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jack D and coke
6 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

He was unarmed when 11 police officers arrived and 3 managed to handcuff him and control him.

I’ll be honest I’m not that clued up with the case. I’ve only seen and heard bits. 
This isn’t the Deep South of the states though I’m not having the police intentionally murdered him, that doesn’t happen here imo. In comparison to other forces we generally have a softly softly approach in this country as opposed to others even in Europe. 
It sounds like a bit of a tragic case. 
 

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Ribble
28 minutes ago, JimKongUno said:

 

Those 3 dudes that were murdered in broad day light in reading were not black. 


Were they killed by people paid to protect them?

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Thought Police
8 hours ago, braveheart said:

Have you not got a statue to go and vandalize and gies all peace.has anyone given a minutes thought about yesterday's atrocity?

You seem like an angry man who lost his job to a more talented migrant. 

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7628mm

We have now reached page 4 of what is (in my opinion) ostensibly a flag debate which the last time I looked at the forum rules is a banned subject.

I am not in any way saying that this debate should not discussed but perhaps it should be in the shed as it is not really what the terrace is for.

 

 

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Dallas Green
8 hours ago, vladisacoward said:

No, there isn’t. Or at least, not proportionally more than there is against poor white kids from every impoverished housing estate all across Scotland.

 

Scotland is a much more tolerant place than it was than when I was a kid. However, there are still a bunch of knuckle dragging morons who will racially abuse and assault people who have a darker skin colour than themselves. White kids arent picked on for the colour of their skin. Black and Asian kids are. That's racism.

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Dallas Green
8 hours ago, Stendelsarmy said:

Ok let me rephrase. There's no systemic racism against black people by Police Scotland. I'm sure a tiny minority of black people have been unfortunate enough to be subjected to police brutality in Scotland as have a tiny minority of white people.

 

Of course white people have been subject to police brutality. The issue is that people who are not white are at a higher risk of it.

 

If a black dude is waiting outside a building by himself he is much more likely to be accosted by the police than a white dude. It happens in Scotland. It is systemic racism.

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John Findlay
1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

Is the taking a knee and wearing BLM instead of their names on the back of the shirt for the entire rest of the season? I thought it might be for the first round of games but this was City's second game.

I believe it will be for the remainder of the season.

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Sarah O

Willing to place a bet that  the Scottish White Lives/All Matter brigade are the same people who also delight in; 

 

Hating Catholics so much they sing they are up to their knees in Catholic blood.

 

Screaming about asylum seekers not having the right to come to Britain as their lifeless corpses wash ashore. 

 

I'll also put a side bet on they love waving UJ's about and voted for Brexit. 

 

.

 

Not a redeeming quality to be found. 

 

 

 

 

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rory78
11 minutes ago, Dallas Green said:

 

Scotland is a much more tolerant place than it was than when I was a kid. However, there are still a bunch of knuckle dragging morons who will racially abuse and assault people who have a darker skin colour than themselves. White kids arent picked on for the colour of their skin. Black and Asian kids are. That's racism.

Incorrect - ask the people of Rotherham Rochdale Oldham etc etc if white girls are picked on and targeted i think they'll say yes

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jockmac
6 minutes ago, Dallas Green said:

 

Scotland is a much more tolerant place than it was than when I was a kid. However, there are still a bunch of knuckle dragging morons who will racially abuse and assault people who have a darker skin colour than themselves. White kids arent picked on for the colour of their skin. Black and Asian kids are. That's racism.

Wow. White kids, predominantly girls, have been systematically targeted for rape and abuse by Asian men, up and down the length and breadth of the UK.

 

It’s done precisely because they are WHITE. These men look upon these girls as trash. 
 

Massive cover up by the state, the police and social workers to sweep under the carpet.

 

Thats Racism.

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Deso1972
10 hours ago, cliffdanum said:

Do only black lives matter then..nobody else..

No,

 if that was the case then it would say "Only Black Lives Matter", a point which is usualy pounced upon by people who dont understand the point of the movement.. This is normally followed up by saying it should be "All Lives Matter" which is, as a moral,  universally accepted but doesnt quite get the point across that for hundreds of years black lives didnt quite matter as much as white - not my opinion just historically correct. 

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rory78
5 minutes ago, jockmac said:

Wow. White kids, predominantly girls, have been systematically targeted for rape and abuse by Asian men, up and down the length and breadth of the UK.

 

It’s done precisely because they are WHITE. These men look upon these girls as trash. 
 

Massive cover up by the state, the police and social workers to sweep under the carpet.

 

Thats Racism.

Spot on but some folk are happy to ignore that fact - Stephen Lawrence is remembered every year because of what happened but we're just to forget about Kriss Donald and Lee Rigby as it might incite racial tensions 🙄

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GlasgoJambo
15 minutes ago, Dallas Green said:

 

Of course white people have been subject to police brutality. The issue is that people who are not white are at a higher risk of it.

 

If a black dude is waiting outside a building by himself he is much more likely to be accosted by the police than a white dude. It happens in Scotland. It is systemic racism.

 

Is it systemic misandry that it happens to males disproportionally?    

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jack D and coke
Just now, Dallas Green said:

Scotland is a much more tolerant place than it was than when I was a kid. However, there are still a bunch of knuckle dragging morons who will racially abuse and assault people who have a darker skin colour than themselves. White kids arent picked on for the colour of their skin. Black and Asian kids are. That's racism.

That’s a pretty broad generalisation. There is evidence of that happening here incidentally. Worse than bullying too, there’s been incidents of grooming gang cases through the west. 
Im not wanting to get into one of these but these things happen everywhere because of peoples colour and it’s wrong. People also get bullied for all kinds of reasons and again that’s wrong. Scottish kids who go to live in England get bullied because of their accent. I know because my cousins did. Fat kids, poor kids, ginger kids get bullied, all wrong. This is where my problem with these things come from. People all jump on a bandwagon when they’ve likely never seen or heard a racist thing in their life. 
My kid, my niece and nephews etc all have fiends from different backgrounds and aren’t racist at all. Scotland like anywhere has them, of course we do but it doesn’t seem as bad as I seen in England where I spent about 10-12 years working all over. It was always getting dropped into conversations down there. Maybe it’s purely because they are so much more black and asian people down there I don’t know but it was so much more than I’m used to hearing at home.

Im trying to think if I’ve ever actually seen a racist incident in my life though tbh. I’m not saying it doesn’t exist but I honestly can’t think of a single one that I seen in front of me other than the Mark Walters incident at Tynecastle. 
Ive been around too and the biggest hate problems I ever came across was when I worked in Ireland. A lot of them are very hostile to the English. It’s always Scotland that gets that honour too but I’ve never seen it like the Irish to them. 

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jack D and coke
5 minutes ago, rory78 said:

Spot on but some folk are happy to ignore that fact - Stephen Lawrence is remembered every year because of what happened but we're just to forget about Kriss Donald and Lee Rigby as it might incite racial tensions 🙄

I don’t recall any racial murder in Scotland as savage as Kris Donald’s. Murdered purely because he was white.

What they done to that boy was horrific. A 15 year old kid ffs. 
I’ve definitely heard this black guy’s story in fife come up more often than Kris Donald’s when race killing is mentioned up here. 
People basically insunating 11 racist Fife police officers turned up and murdered the guy.
I’m just not wearing that tbh. 

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jambo_74
9 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Therein lies the problem, TP.  "Picking a side" suggests that there is a war on. Britain is one of the most tolerant countries in the world. Do you genuinely think lots of  people in this country don't believe that BLM?? Again, 3 white males were murdered on Saturday, so if it's a reminder to "society" that tragedies affect all creeds and colours then tonights banner will have served a purpose. 

I think you are missing the point though. It's not a war, it is an attempt to educate people on the edge of racism to better understand that there is only one race , the human one. Skin tone has been determined over centuries, simply by melanin production in the human body, which is dependant on the proximity of the  specific group to the equator. The greater the distance from the equator, the  lighter the skin tone.  

 

Don't get me wrong, there are idiots who will attach themselves to well meaning causes and cause disruption and mayhem, but that is not down to their colour or creed.  It's far more to do with their upbringing, their social circumstances, the damage done to them by the society they live in, the path not taken, the choices not provided.

 

A despicable act, like the one perpetrated in Reading is not due to systemic racial prejudice. The murder of three innocent members of the public should be seen as a criminal act  (terrorist?) and not a reason to stamp on a movement attempting to readdress a social imbalance which has been going on for centuries.

 

Black lives matter, not more or less, they just matter. Whilst it is a nice sentiment to suggest that all lives matter, and they should, the fact is in this society, they don't. At least certainly not equally. Until we readdress the imbalance, through a thorough dismantling and rebuilding of the history we teach within the education system, we will forever be in the grip of this terrible affliction.

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MR INCREDIBLE
10 hours ago, Thought Police said:

Minority? I think society has picked a side and knuckle draggers who live in the dark ages will be left behind.

 

I just don’t understand why people would choose to undermine a movement for their own insecurities. Everybody knows all lives matter ffs! BLM is about reminding racists that they matter just as much as white folk.

BLM is about destroying capitalism, family structure and defunding the police but for some reason all the sheep that have followed this nonsense don't mention these FACTS. 

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HighTimes

I'm taking the charitable view that everyone on here giving it 'All lives matter' are just really, really thick or closet hobos.  Surely there's no actual racist ***** in our support?

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Deso1972
4 minutes ago, MR INCREDIBLE said:

BLM is about destroying capitalism, family structure and defunding the police but for some reason all the sheep that have followed this nonsense don't mention these FACTS. 

 Wow.. show us on the doll where they touched you inappropriately..

 

In all seriousness, can you show us the proof of this? after all, you claim them to be facts, so you must have proof yes?..

 

 

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colinmaroon
10 hours ago, cliffdanum said:

Do only black lives matter then..nobody else..

 

The point of the campaign is relevant because it seems, to many, black lives don't matter as much as white lives.

 

And we do live on a culture where free speech is sacrocant, don't we?IMG-20200616-WA0000.thumb.jpg.c6ed574d4c9916d52a76879f2787cdb6.jpg

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TheBigO
10 hours ago, Thought Police said:

Aw here we go.

 

You truly are deranged if you think the Black Lives Matter movement is in any way suggesting no other lives matter.

 

”Give to cancer research!”

 

”Why, does aids not matter?”

 

”Well, of course it does, but right now we’re focusing on cancer.”

 

How insecure are you that you need to tell someone whites lives matter when black people have been systematically oppressed for 400 years.

 

I pity you and your children, if you’ve even been near a woman.

He he he. Magical response fella

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Dallas Green
Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

That’s a pretty broad generalisation. There is evidence of that happening here incidentally. Worse than bullying too, there’s been incidents of grooming gang cases through the west. 
Im not wanting to get into one of these but these things happen everywhere because of peoples colour and it’s wrong. People also get bullied for all kinds of reasons and again that’s wrong. Scottish kids who go to live in England get bullied because of their accent. I know because my cousins did. Fat kids, poor kids, ginger kids get bullied, all wrong. This is where my problem with these things come from. People all jump on a bandwagon when they’ve likely never seen or heard a racist thing in their life. 
My kid, my niece and nephews etc all have fiends from different backgrounds and aren’t racist at all. Scotland like anywhere has them, of course we do but it doesn’t seem as bad as I seen in England where I spent about 10-12 years working all over. It was always getting dropped into conversations down there. Maybe it’s purely because they are so much more black and asian people down there I don’t know but it was so much more than I’m used to hearing at home.

Im trying to think if I’ve ever actually seen a racist incident in my life though tbh. I’m not saying it doesn’t exist but I honestly can’t think of a single one that I seen in front of me other than the Mark Walters incident at Tynecastle. 
Ive been around too and the biggest hate problems I ever came across was when I worked in Ireland. A lot of them are very hostile to the English. It’s always Scotland that gets that honour too but I’ve never seen it like the Irish to them. 

 

Scotland is a much more tolerant place than England, in my experience. I have also been on the end of abuse when I have worked down there. I also know the abuse goes both ways across the border though.

 

I'm not denying that bullying takes place for all these other things either. It does. Being white, in a scottish school, is not the thing going to get you bullied or picked on though. Which was my point to the issue raised of poor white kids from impoverished council estate areas.

 

Racism does exist in scotland though. I've seen and heard it multiple times. With my job I am in and out of multiple different workplaces, all over Scotland, it is a bigger issue than people realise. Some of the issues come via jokes. They think they arent racist because they frame their racism into a joke. It is still racist.

 

Edited by Dallas Green

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Deso1972

This picture sums it all up for me, much more succinct than I can put into words on here..

Black-Lives-Matter3.jpg

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luckydug

I'd rather this subject was in the shed. 

However my tuppence worth. 

I support the Black Lives Matter ideals but I feel the message itself the way its read is giving folk with a racist agenda an excuse to turn the message on its head. 

I prefer the old fashioned Scots term which is ' we're aw Jock Tamsons bairns'. 

We are all equal in the eyes of our creator. 

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jambo_74
4 minutes ago, MR INCREDIBLE said:

BLM is about destroying capitalism, family structure and defunding the police but for some reason all the sheep that have followed this nonsense don't mention these FACTS. 

I honestly would love to know how you have come to the conclusion that the BLM movement is about bringing down capitalism, family structure and the police. What has led you to this statement of FACT as you put it? I hate to suggest this, but it sounds like you suffer from a level of intolerance to difference.

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complete control
10 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

why all this blm  at a football game in the first place? 

I know this is on the back of the stabbings in Reading.  3 white folk got stabbed to death. 

 

Football is more and more being used as a political vessel  to get points across. 

That pisses me off tbh. 

 

I don't want SNP shite, Catholic shite, black shite, white shite or loyalist shite at a football game tbh. 

 

Racism and imo other hatred is a growing issue again acriss the globe, but is the recent black lives matter movement effective at all  in any way? 

 

For most normal folk, they already knew black lives matters, they know all lives matters. 

 

A small group of far right groups, organisations and individuals don't think like this, but this campaign won't change that. 

 

What is the goal of marching and protesting for black life's matters, the folk that already think like that don't need to change and the groups that are the issue, this sort of thing doesn't touch the sides with them. 

 

If anything I think this movement and the way it's taken over everything is agitating many folk in the middle ground and doing more harm to he wider anti racist and hatred movement in general.

 

I didn't like the blm slogan, but to compare it and use it to white lives matters is showing an ignorance of history beyond belief. 

 

The world is ****ed atm tbh. 

 

 

 

 

 

good post

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7628mm
2 minutes ago, luckydug said:

I'd rather this subject was in the shed. 

However my tuppence worth. 

I support the Black Lives Matter ideals but I feel the message itself the way its read is giving folk with a racist agenda an excuse to turn the message on its head. 

I prefer the old fashioned Scots term which is ' we're aw Jock Tamsons bairns'. 

We are all equal in the eyes of our creator. 

 

I would post a picture of a couple of flags, one white and one black but that is against JKB rules.

 

We live in truly bizarre times.

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TheOak88
2 hours ago, Boris said:

See the poor sods killed in Reading, were they killed by law enforcement officers?

 

Mate just call them Police Officers. This is Reading not California. 

 

 

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ToadKiller Dog
Posted (edited)

I see the the guy is proud of his stunt and at making a moron of himself in public ,Jake Heppie using the defence line "so its racist now to say white lives matter is it ".

Another who likes to get a photo with the cokeheaded midget Mussolini Tommy two or three names Yaxley lemon .

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/burnley-fan-claims-responsibility-white-22236653

Edited by ToadKiller Dog

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Steve_Jersey_HMFC
4 minutes ago, Deso1972 said:

This picture sums it all up for me, much more succinct than I can put into words on here..

Black-Lives-Matter3.jpg

 

Yep, "Black Lives Matter" is the catchy succinct short phrase to use because " Black Lives are not being treated like they matter and they should be treated like they matter, particularly when black people have been unnecessarily killed by law enforcement in the USA and no consequences have followed; of course all lives matter including white, black, brown etc, but we are trying to promote black lives being treated more equally" doesn't have the same ring to it

 

People responding with the "Yeah but White Lives matter don't they?!" are using an argument as sophisticated as those who say we "deserve" to be in the Championship "because Hearts were pish last year and only won 4 games out of 30"

 

For those citing the horrible incident in Reading at the weekend, the man responsible has been arrested and will face consequences for his actions so its completely irrelevant to the BLM stuff (same for those bringing up Lee Rigby FFS). The whole point of BLM starting was against police brutality, or alleged police brutality against black people in US, and law enforcement getting away with it because of their uniform (appreciate that the movement has grown to cover other areas such as discrimination in life generally, and rather curiously has turned into a statue debate in the UK). If the Reading killer was released tomorrow and nothing happened to him, and it was part of a systematic pattern of persons murdering white persons not facing justice then that might justify a "white lives matter" debate, but otherwise those who bring up Reading or Lee Rigby are missing the point quite spectacularly.

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7628mm

May I be the 1st to thank the mods for sending this thread into the shed.

I found the post below on another thread in the terrace and thought it was appropriate here. I apologise to the poster below if he has not posted on this actual thread. 

 

59 minutes ago, Newton51 said:

 

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TheOak88
55 minutes ago, Dallas Green said:

 

 

If a black dude is waiting outside a building by himself he is much more likely to be accosted by the police than a white dude. It happens in Scotland. It is systemic racism.

 

Out of interest why do you think that is the case?

 

I do not see the above example as necessarily systemic racism. In that example it would be a decision taken by individual Police Officers whether to accost a black dude. As such, surely that means it is the individual Police Officer that is racist rather than the system in which they operate. Unless they are being actively told by higher authority in the Police Force to target black people?

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Bull's-eye
11 minutes ago, TheOak88 said:

 

Out of interest why do you think that is the case?

 

I do not see the above example as necessarily systemic racism. In that example it would be a decision taken by individual Police Officers whether to accost a black dude. As such, surely that means it is the individual Police Officer that is racist rather than the system in which they operate. Unless they are being actively told by higher authority in the Police Force to target black people?

 

Or the Hammer and Screwdiver in the Black dudes pocket no?

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Scotland

Might as well just merge this thread with the "some of our fans are idiots" thread at this point.

 

:cornette:

 

Staggering.

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XB52
47 minutes ago, jambo_74 said:

I think you are missing the point though. It's not a war, it is an attempt to educate people on the edge of racism to better understand that there is only one race , the human one. Skin tone has been determined over centuries, simply by melanin production in the human body, which is dependant on the proximity of the  specific group to the equator. The greater the distance from the equator, the  lighter the skin tone.  

 

Don't get me wrong, there are idiots who will attach themselves to well meaning causes and cause disruption and mayhem, but that is not down to their colour or creed.  It's far more to do with their upbringing, their social circumstances, the damage done to them by the society they live in, the path not taken, the choices not provided.

 

A despicable act, like the one perpetrated in Reading is not due to systemic racial prejudice. The murder of three innocent members of the public should be seen as a criminal act  (terrorist?) and not a reason to stamp on a movement attempting to readdress a social imbalance which has been going on for centuries.

 

Black lives matter, not more or less, they just matter. Whilst it is a nice sentiment to suggest that all lives matter, and they should, the fact is in this society, they don't. At least certainly not equally. Until we readdress the imbalance, through a thorough dismantling and rebuilding of the history we teach within the education system, we will forever be in the grip of this terrible affliction.

said it much better than I could.

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JimKongUno
20 minutes ago, Steve_Jersey_HMFC said:

 

Yep, "Black Lives Matter" is the catchy succinct short phrase to use because " Black Lives are not being treated like they matter and they should be treated like they matter, particularly when black people have been unnecessarily killed by law enforcement in the USA and no consequences have followed; of course all lives matter including white, black, brown etc, but we are trying to promote black lives being treated more equally" doesn't have the same ring to it

 

People responding with the "Yeah but White Lives matter don't they?!" are using an argument as sophisticated as those who say we "deserve" to be in the Championship "because Hearts were pish last year and only won 4 games out of 30"

 

For those citing the horrible incident in Reading at the weekend, the man responsible has been arrested and will face consequences for his actions so its completely irrelevant to the BLM stuff (same for those bringing up Lee Rigby FFS). The whole point of BLM starting was against police brutality, or alleged police brutality against black people in US, and law enforcement getting away with it because of their uniform (appreciate that the movement has grown to cover other areas such as discrimination in life generally, and rather curiously has turned into a statue debate in the UK). If the Reading killer was released tomorrow and nothing happened to him, and it was part of a systematic pattern of persons murdering white persons not facing justice then that might justify a "white lives matter" debate, but otherwise those who bring up Reading or Lee Rigby are missing the point quite spectacularly.

 People are entitled to decide for themselves what matters to them. Some people might not give a **** about white lives, black lives or any other lives. Don't need some do gooder smug arseholes to tell me repeatedly what I should think 

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i8hibsh
11 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Love it.

 

 

Using a child to get across someone's (I assue a parent's) political view?

 

:fonzie:

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The White Cockade

We have some absolute weapons in our support 

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Redhelen
2 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

Is the taking a knee and wearing BLM instead of their names on the back of the shirt for the entire rest of the season? I thought it might be for the first round of games but this was City's second game.

I think till the end of the season 

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MR INCREDIBLE
51 minutes ago, jambo_74 said:

I honestly would love to know how you have come to the conclusion that the BLM movement is about bringing down capitalism, family structure and the police. What has led you to this statement of FACT as you put it? I hate to suggest this, but it sounds like you suffer from a level of intolerance to difference.

Took just 1 minute to find this from their website..... Should have a wee look and it might educate you and the rest of the treehuggers

Screenshot_20200623-102728.jpg

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MR INCREDIBLE
2 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

Is the taking a knee and wearing BLM instead of their names on the back of the shirt for the entire rest of the season? I thought it might be for the first round of games but this was City's second game.

This would not be happening if there was full stadiums as at least 80% of the crowds would see it as the left wing bullshit that it is. 

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jambo_74
2 minutes ago, MR INCREDIBLE said:

Took just 1 minute to find this from their website..... Should have a wee look and it might educate you and the rest of the treehuggers

Screenshot_20200623-102728.jpg

You are confusing disbanding with defunding. Defunding the police does not mean getting rid of them, it means moving funds from certain areas of policing towards community projects designed to limit the need for police involvement. With your tree hugger comment, you've outed yourself as a rather intolerant person.

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i8hibsh

What I object to is there are only 2 options when the left get their teeth into something.  Go along with it in support or be Adolf Hitler.

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moogsy
2 hours ago, Dallas Green said:

 

Of course white people have been subject to police brutality. The issue is that people who are not white are at a higher risk of it.

 

If a black dude is waiting outside a building by himself he is much more likely to be accosted by the police than a white dude. It happens in Scotland. It is systemic racism.


Absolute nonsense in my opinion. Police don’t tend to ‘accost’ anyone unless they have reasonable information to suggest they’re up to no good. 
 

Do you have any sources to back this up?

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Deso1972
Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, JimKongUno said:

 People are entitled to decide for themselves what matters to them. Some people might not give a **** about white lives, black lives or any other lives. Don't need some do gooder smug arseholes to tell me repeatedly what I should think 

This is true, you are entitled to your own thoughts and opinions, likewise us "do-gooder smug arseholes" are entitled to think you are a racist halfwit with a tiny penis.. its how the world works..

Edited by Deso1972

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Cade

The "defund the police" message does NOT mean "abolish the police".

It means "stop spending tens of millions on making the police into a paramilitary militia and spend that money on community based initiatives instead".

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i8hibsh
Just now, Cade said:

The "defund the police" message does NOT mean "abolish the police".

It means "stop spending tens of millions on making the police into a paramilitary militia and spend that money on community based initiatives instead".

 

 

No, it is pretty clear.

 

Defund them, have less on the streets and they can go about their merry way to create anarchy on our streets.

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moogsy
7 minutes ago, Cade said:

The "defund the police" message does NOT mean "abolish the police".

It means "stop spending tens of millions on making the police into a paramilitary militia and spend that money on community based initiatives instead".


So not really applicable to Scotland then? 

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Pasquale for King
9 hours ago, vladisacoward said:

Pipe doon laddie. You’re making a fool of yourself now. I don’t need to do it for you. Lies by the cops ?!!? 😂😂 Great stuff!

Don’t ever tell me what to do dummy. The PC that was pushed over has said she wasn’t stamped on. Three witnesses have said she wasn’t stamped on. Police officers said she was on stamped,lies. You can actually access a link, work google etc. 

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Pasquale for King
9 hours ago, vladisacoward said:

Hehe! Where’s your evidence? Erm, here it is. Night night he then says, tail firmly tucked between his legs as he scuttles off, back under his rock, badly defeated.

Hahahahaha you’re a delusional idiot 😂🤪

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