Levein and MacPhee left on May 31st ( updated )

[Class of 75]

2 hours ago, jr ewing said:

But they all looked great on you tube. 

Sad but true. 

[Thomaso]

18 minutes ago, steven_mck said:

He was just too demanding on himself trying to do two jobs at the same time. In-fact, I don't think anybody would have been capable of doing both jobs really well. I think him and Ann Budge now realise that and hold their hands up. When there were problems with the teams on-field performances (and results), he wasn't able to put all his focus and energies into fixing the problems.

He was the guy that twisted Budge’s arm to give him the Managers job after we punted his Golden boy Cathro!!

He thinks he is a football Demi-god.....he still does!

 

[ri Alban]

You couldn't mark his neck with a blowtorch. 

[Morgan]

Craig is probably right.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

12 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

What good work did he do behind the scenes at Leicester. I’m asking for one of my best pals who is a Leicester ST holder he told me Levein set the Club back years!

 

I've always been commenting on Levein as someone who has followed his career very closely, as he was one of my favourite players and also one of our better former players turned managers. So I followed what he did at Leicester and D Utd with a lot of interest. Many people commenting on him now seem to be judging his entire career on one 18 month period. 

 

Anyhow, I tried to find the article I read that showed Leicester benefited later from the work he did with young players but just found this forum and can't be arsed looking further.

 

https://www.foxestalk.co.uk/topic/15821-thanks-craig/

 

This is another generally positive article and interesting comments on the type of football he played from Leicester local press reporter who's covered the team for 30 years - https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:wy5AxQtpQhMJ:https://www.scotsman.com/sport/leicester-sacking-said-more-about-boards-fear-craig-leveins-ability-2461130

 

"A lot of Leicester City fans now acknowledge that it was a bit too hasty to remove him at that time. The principles he put forward and the football he played were good. The idea that he was a failure is wrong; he wasn't given a chance to become a success."

 

 

 

 

 

[Class of 75]

46 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Honestly, when they were fit I think he would have played Naismith, Washington/Walker and Boyce (a player he tried to sign before) up top and gone for it. I was disappointed Stendel didn't do that. The myth of Levein being a defensive minded manager is exactly that - a myth. He was a pragmatic manager and he would have known that draws away were not what was needed in a relegation fight. Or maybe not. He had lost some what made him a good manager so maybe he wouldn't have turned things around. 

Did you actually watch Hearts under his tenure? Levein played defensive football against Kilmarnock at home. That sums him up. A pub team like Kilmarnock and he treated them like Real Madrid. The man couldn't manage his way out of a paper bag. 

Edited June 8, 2020 by Class of 75

[Don Dan]

15 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

Whereas his successor has made a wonderful job since he took over

 

I think there were a few, perhaps even you, who told us he was the man

 

Still they will all now pretend 'it wasn't me' 

 

We will never know whether Levein would have kept us up but we were not bottom when he left

 

I hate the constant manager changing so if Stendel was to stay on then fine by me but pretending he has been any better than Levein is just not true

Daniel is the Man. Give him a chance. 

[Class of 75]

5 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

You couldn't mark his neck with a blowtorch. 

Great post.👍

[Lone Striker]

11 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

CL never walked away from a pay cheque in his life although he did once walk out on Hearts - when it suited him. 

He should have been binned immediately after the game. 

He wasn't just a failure : he was a disaster. 

A bit harsh.  He quickly saw what a bampot our new "saviour" was at the end of 2004, and correctly decided to try pastures new before he got the inevitable bullet.  Given Romanov's propensity for firing pretty much everyone, can you blame CL for wanting to avoid having a sacking on his CV ?

 

 

[Morgan]

22 minutes ago, OmiyaHearts said:

This. No Hearts manager should survive a result like that.

 

Those kind of results only happen when the players have lost belief in the manager.

That’s ridiculous.

 

It was 0-0 with about 18 minutes to go.  Are you saying that the players only ‘lost belief in the manager’ after 72 minutes?

 

 

[kila]

7 minutes ago, Randy Marsh said:

True.  Budge is so clueless she definately had a look at kickback to get some ideas.  Seen a thread on Stendel and thought yeah we'll go for him. 😂

 

Though to be fair from that thread it became clear he was a growing fan preference all over social media which was reflected in the bookies odds I think. There wasn't much other choice other than Stephen Robinson.

 

https://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/185534-daniel-stendel/

 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

3 minutes ago, Class of 75 said:

Did you actually watch Hearts under his tenure? Levein played defensive football against Kilmarnock at home. That sums him up. A pub team like Kilmarnock and he treated them like Real Madrid. The man coundn't manage his way out of a paper bag. 

 

Yes, that's why I literally juts posted the attacking line-ups he preferred to play when he had everyone fit, including chasing a game away at Aberdeen with 4 attackers on the pitch in the last 25/30 mins.

 

We all know it was a Levein trait that he tended to err on the side of caution away. I've followed his management career from start to finish. He was not a negative-minded manager and did not play defensive football as a rule. He maybe just didn't go for it as often as some would like, me included. The managers he appointed in Neilson and Cathro also publicly said they had a philosophy of wanting to play good passing football. Neilson's teams scored freely most of the time he was with us until we lost our best attacker. If Levein was so defensive minded he would have appointed defensive minded managers.

Edited June 8, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Yoda]

12 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

Whereas his successor has made a wonderful job since he took over

 

I think there were a few, perhaps even you, who told us he was the man

 

Still they will all now pretend 'it wasn't me' 

 

We will never know whether Levein would have kept us up but we were not bottom when he left

 

I hate the constant manager changing so if Stendel was to stay on then fine by me but pretending he has been any better than Levein is just not true

He's trying to get a tune of Levein's duds.  Even his chosen no 2 couldn't motivate them beyond one game.

 

Christ, Pep couldn't get these guys to preform.

 

Stendel can only really be judged when he has his own team on the park.

[i8hibsh]

This is where we are now. Debating as to whether or not we would have finished 10th instead of 12th if we had kept a manager on.

 

Vlad dreamt of Champions league and breaking the OF duopoly. This regime has us in the draw for the Tunnock's Tea Cake Challenge Cup and if we had a bit more luck we would have split Hamilton, Ross County and St Mirren to avoid the drop.

 

 

[Thomaso]

4 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

I've always been commenting on Levein as someone who has followed his career very closely, as he was one of my favourite players and also one of our better former players turned managers. So I followed what he did at Leicester and D Utd with a lot of interest. Many people commenting on him now seem to be judging his entire career on one 18 month period. 

 

Anyhow, I tried to find the article I read that showed Leicester benefited later from the work he did with young players but just found this forum and can't be arsed looking further.

 

https://www.foxestalk.co.uk/topic/15821-thanks-craig/

 

This is another generally positive article and interesting comments on the type of football he played from Leicester local press reporter who's covered the team for 30 years - https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:wy5AxQtpQhMJ:https://www.scotsman.com/sport/leicester-sacking-said-more-about-boards-fear-craig-leveins-ability-2461130

 

"A lot of Leicester City fans now acknowledge that it was a bit too hasty to remove him at that time. The principles he put forward and the football he played were good. The idea that he was a failure is wrong; he wasn't given a chance to become a success."

 

 

 

 

 

If only Leicester hadn’t sacked him - no saying how many Premiership titles they could have won instead of just the one! 😉
 

[Dsjambo]

38 minutes ago, Vlad Magic said:

Your point is what exactly?

I suppose the point is that even after his shocking record over the last 18 months and the utter shambles of a ‘playing’ squad he’s left behind, he has the brass neck to even suggest he should have been kept on.

[Morgan]

Why is Pep Guardiola used as a yardstick to all things ‘great manager’?

[Byyy The Light]

What became very apparent was Levein essentially wanted to be a part time manager. He’d mellowed and lost the drive to be a proper leader (whether this was due to his health scare who knows). Instead he delegated to a bunch of inexperienced coaches and nobody really knew their arse from their elbow.  Complete malaise throughout the club from top to bottom. We were rudderless and apathy was well and truly rooted in the whole squad.

 

[Lone Striker]

19 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

Whereas his successor has made a wonderful job since he took over

 

I think there were a few, perhaps even you, who told us he was the man

 

Still they will all now pretend 'it wasn't me' 

 

We will never know whether Levein would have kept us up but we were not bottom when he left

 

I hate the constant manager changing so if Stendel was to stay on then fine by me but pretending he has been any better than Levein is just not true

Surely you realise you're not making a fair comparison ?   Levein presided over 2 years of steady league decline as manager (with a couple of good cup runs) ..... while Stendel has only  had 15 league games & 3 cup games.   We were sh1t when Levein left, and we were marginally less sh1t  under Stendel.    Give him time, assuming he wants to carry on.

[Greedy Jambo]

3 minutes ago, Dsjambo said:

I suppose the point is that even after his shocking record over the last 18 months and the utter shambles of a ‘playing’ squad he’s left behind, he has the brass neck to even suggest he should have been kept on.

 

Don't waste your time with him. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

31 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Not really. He started 18/19 playing McLean, Naismith and Uche. He started 19/20 playing Walker, Washington, Uche and Naismith. When he had all his front men fit he went for the attacking line-up more often than not - usually from the start of games.

 

Stendel, by contrast, tended to start with a fairly cautious line-up then bring masses of forwards on at the end, like Jimmy Calderwood used to do with Killie way back when.

They were strikers in name only. Walker is a waste of space and Naismith was more often than not sitting deep in midfield.  Levein"s tactics were all about hit and hope, winning free kicks and relying on pre-planned set piece routines. The guys a complete and utter erse. He'll wind up managing in the lower leagues.

[Beast Boy]

4 minutes ago, Morgan said:

Why is Pep Guardiola used as a yardstick to all things ‘great manager’?

Good point. The new Mourinho/Messi/Ronaldo couldn’t do x, y or z, of football fora debates.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

4 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

If only Leicester hadn’t sacked him - no saying how many Premiership titles they could have won instead of just the one! 😉
 

 

They seem to have had about a manager a year since he left. But then this is the club that sacked Ranieri about half a season after he won them the title.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

6 minutes ago, Byyy The Light said:

What became very apparent was Levein essentially wanted to be a part time manager. He’d mellowed and lost the drive to be a proper leader (whether this was due to his health scare who knows). Instead he delegated to a bunch of inexperienced coaches and nobody really knew their arse from their elbow.  Complete malaise throughout the club from top to bottom. We were rudderless and apathy was well and truly rooted in the whole squad.

 

 

Very much this.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

13 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

This is where we are now. Debating as to whether or not we would have finished 10th instead of 12th if we had kept a manager on.

 

Vlad dreamt of Champions league and breaking the OF duopoly. This regime has us in the draw for the Tunnock's Tea Cake Challenge Cup and if we had a bit more luck we would have split Hamilton, Ross County and St Mirren to avoid the drop.

 

 

 

With a bit more luck - or at least less bad luck - we could realistically have won a League Cup and Scottish Cup in the last two years and finished at minimum in Europe a season ago. We might still win the Scottish Cup this/last/whatever season it is.

[Holyrood_Hearts]

A couple things: CL was one of my heroes when I was growing up. I’m gutted how things have turned out under him this time around although  I wish him all the best for the future. I thought he came across really well in the interview & would do well in the media/tv if he went down that road. 
 

He’s often accused of being arrogant/stubborn & I agree to an extent, but I genuinely believe he could fix the issues. I don’t think for a minute he’d intentionally hurt the club.
 

He confirmed some things I already knew; accepting responsibility for the IC appointment, not picking any teams when RN & IC were in charge & apologising for his role in this season. I agree injuries to certain players didn’t help him this season. However, he threw the players under the bus & failed to acknowledge anything in terms of him signing the vast majority of them. They do lack character but it was his job to manage this. 
 

I personally don’t think him staying would’ve made much difference, those 6 weeks under MacPhee & delaying the appointment of Stendel  are bigger factors for me. All 3 persisting with Pereira & Berra are as important for me.

[1971fozzy]

5-0 at Livingston ffs.

Says it all . Utter disgrace and for him to come out with this shite sums him up. GTF. This is on you Craig Levein

[fila]

1 hour ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Honestly, when they were fit I think he would have played Naismith, Washington/Walker and Boyce (a player he tried to sign before) up top and gone for it. I was disappointed Stendel didn't do that. The myth of Levein being a defensive minded manager is exactly that - a myth. He was a pragmatic manager and he would have known that draws away were not what was needed in a relegation fight. Or maybe not. He had lost some what made him a good manager so maybe he wouldn't have turned things around. 

 

Correct you point out Levein being a defensive minded manager is exactly that - a myth , you could never associate the word manager with him in the first place 

 

 

 

 

[Super_Hans]

Levein's last game at McDiarmid Park was one of the worst performances I've ever seen from a Hearts team and you could tell by looking across to the bench that he didn't have a clue how to fix it.

 

A sad end.

[Pasquale for King]

2 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

I'm not sure he was officially DoF at D Utd but he did some DoF type work while there. Haven't listened yet - not a Sportsound fan these days. Surprised at the DoF comment. Sure I read he said he was in his ideal job in his early days as DoF at Hearts.

He had nearly two years experience as DoF and manager at United, he left in December 2009.

Edited June 8, 2020 by Pasquale for King

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, Randy Marsh said:

Absolutely howling patter.  A bit like when he said he didn't like Spain.  An arrogant **** of a man.   Hope he never sets foot in Tynecastle again.  Have to say the worst part of the interview was when Levein admitted that Budge asked him for his thoughts on his replacement.  That sums this whole mess up over the last few years.  Embarrassing stuff. 

It’s why we need someone who knows football as the sporting director alongside the manager, that’s Budges plan so hopefully she doesn’t ask him anything ever again. 

[Pasquale for King]

49 minutes ago, Holyrood_Hearts said:

A couple things: CL was one of my heroes when I was growing up. I’m gutted how things have turned out under him this time around although  I wish him all the best for the future. I thought he came across really well in the interview & would do well in the media/tv if he went down that road. 
 

He’s often accused of being arrogant/stubborn & I agree to an extent, but I genuinely believe he could fix the issues. I don’t think for a minute he’d intentionally hurt the club.
 

He confirmed some things I already knew; accepting responsibility for the IC appointment, not picking any teams when RN & IC were in charge & apologising for his role in this season. I agree injuries to certain players didn’t help him this season. However, he threw the players under the bus & failed to acknowledge anything in terms of him signing the vast majority of them. They do lack character but it was his job to manage this. 
 

I personally don’t think him staying would’ve made much difference, those 6 weeks under MacPhee & delaying the appointment of Stendel  are bigger factors for me. All 3 persisting with Pereira & Berra are as important for me.

I agree, I was thinking that and he’s more intelligent than most pundits, he might need to do go down that route.
He was idolised by quite a few Heats fans and we are all gutted it didn’t work out, nobody is happy to be proved right in this instance. Nobody thinks he did it on purpose, whether the turnover in players allegedly had benefits to him who knows?
I think he believes he could’ve turned it around but hardly anyone else does.

[jr ewing]

Sent me to sleep. He's hardly inspirational is He?

[jr ewing]

Goodnight or as they say in Japanese "Oshinawa ".

 

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, Lone Striker said:

A bit harsh.  He quickly saw what a bampot our new "saviour" was at the end of 2004, and correctly decided to try pastures new before he got the inevitable bullet.  Given Romanov's propensity for firing pretty much everyone, can you blame CL for wanting to avoid having a sacking on his CV ?

 

 

There was other reasons he left too let’s not rewrite history here. More money and a shot at a bigger team, not a “provincial club like Hearts” are two of the other three reasons.

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, Yoda said:

He's trying to get a tune of Levein's duds.  Even his chosen no 2 couldn't motivate them beyond one game.

 

Christ, Pep couldn't get these guys to preform.

 

Stendel can only really be judged when he has his own team on the park.

Peps head would explode trying to get a tune out of these duds.

Edited June 8, 2020 by Pasquale for King

[Jambo-Fox]

2 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

I've always been commenting on Levein as someone who has followed his career very closely, as he was one of my favourite players and also one of our better former players turned managers. So I followed what he did at Leicester and D Utd with a lot of interest. Many people commenting on him now seem to be judging his entire career on one 18 month period. 

 

Anyhow, I tried to find the article I read that showed Leicester benefited later from the work he did with young players but just found this forum and can't be arsed looking further.

 

https://www.foxestalk.co.uk/topic/15821-thanks-craig/

 

This is another generally positive article and interesting comments on the type of football he played from Leicester local press reporter who's covered the team for 30 years - https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:wy5AxQtpQhMJ:https://www.scotsman.com/sport/leicester-sacking-said-more-about-boards-fear-craig-leveins-ability-2461130

 

"A lot of Leicester City fans now acknowledge that it was a bit too hasty to remove him at that time. The principles he put forward and the football he played were good. The idea that he was a failure is wrong; he wasn't given a chance to become a success."

 

 

 

 

 

Bill Anderson was the football reporter of the Leicester Mercury for 35 years until his retirement!
 

He was a massive HEARTS fan!

I think he started his career at the Sunday Post!

[Last Laff]

56 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

There was other reasons he left too let’s not rewrite history here. More money and a shot at a bigger team, not a “provincial club like Hearts” are two of the other three reasons.

And my friend, for the full house is the third reason.  And it sums up the guy.  I bet that wasn’t his fault either 👍

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, Last Laff said:

And my friend, for the full house is the third reason.  And it sums up the guy.  I bet that wasn’t his fault either 👍

I was actually thinking how he would’ve explained that to get out of it, seemed to work.

[Last Laff]

13 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I was actually thinking how he would’ve explained that to get out of it, seemed to work.

 

 

[Thomaso]

1 hour ago, jr ewing said:

Goodnight or as they say in Japanese "Oshinawa ".

 

😂😂😂

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Are we done now?

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

2 hours ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Are we done now?

Good idea to draw line under this one and move on in my opinion 

[Thomaso]

2 hours ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Good idea to draw line under this one and move on in my opinion 

Good idea but Mr Levein seems to think differently!

[jr ewing]

38 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

Good idea but Mr Levein seems to think differently!

Imagine what he might have done if there hadn't been a salary cap. 

[Locky]

Tried to read this thread from the podcast upload to the most recent post and gave up quickly. The outrage from some on here.

 

I don't know what people expected him to say? He took responsibility and apologised. Apart from that, he can't say much else, can he? Like any manager or even professional, he was confident in his abilities and even when sacked still had reason to believe he could've turned it round. Show me one manager in the world who hasn't said the same? No one is going to come out and say, 'Aye, I was shite, I just hung on for a wage ken eh?'.

 

I truly believe Levein gave his all like he said he did, and I truly believe he will be hurt by how things ended. Mistakes were made on his part, but things outwith his control certainly did have a knock on affect. I also do believe that we would've avoided bottom had he stayed on, but we've moved on and I'm more than happy with Daniel Stendel in charge.

 

People really need to let go of their outrage at Craig Levein, and perhaps channel it into the authorities who are the ones who have 'relegated' us. Levein didn't leave us bottom, and Levein never called the season early. Said it before and I'll say it again, thanks for all your efforts Craig and I wish it ended so much better, as I'm sure you do too. We've moved on and so have you, good luck in the future and stay healthy.

[Horatio Caine]

2 minutes ago, Locky said:

Tried to read this thread from the podcast upload to the most recent post and gave up quickly. The outrage from some on here.

 

I don't know what people expected him to say? He took responsibility and apologised. Apart from that, he can't say much else, can he? Like any manager or even professional, he was confident in his abilities and even when sacked still had reason to believe he could've turned it round. Show me one manager in the world who hasn't said the same? No one is going to come out and say, 'Aye, I was shite, I just hung on for a wage ken eh?'.

 

I truly believe Levein gave his all like he said he did, and I truly believe he will be hurt by how things ended. Mistakes were made on his part, but things outwith his control certainly did have a knock on affect. I also do believe that we would've avoided bottom had he stayed on, but we've moved on and I'm more than happy with Daniel Stendel in charge.

 

People really need to let go of their outrage at Craig Levein, and perhaps channel it into the authorities who are the ones who have 'relegated' us. Levein didn't leave us bottom, and Levein never called the season early. Said it before and I'll say it again, thanks for all your efforts Craig and I wish it ended so much better, as I'm sure you do too. We've moved on and so have you, good luck in the future and stay healthy.

Well said Locky.  

[Ex member of the SaS]

NOW I understand.According to Levein we played better against " bigger " teams and not so good against " wee " teams. He then goes on to state when we had more of the ball we played poorly.

 

Right, footballers play badly when they have the ball! Obviously I have had this whole football thing wrong.

[Ex member of the SaS]

14 minutes ago, Locky said:

Tried to read this thread from the podcast upload to the most recent post and gave up quickly. The outrage from some on here.

 

I don't know what people expected him to say? He took responsibility and apologised. Apart from that, he can't say much else, can he? Like any manager or even professional, he was confident in his abilities and even when sacked still had reason to believe he could've turned it round. Show me one manager in the world who hasn't said the same? No one is going to come out and say, 'Aye, I was shite, I just hung on for a wage ken eh?'.

 

I truly believe Levein gave his all like he said he did, and I truly believe he will be hurt by how things ended. Mistakes were made on his part, but things outwith his control certainly did have a knock on affect. I also do believe that we would've avoided bottom had he stayed on, but we've moved on and I'm more than happy with Daniel Stendel in charge.

 

People really need to let go of their outrage at Craig Levein, and perhaps channel it into the authorities who are the ones who have 'relegated' us. Levein didn't leave us bottom, and Levein never called the season early. Said it before and I'll say it again, thanks for all your efforts Craig and I wish it ended so much better, as I'm sure you do too. We've moved on and so have you, good luck in the future and stay healthy.

OMG! Trying to whitewash his time, wasting huge amounts of cash on duff players, unable to cope with injuries ( that's part of a manager's job! ) Unable to get players motivated when it was clear we were heading down. Unable to gain the clubs targets and willing to let targets slip with no idea how to fix things. Happy to implement training and tactics that were 30 years out of date. Lying to fans at the AGM's with regard to how he managed to wangle manager and DoF roles. I could go on but this is more than enough reasons to never want him near Hearts ever again.

[Shanks]

No point looking back now, levein is an utter waster and king of the wage thieves.  We need to just draw a line under his shite legacy and just be happy that he is finally away from the club.