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Roxy Hearts

The fall of unionism.

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Roxy Hearts

I lost faith in UK a long time ago when Thatcher was in power. When was your moment? 

 

This is for the opposite view from the rise and fall of the SNP. Which was fairly stupid. 

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Special Officer Doofy
Just now, Roxy Hearts said:

I lost faith in UK a long time ago when Thatcher was in power. When was your moment? 

 

This is for the opposite view from the rise and fall of the SNP. Which was fairly stupid. 


When Labour finally ousted the Tories (with my first ever vote), then they turned out to be no better than them. Realised then and there that we would have to go our own way.

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Roxy Hearts

I used to vote Labour when I had a little faith in the UK. It feels natural to be self governing and making decisions that best suit the people who live here. At least we'd get who we voted for and that's more acceptable. 

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Special Officer Doofy
1 minute ago, Roxy Hearts said:

I used to vote Labour when I had a little faith in the UK. It feels natural to be self governing and making decisions that best suit the people who live here. At least we'd get who we voted for and that's more acceptable. 


It will happen eventually, it’s inevitable. Hopefully my kids get to enjoy it. 

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Tazio

I still regret Jim Sillars not following the Scottish Labour Party all the way to its logical conclusion. If properly managed it could have been a genuine way to Scottish Independence. 

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Roxy Hearts
6 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:


It will happen eventually, it’s inevitable. Hopefully my kids get to enjoy it. 

My daughter and her boyfriend would vote for independence. They think it's natural and neither are political. 

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martoon

Voted Labour when I was first eligible in 1987. Ron Broon, the mace whisperer, was the MP. I knew after that it was a wasted vote. 

 

Voted SNP ever since. 

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Jambo_Gaz

Alex Salmonds $113 a barrell would have helped us all out. 

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Trapper John McIntyre
2 minutes ago, Jambo_Gaz said:

Alex Salmonds $113 a barrell would have helped us all out. 

Aye. What is it now $20? And a massive increase in the debt Scotland will owe the rUK when it leaves thanks to Cyrus the Virus.

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coconut doug

All the above but setting up the Iraq war meant that the Labour party offered nothing different to the Tories and under Blair was actually worse than the Major government that preceded it. 

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Space Mackerel

I was about 5 years old, my dad said all Tories are wankers. He wasn't wrong.

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Space Mackerel
5 minutes ago, Trapper John McIntyre said:

Aye. What is it now $20? And a massive increase in the debt Scotland will owe the rUK when it leaves thanks to Cyrus the Virus.

 

You chose to take that debt back in 2014.

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Hunky Dory
11 minutes ago, Jambo_Gaz said:

Alex Salmonds $113 a barrell would have helped us all out. 

 

How much is leaving the EU going to cost your household?

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Jambos_1874
57 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:


When Labour finally ousted the Tories (with my first ever vote), then they turned out to be no better than them. Realised then and there that we would have to go our own way.

 

Why is it you think that politicians in Scotland would be any better than those in Westminster? There have been numerous instances of SNP politicians, for example, behaving poorly or incompetently or both.

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luckydug

I've always had Nationalist leanings but when I first started voting , SNP was a wasted vote.

Ever since the Thatcher years it's been SNP for me.

Maggie Thatcher did a great deal for the SNP cause.

Devolution has shown that Scotland is well capable of running it's own affairs. 

Independence will come it's just a matter of time.

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luckydug

What a lot of Unionists fail to understand is there is a lot of people outside the SNP who support the idea of Independence.

Labour , Greens, some Liberals and Conservatives as well.

I remember a panel of representatives on BBC Scotland channel were asked if they  favoured a second referendum and the SNP member was the only one in favour. However they were then asked how they would vote in the event of a referendum . The Labour member was the only one who said she would vote NO.

Even the Conservative said he would vote for Independence. 

We will not be a one party state when Independence comes who knows people might even start voting Labour again☺

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Pasquale for King
1 hour ago, Roxy Hearts said:

I lost faith in UK a long time ago when Thatcher was in power. When was your moment? 

 

This is for the opposite view from the rise and fall of the SNP. Which was fairly stupid. 

I never really had faith in it since I was old enough to realise what Thatcher was all about, I still love milk.

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Special Officer Doofy
14 minutes ago, Jambos_1874 said:

 

Why is it you think that politicians in Scotland would be any better than those in Westminster? There have been numerous instances of SNP politicians, for example, behaving poorly or incompetently or both.


The major difference for me, is that we’d have more power to vote parties out in an independent country. As it stands, a West Minster government is virtually immune from a vote of no confidence from Scotland... as we have seen.

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Pasquale for King
3 minutes ago, luckydug said:

What a lot of Unionists fail to understand is there is a lot of people outside the SNP who support the idea of Independence.

Labour , Greens, some Liberals and Conservatives as well.

I remember a panel of representatives on BBC Scotland channel were asked if they  favoured a second referendum and the SNP member was the only one in favour. However they were then asked how they would vote in the event of a referendum . The Labour member was the only one who said she would vote NO.

Even the Conservative said he would vote for Independence. 

We will not be a one party state when Independence comes who knows people might even start voting Labour again☺

Indeed, I love the look on Unionists faces and SNP nuts when I tell them I’m not a great fan, I prefer the term Yesser. That’s why u volunteer for Common Weal. I will probably be a Green after Indy which is a bit ironic 🙈😃.

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Pasquale for King
19 minutes ago, Jambos_1874 said:

 

Why is it you think that politicians in Scotland would be any better than those in Westminster? There have been numerous instances of SNP politicians, for example, behaving poorly or incompetently or both.

I don’t think the comparison stands up well, there’s more instances of Unionists bad behaviour than the SNP but far less all told than what happens at Westminster.

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Pasquale for King
54 minutes ago, Jambo_Gaz said:

Alex Salmonds $113 a barrell would have helped us all out. 

The UK has wasted every ounce of oil they pay someone else to take out the ground and still borrow against.

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Space Mackerel
24 minutes ago, Jambos_1874 said:

 

Why is it you think that politicians in Scotland would be any better than those in Westminster? There have been numerous instances of SNP politicians, for example, behaving poorly or incompetently or both.

 

Because neo liberal capitalism has failed.

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Jambos_1874
Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:


The major difference for me, is that we’d have more power to vote parties out in an independent country. As it stands, a West Minster government is virtually immune from a vote of no confidence from Scotland... as we have seen.

 

That's fair and makes sense, but I still question whether they would be much better than MPs at Westminster.

 

I am a Unionist but if it could be clearly demonstrated that independence was better for me and the country as a whole, then I would vote for it, as contradictory as that sounds. However, the idea of independence has been around for a long time but some of the fundamental questions on how it would work have not been answered satisfactorily, if at all. I genuinely try to look at things objectively but I just cannot see how we could balance the books without masive cuts. It's often hard to have a discussion with a staunch Nationalist on this because they always seem to have selective hearing on this point.

Edited by Jambos_1874

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Special Officer Doofy
14 minutes ago, Jambos_1874 said:

 

That's fair and makes sense, but I still question whether they would be much better than MPs at Westminster.

 

I am a Unionist but if it could be clearly demonstrated that independence was better for me and the country as a whole, then I would vote for it, as contradictory as that sounds. However, the idea of independence has been around for a long time but some of the fundamental questions on how it would work have not been answered satisfactorily, if at all. I genuinely try to look at things objectively but I just cannot see how we could balance the books without masive cuts. It's often hard to have a discussion with a staunch Nationalist on this because they always seem to have selective hearing on this point.


I understand your feeling on this matter. I don’t agree with them, but I respect the fact you are civil in your argument.

 

I think the best demonstration of how it would work, is just to look at similar sized nations to our own, and see how they are quite happily rolling along as independent countries in charge of their own affairs. 

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ADAM
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Special Officer Doofy said:


I understand your feeling on this matter. I don’t agree with them, but I respect the fact you are civil in your argument.

 

I think the best demonstration of how it would work, is just to look at similar sized nations to our own, and see how they are quite happily rolling along as independent countries in charge of their own affairs. 

And there you go not answering any of the legitimate basic questions associated with independence.  No answers will result in another no vote.

 

The entire independence strategy at the moment seems to be to hold monthly flag waving marches,  it will influence nobody to change their vote.  In fact, I'd argue it's actually having a negative impact, it's actually entrenching the no vote.

 

There are genuine questions like: What will the currency be? Will there be a hard border with England? What level will we have to take of UK debt? How many years will it take to join the EU? Will we have to massively reduce public spending to meet EU conditions to join?

Until these, and numerous other questions,  and be clearly, easily and definitively answered the poll numbers will not change much and certainly won't reach the high 50s - 60% needed to risk a referendum.

Edited by ADAM

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Zlatanable
3 hours ago, Roxy Hearts said:

I lost faith in UK a long time ago when Thatcher was in power. When was your moment? 

 

This is for the opposite view from the rise and fall of the SNP. Which was fairly stupid. 

Thank you. Best wishes to you and your obviously, utterly sensible, and popular thread @Roxy Hearts

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ri Alban

:jambobanana:

 

Tick Tock!!!

 

 

 

 

But there's more serious things to worry about today.  So I'lll leave you Unionists in peace...  For now!

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Justin Z
2 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

Thank you. Best wishes to you and your obviously, utterly sensible, and popular thread @Roxy Hearts

 

Thought you'd left. That lasted long.

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Ehllhayapeh

The failing of (British) Unionism and what will eventually kill it is the obsession with centralisation on London, including refusal to devolve immigration and the limited real powers of the devolved Governments.

 

Queensland in OZ was able to shut its own borders with NSW as part of covid 19. You can get state specific visas and votes count equally regardless of population.

 

I used to live in Jeju in Korea. They can issue Jeju only residence permits and incentivise investment.

 

This and the colossall mis representation of Scotlands finances and using it to fund HS2 and the likes is why it will never work.

 

A federal type UK could work but itll never ever happen.

 

 

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Special Officer Doofy
4 hours ago, ADAM said:

And there you go not answering any of the legitimate basic questions associated with independence.  No answers will result in another no vote.


Didn’t realise I held so much power. 

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Pans Jambo
8 hours ago, Trapper John McIntyre said:

Aye. What is it now $20? And a massive increase in the debt Scotland will owe the rUK when it leaves thanks to Cyrus the Virus.

There he is!!!! Your mobile been in self isolation???

 

If we are independent and oil is a fiver a barrel, it’ll be 100% our fiver!

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Pans Jambo
5 hours ago, ADAM said:

And there you go not answering any of the legitimate basic questions associated with independence.  No answers will result in another no vote.

 

The entire independence strategy at the moment seems to be to hold monthly flag waving marches,  it will influence nobody to change their vote.  In fact, I'd argue it's actually having a negative impact, it's actually entrenching the no vote.

 

There are genuine questions like: What will the currency be? Will there be a hard border with England? What level will we have to take of UK debt? How many years will it take to join the EU? Will we have to massively reduce public spending to meet EU conditions to join?

Until these, and numerous other questions,  and be clearly, easily and definitively answered the poll numbers will not change much and certainly won't reach the high 50s - 60% needed to risk a referendum.

What a load of shite! Your points are a smoke screen for a staunch No supporter. If I could demonstrate the streets will be paved with gold you would still vote No. 

Did you ask these questions before Brexit?

I really dont get why unionists think Scotland wouldnt thrive as a country without Boris etc.

Oh, & if we decide to use bawbee’s as currency, you can be sure it will be more powerful than Sterling. You can take that to the bank!

 

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gjcc
5 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

What a load of shite! Your points are a smoke screen for a staunch No supporter. If I could demonstrate the streets will be paved with gold you would still vote No. 

Did you ask these questions before Brexit?

I really dont get why unionists think Scotland wouldnt thrive as a country without Boris etc.

Oh, & if we decide to use bawbee’s as currency, you can be sure it will be more powerful than Sterling. You can take that to the bank!

 


Im all for calling the currency “riddys” in honour of Trap. 

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Joey J J Jr Shabadoo

Probably started when Jimmy Savile was paraded by the Tories. Reinforced when Prince Charles kept writing to his child abusing CoE Priest, after he'd been jailed (Balls, or something). 

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IronJambo
8 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

You chose to take that debt back in 2014.

Scotland's debt goes further back than that my friend.

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ri Alban
20 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

There he is!!!! Your mobile been in self isolation???

 

If we are independent and oil is a fiver a barrel, it’ll be 100% our fiver!

Great prices at the pump,for us Scots. Don't know about rUK. Renewable Energy, our water resources, oil and gas, now there's gold anaw. But hey, we're skint and need England to go into debt to help us poor Scots.

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IronJambo
26 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

There he is!!!! Your mobile been in self isolation???

 

If we are independent and oil is a fiver a barrel, it’ll be 100% our fiver!

100% of not very much still isn't very much.

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ri Alban
3 minutes ago, IronJambo said:

100% of not very much still isn't very much.

Oh dear. Pathetic!

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jambogaza
Posted (edited)

2014 was the moment for me, in the run up.

I have always been a labour man and still wish to return my vote to them. But I will continue to vote SNP until we get the second referendum we deserve.

Edited by jambogaza

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AlimOzturk
Posted (edited)

Voted labour when I was first eligible but Tony Blair taking the the country to war broke my Unionist spirit. The current Labour party are an embarrassment. 

 

SNP are the best of a bad bunch TBH. Habe had zero faith in any politician since Alex Salmond left the SNP. In saying that I do have high hope for mhairi black but not convinced she won't become a typical lying politician as the years pass. 

Edited by AlimOzturk

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IronJambo
53 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Oh dear. Pathetic!

I'm not sure why. "Not paying for Trident and we've got oil" is bust and isn't going to cut it next time around. I'd love there to be a real answer.

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Pans Jambo
7 minutes ago, IronJambo said:

I'm not sure why. "Not paying for Trident and we've got oil" is bust and isn't going to cut it next time around. I'd love there to be a real answer.

Not paying for trident, HS2, Foreign Wars that have nothing to do with us, House of Lords, Crossrail type projects, privatisation of the NHS, Nuclear bombs, nuclear power stations, bending over for Donald etc etc etc AND having oil is probably a wee starter for 10.

 

The Union is a dead man walking and if folk cant see that then I wont be any help to you.

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Pans Jambo
1 hour ago, IronJambo said:

100% of not very much still isn't very much.

"Though it sometimes goes down it can aye come back up"...

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Pans Jambo
1 hour ago, jambogaza said:

2014 was the moment for me, in the run up.

I have always been a labour man and still wish to return my vote to them. But I will continue to vote SNP until we get the second referendum we deserve.

Amen brother. This is me.

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Pans Jambo

I posted this on another thread. Makes you think...

 

I was listening to the chancellor when he announced his £330Bn package of assistance which he said was "15% of UK GDP".

 

So, 330/15 x 100 = 2200

 

Or £2.2Tn GDP UK

 

So Scotland being around 9% (ish) of the UK would average out as £198Billion pounds GDP from Scotland. (2200/100 x 9)

 

But wait, I thought we were only around £76Bn??????

 

How can this be???

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Ribble
9 hours ago, Jambos_1874 said:

 

That's fair and makes sense, but I still question whether they would be much better than MPs at Westminster.

 

I am a Unionist but if it could be clearly demonstrated that independence was better for me and the country as a whole, then I would vote for it, as contradictory as that sounds. However, the idea of independence has been around for a long time but some of the fundamental questions on how it would work have not been answered satisfactorily, if at all. I genuinely try to look at things objectively but I just cannot see how we could balance the books without masive cuts. It's often hard to have a discussion with a staunch Nationalist on this because they always seem to have selective hearing on this point.

 

I'm in the same boat where i'm not against the idea of independence, however my job requires me to put together business cases fairly regularly and if i'd ever put together a business case where when questioned my answer was that other companies have done the same thing and not laid out how it would apply to my company specifically or paraded the 'it'll be alright on the night' type response then i'd have no job!

 

If the Yessers want my vote and that of many others it won't be by shortbread tin, flag waving emotions it will have to be by answering the fundamental questions on how an independent scotland will function. I already know that westminster are crap, I don't need to be told that at every opportunity! What I do need to be told is how it would be better in an independent scotland, not just a soundbite that it would be better but a detailed response on HOW it would be better. 

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IronJambo
8 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Not paying for trident, HS2, Foreign Wars that have nothing to do with us, House of Lords, Crossrail type projects, privatisation of the NHS, Nuclear bombs, nuclear power stations, bending over for Donald etc etc etc AND having oil is probably a wee starter for 10.

 

The Union is a dead man walking and if folk cant see that then I wont be any help to you.

Not paying for things doesn't create an economy. You can't collect taxes if there are no jobs.

 

Can I ask you about HS2? It always puzzles me when people say it's a waste of money and we don't need it. Our rail infrastructure is awful. We still have semaphore signals in areas. A man in a box literally has to pull a lever to change the signal. A brand new, fast railway network is exactly what we need. It will reach Edinburgh. It'll probably reach Aberdeen. West/Easy branches can feed off it. It's very closed minded to say "boo, down with HS2". Most that do so complain about our railways, the irony is painful. It has to start somewhere.

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Pans Jambo
1 minute ago, IronJambo said:

Not paying for things doesn't create an economy. You can't collect taxes if there are no jobs.

 

Can I ask you about HS2? It always puzzles me when people say it's a waste of money and we don't need it. Our rail infrastructure is awful. We still have semaphore signals in areas. A man in a box literally has to pull a lever to change the signal. A brand new, fast railway network is exactly what we need. It will reach Edinburgh. It'll probably reach Aberdeen. West/Easy branches can feed off it. It's very closed minded to say "boo, down with HS2". Most that do so complain about our railways, the irony is painful. It has to start somewhere.

Like I said mate. Your a lost cause. Keep on ass licking the tories and leave me in peace.

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IronJambo
1 minute ago, Pans Jambo said:

Like I said mate. Your a lost cause. Keep on ass licking the tories and leave me in peace.

I've never voted conservative in my life.

 

There is also no need to try and be offensive. I didn't post anything towards you in that manner. If you can't justify why you don't like something just say so without being childish. 

 

I'm genuinely interested why you think HS2 is a waste of money. 

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jack D and coke
1 hour ago, gjcc said:


Im all for calling the currency “riddys” in honour of Trap. 

:rofl:

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