SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[John Gentleman]

1 minute ago, Sir Gio said:

That's for Doncaster and his cronies to sort out. 

 

I feel now we have to let it unfold without being an agitator 

True, but I don't think we've given them enough rope yet....

[annushorribilis III]

8 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

Funnily enough I would find it hard to argue that point. 

 

A real muddle, but in truth nobody beyond Hearts will believe different,  Jackson is absolutely correct,  a cynical society will see this as a buy out. 

 

I tend to agree,  unpopular view but a truthful one 

Let them.

The media would rather laugh at Hearts than talk about a potential saviour of Scottish football. 

Hopefully Anderson will be  telling the SPFL Board the brutal facts of the "sponsorship" and if it goes tits up Doncaster will have to explain why it failed & why AB is doing his job for him. 

 

[Flimsy]

2 minutes ago, Byyy The Light said:

Personally I don’t want this fantastic gesture to save lower league clubs coming to fruition. 

Me too, I'm struggling to see the positive side for Hearts and that's all I care about. The only thing I can think is that we secretly hope they decline Mr Anderson's incredible offer and off to court we go. If the lower league clubs are unable to partake in the 2020/21 season, I can only see two outcomes. Hearts are reinstated in the top league as part of an enforced reconstruction or Hearts win enormous legal compensation for being expelled to a league we can't play in. I hope Mr Anderson continues to support Hearts and only Hearts, as the rest of us will for many years to come.

[Byyy The Light]

6 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

Would be more clear cut now to take their relegation and fight for losses. 

 

Whoever's going to suffer,  well we tried to take leadership 

I want root and branch change to the whole of Scottish football.

 

This rescue package just papers over the cracks and keeps the life support switched on. 

[Bickfest]

4 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

 

Unlawful vote.

 

Restriction of Trade.

 

Open-ended compensation claim of £5m for EVERY season we spend in the Championship. To be paid out of TV contracts before distribution of residue to the OF.

Quite likely, but I think it will be either an interdict, to prevent relegation and reverse the effect of the vote, or compensation if we are forced into the championship. In the latter case, it would be highly amusing if the compensation were to be a joint and several liability of the clubs who voted for the SPFL's flawed motion.

[Byyy The Light]

2 minutes ago, Flimsy said:

Me too, I'm struggling to see the positive side for Hearts and that's all I care about. The only thing I can think is that we secretly hope they decline Mr Anderson's incredible offer and off to court we go. If the lower league clubs are unable to partake in the 2020/21 season, I can only see two outcomes. Hearts are reinstated in the top league as part of an enforced reconstruction or Hearts win enormous legal compensation for being expelled to a league we can't play in. I hope Mr Anderson continues to support Hearts and only Hearts, as the rest of us will for many years to come.

Totally agree. 

[tian447]

Keith Jackson should be very very careful about what he is suggesting regarding the funding.  He doesn't explicitly state it and is careful to dance around the word itself, but he is suggesting it is a bribe to keep Hearts in the Premiership.  He makes several suggestions about the reputation and intentions of who would provide any such funding.

 

Messing with someone with resources and contacts such as James Anderson is just incredibly stupid, especially when you make potentially libellous statements in your newspaper column.

 

If I were him, I'd be worried about a letter from a highly respected Law firm landing on his doorstep in the coming days.

[luckydug]

44 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

He’d be off his head to offer SPL teams any support without stings attached.

That's why he hasn't. The offer is to help LOWER league football. 

[tian447]

6 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

I wonder if Dungcaster will want to attach strings to the offer.
We will only accept it if the big boys get some too!

Nothing would surprise me.

 

Doncaster will probably manage to negotiate his way into a funding deal worth 30% of what was originally on the table.

[John Gentleman]

1 minute ago, Flimsy said:

Me too, I'm struggling to see the positive side for Hearts and that's all I care about. The only thing I can think is that we secretly hope they decline Mr Anderson's incredible offer and off to court we go. If the lower league clubs are unable to partake in the 2020/21 season, I can only see two outcomes. Hearts are reinstated in the top league as part of an enforced reconstruction or Hearts win enormous legal compensation for being expelled to a league we can't play in. I hope Mr Anderson continues to support Hearts and only Hearts, as the rest of us will for many years to come.

......along with the other unidentified benefactors, of course.

[Mikey1874]

9 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

That's for Doncaster and his cronies to sort out. 

 

I feel now we have to let it unfold without being an agitator 

 

There are meetings with each league this week to discuss Reconstruction.

 

Guess there will some AoB.

[kingantti1874]

5 minutes ago, Bickfest said:

Quite likely, but I think it will be either an interdict, to prevent relegation and reverse the effect of the vote, or compensation if we are forced into the championship. In the latter case, it would be highly amusing if the compensation were to be a joint and several liability of the clubs who voted for the SPFL's flawed motion.

genuinely I’d prefer compensation, it will materially hurt every club in the country, there will be no debate that the decision to expel us was fundamentally unfair, it will stick in their throat that they have to pay for their decision with a material reduction in their own income, as football will be suspended we can A12 to get rid of some dead wood and use their £5million per season to fund a rebuild, it will avoid costly outgoings with no match day income and  it will dent them the narrative that we were only saved by reconstruction.. 

 

of course - that is tempered by the fact we won’t see football for a wee while which is of course absolutely shite

Edited June 1, 2020 by kingantti1874

[SUTOL]

4 minutes ago, Flimsy said:

Me too, I'm struggling to see the positive side for Hearts and that's all I care about. The only thing I can think is that we secretly hope they decline Mr Anderson's incredible offer and off to court we go. If the lower league clubs are unable to partake in the 2020/21 season, I can only see two outcomes. Hearts are reinstated in the top league as part of an enforced reconstruction or Hearts win enormous legal compensation for being expelled to a league we can't play in. I hope Mr Anderson continues to support Hearts and only Hearts, as the rest of us will for many years to come.

 

It appears that is not all that Mr Anderson cares about. 

 

I'm sure he would also think there should be some form of league reconstruction. 

 

 

People seem to want to tell him what he can or can't spend his money on. I'm sure he's had discussions with Ann and others about the situation. This fund, which is what Ann initially said, is to help all clubs, especially the lower league ones get through the coming couple of seasons, so that after everything hopefully gets back to some sort of normality there will still be local clubs for locals to support throughout the country. 

[graygo]

36 minutes ago, John Gentleman said:

For a start he's not making an 'investment'. It's a philanthropic no-strings attached offer.

So Anderson makes this offer and Jackson insists that it be conditional on Hearts being 'relegated'. Talk about wanting your bread buttered on both sides! You couldn't make this shit up.

 

Exactly. Shouts about there being no strings attached then demands a string is attached.

Arsehole.

[John Gentleman]

Aff tae my bed now, but comforted in the knowledge that we have an abundance of very smart people behind us – even though we don't know what the precise strategy is.

[Flimsy]

1 minute ago, SUTOL said:

 

It appears that is not all that Mr Anderson cares about. 

 

I'm sure he would also think there should be some form of league reconstruction. 

 

 

People seem to want to tell him what he can or can't spend his money on. I'm sure he's had discussions with Ann and others about the situation. This fund, which is what Ann initially said, is to help all clubs, especially the lower league ones get through the coming couple of seasons, so that after everything hopefully gets back to some sort of normality there will still be local clubs for locals to support throughout the country. 

Fair points. I would never tell somebody what to spend their money on. It's more of a hope than anything else. I don't even know if the gentleman is a Hearts supporter.

[OTT]

1 minute ago, tian447 said:

Keith Jackson should be very very careful about what he is suggesting regarding the funding.  He doesn't explicitly state it and is careful to dance around the word itself, but he is suggesting it is a bribe to keep Hearts in the Premiership.  He makes several suggestions about the reputation and intentions of who would provide any such funding.

 

Messing with someone with resources and contacts such as James Anderson is just incredibly stupid, especially when you make potentially libellous statements in your newspaper column.

 

If I were him, I'd be worried about a letter from a highly respected Law firm landing on his doorstep in the coming days.

 

I hope it does tbh.

 

The guy is an unbelievably shitty person. Rather than praise it and laud Budge for managing to find such a good hearted soul he's bending over backwards to ensure Hearts still get ****ed. 

 

I'm thinking of just blocking the Daily Record via Chrome. Make sure the *******s never get another click out me again. 

 

I really think Hearts should be considering their position on allowing continued access of the Daily Record to the club, both on match day and contact with club staff - interviews with players etc. I think the Record have crossed a line with the club through their continual pursuit of the negative and spin. The screenshot of the two tweets regarding the release of players should underline that. They aren't behaving like journalists, so I think the club should then no longer be obligated to treat them like journalists. 

 

I'm all for fair criticism, but what the record are putting out isn't fair criticism. Its vicious and intended to stir up their mob of 'Celtic Da's' to abuse the club. At a certain point you need to start defending your name and reputation, and I think the Record have pushed Hearts into a corner with their constant attacks. Lets not forget the bloody knife just a few weeks ago from their sister paper. Its a rank rotten insitution that should no longer be afforded the respect of being considered journalism. 

[SUTOL]

2 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

genuinely I’d prefer compensation, it will materially hurt every club in the country, there will be no debate that the decision to expel us was fundamentally unfair, it will stick in their throat that they have to pay for their decision with a material reduction in their own income, as football will be suspended we can A12 to get rid of some dead wood and use their £5million per season to fund a rebuild, it will avoid costly outgoings with no match day income and  it will dent them the narrative that we were only saved by reconstruction.. 

 

of course - that is tempered by the fact we won’t see football for a wee while which is of course absolutely shite

 

Not only was it "unfair" it was also in breach of Company Law, so therefore unlawful and the result should not apply. 

 

 

Now it might be a case of what's done is done, and if the vote was ruled null and void, that any subsequent re-vote correctly carried out would go against us that we would not have gained anything material from the court case. We would still be in the Champ and still looking for compensation.

 

Therefore I suspect we may just pursue the compensation route. 

[buzzbomb]

4 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

genuinely I’d prefer compensation, it will materially hurt every club in the country, there will be no debate that the decision to expel us was fundamentally unfair, it will stick in their throat that they have to pay for their decision with a material reduction in their own income, as football will be suspended we can A12 to get rid of some dead wood and use their £5million per season to fund a rebuild, it will avoid costly outgoings with no match day income and  it will dent them the narrative that we were only saved by reconstruction.. 

 

of course - that is tempered by the fact we won’t see football for a wee while which is of course absolutely shite

There is also the possibility that the top league starts, there is a covid spike and another lockdown, maybe with no furlough. What state will the teams be in then..

[sac]

35 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Good. **** the press. Old Firm sycophants. None more so than Keith Jackson. Money on the table to help the lower leagues and his opinion on that is that Hearts should be relegated. Not that it’s a lifeline which will save clubs from extinction or that it could offer the chance for the whole of Scottish football to play this year. Naw, his overriding feeling on all this is hearts should be relegated. What an absolute fannie. . 

You can bet it will be spun to make it look like we are bankrupting clubs to get compo, when we have wealthy contributors who could ease our financial suffering.

[SE16 3LN]

40 minutes ago, Deevers said:

It’s what makes all of the guff in the red tops so exasperating. It’s taken Ann Budge to find some sort if a salvation for the game and all these cretins can do is knock it. Really with that sort of attitude the sooner things collapse here the better.  Building things a fresh would be better than trying to cobble together anything to save this morally corrupt organisation.

I kind of agree, if you can't get them to change now then maybe a new organisation rising from the wreckage is the only way forward...Year Zero. 

[GinRummy]

3 minutes ago, sac said:

You can bet it will be spun to make it look like we are bankrupting clubs to get compo, when we have wealthy contributors who could ease our financial suffering.

Sounds about right. 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Feeling even more belligerent now. Come on Budge! Let's go to war!

[Bickfest]

7 minutes ago, sac said:

You can bet it will be spun to make it look like we are bankrupting clubs to get compo, when we have wealthy contributors who could ease our financial suffering.

That, I think, is the point of "outing" James Anderson and making it clear he has no direct interest in Hearts. They (the SPFL) now can't use that defence in court (ie that Hearts have unidentified benefactors who could/should mitigate any losses from relegation).

 

I believe that everything AB and the club has done has been very carefully choreographed.

 

Edited June 1, 2020 by Bickfest

[luckydug]

27 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

Funnily enough I would find it hard to argue that point. 

 

A real muddle, but in truth nobody beyond Hearts will believe different,  Jackson is absolutely correct,  a cynical society will see this as a buy out. 

 

I tend to agree,  unpopular view but a truthful one 

I still believe the offer is intended to make sure a second tier can operate. 

There are teams in the Premier who will be unable to play without help and will not be able to access help. 

If they were to drop down a division they would qualify for help. 

The SPFL board are going to have to take a roll call of who can afford to play this season. Especially if their bosses at CP want a fixture list organized. 

[Hagar the Horrible]

We have a sport where the leadership can see a mushroom cloud in the distance and AB has a plan to get us all into the bunkers. Most clubs think it would be better to stare at the blinding blast rather than support the Hearts model? Within five seconds of Hearts offering a sniff of hope in the form of a “mysterious benefactor”. He outs the benefactor…WTF!  The vitriolic hatred from the SMSM in the validity and motives of said Hearts benefactor and everything HEARTS is astonishing and I hope JA can see that?

 

It’s not my money and JA can spend his how he likes, but apart from helping us out where it is greatly appreciated, please keep us in mind and THANK YOU! Word of advice… Donkey now wants to take over the discussions of how to get his hands on this freeeee money?  With his ineptitude He will talk you down from £10m to 10 bob?  If it was my money, I would be saying it is conditional that Donkey walks.  Not unreasonable surely!

 

The pay-out Donkey was quick to rush through would have been better used lighting up a Havana cigar!  But how dare Hearts be part of the solution when he is part of the precipitate?

 

But for the record even if it was a huge bribe, is that any worse than the 5WA or the rush to give Celtic their tainted title? Even to Shaft Falkirk to keep Abersheep up? The irony is lost that Hearts now have the power to kill off as many clubs as possible via the courts, and the alternative is to accept a generous helping hand to those less fortunate than ourselves. History is written by the victor.

[Deevers]

11 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Feeling even more belligerent now. Come on Budge! Let's go to war!

As am I. This is the only way forward now. Fed up of the deceit, the false promises, the inaction and now the vitriol. Let’s give the ******* something to really moan about. I look forward to the headless chicken routine we get from most of the clubs when we get to court, and  the ramifications hit home 

Edited June 1, 2020 by Deevers

[Jambo66]

4 minutes ago, SUTOL said:

 

Not only was it "unfair" it was also in breach of Company Law, so therefore unlawful and the result should not apply. 

 

 

Now it might be a case of what's done is done, and if the vote was ruled null and void, that any subsequent re-vote correctly carried out would go against us that we would not have gained anything material from the court case. We would still be in the Champ and still looking for compensation.

 

Therefore I suspect we may just pursue the compensation route. 

This is why we pursue both if it goes to court. The first argument is that the first vote actually rejected the resolution, so everything that follows from that vote is essentially voidable.

 

The second argument is that even if it were not rejected, the premise was against the rules of both the SPFL and natural justice. In other words, it is not open to the SPFL to expel teams in this way.

 

The third argument if either of the first 2 fails is that we should be compensated.

 

As for there being "no strings attached", I can see the argument that there are effectively some strings attached to the offer of financial support. If we go to court and are successful in obtaining compensation, that will be payable by the member clubs of the SPFL. In other words, the financial support offered to the lower leagues will be swallowed up in paying us compensation. On the other hand, if the clubs vote to reconstruct...

 

I do wonder if minds will be a little more concentrated this week.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

2 minutes ago, luckydug said:

I still believe the offer is intended to make sure a second tier can operate. 

There are teams in the Premier who will be unable to play without help and will not be able to access help. 

If they were to drop down a division they would qualify for help. 

The SPFL board are going to have to take a roll call of who can afford to play this season. Especially if their bosses at CP want a fixture list organized. 

I would have thought so too, not sure that penny has dropped around the country 

[Unknown user]

5 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Feeling even more belligerent now. Come on Budge! Let's go to war!

 

Me too, I feel like we're negotiating with our bully when we should be rolling up our sleeves

[Steve_Jersey_HMFC]

22 minutes ago, tian447 said:

Keith Jackson should be very very careful about what he is suggesting regarding the funding.  He doesn't explicitly state it and is careful to dance around the word itself, but he is suggesting it is a bribe to keep Hearts in the Premiership.  He makes several suggestions about the reputation and intentions of who would provide any such funding.

 

 

 

Im guessing he wasn't shouting from the rooftops about the prize money advance being conditional on voting through Celtic's tainted title etc

[Ethan Hunt]

10 minutes ago, SUTOL said:

 

It appears that is not all that Mr Anderson cares about. 

 

I'm sure he would also think there should be some form of league reconstruction. 

 

 

People seem to want to tell him what he can or can't spend his money on. I'm sure he's had discussions with Ann and others about the situation. This fund, which is what Ann initially said, is to help all clubs, especially the lower league ones get through the coming couple of seasons, so that after everything hopefully gets back to some sort of normality there will still be local clubs for locals to support throughout the country. 

Philanthropists, by their very nature, want to give help to people or persons they see as worthy causes. On a lot of occasions it is to help people who cannot help themselves, or to provide further assistance to help people achieve their full potential. A lot of their thinking revolves around fairness. If the world was fairer would this person or people have achieved this or that. If Mr Anderson (thank you for your help thus far) sees the Hearts, Partick Thistle, Stranraer, situation as unfair - and I’m sure he’ll have had many chats with Ann Budge telling him that it is - he will want that unfairness rectified one way or another.

 

In addition, and not aimed at you, I’ll keep banging this drum until someone says something to change it, at no point did AB say the offer of financial help was “no strings attached” or “without condition”. She has never, to my knowledge, said that. Her original paper makes it clear, Hearts have benefactors, they are helping us, they are willing to share that help with other lower league clubs.

 

Hearts fans continuing to use the ‘no strings attached’ narrative only damages and discredits AB and Hearts. It was said by Dick Gordon and Brian McLaughlin, not AB.

 

[j1964m]

It will not be hearts who are killing  other clubs with court action its the clubs chairmen or women and the SPFL who are against it 

[millerjames398]

1 hour ago, Rudi5kaceldream1ng said:

Our hand is slowly being revealed here and it’s not a hand you want to mess with.

 

 

The fist of gorgie...🇱🇻

[SUTOL]

1 minute ago, Ethan Hunt said:

 

Hearts fans continuing to use the ‘no strings attached’ narrative only damages and discredits AB and Hearts. It was said by Dick Gordon and Brian McLaughlin, not AB.

 

 

 

As I've said a couple of times now, it was Brian Mc that first said "no strings attached". It was his "understanding" that there were "no strings attached" to this offer of money and Hearts place in the Premiership.

 

That was in reply to ask if it was conditional on Hearts being in the Prem. 

 

 

[Back to 2005]

10 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Me too, I feel like we're negotiating with our bully when we should be rolling up our sleeves

It's time to lace the boots up...

[Midloth_Iain]

1 hour ago, jonnothejambo said:

 

 

Here's some dosh, Leeeaaaaane. Now away tae Moss Bros and buy yirsel a new tin flute, coz yer a feckin paraffin. 

 

 

[jdl2002]

2 minutes ago, Ethan Hunt said:

in addition, and not aimed at you, I’ll keep banging this drum until someone says something to change it, at no point did AB say the offer of financial help was “no strings attached” or “without condition”. She has never, to my knowledge, said that. Her original paper makes it clear, Hearts have benefactors, they are helping us, they are willing to share that help with other lower league clubs.

 

Hearts fans continuing to use the ‘no strings attached’ narrative only damages and discredits AB and Hearts. It was said by Dick Gordon and Brian McLaughlin, not AB.

 

 

I agree that she didn't say it was unconditional on Sportsound. But there was something about the way the Slimey Doncaster responded by email "I am delighted to have heard Ann's comments on the radio this afternoon that there are, in fact, no conditions attached to this money" that would perhaps indicate that she may have told him there were, (and hopefully there are), conditions attached. No?

[jdl2002]

3 minutes ago, SUTOL said:

 

 

As I've said a couple of times now, it was Brian Mc that first said "no strings attached". It was his "understanding" that there were "no strings attached" to this offer of money and Hearts place in the Premiership.

 

That was in reply to ask if it was conditional on Hearts being in the Prem. 

 

 

Agreed, and how many times has he been wrong in his assumptions recently. I've only got two hands and feet so i cant give a definite answer but you get my drift.

[sac]

17 minutes ago, Bickfest said:

That, I think, is the point of "outing" James Anderson and making it clear he has no direct interest in Hearts. They (the SPFL) now can't use that defence in court (ie that Hearts have unidentified benefactors who could/should mitigate any losses from relegation).

 

I believe that everything AB and the club has done has been very carefully choreographed.

 

Let’s hope so

[Musemic]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52881608

 

All 42 clubs? 

 

Whilst Celtic sit on their umpteen million £ ???

[gashauskis9]

So James Anderson giving the wee shitey clubs money to then hand back to us in compo.  Nice one 👍

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

9 minutes ago, Jambo66 said:

This is why we pursue both if it goes to court. The first argument is that the first vote actually rejected the resolution, so everything that follows from that vote is essentially voidable.

 

The second argument is that even if it were not rejected, the premise was against the rules of both the SPFL and natural justice. In other words, it is not open to the SPFL to expel teams in this way.

 

The third argument if either of the first 2 fails is that we should be compensated.

 

As for there being "no strings attached", I can see the argument that there are effectively some strings attached to the offer of financial support. If we go to court and are successful in obtaining compensation, that will be payable by the member clubs of the SPFL. In other words, the financial support offered to the lower leagues will be swallowed up in paying us compensation. On the other hand, if the clubs vote to reconstruct...

 

I do wonder if minds will be a little more concentrated this week.

Not sure they will be concentrating 66.

 

Is it heads buried in sand, sheer determination to see Hearts be punished or just plain stupidity and ignorance. 

 

We are not dealing with one business but 41 other businesses acting as one,  and there appears little appetite to change course. 

 

How do you get collaborations in this League I don't know 

[Rudi51]

[Deevers]

2 minutes ago, Musemic said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52881608

 

All 42 clubs? 

 

Whilst Celtic sit on their umpteen million £ ???

I hope not. If that’s the case he’s being taken for a mug.

[Mikey1874]

[Jambo66]

2 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

Not sure they will be concentrating 66.

 

Is it heads buried in sand, sheer determination to see Hearts be punished or just plain stupidity and ignorance. 

 

We are not dealing with one business but 41 other businesses acting as one,  and there appears little appetite to change course. 

 

How do you get collaborations in this League I don't know 

The same way it has always been - money.

[Rods]

I am furious that is says 42 clubs.

 

I would imagine Hibs, St Mirren etc will be refusing this money on sporting grounds.

 

 

[Norm]

3 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

When Rangers went bust the weegie media urged every rule in the book should be broken to keep them (or rather their successor)  in the same position as they were before they went bust and ceased to exist, or failing that under protest in a slightly worse position of being "relegated" (ie inserted  against the rules into a league as near the top league as possible). Even when the rules were blatantly broken to allow them into the leagues rather than starting from scratch the media continued to whinge endlessly about their treatment and the damage it was doing to Scottish football. Yet the media cheers as rules are made up to demote the third biggest team and potentially threaten its existence.

Scottish Football is increasingly looking like a club I'd rather Hearts didn't belong to.

Yup. I'd be happy to play in the Isthmain League 2 North or whatever the **** it is than be part of the same organisation as these arseholes. 

[John Findlay]

2 hours ago, EIEIO said:

Shame that Jackson didn't use the phrase off the radar wealth!

That's only reserved for people that buy a football club for a pound.