through furlough schemes, for BJ so he can promise the earth etc etc. Where would be without the NHS, I prefer Labours early work compared to maybe Wilson onwards. Education has always been the key.

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GlasgoJambo
36 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Great post, I met Alicia in Glasgow at the Rise launch a few years back, she gave a rousing speech and got a standing ovation from around 400 folk,  apart from the current leader of the Scottish Socialist party. 
The movement they started has moved on and represents so much more now as it has grown.
Marx theory is that capitalism will burn itself out, is this what we’re seeing all around the world? I hope so. 
 

 

 

Agree that it has grown to represent more and I’m sympathetic to that interpretation. 

Not sure this is a reaction to capitalism as I think there was a culmination of important cultural and socio-economic events that led to the US protests which have their basis in the African American experience in the US and topped off with a bit of worldwide pandemic.

(we’ll be here all week/month if we get into this won’t we 😭)

 

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Pasquale for King

I’m still wondering why Burnley have only one Black player in a squad of over 30 and how diverse the place is in general. 

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jambo_74
7 minutes ago, GlasgoJambo said:

 

Fair points and civilly put.  

I think you have a more sympathetic (and optimistic?) take than I do. 

I thank you, and I probably am an optimistic idealist. I grew up in a very socialist family, my Great Granny was a suffragette and an activist for a socialist workers party in the 1920's, that ahem, should not be mentioned by name anymore.

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Pasquale for King
Just now, GlasgoJambo said:

 

Agree that it has grown to represent more and I’m sympathetic to that interpretation. 

Not sure this is a reaction to capitalism as I think there was a culmination of important cultural and socio-economic events that led to the US protests which have their basis in the African American experience in the US and topped off with a bit of worldwide pandemic.

(we’ll be here all week/month if we get into this won’t we 😭)

 

Maybe Americans see it as such because it’s what they’re whole country is based on, the oppression of the poor is the same everywhere for me. The pandemic is part of the frustration and outpouring of emotion, but it’s also helping as folk who agree have time to do more on social media etc and even go to protests. 

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jambo_74
11 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Won’t disagree with any of that, socialism ended WWI and has been hated since. It’s ok for the NFL, for the banks, for nearly every country through furlough schemes, for BJ so he can promise the earth etc etc. Where would be without the NHS, I prefer Labours early work compared to maybe Wilson onwards. Education has always been the key.

We would be exactly where the capitalists want us, in hock to the insurance companies for the simplest of medical requirements. I agree that Wilson and subsequent Labour governments diluted the early socialism on which they were built, culminating in the centrist policies of Blair and Brown. Education is imperative, but the narrative is also key. I always equate it to good investigative Journalism, deliberate, corroborate and then disseminate.

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Pasquale for King
13 minutes ago, jambo_74 said:

We would be exactly where the capitalists want us, in hock to the insurance companies for the simplest of medical requirements. I agree that Wilson and subsequent Labour governments diluted the early socialism on which they were built, culminating in the centrist policies of Blair and Brown. Education is imperative, but the narrative is also key. I always equate it to good investigative Journalism, deliberate, corroborate and then disseminate.

Good journalism is rare these days unfortunately. I’ve only come across this guy in the last week but he combines the two well and is absolutely spot on with everything I’ve heard him say.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/08/edward-colston-statue-history-slave-trader-bristol-protest

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jambo_74
12 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Good journalism is rare these days unfortunately. I’ve only come across this guy in the last week but he combines the two well and is absolutely spot on with everything I’ve heard him say.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/08/edward-colston-statue-history-slave-trader-bristol-protest

The problem with journalism in the modern era is that more is better. Content is king and filling websites and social media channels with headlines, snippets and reworded press releases has taken away from the methodical, difficult and sometimes dangerous art of investigative journalism, which should really be just journalism. Good article by the way 👍

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Taffin

For those arguing about football players and clubs supporting BLM not changing folk, they're probably right, but it doesn't make it pointless. Fortunately kids look up to footballers (rightly or wrongly) and I sincerely hope that they'll take this message on board and in time the knuckle draggers who can't/won't change will die out and be replaced by a new generation.

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Ron Burgundy
51 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I’m still wondering why Burnley have only one Black player in a squad of over 30 and how diverse the place is in general. 

Clearly the owner and all the staff are racists and the place must be like 1920's Alabama.

 

It's the only logical explanation.

 

I'm still wondering why the Harlem Globetrotters didn't have more white or Asian players.

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Pasquale for King
14 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Clearly the owner and all the staff are racists and the place must be like 1920's Alabama.

 

It's the only logical explanation.

 

I'm still wondering why the Harlem Globetrotters didn't have more white or Asian players.

Good answer.
Nothing to with why a team has little or no minorities in 2020, and whether it’s an extension of the community as a whole in the light of an racist incident. Burnley has a 12% minority population, about average for the U.K. as a whole, yet only one black player and two of mixed race. A coincidence or a specific policy by a manager that continually moans about divers and cheats, usually foreign players. Is the signing policy because of this? 

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Pasquale for King
25 minutes ago, Taffin said:

For those arguing about football players and clubs supporting BLM not changing folk, they're probably right, but it doesn't make it pointless. Fortunately kids look up to footballers (rightly or wrongly) and I sincerely hope that they'll take this message on board and in time the knuckle draggers who can't/won't change will die out and be replaced by a new generation.

You’ve got to hope so, as generations go youngsters are less and less racist as multiculturalism becomes more normal. The promised land where we play football is one such place and is one of its biggest plus points.

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