Should Hearts take legal action for being expelled from the top flight?

[mitch41]

27 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

Not sure we will win the day but it will at least guarantee some pride

Let’s get into these puppets. We are a proud club and we should never let anybody walk all over us.

[Unknown user]

3 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

Let’s get into these puppets. We are a proud club and we should never let anybody walk all over us.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

10 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

As others have said above the fact that Doncaster is almost pleading that legal action would negatively impact other clubs makes me even more desperate that we pursue it down every legal avenue available.

 

i hope it holdS the whole thing up long enough to really shaft a few of them.  I’m feeling proper vindictive now let’s cause as much pain as we can.  

They seem desperate,  even stupidly believing they can return in July. 

 

Sturgeon not keen at all. 

 

HSE whistle blowers needed to delay the thing. 

 

Nothing worse than being patronised,  always feel that is a great breeding ground for spite

[jr ewing]

2 hours ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

Going to an employment tribunal is free of charge to the complainant.

You get what you've paid for. 

[GinRummy]

42 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

As others have said above the fact that Doncaster is almost pleading that legal action would negatively impact other clubs makes me even more desperate that we pursue it down every legal avenue available.

 

i hope it holdS the whole thing up long enough to really shaft a few of them.  I’m feeling proper vindictive now let’s cause as much pain as we can.  

The time to avoid legal action was today. Doncaster encouraged clubs to reject the inquiry so legal action is now the only option for aggrieved clubs. 

[Thomaso]

22 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

You get what you've paid for. 

how do you mean?

[22games nro]

Quite simply I think it goes one of two ways.

 

1. Decides not to go down the legal route for whatever reason and in my opinion that will be the last straw for many and I genuinely feel She won’t ever recover from a decision like that.

 

2. Starts legal proceedings, again I’d say for decent compensation because we won’t overturn the expulsion, then she galvanises the very vast majority of the fans, indeed I’m sure she will be surprised just how many donations would be made to support the club with this via a type of crowdfunding via FOH or something like that.

Even if this fails at least we fought for what we think is morally correct and we didn’t just roll over and get our belly tickled.

[Pans Jambo]

6 minutes ago, 22games nro said:

Quite simply I think it goes one of two ways.

 

1. Decides not to go down the legal route for whatever reason and in my opinion that will be the last straw for many and I genuinely feel She won’t ever recover from a decision like that.

 

2. Starts legal proceedings, again I’d say for decent compensation because we won’t overturn the expulsion, then she galvanises the very vast majority of the fans, indeed I’m sure she will be surprised just how many donations would be made to support the club with this via a type of crowdfunding via FOH or something like that.

Even if this fails at least we fought for what we think is morally correct and we didn’t just roll over and get our belly tickled.

I wouldnt go “Crowdfunding”.  Just reeks of desperation however; I agree with the sentiment & would contribute.
Its just semantics but it would sit better with me if we raised a “fighting fund” or a “war-chest” via JKB instead. 
I feel the FoH or the club shouldnt be seen to be looking towards the fans for help. I would rather the fans did it off their own backs and offered the money to Ann for this. 

Just my opinion mind. 

[jr ewing]

10 minutes ago, 22games nro said:

Quite simply I think it goes one of two ways.

 

1. Decides not to go down the legal route for whatever reason and in my opinion that will be the last straw for many and I genuinely feel She won’t ever recover from a decision like that.

 

2. Starts legal proceedings, again I’d say for decent compensation because we won’t overturn the expulsion, then she galvanises the very vast majority of the fans, indeed I’m sure she will be surprised just how many donations would be made to support the club with this via a type of crowdfunding via FOH or something like that.

Even if this fails at least we fought for what we think is morally correct and we didn’t just roll over and get our belly tickled.

Who Dares Wins.

[tynewater]

The unfairness of the current situation hurts, no doubt. Ourselves, Partick and Stranraer are the 3 clubs that are definitely going to suffer adversely due to the early calling of the season. The other clubs are just relieved it's not them, and are very happy to have us taking the fall. They say they "sympathise"; some of them may, but they don't really give a hoot about the impact it has on us, they are just happy they are staying in their current league (we'd be the same in their position).

 

Despite all this, I don't think we should be taking legal action, reasons being:

1. It will be costly and we may well not win. Money would be better spent on helping the club survive than in boosting lawyers incomes.

2. The survival and success of Scottish football is in our interest. We will not be joining the English leagues, there won't be a breakaway league here, and the Scottish league is our only home. Inflicting lasting damage on it with a lengthy legal battle will not help us (although it might make some angry people feel better in the short term), and will make us a parriah in the game here for years to come.

3. We need to get with planning for our future. We have a lot to do to sort out the disaster area our first team has become, and to get our financial position as solid as possible in the most difficult of circumstances. A lengthy legal battle will be a huge distraction, and will take up a lot of management time and energy that is required on other more important issues. A club that only managed 4 wins in 2019-20 has a lot of problems to address.

 

We've not been relegated, we are being demoted or expelled. What's happened in 2019-20 is exceptional, and has affected us hugely in a negative way. Launching legal action might make me feel better in the short term, but I really don't think it's in our longer term interest. 

[SpruceBringsteen]

13 minutes ago, tynewater said:

The unfairness of the current situation hurts, no doubt. Ourselves, Partick and Stranraer are the 3 clubs that are definitely going to suffer adversely due to the early calling of the season. The other clubs are just relieved it's not them, and are very happy to have us taking the fall. They say they "sympathise"; some of them may, but they don't really give a hoot about the impact it has on us, they are just happy they are staying in their current league (we'd be the same in their position).

 

Despite all this, I don't think we should be taking legal action, reasons being:

1. It will be costly and we may well not win. Money would be better spent on helping the club survive than in boosting lawyers incomes.

2. The survival and success of Scottish football is in our interest. We will not be joining the English leagues, there won't be a breakaway league here, and the Scottish league is our only home. Inflicting lasting damage on it with a lengthy legal battle will not help us (although it might make some angry people feel better in the short term), and will make us a parriah in the game here for years to come.

3. We need to get with planning for our future. We have a lot to do to sort out the disaster area our first team has become, and to get our financial position as solid as possible in the most difficult of circumstances. A lengthy legal battle will be a huge distraction, and will take up a lot of management time and energy that is required on other more important issues. A club that only managed 4 wins in 2019-20 has a lot of problems to address.

 

We've not been relegated, we are being demoted or expelled. What's happened in 2019-20 is exceptional, and has affected us hugely in a negative way. Launching legal action might make me feel better in the short term, but I really don't think it's in our longer term interest. 

 

Interesting that this post was quoted exactly two minutes later by an Aberdeen fan on Pie & Bovril. He was very quick off the mark.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 minute ago, SpruceBringsteen said:

 

Interesting that this post was quoted exactly two minutes later by an Aberdeen fan on Pie & Bovril. He was very quick off the mark.

 

Oh sheepwater!

[Kidd’s Boots]

Today's proceedings have been a real insight to the lip service payed by the Executive and non Exec Chairman of the SPFL  to the genuine concerns raised by their members. The pejorative language of their media team does nothing to enhance the stature and credibility of anyone who holds office within the organisation. Accredited to Murdoch Maclennan 'overwhelmingly majority reject resolution', official SPFL website ' less than one third vote for resolution'. I question this narrative as one of reconciliation, contrition and reflection on the worrying fact that nearly one third of the members have no confidence in the Chairman and Executive of the organistation. The court route, in my opinion will not solve this issue, and needs to be separated from the harm caused by the Executive decision of demotion to the Championship. I fully support our Board and the call to crowd fund legal proceedings against the Executive in this matter. I would also fully support all and any future action members feel necessary to remove the current Executive of the SPFL. 

Edited May 12, 2020 by Kidd’s Boots
Typo

[Pistol1874]

16 minutes ago, tynewater said:

The unfairness of the current situation hurts, no doubt. Ourselves, Partick and Stranraer are the 3 clubs that are definitely going to suffer adversely due to the early calling of the season. The other clubs are just relieved it's not them, and are very happy to have us taking the fall. They say they "sympathise"; some of them may, but they don't really give a hoot about the impact it has on us, they are just happy they are staying in their current league (we'd be the same in their position).

 

Despite all this, I don't think we should be taking legal action, reasons being:

1. It will be costly and we may well not win. Money would be better spent on helping the club survive than in boosting lawyers incomes.

2. The survival and success of Scottish football is in our interest. We will not be joining the English leagues, there won't be a breakaway league here, and the Scottish league is our only home. Inflicting lasting damage on it with a lengthy legal battle will not help us (although it might make some angry people feel better in the short term), and will make us a parriah in the game here for years to come.

3. We need to get with planning for our future. We have a lot to do to sort out the disaster area our first team has become, and to get our financial position as solid as possible in the most difficult of circumstances. A lengthy legal battle will be a huge distraction, and will take up a lot of management time and energy that is required on other more important issues. A club that only managed 4 wins in 2019-20 has a lot of problems to address.

 

We've not been relegated, we are being demoted or expelled. What's happened in 2019-20 is exceptional, and has affected us hugely in a negative way. Launching legal action might make me feel better in the short term, but I really don't think it's in our longer term interest. 

1. Define 'win'.  Our fellow clubs have shown not one iota of care towards Heart of Midlothian Football Club, no talk of 'sorry you have to play there, we will do everything we can, including adjusting prize money, to ensure you are not financially disadvantaged', nothing. It seems clear that if we can delay football for even 2 months, longer if possible, we might achieve real damage to clubs like St Johnstone, Ross County, Hamilton or Livingston maybe more.

2. If you haven't learned over the past month that there is no such thing as the interests of 'Scottish Football', merely a collection of clubs looking out for themselves, I don't know what to tell you. The lack of voices from supporters of other in clubs in supporting a fair sporting outcome in which no-one is punished for a season that looks like it will not be completed is irreparable, it cannot and will not be forgotten.

3. The two things need not be and are not, mutually exclusive. Sacking a manager and then seemingly allowing him to input into recruitment of players for his replacement is unquestionably mental, so is paying nearly £22m for a £12m stand and, of course, paying £1m for a pitch that looked worse than the old one isn't ideal, but hey, we can defend ourselves externally and still have inward reflection.

[mitch41]

33 minutes ago, tynewater said:

The unfairness of the current situation hurts, no doubt. Ourselves, Partick and Stranraer are the 3 clubs that are definitely going to suffer adversely due to the early calling of the season. The other clubs are just relieved it's not them, and are very happy to have us taking the fall. They say they "sympathise"; some of them may, but they don't really give a hoot about the impact it has on us, they are just happy they are staying in their current league (we'd be the same in their position).

 

Despite all this, I don't think we should be taking legal action, reasons being:

1. It will be costly and we may well not win. Money would be better spent on helping the club survive than in boosting lawyers incomes.

2. The survival and success of Scottish football is in our interest. We will not be joining the English leagues, there won't be a breakaway league here, and the Scottish league is our only home. Inflicting lasting damage on it with a lengthy legal battle will not help us (although it might make some angry people feel better in the short term), and will make us a parriah in the game here for years to come.

3. We need to get with planning for our future. We have a lot to do to sort out the disaster area our first team has become, and to get our financial position as solid as possible in the most difficult of circumstances. A lengthy legal battle will be a huge distraction, and will take up a lot of management time and energy that is required on other more important issues. A club that only managed 4 wins in 2019-20 has a lot of problems to address.

 

We've not been relegated, we are being demoted or expelled. What's happened in 2019-20 is exceptional, and has affected us hugely in a negative way. Launching legal action might make me feel better in the short term, but I really don't think it's in our longer term interest. 

Flying the white flag over Tynecastle is not an option for us Jambos. Where is your pride tynewater.

[Kiwidoug]

I think we just sit tight.  I would never wish this on anyone, but the longer this pandemic continues, the more it plays into our hands imo.  Potentially months on end with no football or silly football played behind closed doors.

 

That scenario also sees the prospect of clubs folding increasing by the day.  A great deal has yet to play out.  Scottish football as I understand  it wasn't on a strong financial before this nightmare.  It will be a great deal worse now.

[Busby8]

42 minutes ago, tynewater said:

The unfairness of the current situation hurts, no doubt. Ourselves, Partick and Stranraer are the 3 clubs that are definitely going to suffer adversely due to the early calling of the season. The other clubs are just relieved it's not them, and are very happy to have us taking the fall. They say they "sympathise"; some of them may, but they don't really give a hoot about the impact it has on us, they are just happy they are staying in their current league (we'd be the same in their position).

 

Despite all this, I don't think we should be taking legal action, reasons being:

1. It will be costly and we may well not win. Money would be better spent on helping the club survive than in boosting lawyers incomes.

2. The survival and success of Scottish football is in our interest. We will not be joining the English leagues, there won't be a breakaway league here, and the Scottish league is our only home. Inflicting lasting damage on it with a lengthy legal battle will not help us (although it might make some angry people feel better in the short term), and will make us a parriah in the game here for years to come.

3. We need to get with planning for our future. We have a lot to do to sort out the disaster area our first team has become, and to get our financial position as solid as possible in the most difficult of circumstances. A lengthy legal battle will be a huge distraction, and will take up a lot of management time and energy that is required on other more important issues. A club that only managed 4 wins in 2019-20 has a lot of problems to address.

 

We've not been relegated, we are being demoted or expelled. What's happened in 2019-20 is exceptional, and has affected us hugely in a negative way. Launching legal action might make me feel better in the short term, but I really don't think it's in our longer term interest. 

 

We roll over for this without a proper fight and that mob through in the west will have carte blanche to do whatever they want to us in the future, with impunity.

It's a wee bit like the school bully. If you don't make a stand, they will keep on coming back and giving you more shit, year after year.

 

Imagine the stick we would give the team if they just chucked it with 20 minutes to go.

The club that have been in my blood for over 60 years are better than that, or at least I hope they are.

 

Great Hearts men such as Mackay, Cummings etc would be turning in their graves if we just gave up.

Fight this corruption and injustice and at least try to make them think twice before pulling a stunt like this ever again.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

We need to go down the injunction route like the French clubs are. Prevent the league starting and force them to properly consider reconstruction or offer proper compensation.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 hour ago, Pans Jambo said:

I wouldnt go “Crowdfunding”.  Just reeks of desperation however; I agree with the sentiment & would contribute.
Its just semantics but it would sit better with me if we raised a “fighting fund” or a “war-chest” via JKB instead. 
I feel the FoH or the club shouldnt be seen to be looking towards the fans for help. I would rather the fans did it off their own backs and offered the money to Ann for this. 

Just my opinion mind. 

 

Crowdfunding is a great way to do it. It shows the level of support and helps get justice done. It's also very understandable during an economic crisis like this.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

57 minutes ago, tynewater said:

The unfairness of the current situation hurts, no doubt. Ourselves, Partick and Stranraer are the 3 clubs that are definitely going to suffer adversely due to the early calling of the season. The other clubs are just relieved it's not them, and are very happy to have us taking the fall. They say they "sympathise"; some of them may, but they don't really give a hoot about the impact it has on us, they are just happy they are staying in their current league (we'd be the same in their position).

 

Despite all this, I don't think we should be taking legal action, reasons being:

1. It will be costly and we may well not win. Money would be better spent on helping the club survive than in boosting lawyers incomes.

2. The survival and success of Scottish football is in our interest. We will not be joining the English leagues, there won't be a breakaway league here, and the Scottish league is our only home. Inflicting lasting damage on it with a lengthy legal battle will not help us (although it might make some angry people feel better in the short term), and will make us a parriah in the game here for years to come.

3. We need to get with planning for our future. We have a lot to do to sort out the disaster area our first team has become, and to get our financial position as solid as possible in the most difficult of circumstances. A lengthy legal battle will be a huge distraction, and will take up a lot of management time and energy that is required on other more important issues. A club that only managed 4 wins in 2019-20 has a lot of problems to address.

 

We've not been relegated, we are being demoted or expelled. What's happened in 2019-20 is exceptional, and has affected us hugely in a negative way. Launching legal action might make me feel better in the short term, but I really don't think it's in our longer term interest. 

 

What happens during the next pandemic, or even just any 2nd/3rd/4th wave of this one?

[Pans Jambo]

4 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Crowdfunding is a great way to do it. It shows the level of support and helps get justice done. It's also very understandable during an economic crisis like this.

I know. 
Would just like to see a JKB fighting fund instead. No real problem either way. Just a preference. 

[Beast Boy]

1 minute ago, Pans Jambo said:

I know. 
Would just like to see a JKB fighting fund instead. No real problem either way. Just a preference. 

Either JKB Fighting Fund, or HMFC/FoH Fighting Fund for me too. I’d also want Ann Budge to match whatever we raise.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

7 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

I know. 
Would just like to see a JKB fighting fund instead. No real problem either way. Just a preference. 

 

Same thing? It's all crowdfunding.

[jock _turd]

7 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

What happens during the next pandemic, or even just any 2nd/3rd/4th wave of this one?

 

Exactly anybody who thinks this outbreak is a one off even is badly misguided in their thinking. There will be more outbreaks to come essentially because we have no effective vaccine or drug to treat it with at this time and really only these will defeat the virus.

[CJGJ]

Just now, ToqueJambo said:

 

Same thing? It's all crowdfunding.

Costs ?

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Just now, CJGJ said:

Costs ?

 

Crowdfunding to pay legal costs? Yes, it would be a great way to go especially considering the reason we'd be doing it is because we're suffering financially as a result of the vote.

[milky_26]

Just now, ToqueJambo said:

 

Crowdfunding to pay legal costs? Yes, it would be a great way to go especially considering the reason we'd be doing it is because we're suffering financially as a result of the vote.

he means crowdfunding websites take a fee from each donation 

[CJGJ]

Just now, ToqueJambo said:

 

Crowdfunding to pay legal costs? Yes, it would be a great way to go especially considering the reason we'd be doing it is because we're suffering financially as a result of the vote.

I meant the cost of crowdfunding on a site...I was not aware it was free given all the stories about companies making money from charitable donations

 

A more local based way of funding ie say JKB wold not have the same costs perhaps

[CJGJ]

1 minute ago, milky_26 said:

he means crowdfunding websites take a fee from each donation 

Sorry for my post being confusing..you are quite right and I wish I'd just said that..thanks

[Guest ToqueJambo]

4 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

he means crowdfunding websites take a fee from each donation 

 

 Ah right, I just think of it as a way to fund something however you do it. 

[Jambo92]

Get this to court and drag it out for as long as possible, drain the swamp.

If Ann wants to stick around here she better learn to be petty and horrible to deal with for anyone not associated with Hearts. 

[milky_26]

2 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

 Ah right, I just think of it as a way to fund something however you do it. 

i agree, that is why FoH might be the best way to do it

[1971fozzy]

Get into them legally. Hurt them. Use our FOH funds. Delay their league starting.

All gloves off

[jr ewing]

2 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

i agree, that is why FoH might be the best way to do it

A separate fund associated within FOH ?

[milky_26]

7 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

A separate fund associated within FOH ?

yes, i would want it separate as not all FoH donors would want to support this. or at least using the FoH platform

[Pans Jambo]

26 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Same thing? It's all crowdfunding.

Indeed. Its not a debate mate and as I said, just semantics. Just feels better for me if its not a standard public fund raising platform. 
More happy if JKB handle it. 

[jr ewing]

21 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

yes, i would want it separate as not all FoH donors would want to support this. or at least using the FoH platform

Agreed 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

The former First Minister used crowd funding to his advantage. 

 

Maybe not a great example, I'd admit but it can be done 

[Unknown user]

8 hours ago, tynewater said:

The unfairness of the current situation hurts, no doubt. Ourselves, Partick and Stranraer are the 3 clubs that are definitely going to suffer adversely due to the early calling of the season. The other clubs are just relieved it's not them, and are very happy to have us taking the fall. They say they "sympathise"; some of them may, but they don't really give a hoot about the impact it has on us, they are just happy they are staying in their current league (we'd be the same in their position).

 

Despite all this, I don't think we should be taking legal action, reasons being:

1. It will be costly and we may well not win. Money would be better spent on helping the club survive than in boosting lawyers incomes.

2. The survival and success of Scottish football is in our interest. We will not be joining the English leagues, there won't be a breakaway league here, and the Scottish league is our only home. Inflicting lasting damage on it with a lengthy legal battle will not help us (although it might make some angry people feel better in the short term), and will make us a parriah in the game here for years to come.

3. We need to get with planning for our future. We have a lot to do to sort out the disaster area our first team has become, and to get our financial position as solid as possible in the most difficult of circumstances. A lengthy legal battle will be a huge distraction, and will take up a lot of management time and energy that is required on other more important issues. A club that only managed 4 wins in 2019-20 has a lot of problems to address.

 

We've not been relegated, we are being demoted or expelled. What's happened in 2019-20 is exceptional, and has affected us hugely in a negative way. Launching legal action might make me feel better in the short term, but I really don't think it's in our longer term interest. 

 

If we're talking about the future and our longer term interest we need to keep in mind the consequences of being a club that rolls over and takes it when everyone else doesn't fancy taking a hit.

 

Scottish football needs to know that if you damage Hearts we'll stand up and take you on, that's the only way to ensure that messing with us isn't a serious option again. 

[ducatiboy]

[mitch41]

I take it that we are just waiting on Ann Budge and Stuart Wallace to have discussions on the way forward.

I’m sure our fans will be ready to help take the fight to the courts and contribute the money needed.
I guess many of us Jambos are like a coiled spring ready to get a fund going.

 

Edited May 13, 2020 by mitch41

[jr ewing]

I would recommend  Bob Shapiro. 

[deejtee]

Neither FOH or JKB as it needs to reach out and be accessible to anyone who wants to put money in. There are plenty fans who are in neither and there may even be the odd person who just supports justice.

[mitch41]

19 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

I wouldnt go “Crowdfunding”.  Just reeks of desperation however; I agree with the sentiment & would contribute.
Its just semantics but it would sit better with me if we raised a “fighting fund” or a “war-chest” via JKB instead. 
I feel the FoH or the club shouldnt be seen to be looking towards the fans for help. I would rather the fans did it off their own backs and offered the money to Ann for this. 

Just my opinion mind. 

Desperation !   Semantics !  I don't see the difference between Crowdfunding, Fighting Fund and War Chest. Either way the club get the money raised to take on the SFPL and their sheep.

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

2 hours ago, mitch41 said:

I take it that we are just waiting on Ann Budge and Stuart Wallace to have discussions on the way forward.

I’m sure our fans will be ready to help take the fight to the courts and contribute the money needed.
I guess many of us Jambos are like a coiled spring ready to get a fund going.

 

More likely they're waiting on the spfl officially calling the league because nothing can be done before that 

[mitch41]

2 hours ago, jr ewing said:

I would recommend  Bob Shapiro. 

He is too dodgy. I looked up his record and it's a wonder nobody has blown the 77 year old  away.

[Chuck Berry]

47 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

More likely they're waiting on the spfl officially calling the league because nothing can be done before that 

 

This. Once the league is called and ejection confirmed, that is then the time to seek an interdict to prevent the new season from starting as a first step.

[jr ewing]

1 hour ago, mitch41 said:

He is too dodgy. I looked up his record and it's a wonder nobody has blown the 77 year old  away.

Wins lost causes though. 

[Maroon tinted glasses 2]

2 hours ago, Chuck Berry said:

 

This. Once the league is called and ejection confirmed, that is then the time to seek an interdict to prevent the new season from starting as a first step.

I'm not an expert here but rather than wait can we not seek an interdict to prevent the league from being called if it means Hearts would be expelled. That way they would have to act quickly to sort something out. This would really start to put pressure on scumbag clubs like dundee who have contributed to this shambolic situation. 

[Chuck Berry]

2 minutes ago, Maroon tinted glasses 2 said:

I'm not an expert here but rather than wait can we not seek an interdict to prevent the league from being called if it means Hearts would be expelled. That way they would have to act quickly to sort something out. This would really start to put pressure on scumbag clubs like dundee who have contributed to this shambolic situation. 

 

Not a legal expert either, no idea tbh