Black Lives Matter Protest.

[Nucky Thompson]

I see they have charged a little twat with criminal damage to Winston Churchill's statue

 

I would have him publicly flogged 

[Justin Z]

6 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

I see they have charged a little twat with criminal damage to Winston Churchill's statue

 

I would have him publicly flogged 

 

The suspect's addition to the plinth was very messy work, but on the basis of its accuracy I think he can be spared the cane and tawse.

[Nucky Thompson]

3 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

The suspect's addition to the plinth was very messy work, but on the basis of its accuracy I think he can be spared the cane and tawse.

The thing is, at 18 years old he might have fecked his future life chances by getting a criminal record.

 

I would wager he'll be a highly intelligent student type with an offer at Cambridge or Oxford

[Justin Z]

10 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

The thing is, at 18 years old he might have fecked his future life chances by getting a criminal record.

 

I would wager he'll be a highly intelligent student type with an offer at Cambridge or Oxford

 

Regardless of who he is, it's unfortunate that there may be consequences for him beyond paying a fine plus some restitution in the form of community work or whatever.

I went to try to learn more about the kid on Twitter as none of the articles seem to have much, and I was met with a bunch of Hail Brittanians calling for maximum sentence (10 years prison). Sensible. 🥴

[Sharpie]

Churchill is one of my heroes. I was indoctrinated to him at an early age listening to his powerful speeches and patriotism. I make no comment about the accused as I have not seen what he wrote, bit he is a man who united a Country when it needed it most, and I am like many others believe he was the leader for that particular time, and because of him this young person lives in a society where he can express his opinions. Of course Churchill need the brave men and women who fought  for his principles and policeis and those at home who worked to keep the battlers supplied.

Most unlike a current world leader who is nothing of what Churchill ever was, and Churchill was unlike a present leader who avoided war service on a hoax medical, and decries those who died that he and all of us may live.

[Seymour M Hersh]

On 09/09/2020 at 10:41, John Findlay said:

I will repeat ad nauseam. A country born from the firearm, and run by the firearm.

Anyone who tries,to do anything about it, they will be shot. Like many I am amazed Donald Trump is still alive. Still plenty time left for some crackpot or daft group to take him out though.

 

John if America was as catastrophically racist as some on here would have you believe (and make no mistake there are plenty of racists (ironically of all colours) in the USA) you must wonder how Obama survived. 

[Justin Z]

10 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

John if America was as catastrophically racist as some on here would have you believe (and make no mistake there are plenty of racists (ironically of all colours) in the USA) you must wonder how Obama survived. 

 

The events of the last four years, including the election of a man who openly and publicly flung and continues to fling hate at Obama because he's Black, and who in real estate rampantly discriminated based on race, have put in doubt whether the entire nation is going to survive. It may very well turn out to be literally catastrophically racist.

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 hour ago, Justin Z said:

 

The events of the last four years, including the election of a man who openly and publicly flung and continues to fling hate at Obama because he's Black, and who in real estate rampantly discriminated based on race, have put in doubt whether the entire nation is going to survive. It may very well turn out to be literally catastrophically racist.

 

You write some shite sonny. 

[Justin Z]

16 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

You write some shite sonny. 

 

Away and fling it at yourself

[His name is]

On 10/09/2020 at 17:35, fancy a brew said:

 

Girl or boy?

Gender neutral

[JFK-1]

23 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

The events of the last four years, including the election of a man who openly and publicly flung and continues to fling hate at Obama because he's Black, and who in real estate rampantly discriminated based on race, have put in doubt whether the entire nation is going to survive. It may very well turn out to be literally catastrophically racist.

 

If Trump were to get another 4 years we will indisputably see a further emboldening of the racist element he has already energised. There's a reason the KKK and neo nazis endorse him and it isn't for any level of competence.

It's like a return to the Jim Crow era to hear a US president actually utter the words "good people" in reference to these unabashed bigots.

[Sharpie]

17 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

If Trump were to get another 4 years we will indisputably see a further emboldening of the racist element he has already energised. There's a reason the KKK and neo nazis endorse him and it isn't for any level of competence.

It's like a return to the Jim Crow era to hear a US president actually utter the words "good people" in reference to these unabashed bigots.

 

[Sharpie]

11 minutes ago, Sharpie said:

 

  

I don't disagree with your principal point,  but if Trump does get another four years of Office I don't see his support go after only those of darker colors they will go after everyone regardless  of color or shade of color who is not seen to worship their godlike leader. It will be total anarchy, despised by the rest of the World but still strong enough and armed well enough to withstand most efforts. Its funny how if you listen to the news in your own in my case little mind you can see a possible natural solution to Trumpism. Some experts talking about the severity of the fires presently burning, the increasingly high summer temperatures, and the shortages in places of humidity could lead to what has been prophesied by educated persons for a long time the end of earth as we know it, theres the cure for Trump, but just like Castor Oil when you were a kid sometimes the cure is worse than the ailment.

Edited September 12, 2020 by Sharpie

[Cade]

Family of Breonna Taylor awarded a $12million settlement for wrongful killing.

 

Still no criminal charges brought against any of police officers involved.

Only one of them has been fired.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2020 by Cade

[Justin Z]

Trump-appointed FBI Director Christopher Wray, who also served as Assistant Attorney General under George W. Bush, testifying this morning before Congress, contradicts Trump and AG Barr.

 

Per Wray, the "biggest chunk" making up the domestic terrorism threat is white supremacists—in other words, Trump supporters, Boogaloo Boys, militia groups—NOT Antifa. Wray: "We look at Antifa as more of an ideology or a movement than an organization." Antifa is an ideology, and that ideology is anti-fascism. You're either for, or against, fascism. It's pretty simple.

 

Meanwhile, right-wing accelerationist groups, like the ones the FBI says actually exist, and which we have seen often have police support or in extreme cases, active involvement, are the ones committing most of the vandalism and violence, and it's not even a secret. You have to have been trying not to hear about it, and as we've seen in this thread, many people have done and are continuing to do just that.

 

On Barr's remarks that the Department of Justice is political and the FBI a collection of agents working on behalf of the Attorney General, "We, the FBI, work for the American people."

 

 

Edited September 17, 2020 by Justin Z

[Justin Z]

This piece really hits it, and hits it well.

 

Matter of survival: Why Black Americans normalize non-violent racism

 

I am a graduate of Harvard Law School; a law professor; a municipal judge; a wife and mother. By any measure, my life is an example of success. But that success has come at a steep price, paid for by denying my pain.

. . .

For me, normalizing racism began when I was 7 years old. I cried when my mother told me she would be fired for being late to work, because I thought she meant she would actually be set on fire, just like the house of the other Black family a few blocks away.  

 

A few years later, when I was only a 10 year old playing in my front yard, I was referred to as the N-word. This was the first time but not the last. And, like WNBA superstar A’ja Wilson, I too was "uninvited" from a birthday sleepover in the fourth grade. My friend told me her dad didn’t like Black people. I was heartbroken, but I simply smiled to hide the hurt. I learned the painful lesson that I was not her friend, I was her Black friend. I have experienced countless examples of similarly-hurtful treatment.

. . .

Whenever my husband and I visit Jasper, Texas, we visit the memorial to his relative, James Byrd Jr., the Black man chained to the back of a pickup truck and dragged to his death in 1998. Byrd’s heinous death, plus the vandalism that continues to demean his memorial, inflicts collateral damage on us, our family, and our nation.

 

Have I ever personally experienced racism? Every. Single. Day. I am soul-achingly tired. Tired of denying, minimizing, and dealing with racism. Tired of waking my daughter up from nightmares where she’s asking me if the police are going to kill us. Tired of a lifetime of conversations about racism, service on diversity committees, and participation in anti-racism workshops. Tired of being terrified every time my gentle, educated Black husband leaves our house, he will be the victim of police violence.

---

Imagine referring to the race of someone who feels the pain in this author's words and thinks that pain is an injustice, as a "woke American". Imagine enthusiastically placing yourself on the same side as people who vandalise memorials to modern-day lynching victims, looking down your nose with contempt at people who do not. Imagine denying that white privilege exists.

 

I can only think of one motivation for wanting so fervently "to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears". Perhaps you can think of some others; please share them if so.

[Justin Z]

In case it was still unclear...

 

 

[The Internet]

Gonna get messy again isn't it. 

[Justin Z]

1 hour ago, weehammy said:

Wow! That should get the esteemed judge the Nobel Prize for victimhood.

 

Imagine the sort of person who reads about a woman who as a child thought "getting fired" meant having her house burned down, like the other Black family in the neighbourhood who'd had theirs burned down—because of their race; whose daughter has nightmares about being killed by police because of what she's seen happen to people of her race; and so forth, and their reaction is "Nobel Prize for victimhood."

 

Incredible how some people will go out of their way to be as shitty towards other human beings as possible. There's not a lot you need to say about such folk; they say it all about themselves.

[Justin Z]

1 hour ago, Barack said:

Officer in the Breona Taylor murder, indicted.

 

Charged with...well, nothing really. Endangering the neighbouring apartment by firing bullets.

 

Her death...? Nope. $15k bail. 

 

Next...

 

39 minutes ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

Gonna get messy again isn't it. 

 

Extremely. I can guarantee there are protesters, who were doing nothing but protesting police brutality, who have already been more severely charged than these police officers were for murdering a woman in her sleep.

 

What a ****ed up country this is.

 

Edited September 23, 2020 by Justin Z

[Sharpie]

I am starting to think the election is a waste of time and money. This time next year Trump will still be President whether elected or not. My past life, a policeman, if things keep going the way they are in the States that career will not be a thing of pride, as that once proud profession was, but they will be considered the enforcers for a dictatorial regime. It has become a thing that you would have expected to see in movies, or novels not real life. The question for me now is did you ever think you would ask yourself, "Death where is thy sting."

 

Edited September 23, 2020 by Sharpie

[Shanks said no]

Mob already gathering in Louisville with around 4 1/2 hours to go until dusk. Think it will be a long night there.

[The Internet]

Am I right in saying that the officer, legally, would've faced the same charges even if she hadn't been shot and killed? Obviously he wouldn't because in that case no one would even know this happened but her death isn't actually a factor in the legal process? 

[Justin Z]

49 minutes ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

Am I right in saying that the officer, legally, would've faced the same charges even if she hadn't been shot and killed? Obviously he wouldn't because in that case no one would even know this happened but her death isn't actually a factor in the legal process? 

 

That is correct. There is nothing in the charge that has anything to do with anyone dying or even being injured. It is merely a charge about being reckless with others' safety which is criminal regardless—and—it's in relation to the neighbours. Not to Taylor.

 

So it's not just that her death isn't a factor, legally speaking. She is not a factor. At all.

 

Edited September 23, 2020 by Justin Z

[Justin Z]

1 hour ago, Barack said:

Didn't realise the black AG, Daniel Cameron, was in fact a Trump supporter. And spoke quite recently at a convention.

 

I'm sure the two things are coincidental.

 

Oh absolutely, couldn't be more unrelated 😒

[Justin Z]

 

2 hours ago, The Frenchman Returns said:

Mob already gathering in Louisville with around 4 1/2 hours to go until dusk. Think it will be a long night there.

 

As expected.

 

[Justin Z]

How white nationalist militia get treated:

 

 

 

How non-racist regular folk protesting that there are zero consequences for police murdering Black women in their sleep get treated:

 

 

Live multi-streaming on Twitch, mostly from Louisville at the moment:

https://www.twitch.tv/SeattleProtestNetwork

 

Edited September 23, 2020 by Justin Z

[Ray Gin]

4 hours ago, Barack said:

Officer in the Breona Taylor murder, indicted.

 

Charged with...well, nothing really. Endangering the neighbouring apartment by firing bullets.

 

Her death...? Nope. $15k bail. 

 

Next...

 

 

[alwaysthereinspirit]

5 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

 

Extremely. I can guarantee there are protesters, who were doing nothing but protesting police brutality, who have already been more severely charged than these police officers were for murdering a woman in her sleep.

 

What a ****ed up country this is.

 

Good story Bro..,.

[Justin Z]

2 hours ago, alwaysthereinspirit said:

Good story Bro..,.

 

Protesters held on $1 million bail after demonstration over Pennsylvania police shooting

 

"Suspects piled street signs, trash cans, a metal dumpster, a metal bike rack, pieces of plywood and a wooden pallet at the intersection of N. Prince St. and W. Chestnut St," police said in a statement. "The suspects filled the dumpster with additional trash bags, as well as the wood, and set the contents on fire."

 

So light some property worth a couple grand on fire in the middle of a street, get hit with a cool million in bail. Murder a woman in her sleep while a police officer, fifteen grand.

 

Not cool. Bro.

[ri Alban]

10 hours ago, Barack said:

Officer in the Breona Taylor murder, indicted.

 

Charged with...well, nothing really. Endangering the neighbouring apartment by firing bullets.

 

Her death...? Nope. $15k bail. 

 

Next...

Murder? Kill, yes, murder, no. 

[JFK-1]

I don't think BLM do themselves any favours becoming involved in this. I don't see how her colour has any relevance to what went down here. I think she could have been anybody of any race and would have been shot in this poorly thought out and poorly executed incident.

[Justin Z]

52 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

I don't think BLM do themselves any favours becoming involved in this. I don't see how her colour has any relevance to what went down here. I think she could have been anybody of any race and would have been shot in this poorly thought out and poorly executed incident.

 

Yes, I think so too. She could have been any colour and been murdered by police, in her sleep.

 

If she were a different race, would the only crime charged to the police officers who murdered her have been endangerment of the next door white neighbours, or more accurately, their walls, for having been shot with stray bullets? We'll never know.

 

But BLM's involvement is about a lot more than just the initial incidents in a vacuum. And unlike the All Lives Matter crowd, they actually advocate for all lives.

 

White cop, white victim and Black Lives Matter activists who cry, 'Enough!'

 

When video footage was released Friday of a white Mesa, Ariz., police officer shooting dead a white man after the victim begged for his life while crawling on the floor, it was Black Lives Matter activists who called his death an outrage. The All Lives Matter crowd said nothing about Daniel Shaver's violent demise because All Lives Matter isn't a thing. It's just cynical opposition to the thing that is Black Lives Matter.

 

You know it's true. If you're wrongly shot by the police nobody shouting "All Lives Matter" is going to speak up for you, march for you, or even write a tweet describing your death as a disgrace. You've got a much better chance getting sympathy from somebody chanting Black Lives Matter even in the case that you aren't black.

. . .

Deray Mckesson, a prominent Black Lives Matter activist who was wrongly arrested in Baton Rouge while protesting Alton Sterling's death at the hands of police, tweeted Friday, "We talk about the disproportionate violence of the police towards people of color because it's true. It's also true that the police kill white citizens too. Police violence is everyone's problem. #DanielShaver should be alive today."

 

Edited September 24, 2020 by Justin Z

[JFK-1]

16 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Yes, I think so too. She could have been any colour and been murdered by police, in her sleep.

 

If she were a different race, would the only crime charged to the police officers who murdered her have been endangerment of the next door white neighbours, or more accurately, their walls, for having been shot with stray bullets? We'll never know.

 

But BLM's involvement is about a lot more than just the initial incidents in a vacuum. And unlike the All Lives Matter crowd, they actually advocate for all lives.

 

White cop, white victim and Black Lives Matter activists who cry, 'Enough!'

 

When video footage was released Friday of a white Mesa, Ariz., police officer shooting dead a white man after the victim begged for his life while crawling on the floor, it was Black Lives Matter activists who called his death an outrage. The All Lives Matter crowd said nothing about Daniel Shaver's violent demise because All Lives Matter isn't a thing. It's just cynical opposition to the thing that is Black Lives Matter.

 

You know it's true. If you're wrongly shot by the police nobody shouting "All Lives Matter" is going to speak up for you, march for you, or even write a tweet describing your death as a disgrace. You've got a much better chance getting sympathy from somebody chanting Black Lives Matter even in the case that you aren't black.

. . .

Deray Mckesson, a prominent Black Lives Matter activist who was wrongly arrested in Baton Rouge while protesting Alton Sterling's death at the hands of police, tweeted Friday, "We talk about the disproportionate violence of the police towards people of color because it's true. It's also true that the police kill white citizens too. Police violence is everyone's problem. #DanielShaver should be alive today."

 

I think it's a complex one and one which wouldn't happen in every country. It's a consequence of a nation awash with guns and a mentality that you can shoot anybody who bothers you with their insane stand your ground laws.

And what is it they call shooting house breakers? The castle doctrine? Grants immunity from murder charges I believe.

Whereas in Britain you shoot somebody dead despite the fact they have broken into your house you're likely to end up in jail as farmer Tony Martin discovered in a famous case back in the late 90's when he shot and killed a teenage burglar.

To my knowledge her boyfriend fired the first shot hitting one of the cops following which they blazed away with a volley of gunfire. But again, as far as he's aware they have broken in and he can shoot them. Right?

The boyfriend has done nothing wrong to my knowledge. She did nothing wrong. They totally ****ed up in their execution of this 'raid'.

But I have no idea how to unpack that. And again it's a consequence of a nation awash with guns. You know as well as I do this is highly unlikely to happen in Scotland where it's not unusual for police to crash down a door with a a battering ram. But people don't get shot in the process.

[JFK-1]

18 hours ago, Justin Z said:

Yes, I think so too. She could have been any colour and been murdered by police, in her sleep.

 

This breaks it down in a lot more detail than I haver seen anywhere else.

 

Washington Post opinion piece - Correcting the misinformation about Breonna Taylor

 

Wednesday’s announcement from Kentucky Attorney General Daniel Cameron about criminal charges in the Breonna Taylor case set off a frenzy of misinformation on social media.

Based on what we do know — which I’ve culled from my own reporting, reporting from the New York Times and the Louisville Courier-Journal, as well as from conversations with the lawyers for Taylor’s family — the decision to charge Detective Brett Hankison with wanton endangerment was probably correct, as was the decision not to charge the other officers involved in the shooting.

If ballistics had conclusively shown that one of the bullets from Hankison’s gun killed Taylor, he could be charged with reckless homicide, but according to Cameron, the bullets that struck Taylor could not be matched to Hankison’s gun.

There’s the problem that the police who conducted the raid were relying on a warrant procured by another officer, which was then signed by a judge. There were many flaws and abrogations in that process, but it would be unfair and not legal to hold them accountable for any of that.

But “not illegal” should not mean “immune from criticism.” Part of the problem was Cameron himself, who was selective in what information he released to the point of misleading the public about key facts in the case.

(This raises real questions about whether the grand jury was also misled. That’s why an attorney for Taylor’s boyfriend Kenneth Walker, who fired at the police during the raid, is demanding that Cameron release the evidence that was presented to the grand jury.)

Furthermore, Taylor’s death was not, as Cameron suggested, simply a tragedy for which no one is to blame. The police work in this case was sloppy, and the warrant service was reckless.

Taylor is dead because of a cascade of errors, bad judgment and dereliction of duty. And it’s important that the record on this be clear. So here are some correctives for the misinformation I’ve seen online:

“This was not a no-knock warrant.”

It absolutely was. It says so right on the warrant. Moreover, the portion of the warrant authorizing a no-knock entry cited only cut-and-pasted information from the four other warrants that were part of the same investigation.

This is a violation of a requirement set by the Supreme Court that no-knock warrants should be granted when police can present evidence that a particular suspect is a risk to shoot at police or destroy evidence if they knock and announce. They didn’t do that.

The police claim they were told after the fact to disregard the no-knock portion and instead knock and announce themselves, because, by that point, someone had determined that Taylor was a “soft target” — not a threat, and not a major player in the drug investigation.

But there are problems with this account. If Taylor was a “soft target,” why not surround the house, get on a megaphone, and ask her to come out with her hands up? Why still take down her door with a battering ram? Why still serve the warrant in the middle of the night?

“The police knocked and announced themselves, and a witness heard them.”

In what was probably the most frustrating part of Cameron’s press event, he cited a single witness who claimed to have heard the officers identify themselves as police. I spoke with Taylor’s lawyers in June, who at that time had interviewed 11 of her neighbors.

Many lived in the same apartment building as Taylor. According to the lawyers, no neighbor heard an announcement. The New York Times interviewed 12 neighbors.

They found one — just one — who heard an announcement. And he only heard one announcement. He also told the paper that with all the commotion, it’s entirely possible that Walker and Taylor didn’t hear that announcement. Cameron neglected to mention any of this.

Moreover, in a CNN interview Wednesday night, Walker’s attorney, Steven Romines, said the witness to whom Cameron was referring initially said he did not hear the police announce themselves. And he repeated that assertion in a second interview.

It was only after his third interview that he finally said he heard an announcement. That’s critical context that Cameron neglected to mention.

“Even Kenneth Walker has admitted that the police pounded on the door for 30 to 45 seconds. Therefore, by definition, this was not a ’no-knock’ raid.”

With a few exceptions, when conducting a raid, government agents must knock and announce their presence and purpose, and give anyone inside the opportunity to let the officers in peacefully — thus avoiding violence to their person and destruction of their property.

If the police simply pounded on the door for 45 seconds and never appropriately announced themselves, that’s even worse than not knocking at all. It likely made Walker even more fearful that the people outside the door were there to do harm to him and Taylor.

“If the police say they announced themselves, and one neighbor heard it, then they probably did. So what if the other neighbors didn’t hear it? They were probably asleep.”

 

The entire purpose of the knock-and-announce requirement is to provide ample notice to the people inside the home the police are trying to enter. If the police didn’t yell loudly and clearly who they were — loud enough for the people inside to hear — the knock-and-announce portion is rendered meaningless, and the entire action becomes no different than a no-knock raid.

As the Times reported, the officers on this raid were trained by a man who, oddly enough, is now president of the Louisville city council. “During his 19-year career as a police officer, he had instructed recruits at the local training academy about ‘dynamic entry.‘

Especially when executing a warrant at night,” he told the paper, “he told them to yell ‘police’ at the top of their lungs, specifically so that occupants would not mistake them for an intruder.” That clearly did not happen here.

“Breonna Taylor was not asleep in her bed when she was shot.”

This is true. And it’s also true that many media reports and activists stated she was. I’m not sure what difference this makes. She and Walker were in their bed when police began pounding on the door. They were awakened at 12:40 a.m. There’s every reason to believe Walker when he says they were frightened.

“The man who shot at the police, Breonna Taylor’s boyfriend, was also a drug dealer.”

Taylor’s ex-boyfriend was dealing drugs. That man, Jamarcus Glover, was the main focus of the police investigation. Walker, Taylor’s boyfriend at the time of her death, was not named in any investigation.

A few people have pointed to a leaked police memo that includes quotes from Glover taken from recorded phone conversations at the jail as proof that the two knew one another.

The Louisville police themselves have said the leaked memo was an early, unverified draft written mid-investigation, that these quotes were taken out of context, and that the way they’re being used is deeply misleading. (For example, Glover said Walker was also in jail. He was — because police had arrested him after the raid.)

“Breonna Taylor’s ex-boyfriend implicated her in his drug dealing.”

The Times reported that according to friends, family and Taylor’s social media posts, she was on and off again with both Glover — who friends, family and Taylor herself thought was bad for her — and Walker, who they say treated her well and was, by all accounts, a good and decent man.

Glover was in and out of jail, and Taylor paid his bail more than once. She seemed to genuinely care for him, even as she was trying to extricate herself from his life. (She had blocked him on her cellphone.)

There were a few other incidents in the warrant that some have said implicated Taylor. In December 2016 she rented a car, then loaned it to Glover. He then loaned it to a man involved in his drug dealing — and that man was later found dead in the car.

But police who investigated were satisfied that Taylor had no knowledge of the murder, or of how Glover had used the car when she loaned it to him. The other incident occurred two months before the raid, when Glover retrieved a package he had ordered delivered to Taylor’s home.

The police claimed a postal inspector told them this package was “suspicious.” The postal inspector later said he had no record of that. According to attorneys for Taylor’s family, the package contained clothes and shoes.

Some have again pointed to that leaked memo, in which Glover seemed to suggest storing money at Taylor’s apartment. But the police found no cash in the apartment.

Glover has also since publicly said that Taylor had no involvement in his drug dealing. And he may have had some incentive to say otherwise: In July, attorneys for Taylor’s family say prosecutors presented Glover with a plea bargain that listed Taylor as a co-defendant, suggesting that he’d get reduced charges if he implicated her. (Prosecutors say the plea deal was just a draft, though Taylor’s family’s attorneys say that claim is dubious.)

“The judge who signed the warrant is not to blame.”

The warrant in this case was signed by Louisville Circuit Judge Mary Shaw. In an op-ed in the Courier-Journal, one of Shaw’s fellow judges defended accusations that she had “rubber-stamped” the warrant.

Judge Charles L. Cunningham wrote that “affidavits are excruciatingly detailed,” said Shaw scrupulously reviews search warrant affidavits, and said the accusation from an attorney for Taylor’s family that Shaw took only 12 minutes to review the five warrants in the investigation was riddled with “falsehoods and misstatements.”

Here’s what we can say: The portion of the warrant affidavit that requested a no-knock raid was the exact same language used in the other four warrants.

It stated that drug dealers are dangerous and might dispose of evidence if police knock and announce. It contained no particularized information as to why Taylor herself was dangerous or presented such a threat.

And that, according to the Supreme Court, is not sufficient to grant a no-knock warrant. Yet Shaw granted it anyway. Perhaps she provided more scrutiny to the other parts of the affidavit. But she did not ask for more evidence in the no-knock portion. And she should have.

The only possible defense of Shaw here is that, as regular readers of this page know, judges seem to grant no-knocks when they aren’t merited and in defiance of Supreme Court precedent with regularity.

And there’s no harm done if the no-knock position of the warrant is illegal, because the same Supreme Court has said the Exclusionary Rule doesn’t apply. And that is precisely the problem.

“If Kenneth Walker hadn’t shot at the cops, Breonna Taylor would still be alive.”

Walker admits he fired first. But he says he fired only after he and Taylor repeatedly asked who was pounding at the door, got no answer, and after a battering ram busted open the door.

If Walker reasonably believed that the men breaking into the apartment were not police, he had every right to defend himself and Taylor. At that point, the police also had the right to return fire.

The latter would be true even if the courts later determined that the police had failed to properly identify themselves (which would make this a no-knock raid) and the no-knock portion of the warrant was later determined to be illegal (which it was). That’s how the law works.

But there is every reason to believe Walker did not know the men outside the door were police. Walker is not a criminal. There were no drugs in the house. You don’t need a license to have a gun in a private home in Kentucky, but Walker had gone the extra step to obtain a concealed carry license. (Kentucky changed its law in 2019, and no longer requires a license for concealed carry either.)

That isn’t something hardened criminals hellbent on killing cops tend to do. Neither is calling 911, which Walker also did after the shooting. Moreover, Walker knew about Taylor’s past involvement with the drug dealer Glover — and that Glover wasn’t happy about Taylor seeing Walker. He has said he feared that it was Glover or his associates outside the door. That too seems entirely reasonable.

Cameron’s statement gives the implication that Walker should have known that the men were police. But if police and prosecutors truly believed Walker knew, or should have known, that the raiding men were police, they would have prosecuted Walker for knowingly trying to kill them.

Police and prosecutors don’t take that sort of thing lightly. They did arrest him for firing at the officers. But they later dropped those charges and released him. That speaks volumes.

The really sad part about this is that Cameron’s misleading statement about the witness who heard police announce — along with the fact the Walker fired first — has led some to put the blame for Taylor’s death on Walker.

What Walker did that night is what just about anyone would have done if they thought they or their loved ones were under attack. Walker and Taylor were in love. They had been discussing marriage. He was defending a woman he wanted to marry, and with whom he wanted to raise a family. To put her death on him only adds to his pain and grief. It’s just incredibly cruel.

“This is just an all-around tragedy. We shouldn’t focus on who to blame, whether its police, prosecutors, Walker or Taylor.”

The most serious questions here concern the investigation itself, and why these officers were asked to serve a warrant on Taylor’s home in the first place. There’s the lie about the postal inspector. There is the fact that despite the surveillance on Taylor’s home, the police didn’t know there was another person inside.

There are the police bullets that were inadvertently fired into surrounding apartments. There’s the cut-and-paste language used to secure the no-knock portion of the warrant.

There’s also the fact that the officer who procured the warrant was not part of the raid team. There’s the fact that five officers involved in the Taylor raid were involved in another violent, botched raid on an innocent family in 2018.

And there’s the 2015 study by criminologist Bryan Patrick Schaefer, who was allowed to embed himself with the Louisville police department. As Schaffer wrote, “Of the 73 search warrant entries observed, every entry involved using a ram to break the door down.

Further, the detectives announce their presence and purpose in conjunction with the first hit on the door. A detective explained, ‘As long as we announce our presence, we are good. We don’t want to give them any time to destroy evidence or grab a weapon, so we go fast and get through the door quick.‘”

Schaefer added that in the raids he observed, the difference between how police served a no-knock warrant and a knock-and-announce warrant was “minimal in practice.”

Schaeffer also found that for warrant service, Louisville police fill out a “risk matrix” to determine whether to bring in a SWAT team. A case has to meet a minimum score before determining whether SWAT will be used.

The other raids done in conjunction with the Glover investigation did use SWAT, which also means police ensure there are ambulances and medical personnel nearby. I happen to think SWAT teams are overutilized.

But if you are going to break into someone’s house, a well-trained, full-time SWAT team is far preferable to a bunch of cops in street clothes kicking down a door.

The irony here is that Taylor was not deemed threatening enough to merit a SWAT team. Instead, she was subjected to all of the most dangerous aspects of a SWAT raid, undertaken by officers in street clothes.

There were no medics nearby. In fact, an ambulance on standby was told to leave the scene an hour before the raid. After she was shot, Taylor lay in her house for 20 minutes before receiving any medical attention.

And there are more questions:

— Why serve a warrant in the middle of the night on a witness tangential to an investigation?

— Why did the police alter the times on their reports?

— The most recent activity involving Taylor on the search warrants was in January. Why wait until March to serve the warrant on her apartment?

— Why didn’t police do any further investigation to better establish how involved in the drug conspiracy Taylor really was?

To simply blow this off as a tragedy for which no one is to blame is an insult to the life and legacy of Taylor, but also to the dozens of innocent people who have been gunned down in their own homes before her.

And the effort by Cameron and others to make all of this go away by feeding the public half-truths that blame the victims in this story — Taylor and Walker — for Taylor’s death is inexcusable.

We could prevent the next Breonna Taylor. We could ban forced entry raids to serve drug warrants. We could hold judges accountable for signing warrants that don’t pass constitutional muster.

We could demand that police officers wear body cameras during these raids to hold them accountable, and that they be adequately punished when they fail to activate them.

We could do a lot to make sure there are no more Breonna Taylors. The question is whether we want to.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/09/24/correcting-misinformation-about-breonna-taylor/

[Justin Z]

Great post @JFK-1. The article you quoted goes into a great deal of detail about the entire process, the entire structure of everything that led to Breonna Taylor's death.

 

See, people criticise that, rightly, and they get accused of "hating the police", "painting with a broad brush", "being unreasonable", etc. No. If there was actual accountability, from the top to the bottom, there wouldn't be protests out there looking for the officers directly involved, who also ****ed up, to be arrested. Because they never would've been put in that situation in the first place.

 

Apologists for this bullshit, report to your nearest reeducation centre for your complimentary un****ing. Stat.

[Justin Z]

On 23/09/2020 at 10:21, weehammy said:

Wow! That should get the esteemed judge the Nobel Prize for victimhood.

 

If I had a dollar for every time Black people played the race card just because the president of the United States said they are genetically inferior to whites...

 

Trump Preached White Supremacy in Minnesota, America Barely Noticed

 

As a historian who has written about the Holocaust, I'll say bluntly: This is indistinguishable from the Nazi rhetoric that led to Jews, disabled people, LGBTQ, Romani and others being exterminated. This is America 2020. This is where [Trump and] the GOP has taken us.

 

Wow! Wee victims. But hey, thanks for nailing your "colours" to the mast for all to see, mate

 

Edited September 24, 2020 by Justin Z

[Sharpie]

2 hours ago, Justin Z said:

Great post @JFK-1. The article you quoted goes into a great deal of detail about the entire process, the entire structure of everything that led to Breonna Taylor's death.

 

See, people criticise that, rightly, and they get accused of "hating the police", "painting with a broad brush", "being unreasonable", etc. No. If there was actual accountability, from the top to the bottom, there wouldn't be protests out there looking for the officers directly involved, who also ****ed up, to be arrested. Because they never would've been put in that situation in the first place.

 

Apologists for this bullshit, report to your nearest reeducation centre for your complimentary un****ing. Stat.

 

Your key point is the comment "if there was actual accountability" that is the main thing I see missing from the police departments in the States today. I know as a senior commander my constant duty was to keep up policies and procedures that I saw as requiring update because of a particular incident, or legal decisions etc. That was my responsibility as a manager, the people subordinate to me were delegated to see that they were followed. Its actually a pretty easy job, it only gets difficult, confusing and a source of trouble when you do not create enforce and follow your own schedules of procedure, and again thats what seems to be happening in the States.

[Justin Z]

2 minutes ago, Sharpie said:

 

Your key point is the comment "if there was actual accountability" that is the main thing I see missing from the police departments in the States today. I know as a senior commander my constant duty was to keep up policies and procedures that I saw as requiring update because of a particular incident, or legal decisions etc. That was my responsibility as a manager, the people subordinate to me were delegated to see that they were followed. Its actually a pretty easy job, it only gets difficult, confusing and a source of trouble when you do not create enforce and follow your own schedules of procedure, and again thats what seems to be happening in the States.

 

Spot on Bob! Even you, a man who did his earnest best to enforce the law in a fair and just way, for decades, will say this. Somehow you have read my words, and the words of others, and not felt inclined to attack the messengers. Glad we have been able to have a dialogue on this and I appreciate you reinforcing the point that the number one driving issue here is the lack of accountability, a structural failure that needs addressed or social unrest will continue to occur.

 

 

[ri Alban]

A law student that does know what murder is or isn't. Now, that's a tricky one. 

[Justin Z]

Here’s real talk, with links to primary source materials, from a a veteran reporter on police with a couple of decades of experience.

 

The officers lied to obtain this warrant. The prosecutors then tried to induce perjury out of her ex.

 

The only reason this isn't "murder" is because America has spent nearly a century redefining it in such a way as to let the police, and only the police, get away with it.

Correcting the misinformation about Breonna Taylor

[ri Alban]

The police didn't plan to go to her flat and shoot her dead. They entered with force, the boyfriend opened fire, at these intruders, the police fired back, one with absolute carelessness. She died. Murder? No. Manslaughter or unlawful killing? Yes. 

If I knock someone down in a car by ramming them, I've murdered them. If I'm on the phone or I've fell asleep at the wheel. You could argue murder, but it's not. Intent, it's all about intent. 

Something should be done bout the way these episodes are investigated, it's too quick and usually falls to the advantage of the police.  Yes they need to be able to act without fear of prosecution, but they also need to act with fear of prosecution. 

[doctor jambo]

There’s loads posted above, but the reality is she died because her partner had a gun.

 

without that, she is alive.

the rest of it is inconsequential.

warrants/ armed officers / uniforms / errors- all pretty standard stuff to make minor errors in

 

but if a swat team come through MY door, right now having mistaken me/ my wife or address for something gangster- we would t be shot, because we are not pointing guns at officers.

 

taylor is dead because her partner had a gun in the house

 

had whitey fired on officers coming through the door. He would be converted into a colander as well

[Cade]

The entire point is that it was a "no-knock" entry.

Police didn't identify themselves.

The homeowner thought it was a burglary and used his gun to defend his property.

 

 

[ri Alban]

7 hours ago, Cade said:

The entire point is that it was a "no-knock" entry.

Police didn't identify themselves.

The homeowner thought it was a burglary and used his gun to defend his property.

 

 

Bollox. 

[Weakened Offender]

10 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

There’s loads posted above, but the reality is she died because her partner had a gun.

 

without that, she is alive.

the rest of it is inconsequential.

warrants/ armed officers / uniforms / errors- all pretty standard stuff to make minor errors in

 

but if a swat team come through MY door, right now having mistaken me/ my wife or address for something gangster- we would t be shot, because we are not pointing guns at officers.

 

taylor is dead because her partner had a gun in the house

 

had whitey fired on officers coming through the door. He would be converted into a colander as well

 

You don't hide much in your odious drivel. 

[alwaysthereinspirit]

10 hours ago, Cade said:

The entire point is that it was a "no-knock" entry.

Police didn't identify themselves.

The homeowner thought it was a burglary and used his gun to defend his property.

 

 

Do you know for a fact it was a no knock type entry?

[The Internet]

Reports are that police did announce themselves, despite having a no knock warrant. Whether that's true or not I have no idea and even if it is, they used a battering ram to smash their way in just after midnight while they were in bed. It's exactly the situation where pro-gun people will tell you it's reasonable to start firing. Having said that I don't think race is the issue in this case, it's gun culture, trigger happy police and their ability to get away with killing random citizens for no reason. 

[Justin Z]

36 minutes ago, alwaysthereinspirit said:

Do you know for a fact it was a no knock type entry?

 

The fact is, a no-knock warrant was issued. Police now claim they didn't make use of a no-knock warrant they specifically went out of their way to obtain.

 

10 hours ago, Cade said:

The entire point is that it was a "no-knock" entry.

Police didn't identify themselves.

The homeowner thought it was a burglary and used his gun to defend his property.

 

Yes. And even if, implausibly, the police did knock, any random burglar could say exactly what they did, "Louisville Metro Police, open up" or whatever. Bottom line, you don't ****ing know, and according to white gun culture in this country, protecting yourself and your home with a gun is an inviolable constitutional right—and when such a right is violated, it's supposed to be severely punished.

 

18 minutes ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

 It's exactly the situation where pro-gun people will tell you it's reasonable to start firing.

 

 

Or All Lives Matter people. But what they really are, are authority worshippers, they don't actually give a ****.

 

18 minutes ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

Having said that I don't think race is the issue in this case, it's gun culture, trigger happy police and their ability to get away with killing random citizens for no reason. 

 

Whether race was a factor in the murder itself, that's definitely debatable, agreed. Whether it's been a factor since, including the police's offer to let the ex off easy if he'd perjure himself and impugn Taylor's character? Much harder to deny it's not a factor, because white people's character doesn't get raked over the coals in the media when they are murdered by police. But ultimately, the bit in bold is what matters: Once again, no accountability to anything except property, in this case, drywall hit by a stray bullet or two. Since American police exist first and foremost to protect property owners' interests, this should come as no surprise to anyone.

[Justin Z]

The establishment convincing poor rednecks who've been poor for generations that they have their best interests at heart was easy, because all they had to do was use their own racism against them. Pathetic, but true.