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SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )


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NaturalOrder74

Unbelievable that prick Doncaster’s sitting in a half a million salary whilst all the clubs who he’s meant to serve are sitting throwing cash about into financial ruin because he’s not capable of doing his job properly

 

a possible outcome of all this is forced reconstruction that could have been processed at stage one but every clubs left worse off financially as a result, the early payments of the initial vote scam is flushed away already and he’s sitting getting paid an absolute fortune 

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south morocco
2 minutes ago, Locky said:

Option 3 is the answer to all the SPFL's prayers in making this all just disappear. Of course compo would be great for the club, but ultimately all I want is justice to be served, and justice is preserving our top flight status. We all know the clubs (the only club who sadly matter in the eyes of many) won't opt for option 1 at all, nor can they afford option 2.

 

There is only 2 potential outcomes here for me. Either our case is completely dismissed, which I personally can't see, or option 3 has to be pushed through. There would be some creases to iron out if option 3 goes ahead, but ultimately it could be worked out. 

Is it not the tribunal who will decide what course of action to take, not the spfl?

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SectionDJambo
1 hour ago, graygo said:

 

This keeps getting said but it's just not true, this is a requirement under the SFA arbitration rules.

Happy to be corrected.
So the thing that we hope is going to win the day, over the SPFL, is that the documents and records will be perused by the panel of 3, which if I read correctly, seemed to be a concern for the SPFL QC.

Other that that, this arbitration will be as would have been done by the SFA in the first place, without the need for the court case. 

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south morocco
1 minute ago, NaturalOrder74 said:

Unbelievable that prick Doncaster’s sitting in a half a million salary whilst all the clubs who he’s meant to serve are sitting throwing cash about into financial ruin because he’s not capable of doing his job properly

 

a possible outcome of all this is forced reconstruction that could have been processed at stage one but every clubs left worse off financially as a result, the early payments of the initial vote scam is flushed away already and he’s sitting getting paid an absolute fortune 

A lot has been said about his salary but it must have been rubber stamped. Who would be setting this? Maybe something else needing addressed

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53 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Small point but they can call the vote as soon as they have the required number in favour, no need to wait the 28 days.

Yes good point forgot about that but still tight in time for 1st August which may not matter as Scottish government has still to agree

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49 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

When are their fixtures due to start? 

 

Not sure but I read this in an article and a spokesperson for Beveren said this, quote.

 

We found it very odd that the fixtures were already released while legal proceedings were still under way.

 

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Spellczech
4 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

Happy to be corrected.
So the thing that we hope is going to win the day, over the SPFL, is that the documents and records will be perused by the panel of 3, which if I read correctly, seemed to be a concern for the SPFL QC.

Other that that, this arbitration will be as would have been done by the SFA in the first place, without the need for the court case. 

The court case secured us access to the documents. If we'd gone direct to the SFA there is no way our lawyers would have got to see them. Contrary to what the media said, Hearts & Thistle did not "lose the court case", they got exactly what they wanted, agreement that this was a Company Law case not a "footballing matter",  access to all information, and a fair setting for the hearing...Only thing we don't get is that it is held behind closed doors rather than in a public court.

 

Personally I'd rather the lawyers got to see the documents if that was the cost of us all getting to see the hearing...

Edited by Spellczech
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Clerry Jambo
Scotland moves to Phase 3 of lockdown: Restricted numbers of fans may be allowed inside stadiums (with distancing) but not before 31 July. Three households can meet indoors from 10 July (with distancing, 8 people max). Pubs, restaurants, hairdressers to open indoors from 15 July.
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south morocco
3 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

The court case secured us access to the documents. If we'd gone direct to the SFA there is no way our lawyers would have got to see them. Contrary to what the media said, Hearts & Thistle did not "lose the court case", they got exactly what they wanted, agreement that this was a Company Law case not a "footballing matter",  access to all information, and a fair setting for the hearing...Only thing we don't get is that it is held behind closed doors rather than in a public court.

 

Personally I'd rather the lawyers got to see the documents if that was the cost of us all getting to see the hearing...

Did Lord Clark not set a different criteria regarding tribunal members than normal for this case or have I got that wrong ?

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4 minutes ago, south morocco said:

Is it not the tribunal who will decide what course of action to take, not the spfl?

Yes, but if the SPFL offered to push it through then I guess we'd just drop our case? I guess the option to settle it of court is there just like any other case, obviously in this instance, it's not just a financial settlement we'd settle for.

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1 minute ago, south morocco said:

Did Lord Clark not set a different criteria regarding tribunal members than normal for this case or have I got that wrong ?

 

It's not a tribunal though it's Arbitration with a panel of three Legal People with minimum of 10 years leagl experience.

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SectionDJambo
8 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

The court case secured us access to the documents. If we'd gone direct to the SFA there is no way our lawyers would have got to see them. Contrary to what the media said, Hearts & Thistle did not "lose the court case", they got exactly what they wanted, agreement that this was a Company Law case not a "footballing matter",  access to all information, and a fair setting for the hearing...Only thing we don't get is that it is held behind closed doors rather than in a public court.

 

Personally I'd rather the lawyers got to see the documents if that was the cost of us all getting to see the hearing...

Thanks for clarifying that for me.

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8 minutes ago, Taffin said:

I still don't get why they didn't just finish the league.

They were concerned about the financial impact on the new Sky deal above all else if the new season didn't start in 1 August. 

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Spellczech
1 minute ago, south morocco said:

Did Lord Clark not set a different criteria regarding tribunal members than normal for this case or have I got that wrong ?

I believe he made reference to the qualifications of the people to be on the panel as the SPFL lawyer first said the list is all eminently qualified people - 50 of them???. Basically, he said that if I am not to hear this case myself, I expect it to be done by people with the requisite knowledge and experience, ie not some Mickey Mouse Kangaroo court of ex-footballers....

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south morocco
2 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

It's not a tribunal though it's Arbitration with a panel of three Legal People with minimum of 10 years leagl experience.

Ok wrong words but I’m sure this was set by the judge and different to the usual process?

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south morocco
Just now, Spellczech said:

I believe he made reference to the qualifications of the people to be on the panel as the SPFL lawyer first said the list is all eminently qualified people - 50 of them???. Basically, he said that if I am not to hear this case myself, I expect it to be done by people with the requisite knowledge and experience, ie not some Mickey Mouse Kangaroo court of ex-footballers....

That’s what I thought thanks 

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I wonder how many of the documents we would like to see have actually been mislaid. Fought we will find anything incriminating. Our big hope will be the time lines of the DU dee vote. As most of the conversations were verbal and therefore untraceable. Phone records may show time and duration of calls but not content. 

Hope I am wrong. 

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4 minutes ago, Taffin said:

I still don't get why they didn't just finish the league.

 

People will argue that league could not be finished before the start of the new season. However the solution to that would be finish last season, then delay and cut short next season with agreement with all teams.   

 

Or they would ague that the Scottish government have still not allowed football games to go ahead yet. However the question of playing professional football was never asked to Scottish government at the time.  There is no reason why we could not of requested to play professional football and of followed what England and other EU countries proved was possible.  

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Diadora Van Basten

So last week the SPFL were advising that they could get arbitration done. Now a week later nothing has happened. Plus the Calpol 3 QC who takes a week to read a piece of paper is going to attend.

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2 minutes ago, I.T.K said:

 

People will argue that league could not be finished before the start of the new season. However the solution to that would be finish last season, then delay and cut short next season with agreement with all teams.   

 

Or they would ague that the Scottish government have still not allowed football games to go ahead yet. However the question of playing professional football was never asked to Scottish government at the time.  There is no reason why we could not of requested to play professional football and of followed what England and other EU countries proved was possible.  

 Worth remembering that Neil Doncaster was a member of Scottish Football's Joint Response Group, which made recommendations to the Scottish Government about such matters.

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frankblack
6 minutes ago, 5-1Jambo said:

I wonder how many of the documents we would like to see have actually been mislaid. Fought we will find anything incriminating. Our big hope will be the time lines of the DU dee vote. As most of the conversations were verbal and therefore untraceable. Phone records may show time and duration of calls but not content. 

Hope I am wrong. 

 

Been discussed before.  I think others sympathetic to our cause have copies so can hand them over and those responsible for "mislaying" documents may find themselves in bother with the judge who ordered their release.

 

We couldn't legally use those documents without the judge ordering their release.

Edited by frankblack
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David Black
7 minutes ago, Poseidon said:

They were concerned about the financial impact on the new Sky deal above all else if the new season didn't start in 1 August. 

Change "They" for "Neil Doncaster". If there was a delay to the new season starting om 1st Aug. his £90000 bonus would be up in the air. That was the reason this was pushed through so quickly, more so in my opinion than awarding Celtic the title. 

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bigsuperslim1874
Just now, Diadora Van Basten said:

So last week the SPFL were advising that they could get arbitration done. Now a week later nothing has happened. Plus the Calpol 3 QC who takes a week to read a piece of paper is going to attend.

How do we know nothing has happened? I thought it looked ready to begin in earnest on Monday/Tues of next week (with everyone in place)?

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Spellczech
4 minutes ago, 5-1Jambo said:

I wonder how many of the documents we would like to see have actually been mislaid. Fought we will find anything incriminating. Our big hope will be the time lines of the DU dee vote. As most of the conversations were verbal and therefore untraceable. Phone records may show time and duration of calls but not content. 

Hope I am wrong. 

Rangers fans seem to think Dundee were offered glamour pre-season friendlies but I suspect this is just their conspiracy theorists at work. I'm pretty sure Nelms will be called to give evidence. Hopefully it is in person rather than a written statement...If there was any shenanigans such as Celtic offering to loan them players then hopefully this will come out, even if not publicly...

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2 minutes ago, Diadora Van Basten said:

So last week the SPFL were advising that they could get arbitration done. Now a week later nothing has happened. Plus the Calpol 3 QC who takes a week to read a piece of paper is going to attend.

They assured the judge. They'll have to get it done. Hearts and Partick will be happy to see them faff about because it'll just go back to the CoS if we look like time is going to run out. 🤷

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Rick Sanchez
1 minute ago, Diadora Van Basten said:

So last week the SPFL were advising that they could get arbitration done. Now a week later nothing has happened. Plus the Calpol 3 QC who takes a week to read a piece of paper is going to attend.

 

I hope it drags out so long that the season starts, it's taken back to Lord Clark who takes a dim view of it and awards the full 10m.

 

I'm starting not to bother about being in the championship. It's not going to be a normal season anyway. So 8m and a few clubs bust is a result for me.

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27 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

Happy to be corrected.
So the thing that we hope is going to win the day, over the SPFL, is that the documents and records will be perused by the panel of 3, which if I read correctly, seemed to be a concern for the SPFL QC.

Other that that, this arbitration will be as would have been done by the SFA in the first place, without the need for the court case. 

 

Well, yes.

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17 minutes ago, Locky said:

Yes, but if the SPFL offered to push it through then I guess we'd just drop our case? I guess the option to settle it of court is there just like any other case, obviously in this instance, it's not just a financial settlement we'd settle for.

We should only drop the case if the member clubs agree that we acted correctly and therefore should recover all of our costs inluding the CoS. It would be ridiculous if we are financially penalised for their incomptence.

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davemclaren
3 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Rangers fans seem to think Dundee were offered glamour pre-season friendlies but I suspect this is just their conspiracy theorists at work. I'm pretty sure Nelms will be called to give evidence. Hopefully it is in person rather than a written statement...If there was any shenanigans such as Celtic offering to loan them players then hopefully this will come out, even if not publicly...

It will come out if and when it happens. 

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1 minute ago, Rick Sanchez said:

 

I hope it drags out so long that the season starts, it's taken back to Lord Clark who takes a dim view of it and awards the full 10m.

 

I'm starting not to bother about being in the championship. It's not going to be a normal season anyway. So 8m and a few clubs bust is a result for me.

Getting our money then seeing a couple of teams in the Premiership go to the wall would be very pleasing given the circumstances.

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27 minutes ago, Jambo Mac said:

Yes good point forgot about that but still tight in time for 1st August which may not matter as Scottish government has still to agree

 

I thought the Scottish government had already given the go ahead. 🥺 

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How long could arbitration take? If Arbitration runs into the end of the month, then surely an interdict becomes a necessity?

 

Considering Borelands filibustering throughout the court of session, it wouldn't surprise me if they take as long as they can to get this in front of the panel  

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6 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Rangers fans seem to think Dundee were offered glamour pre-season friendlies but I suspect this is just their conspiracy theorists at work. I'm pretty sure Nelms will be called to give evidence. Hopefully it is in person rather than a written statement...If there was any shenanigans such as Celtic offering to loan them players then hopefully this will come out, even if not publicly...

Nelms said they were promised pre season friendlies against big hitters (ie Celtic).

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Allowayjambo1874
19 minutes ago, Taffin said:

I still don't get why they didn't just finish the league.


I think it was all about the sky contract for the upcoming season. I think it stipulates start of season from 1st August.  As they were being told at one point there may be no football before then they decided to rush into a decision. This sky deal is apparently all that matters (ND on 90k bonus when it comes in, just saying like) That’s kind of the official line and I think that’s the narrative coming from SPFL.

 

ND’s assertion that cash couldn’t be released to clubs unless they declared the season over in April (when clubs were on their knees) was absolute bull. And the club that benefitted most from that decision? You got it!! 
 

The fact that 8 football matches could have been squeezed into 3-4 weeks doesn’t seem to have mattered, they just had to decide in April what to do. 🤡 

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Rick Sanchez
1 minute ago, EIEIO said:

Nelms said they were promised pre season friendlies against big hitters (ie Celtic).

 

Yep, hope he's asked to expand on who and why when he's called to take the stand.

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23 minutes ago, south morocco said:

Did Lord Clark not set a different criteria regarding tribunal members than normal for this case or have I got that wrong ?

 

21 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

It's not a tribunal though it's Arbitration with a panel of three Legal People with minimum of 10 years leagl experience.

 

Lord Clark did not change the criteria for the arbitration panel, he simply pointed out what it is.

There is no requirement for a panel of three legal people with minimum of 10 years legal experience other than the chairperson.

I don't know how many times this needs pointed out.

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2 minutes ago, EIEIO said:

Nelms said they were promised pre season friendlies against big hitters (ie Celtic).

What - this season?  When there were never going to be crowds in?

 

Or was it something to put in the bank for the future?  How easily they were bought off.

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Allowayjambo1874
9 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Rangers fans seem to think Dundee were offered glamour pre-season friendlies but I suspect this is just their conspiracy theorists at work. I'm pretty sure Nelms will be called to give evidence. Hopefully it is in person rather than a written statement...If there was any shenanigans such as Celtic offering to loan them players then hopefully this will come out, even if not publicly...


I don’t think Dundee were promised glamour friendlies I think Nelmes contacted the secretary who had emailed the vote and said something like withdraw it as some big hitters have been in touch and we can make it work to our advantage or something like that. Happy to be proven wrong though, it feels like a lifetime ago! 

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Spellczech
Just now, OTT said:

How long could arbitration take? If Arbitration runs into the end of the month, then surely an interdict becomes a necessity?

 

Considering Borelands filibustering throughout the court of session, it wouldn't surprise me if they take as long as they can to get this in front of the panel  

Not sure he will get the chance to talk much at the panel...the panel is now Hearts & Thistle v SPFL Board. I suspect the promoted clubs interest is now totally tied up with the SPFL board's...Essentially they are spending 100k to continue to pretend that this is members v members, even though that ship has sailed - they just have to continue to pretend that they've not given up, as there is a risk that if there is no relegation then there should also be no promotion... 

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hughesie27
7 minutes ago, EIEIO said:

Nelms said they were promised pre season friendlies against big hitters (ie Celtic).

Got a quote for that? Never heard it before. Sounds more like one of those myths that becomes fact if enough people repeat it.

What good would a preseason friendly do for a club that can't sell tickets for it?

Edited by hughesie27
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43 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

I'm not sure if the panel will rule on reinstatement v compensation. I think this decision will be returned to the SPFL for a vote. I think the panel will only determine if the decision to relegate Hearts and Thistle in a curtailed season on the basis in which it was carried out was unfair and prejudicial, and will set an amount of compensation for if the SPFL go that route. If it was prejudicial against these member clubs then the SPFL will have to decide whether to reinstate or pay compensation. 

You might be right. However I’d find that a bit odd. The panel rule that the SPFL were unfair and prejudicial in relegating Hearts BUT then allow the guilty party (SPFL) to determine their own remedy / sentence! 
 

But then of course the panel might allow the wronged party’s to select the resolution! And Hearts decide that they will take both reinstatement and compensation!

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Ethan Hunt
8 minutes ago, EIEIO said:

Nelms said they were promised pre season friendlies against big hitters (ie Celtic).

 

55F4EC92-4BCF-4E9B-829E-F4602F3B36BC.jpeg

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2AB1059F-2202-4F89-B281-266A24DE569C.jpeg

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Fitba' broke my Heart

 

41 minutes ago, NaturalOrder74 said:

Unbelievable that prick Doncaster’s sitting in a half a million salary whilst all the clubs who he’s meant to serve are sitting throwing cash about into financial ruin because he’s not capable of doing his job properly

 

a possible outcome of all this is forced reconstruction that could have been processed at stage one but every clubs left worse off financially as a result, the early payments of the initial vote scam is flushed away already and he’s sitting getting paid an absolute fortune 

39 minutes ago, south morocco said:

A lot has been said about his salary but it must have been rubber stamped. Who would be setting this? Maybe something else needing addressed

Do not forget, as we all heard many times through out the banking crisis.

You have to pay the best salaries to attract the best people.

SPFL is no different, imagine what kind of palaver we would all be in if the above statement were false. 

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11 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

I thought the Scottish government had already given the go ahead. 🥺 

 

Sport has been allowed but seems Government still need to agree to Premiership starting.

 

Today's statement suggested that could be 31 July or thereabouts but still to be decided. 

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Spellczech
14 minutes ago, Rick Sanchez said:

 

I hope it drags out so long that the season starts, it's taken back to Lord Clark who takes a dim view of it and awards the full 10m.

 

I'm starting not to bother about being in the championship. It's not going to be a normal season anyway. So 8m and a few clubs bust is a result for me.

I don't want clubs to go bust. There is a difference between self-seeking chairmen/boards and the clubs. All clubs have times when they are led by people who don't represent the fans or cut off their nose to spite their face.

 

I want fans to see that their chairman acted reprehensibly and to topple them...I'm quite impressed by the reaction of Dundee fans to Nelm's activities TBH...

 

 

 

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Boyces beard

Question: Are Waasland-Beveren responsible for the global pandemic that is Covid-19

Answer: No

 

Summary: So no clubs will be punished just as no clubs will be rewarded in such a scenario.

 

Im hoping thats how simple it was for the Court Of Arbitration for Sport in Belgium to make a decision.

 

I know the circumstances differ but surely as we are not responsible for what has happened, the SPFL are not acting in the best interest of its member clubs and are there for showing undue prejudice by punishing three member clubs while rewarding another three member clubs all of whom are members of that very same organisation. It's hard to believe they can get away with this unless it is indeed Hearts, Partick and Stranraer that are responsible for the Covid-19 pandemic.

Edited by jambo3tevie
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Ethan Hunt
6 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

Got a quote for that? Never heard it before. Sounds more like one of those myths that becomes fact if enough people repeat it.

What good would a preseason friendly do for a club that can't sell tickets for it?

Rangers dossier

 

 

1BE2A92F-1AB7-412F-B8A0-98773E5E46BD.jpeg

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For reference here's the bit in Lord Clark's report about the make up of the panel.

 

[20] In terms of the Article 99.19 of the SFA’s articles of association, the arbitral tribunal (“the Tribunal”) may consist of three arbitrators. One of the provisions states that, if so, each party shall nominate an individual from the Tribunal Candidate List as its arbitrator, and the two arbitrators so appointed shall appoint a third arbitrator who shall be or has been a solicitor or advocate or member of the judiciary (Sheriff Court or Court of Session) of not less than 10 years’ standing (including cumulatively in a combination of the said functions) 
and who shall act as chairman of the Tribunal (“the Tribunal Chairman”). Accordingly, theSFA will not judge the issue in the arbitration. The independent arbitral tribunal will be presided over by an experienced lawyer or member of the judiciary. The arbitral tribunal is able to require evidence from witnesses and if required, in terms of rule 45 of the Scottish Arbitration Rules, the court can make appropriate orders in that regard.

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  • jkbmod 9 changed the title to SPFL declare league (2019/20) due to Covid (Arbitration panel upholds SPFL decision )
  • davemclaren changed the title to SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

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