David McCaig Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 13 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said: I’m exactly the same. As am I, but quite alarmed at the number of fans I have spoken to, who fully intend to hold the club to account over the 18 matches of physical attendance they have been promised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 11 minutes ago, David McCaig said: As am I, but quite alarmed at the number of fans I have spoken to, who fully intend to hold the club to account over the 18 matches of physical attendance they have been promised. Did the club actually state physical attendance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David McCaig Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 6 minutes ago, davemclaren said: Did the club actually state physical attendance? Season Ticket Guarantee Pledge The Season Ticket Guarantee pledge will ensure supporters get the full value of their 2020/21 season ticket. To be absolutely clear, the club is making a very simple pledge to supporters who renew their season ticket for 20/21: no-one will lose out. A 20/21 season ticket guarantees you 18 matches at Tynecastle Park, regardless of what league we play in or of the duration of the campaign. If season 20/21 cannot offer supporters access to a full complement of 18 home games then fans who renew their season ticket for the following season will be credited with the value of the outstanding number of matches for season 21/22. Those who chose not to renew their season ticket will be offered the relevant number of match tickets for season 21/22. These tickets will be subject to availability. In short, the club is committed to ensuring that no supporter will be left disadvantaged as a result of securing their seat at Tynecastle for the 20/21 season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, David McCaig said: Season Ticket Guarantee Pledge The Season Ticket Guarantee pledge will ensure supporters get the full value of their 2020/21 season ticket. To be absolutely clear, the club is making a very simple pledge to supporters who renew their season ticket for 20/21: no-one will lose out. A 20/21 season ticket guarantees you 18 matches at Tynecastle Park, regardless of what league we play in or of the duration of the campaign. If season 20/21 cannot offer supporters access to a full complement of 18 home games then fans who renew their season ticket for the following season will be credited with the value of the outstanding number of matches for season 21/22. Those who chose not to renew their season ticket will be offered the relevant number of match tickets for season 21/22. These tickets will be subject to availability. In short, the club is committed to ensuring that no supporter will be left disadvantaged as a result of securing their seat at Tynecastle for the 20/21 season. So it depends on the interpretation of ‘access to matches at Tynecastle Park’ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 28 minutes ago, David McCaig said: As am I, but quite alarmed at the number of fans I have spoken to, who fully intend to hold the club to account over the 18 matches of physical attendance they have been promised. I agree. It does seem petty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David McCaig Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, davemclaren said: So it depends on the interpretation of ‘access to matches at Tynecastle Park’ It says - guarantees you 18 matches at Tynecastle Park, not guarantees you access to 18 matches at/from Tynecastle Park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David McCaig Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 1 minute ago, The Real Maroonblood said: I agree. It does seem petty. Nothing like money to bring out the worst in people and people will effectively be being asked to forego £300 - £450 next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 1 minute ago, David McCaig said: It says - guarantees you 18 matches at Tynecastle Park, not guarantees you access to 18 matches at/from Tynecastle Park. Fair enough, but still doesn’t state 18 physical attendances as opposed to other means of accessing matches at Tynecastle Park. We’ll see if the club is a bit more definitive at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David McCaig Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 1 minute ago, davemclaren said: Fair enough, but still doesn’t state 18 physical attendances as opposed to other means of accessing matches at Tynecastle Park. We’ll see if the club is a bit more definitive at some point. I think the intention of the guarantee is pretty clear, hopefully James Anderson has agreed to underwrite this pledge. Even if we had full crowds in from day one of this season we would be 23% down in ST revenue for next season if everyone exercised their rights to 18 matches. What Hearts are offering is very laudable, but its creating a sizeable future problem if not mitigated by the club/Ann/benefactors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 2 minutes ago, David McCaig said: I think the intention of the guarantee is pretty clear, hopefully James Anderson has agreed to underwrite this pledge. Even if we had full crowds in from day one of this season we would be 23% down in ST revenue for next season if everyone exercised their rights to 18 matches. What Hearts are offering is very laudable, but its creating a sizeable future problem if not mitigated by the club/Ann/benefactors. We’ll undoubtedly find out what it means in terms of physical v online attendance. I’m not as convinced as you that it’s totally clear it means physical attendance at matches. Perhaps someone will ask On a separate note I don’t think we should rely on any one person dipping into their pockets to cover any shortfall resulting from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David McCaig Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, davemclaren said: We’ll undoubtedly find out what it means in terms of physical v online attendance. I’m not as convinced as you that it’s totally clear it means physical attendance at matches. Perhaps someone will ask On a separate note I don’t think we should rely on any one person dipping into their pockets to cover any shortfall resulting from it. That's fair enough, in which case the club would have to make clear to any fans potentially taking a refund what it would mean financially for the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otterjohn Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 Im of the opinion that whatever the circumstances I want Hearts to keep the whole amount of my season ticket money for this season. I appreciate everyone has different circumstances so what anyone decides to do has my respect. The only point id make is that when this whole sorry situation started everyone must have realised there would be problems along the way. im just looking on it as a way to keep Hearts going so its really a donation and for the folk that cant afford to just now, I hope it helps Hearts to be there for them. We all want the same thing. ONLY HEARTS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, otterjohn said: Im of the opinion that whatever the circumstances I want Hearts to keep the whole amount of my season ticket money for this season. I appreciate everyone has different circumstances so what anyone decides to do has my respect. The only point id make is that when this whole sorry situation started everyone must have realised there would be problems along the way. im just looking on it as a way to keep Hearts going so its really a donation and for the folk that cant afford to just now, I hope it helps Hearts to be there for them. We all want the same thing. ONLY HEARTS 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 5 minutes ago, otterjohn said: Im of the opinion that whatever the circumstances I want Hearts to keep the whole amount of my season ticket money for this season. I appreciate everyone has different circumstances so what anyone decides to do has my respect. The only point id make is that when this whole sorry situation started everyone must have realised there would be problems along the way. im just looking on it as a way to keep Hearts going so its really a donation and for the folk that cant afford to just now, I hope it helps Hearts to be there for them. We all want the same thing. ONLY HEARTS That’s my view as well. I budget for a season ticket every year anyway. Appreciate we all have different financial positions and views though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franksluckypants Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 2 hours ago, Smith's right boot said: Good to line your ducks up, you don't want to be one of these fools that waste 10/20 minutes deciding on who to boo. Amateur hour. Model flying club, where you can hire a model plane. Take off from the centre spot and have your very own abusive banner from the tail? £1 a letter & £5 per lap of Tynie...we would have made a fortune last year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JALBO Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 Lunchtime Dot Count today: Total seats apparently available for season ticket sale: 14,646 Seats left in Wheatfield: 1,170 Seats left in Main: 1,179 Seats left in Gorgie: 629 Available seats apparently sold: 11,668 This doesn't include wheelchair/personal assistant season ticket sales, nor do we have any hospitality season passes (yet?) that we can factor in. It's a great effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 3 hours ago, Mysterion said: I'm expecting Hearts TV will broadcast games which will result in free access offered to ST holders to avoid having to give a discount for season 21-22. 2 hours ago, The Real Maroonblood said: I agree. It does seem petty. We have already been through this to the extent that someone emailed the club and was told it is based on actually attending a game at Tynie. They will not palm people off with access to streams counting towards the 18 games. Nor should they. With regards to people taking Hearts up in their offer or not next year people should not be shamed into feeling bad about whatever decision they make. We will be lucky if you get to attend 6 or 7 games this season at Tynie. That is over £40 per game if you don't take up the offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 7 minutes ago, hughesie27 said: We have already been through this to the extent that someone emailed the club and was told it is based on actually attending a game at Tynie. They will not palm people off with access to streams counting towards the 18 games. Nor should they. With regards to people taking Hearts up in their offer or not next year people should not be shamed into feeling bad about whatever decision they make. We will be lucky if you get to attend 6 or 7 games this season at Tynie. That is over £40 per game if you don't take up the offer. Hope he archived the email. 😜 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodami Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 I think the club will sell games online with maybe a discount to season ticket holders. This would also generate more cash in the short term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott herbertson Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 4 hours ago, JALBO said: Lunchtime Dot Count today: Total seats apparently available for season ticket sale: 14,646 Seats left in Wheatfield: 1,170 Seats left in Main: 1,179 Seats left in Gorgie: 629 Available seats apparently sold: 11,668 This doesn't include wheelchair/personal assistant season ticket sales, nor do we have any hospitality season passes (yet?) that we can factor in. It's a great effort. Yes Jalbo - a great effort by you to count that many dots 🙂 Seriously, well done mate and 11,668 is pretty sensational IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 6 hours ago, JALBO said: Lunchtime Dot Count today: Total seats apparently available for season ticket sale: 14,646 Seats left in Wheatfield: 1,170 Seats left in Main: 1,179 Seats left in Gorgie: 629 Available seats apparently sold: 11,668 This doesn't include wheelchair/personal assistant season ticket sales, nor do we have any hospitality season passes (yet?) that we can factor in. It's a great effort. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector Riva Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 How are we doing now. 12000? Can't be far off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Of The Cat Cafe Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 On 02/09/2020 at 16:05, Jodami said: I think the club will sell games online with maybe a discount to season ticket holders. This would also generate more cash in the short term. Why not free to ST holders? We have already paid for seats that many of us will never get our bums in this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodami Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 10 minutes ago, King Of The Cat Cafe said: Why not free to ST holders? We have already paid for seats that many of us will never get our bums in this season. Because it looks like the season ticket guarantees actual physical attendance and those games will be rolled over until that time. That is an honourable and fair approach imo. One issue among several with not doing that and offering free coverage instead is households that have multiple season ticket holders will be paying a small fortune for one game. That is more likely to impact on people deciding to renew in the future in an economy that may be very bleak. Selling the games online in some way is probably the cleanest solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartsofgold Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 19 minutes ago, King Of The Cat Cafe said: Why not free to ST holders? We have already paid for seats that many of us will never get our bums in this season. It had BETTER be this or I will be a very unhappy bunny. I've paid for 3 season tickets for my house and expect to get live streaming from ALL the games played at Tynecastle in the league as part of those tickets at no extra cost to myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 8 minutes ago, Jodami said: Because it looks like the season ticket guarantees actual physical attendance and those games will be rolled over until that time. That is an honourable and fair approach imo. One issue among several with not doing that and offering free coverage instead is households that have multiple season ticket holders will be paying a small fortune for one game. That is more likely to impact on people deciding to renew in the future in an economy that may be very bleak. Selling the games online in some way is probably the cleanest solution. 4 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said: It had BETTER be this or I will be a very unhappy bunny. I've paid for 3 season tickets for my house and expect to get live streaming from ALL the games played at Tynecastle in the league as part of those tickets at no extra cost to myself. as they say, you can’t please all the people all the time. 😄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatlock Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 Personally, I’m in the “didn’t expect to get to a game” camp, but, just as I bought the Vlad shares to keep the club going and the FoH regular donation, I just want the club to survive. Won’t ask for refund and happy to buy for next again season. Once the moneys paid it’s forgotten for me. I’m not really well off but don’t have a lot of outgoings now I’m retired and I am passionate about hearts. I can’t imagine a world without HMFC and wouldn’t want to be part of the reason if we went bust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 11 minutes ago, Tatlock said: Personally, I’m in the “didn’t expect to get to a game” camp, but, just as I bought the Vlad shares to keep the club going and the FoH regular donation, I just want the club to survive. Won’t ask for refund and happy to buy for next again season. Once the moneys paid it’s forgotten for me. I’m not really well off but don’t have a lot of outgoings now I’m retired and I am passionate about hearts. I can’t imagine a world without HMFC and wouldn’t want to be part of the reason if we went bust. this for me. Though I’m still pissed at the £1k that went straight into vlad’s pocket .. 😆 Hope I get to go, nothing more than hope tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lido Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 13 minutes ago, Tatlock said: Personally, I’m in the “didn’t expect to get to a game” camp, but, just as I bought the Vlad shares to keep the club going and the FoH regular donation, I just want the club to survive. Won’t ask for refund and happy to buy for next again season. Once the moneys paid it’s forgotten for me. I’m not really well off but don’t have a lot of outgoings now I’m retired and I am passionate about hearts. I can’t imagine a world without HMFC and wouldn’t want to be part of the reason if we went bust. I'm with you here. I won't be asking for a refund either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 26 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said: this for me. Though I’m still pissed at the £1k that went straight into vlad’s pocket .. 😆 Hope I get to go, nothing more than hope tho It saved the club and we now have individual shareholder rights, thanks to Budge honouring them. I have no regrets about buying my shares, even though they have zero monetary value. I’d do it again. Agree with your post completely though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonedinbriz Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 13 minutes ago, Beast Boy said: It saved the club and we now have individual shareholder rights, thanks to Budge honouring them. I have no regrets about buying my shares, even though they have zero monetary value. I’d do it again. Agree with your post completely though. Does any body know how much my £500 investment has accrued? After all these years I must be worth a fortune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 7 minutes ago, maroonedinbriz said: Does any body know how much my £500 investment has accrued? After all these years I must be worth a fortune. https://equiniti.com/uk/contact-us/shareholder-enquiries/ You will find answers to your questions here. 👆 Just don’t expect a yacht! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ToqueJambo Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 41 minutes ago, Beast Boy said: It saved the club and we now have individual shareholder rights, thanks to Budge honouring them. I have no regrets about buying my shares, even though they have zero monetary value. I’d do it again. Agree with your post completely though. I bought shares then too. I think the people who did played an important part in terms of the message it sent potential buyers/saviours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 19 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said: I bought shares then too. I think the people who did played an important part in terms of the message it sent potential buyers/saviours. I’m sure Jackson and Budge both said that the money saved the club by keeping it going until the FoH got things up and running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bighenry Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 What a club. Simply the most loyal fans on the planet! Absolutely phenomenal 🇱🇻 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 59 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said: I bought shares then too. I think the people who did played an important part in terms of the message it sent potential buyers/saviours. It’s guys like you that have kept the club alive over the years Torque. 👏👏👏. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 My St is bought for, money gone. If I don't get to games I won't ask for a refund. The TV issue is trickier, but again if not at a game I'd pay the £10/£15, Tbh I would spend double that on transport, a few pints and food so even paying for the thr game and not getting t a game I'd be technically better off than going. Also warmer and dryer, I just want us to play again and to see us play on tv or live I don't care, but the boos are a bit lost on the tv😜 If I had a dd set up and things were tight I can understand cancelling it or asking for a refund, but if it was paid outright, for me the money is gone, not to be seen again and if it helps Hearts get through this I'm not fussed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Fox Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 2 hours ago, Beast Boy said: It saved the club and we now have individual shareholder rights, thanks to Budge honouring them. I have no regrets about buying my shares, even though they have zero monetary value. I’d do it again. Agree with your post completely though. Of course they (original shares and the second tranch) have a value including voting rights. Will you receive a dividend soon, probably not! Will somebody buy them from you in the future, possibly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, Jambo-Fox said: Of course they (original shares and the second tranch) have a value including voting rights. Will you receive a dividend soon, probably not! Will somebody buy them from you in the future, possibly! I’ll not be selling. They are symbolic to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, Jambo-Fox said: Of course they (original shares and the second tranch) have a value including voting rights. Will you receive a dividend soon, probably not! Will somebody buy them from you in the future, possibly! I doubt Hearts have paid a dividend for a long long time, if ever. 😄 for us supporters it was an emotional investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Fox Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Beast Boy said: I’ll not be selling. They are symbolic to me. And neither will I or most other supporters! I have X2 certificates and get X2 AGM invites, annual accounts etc, must be a way to consolidate them into one. Thought EQ might proactively drive that. Edited September 10, 2020 by Jambo-Fox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMJ_1874 Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 5 hours ago, King Of The Cat Cafe said: Why not free to ST holders? We have already paid for seats that many of us will never get our bums in this season. Was talking to someone in the club yesterday about advertising and asked the question wether we’ll be allowed back in and how do they decide if there’s only 25% capacity allowed? I also asked about Hearts tv and games being streamed live and was told it was free to all ST holders 3 hours ago, Tatlock said: Personally, I’m in the “didn’t expect to get to a game” camp, but, just as I bought the Vlad shares to keep the club going and the FoH regular donation, I just want the club to survive. Won’t ask for refund and happy to buy for next again season. Once the moneys paid it’s forgotten for me. I’m not really well off but don’t have a lot of outgoings now I’m retired and I am passionate about hearts. I can’t imagine a world without HMFC and wouldn’t want to be part of the reason if we went bust. Great post mate, well done. I’m sure the majority feel the same. I renewed my 3 ST’s knowing full well I won’t see a game this year. It’ll probably be well into next year and that’s just a remote chance for only some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Fox Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, davemclaren said: I doubt Hearts have paid a dividend for a long long time, if ever. 😄 for us supporters it was an emotional investment. Who need dividends when you get loyalty points! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Jambo-Fox said: And neither will I or most other supporters! I have X2 certificates and get X2 AGM invites, annual accounts etc, must be a way to consolidate then into one. Thought EQ might proactively drive that. There is. I was in the same boat. I bought shares twice (£1000 and £500) and they took two slightly different names each time. I got in touch with this lot: https://equiniti.com/uk/contact-us/shareholder-enquiries/ ... and they sorted it all out for me. Now I just get one of everything. Quick and easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, Jambo-Fox said: Who need dividends when you get loyalty points! That stopped a few seasons back. Was nice while it lasted though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Fox Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, Beast Boy said: That stopped a few seasons back. Was nice while it lasted though. Not for me 😊 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Fox Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Beast Boy said: There is. I was in the same boat. I bought shares twice (£1000 and £500) and they took two slightly different names each time. I got in touch with this lot: https://equiniti.com/uk/contact-us/shareholder-enquiries/ ... and they sorted it all out for me. Now I just get one of everything. Quick and easy. That’s right but EQ don’t drive that! (NB EQ is a business abbreviation for Equiniti) If they (EQ) made consolidation of shares easier it would deliver lower administration costs for Hearts. However maybe I’ll proactively drive that myself to save Hearts money, another contribution that I can make! Edited September 10, 2020 by Jambo-Fox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, Jambo-Fox said: That’s right but EQ don’t drive that! (NB EQ is a business abbreviation for Equiniti) If they (EQ) made consolidation of shares easier it would deliver lower administration costs for Hearts. However maybe I’ll proactively drove that myself to save Hearts money, another contribution that I can make! I wanted them to change my address and consolidate my shares. Took one email, maybe two. Was a piece of piss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 If there's a possibility of home games being given to season ticket holders to watch at home, that would be so good. I'd absolutely love it If not, just have my candy if it helps HMFC exist. Nothing expected in return. That will always be enough for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joondalupjambo Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 (edited) I just upgraded from the Gorgie to the Main so another 90 quid to help the club. Do not expect to get to a game but hey ho survival is key here so happy to do it. As for TV access if there was an option to pay a tenner a game say would be happy to do that as well regardless of having the ST. Appreciate not everyone in the same boat though. Edited September 10, 2020 by joondalupjambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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