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Holiday/flight cancellations and refunds ( title updated )


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10 hours ago, Phage said:

The offered voucher is a tempter for the easy, we keep your money scenario that they are desperate for. A lot of people will just accept that and move on. Also a lot of people will take the voucher because....

 

They are being a little naughty and making it as difficult as possible to get through on the phone. Long waits, Ryanair staff not working etc etc

 

If you have been cancelled you can get your money back on the phone.

 

However it's worth considering the voucher if you are not in a position of needing the cash. Travel industry is in a mess and we should all do what we can to help businesses and each other.

 

 


 

Which airline do you work for ? If they had a shred of customer consideration about them I’m sure many people would consider helping them out. The fact is they look to squeeze every penny out of you every way you turn and make the most simplistic  of things very difficult and costly. Spare me if I don’t shed a tear for that particular industry. 

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davemclaren

Not sure what your consumer rights are if you accept a voucher. I doubt you are covered by ATOL, ABTA, travel insurance or even your credit card should the company default before you use it. 

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6 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Not sure what your consumer rights are if you accept a voucher. I doubt you are covered by ATOL, ABTA, travel insurance or even your credit card should the company default before you use it. 

 

There's not an option on the voucher email to accept or decline, obviously if you pursue the refund, the airline will know your intention. The voucher will only become live when purchasing new flights, so if the voucher isn't activated, the refund may still be obtainable, hopefully.

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Samuel Camazzola
20 hours ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

Yeah I can imagine. 

 

I'm just going to quote the T's and C's we agreed to upon time of booking and I took a screenshot of their website where it stated you were entitled to a full refund (they later removed that). I might phone them this weekend.

You'll get your refund no bother. My Jet2 trip was scheduled for 6th April and received an email from them a few days before regarding options. You'll have to call to arrange refund (as to be expected, they want to retain business) but this is no hassle. 

 

I already had another trip with them planned for October and used my refunded cash to book another trip for September as the deal was too good to miss. If both get cancelled, I'll get full refunds again. 

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Samuel Camazzola
On 21/04/2020 at 11:27, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

How am I not shocked at this.

 

My balance is due to be paid this Sunday with Jet2, for our holiday in July.

I'm not paying it, because

1)  I don't want to go now, I can't take the risk.

2)  Even if I did pay it then it got cancelled, I'd likely receive a credit note instead of my money back.

 

So it's simplier to just keep the money in the bank, at least I know I've got the cash here, and if by some miracle there is a vaccine or something, I've got the cash to book something and leave pretty much within a week or two.

 

If you pay the full balance and it's cancelled, you'll get full cash refund. If you don't pay, you'll be subject to lose the amount laid out in the Ts & Cs (unless you have an insurance policy that can back up your reasons for not being able to travel). 

 

 

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davemclaren
1 hour ago, Old Blue Eyes said:

 

There's not an option on the voucher email to accept or decline, obviously if you pursue the refund, the airline will know your intention. The voucher will only become live when purchasing new flights, so if the voucher isn't activated, the refund may still be obtainable, hopefully.

Not so sure but it will all out I suppose. For my Jet2 one in July I might just rebook for the year after, assuming it will be cancelled. 

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The Frenchman Returns

Where do you stand with a voucher if the travel agent / airline goes bust?

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davemclaren
4 minutes ago, The Frenchman Returns said:

Where do you stand with a voucher if the travel agent / airline goes bust?

That’s the point I’m making. I think you would just be an ordinary creditor 

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Lord BJ
10 minutes ago, The Frenchman Returns said:

Where do you stand with a voucher if the travel agent / airline goes bust?


I’m no expert but my take is they wouldn’t be a lot of use.

 

You have a voucher for some activity. In the event of it going bust you would be a creditor with that voucher and with no chance of getting anything back.

 

I don’t see how anyone would have any consumer protection with a voucher. Who would provide it ABTA, credit card company, banks etc I doubt would. So who repays you?

 

The reason you can get a refund, is they are obliged to by law. If they don’t exist there is no recourse as far as I could tell. Maybe your credit card company but not convinced personally.

 

I can understand why the airlines want people to take vouchers. I’m not convinced anyone should though. 
 

 

Edited by Lord BJ
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davemclaren
7 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:


I’m no expert but my take is they wouldn’t be a lot of use.

 

You have a voucher for some activity. In the event of it going bust you would be a creditor with that voucher and with no chance of getting anything back.

 

I don’t see how anyone would have any consumer protection with a voucher. Who would provide it ABTA, credit card company, banks etc I doubt would. So who repays you?

 

The reason you can get a refund, is they are obliged to by law. If they don’t exist there is no recourse as far as I could tell. Maybe your credit card company but not convinced personally.

 

I can understand why the airlines want people to take vouchers. I’m not convinced anyone should though. 
 

 

Unless ATOL and/or Abta underwrite them. 

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Lord BJ
Just now, davemclaren said:

Unless ATOL and/or Abta underwrite them. 


Which hasn’t happened. It could be done but it does require a change. I recall the issue from the Thomas Cook collapse.
 

I think it’s best dealing with the conditions as it stands, which is the vouchers are pretty worthless in the event of the airline/operator collapsing. The situation is obviously a bit different if you use voucher to book flight/holiday which is cancelled. ABTA and ATOL would kick back in again as should your protections.

 

A voucher in the event of collapse if worthless.

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The Frenchman Returns

Thanks chaps

 

I expect to have EasyJet Edi-Athens flights on 14th June cancelled soon. Unfortunately for me I booked all the component parts myself as I knew what I wanted and couldn't get it via a package holiday.

 

It will be house if cards trying to recoup the cost and I would actually book the same location, dates, accommodation again for June 2021 but flights are only currently on sale until Easter 21, so I will have to sit with Easyjet vouchers for a few months.

 

Greek ban on UK flights expires 15th May, my accommodation can be cancelled FOC up to 14th May, hopefully the Greeks make a decision early. Ferries are booked directly with Greek ferry company and they would appear to be offering vouchers too.

 

This will be the 3rd holiday in a row cancelled. (I absolutely get that this is only money but apart from the flight I would appear to be much safer in Greece)

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I think the voucher and the refund option should run simultaneously until one is actioned.

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Walter Payton
56 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:


I’m no expert but my take is they wouldn’t be a lot of use.

 

You have a voucher for some activity. In the event of it going bust you would be a creditor with that voucher and with no chance of getting anything back.

 

I don’t see how anyone would have any consumer protection with a voucher. Who would provide it ABTA, credit card company, banks etc I doubt would. So who repays you?

 

The reason you can get a refund, is they are obliged to by law. If they don’t exist there is no recourse as far as I could tell. Maybe your credit card company but not convinced personally.

 

I can understand why the airlines want people to take vouchers. I’m not convinced anyone should though. 
 

 

 

With regard to the bit in bold, the liability transfers to the merchant's acquiring bank if the merchant goes under- this is enforced by the card scheme rules. 

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trotter
1 hour ago, Lord BJ said:

I can understand why the airlines want people to take vouchers. I’m not convinced anyone should though. 
 

 

I fly United a lot and used them to fly back for a friends wedding last year. The return flight to Houston became an absolute farce, 2 cancelled flights, 3 stopovers, including an overnighter in Dallas to name some of the things that went wrong. 

 

Anyway, in addition to the compensation I got by calling up and yelling (metaphorically) at them, I claimed the €600 you are entitled to under European law. They e-mailed me back and said i can have have that in cash or $900 in vouchers. Like I said, I fly them a lot so the vouchers worked out best. All told, from that little debacle me and the missus walked away with roughly $1500 each in flight credit.

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The Fonz

Anyone had any covid19 dealings with KLM? Was due to be flying with them to Hamburg via Amsterdam this weekend. 
 

Their email confirm the flights are cancelled and the website just send you in a loop where the only options are to either change your flight to another date or claim a voucher, neither of which are any use to me. 
 

I’ve tried the phone line a few times to no avail and my strategy has been to just wait it out and claim a cash refund whenever I’m able to. No idea when this might be though and from looking online I think EU law means I’m entitled to a full refund if they’ve cancelled the flights. 

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Jambo-Jimbo
3 hours ago, Samuel Camazzola said:

If you pay the full balance and it's cancelled, you'll get full cash refund. If you don't pay, you'll be subject to lose the amount laid out in the Ts & Cs (unless you have an insurance policy that can back up your reasons for not being able to travel). 

 

 

 

I simply don't want to go now, that's why I will not be paying the balance, I'm more than prepared to lose my deposit.

 

Until there is an effective treatment and or a vaccine, it's stay at home for me, I simply can't take the chance.

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Stuart Lyon
27 minutes ago, The Fonz said:

Anyone had any covid19 dealings with KLM? Was due to be flying with them to Hamburg via Amsterdam this weekend. 
 

Their email confirm the flights are cancelled and the website just send you in a loop where the only options are to either change your flight to another date or claim a voucher, neither of which are any use to me. 
 

I’ve tried the phone line a few times to no avail and my strategy has been to just wait it out and claim a cash refund whenever I’m able to. No idea when this might be though and from looking online I think EU law means I’m entitled to a full refund if they’ve cancelled the flights. 

Try a direct approach to their CEO

https://www.ceoemail.com/s.php?id=ceo-10195

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TUI offering credit + an extra 20% covered by ATOL.

 

Will need to read the full small print once I officially get offered it. Not a bad deal on the face of it though.... of course til they bump the holidays up 20%

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Samuel Camazzola
2 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

I simply don't want to go now, that's why I will not be paying the balance, I'm more than prepared to lose my deposit.

 

Until there is an effective treatment and or a vaccine, it's stay at home for me, I simply can't take the chance.

👍 

 

Check your insurance policy as you may have something in there which will re-coup your deposit. A lot of insurers will have since changed their terms but these will only be applicable to bookings going forward. 

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The Frenchman Returns

From Reuters via a Greek news channel

 

The European Commission will next month present a set of rules for the safe reopening of air travel when coronavirus pandemic lockdowns end, including social distancing in airports and planes, the EU's transport chief said on Wednesday.

 

Transport Commissioner Adina Valean said that some social distancing rules in airports and planes will have to be respected to guarantee the safety of passengers, adding that measures under consideration would include the wearing of face masks and disinfection of planes and airports.

 

 

"All this should be part of those guidelines and probably by mid-May we can put forward this strategy we are working on," Valean said on Twitter.

 

Airlines have raised concerns that measures to slow the spread of the pandemic could blight profitability long after travel restrictions end. The International Air Transport Association (IATA) has estimated that the crisis could cost airlines a total of $314 billion.

 

Valean said she expects social distancing requirements to remain in place for as long as there is no Covid-19 treatment or vaccine.

"We expect the crisis to stay with us and the virus to stay with us," she said.

 

Alexandre de Juniac, IATA's director general, told Reuters on April 14 that conditions for a resumption of air travel are likely to include a requirement to leave the middle seat vacant on flights.

 

Such a measure could also help to head off a potential price war as airlines try to recoup market share as they emerge from the crisis.

 

Valean said it was not yet possible to say when the industry could resume operations.

 

"I cannot say right now when this is going to start happening because we have to listen to the advice of the health specialists," she said.

 

 

So for those of us still hoping to travel avoid booking the middle seat.

 

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Jambo-Jimbo
3 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

 Suspect air travel prices will increase after this. 

 

Especially if the middle seat is left vacant, as there will be roughly 60 less passengers on most planes (B737 or A320), therefore with 60 less passengers each flight will cost more per passenger to operate and less profit for the airlines per flight.

 

And the airlines ain't gonna have that, are they.

 

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Lord BJ
16 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Especially if the middle seat is left vacant, as there will be roughly 60 less passengers on most planes (B737 or A320), therefore with 60 less passengers each flight will cost more per passenger to operate and less profit for the airlines per flight.

 

And the airlines ain't gonna have that, are they.

 

 

If I’m honest I don’t get what leaving middle seat makes a huge difference. No doubt science behind it but surely pointless if family members and how any safer than removing person in front and behind?

 

I can understand spacing flights being strategically spaced out, wearing mask and all other manners of things but leaving middle seat blank seems random to me🤷🏻‍♂️

 

 

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28 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Especially if the middle seat is left vacant, as there will be roughly 60 less passengers on most planes (B737 or A320), therefore with 60 less passengers each flight will cost more per passenger to operate and less profit for the airlines per flight.

 

And the airlines ain't gonna have that, are they.

 

 

Average person 67 Kgs :rofl: plus 22 Kgs luggage = 89 Kgs.

 

89 Kgs x 60 = 5340 Kgs...The plane could carry this amount of extra freight to compensate for the reduced passenger revenue. This 5340 Kgs doesn't need fed and watered.

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54 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

 

If I’m honest I don’t get what leaving middle seat makes a huge difference. No doubt science behind it but surely pointless if family members and how any safer than removing person in front and behind?

 

I can understand spacing flights being strategically spaced out, wearing mask and all other manners of things but leaving middle seat blank seems random to me🤷🏻‍♂️

 

 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-8242893/Protective-hoods-airplane-seats-passengers-safe-coronavirus-pandemic.html

 

NINTCHDBPICT000578435083.jpg

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23 hours ago, Dazo said:


 

Which airline do you work for ? If they had a shred of customer consideration about them I’m sure many people would consider helping them out. The fact is they look to squeeze every penny out of you every way you turn and make the most simplistic  of things very difficult and costly. Spare me if I don’t shed a tear for that particular industry. 

 

Dont work for any airline. Dont use them either. Not had a holiday in about 10 years, so makes no odds to me if their services disappeared.

 

Just trying to think about the spirit of cooperation. Helping out others in the toughest of time. You know, the people that work for these companies, have a mortgage, maybe kids, maybe care for someone in need. Basically the countless thousands that would be made unemployed if any of the big firms went under.

 

So yeah I would still say if you can and you go on holiday regularly, consider the voucher.

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4 hours ago, Barack said:

:lol:

 

Wonderful. Shame it's the air conditioning that'll do the damage though...

 

Don't modern aircraft have HEPA (high efficiency particulate arrestance) filters fitted to the AC systems?

 

The controlled environment I'm working in at present (factory) has AC, should I worry?

 

I'd be more worried if the aircraft boarding officials allowed a passenger on the plane that had a constant uncotrollable cough.

 

Edited by Old Blue Eyes
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5 minutes ago, Old Blue Eyes said:

 

Don't modern aircraft have HEPA (high efficiency particulate arrestance) filters fitted to the AC systems?

 

The controlled environment I'm working in at present (factory) has AC, should I worry?

 

I'd be more worried if the aircraft boarding officials allowed a passenger on the plane that had a constant uncotrollable cough.

 

99.9% safe...apparently. Very good. Then there's the 0.1% chance

 

Studies have also shown, that more than one in five people who travel on planes suffer from a cold or the flu after the flight. 

 

More than one in five, 300 odd on a plane, multiply that by flights...anyway, the visor idea is bloody stupid. The flight attendants might as well go up and down the aisles wiping seats, trays, handles, seatbelts, toilets down from take-off to landing. 

 

In a closed tube at 35'000 feet, you're asking to be infected. Be it through touch or inhalation.

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The Real Maroonblood
11 minutes ago, Barack said:

99.9% safe...apparently. Very good. Then there's the 0.1% chance

 

Studies have also shown, that more than one in five people who travel on planes suffer from a cold or the flu after the flight. 

 

More than one in five, 300 odd on a plane, multiply that by flights...anyway, the visor idea is bloody stupid. The flight attendants might as well go up and down the aisles wiping seats, trays, handles, seatbelts, toilets down from take-off to landing. 

 

In a closed tube at 35'000 feet, you're asking to be infected. Be it through touch or inhalation.

Apparently the head rests are brutal for germs.

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Just now, The Real Maroonblood said:

Apparently the head rests are brutal for germs.

It's all a petri dish. Quite happy not to set foot on a plane for another year or so, until a stringent workable solution is found. 

 

Once flights start up again, I wonder what will happen. 🤔

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The Real Maroonblood
1 minute ago, Barack said:

It's all a petri dish. Quite happy not to set foot on a plane for another year or so, until a stringent workable solution is found. 

 

Once flights start up again, I wonder what will happen. 🤔

That’ll be interesting when they start back up again.

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25 minutes ago, Barack said:

99.9% safe...apparently. Very good. Then there's the 0.1% chance

 

Studies have also shown, that more than one in five people who travel on planes suffer from a cold or the flu after the flight. 

 

More than one in five, 300 odd on a plane, multiply that by flights...anyway, the visor idea is bloody stupid. The flight attendants might as well go up and down the aisles wiping seats, trays, handles, seatbelts, toilets down from take-off to landing. 

 

In a closed tube at 35'000 feet, you're asking to be infected. Be it through touch or inhalation.

 

0.1% chance, no a betting man then eh?

 

Only been on a plane once with another 319  passengers, 24 of them were family members, Aunt's, Uncle's cousins, you get my drift. For the fornight we were away, none developed any of the 2 ailments you mentioned above, were we just lucky?

 

At present, the aircraft that's still flying are being disinfected after each flight.

 

The closed tube you mentioned, you are aware that the air in a modern aircrafts ventilation system is replenished 15 times per hour?

Edited by Old Blue Eyes
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davemclaren

This could be the first year since 1985 that I haven’t flown at least once. Need to add that to longest number of days without being in a pub Since 1974. 

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11 minutes ago, Old Blue Eyes said:

 

0.1% chance, no a betting man then eh?

 

Only been on a plane once with another 319  passengers, 24 of them were family members, Aunt's, Uncle's cousins, you get my drift. For the fornight we were away, none developed any of the 2 ailments you mentioned above, were we just lucky?

 

At present, the aircraft that's still flying are being disinfected after each flight.

 

The closed tube you mentioned, you are aware that the air in a modern aircrafts ventilation system is replenished 15 times per hour?

Yes, I do.👍🏻 Did you keep in touch with the other 295 including crew, and ask them if they were as lucky as yourself and your family? 

 

You do what you like, chief. Hope you don't catch it.

Edited by Barack
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5 hours ago, Phage said:

 

Dont work for any airline. Dont use them either. Not had a holiday in about 10 years, so makes no odds to me if their services disappeared.

 

Just trying to think about the spirit of cooperation. Helping out others in the toughest of time. You know, the people that work for these companies, have a mortgage, maybe kids, maybe care for someone in need. Basically the countless thousands that would be made unemployed if any of the big firms went under.

 

So yeah I would still say if you can and you go on holiday regularly, consider the voucher.

 

I've just been offered a voucher from Ryanair after already declining and requesting a cash refund, there was 8 of us meant to be travelling and can't just rebook as not all 8 may be able to travel together at the same time in the next year. Ryanair now saying cash refunds will be placed in a queue until Covid is over!!

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The Real Maroonblood
25 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

This could be the first year since 1985 that I haven’t flown at least once. Need to add that to longest number of days without being in a pub Since 1974. 

Recently just sent a text to my mate.

5 weeks tomorrow since I was in a pub.

1974  I would be the same.

Do I miss it?

Bloody right I do.🍺

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10 minutes ago, Ribble said:

 

I've just been offered a voucher from Ryanair after already declining and requesting a cash refund, there was 8 of us meant to be travelling and can't just rebook as not all 8 may be able to travel together at the same time in the next year. Ryanair now saying cash refunds will be placed in a queue until Covid is over!!

 

You can use the voucher for separate flights on different months until the voucher is exhausted.

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1 minute ago, Old Blue Eyes said:

 

You can use the voucher for separate flights on different months until the voucher is exhausted.

 

I'm aware of that and I personally might use ryanair later in the year but the other 7 people probably won't, i'd much rather not be lumbered with the expense of covering 7 others peoples refunds in case I can use the voucher 

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Jambo-Jimbo
2 hours ago, Barack said:

99.9% safe...apparently. Very good. Then there's the 0.1% chance

 

Studies have also shown, that more than one in five people who travel on planes suffer from a cold or the flu after the flight. 

 

More than one in five, 300 odd on a plane, multiply that by flights...anyway, the visor idea is bloody stupid. The flight attendants might as well go up and down the aisles wiping seats, trays, handles, seatbelts, toilets down from take-off to landing. 

 

In a closed tube at 35'000 feet, you're asking to be infected. Be it through touch or inhalation.

 

Not on Ryanair flights you don't unless you've paid extra for it, you get feck all for free off Ryanair, even the cold. 🤣

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Walter Payton
2 hours ago, Ribble said:

 

I've just been offered a voucher from Ryanair after already declining and requesting a cash refund, there was 8 of us meant to be travelling and can't just rebook as not all 8 may be able to travel together at the same time in the next year. Ryanair now saying cash refunds will be placed in a queue until Covid is over!!

 

See my earlier advice about the consumer Contracts Regulations 2013. There's no reason you should have to wait longer than 14 days, protected by law, for your refund from the time they had to cancel. Give them 1 chance of acknowledging that and processing your refund, otherwise take it to your issuing bank and ask them to process a chargeback on the grounds you never received the service you paid for. 

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luckydug
9 hours ago, Phage said:

 

Dont work for any airline. Dont use them either. Not had a holiday in about 10 years, so makes no odds to me if their services disappeared.

 

Just trying to think about the spirit of cooperation. Helping out others in the toughest of time. You know, the people that work for these companies, have a mortgage, maybe kids, maybe care for someone in need. Basically the countless thousands that would be made unemployed if any of the big firms went under.

 

So yeah I would still say if you can and you go on holiday regularly, consider the voucher.

I think if an airline (in my case Ryanair) had left 'YOU' stranded abroad during a lockdown you would not be quite as sympathetic to their plight. 

Trust and cooperation is a two way agreement and scum like Ryanair executives don't know the concept of these things. 

Cancelled their flights back to Scotland 36 hours before departure and left people to try and rebook with other airlines. In our case costing £1700 for two one way tickets home. 

They also closed their telephone lines and online help desk. 

Ryanair should not be allowed to operate, they are not fit to run an airline. 

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Jambo-Jimbo
13 hours ago, luckydug said:

I think if an airline (in my case Ryanair) had left 'YOU' stranded abroad during a lockdown you would not be quite as sympathetic to their plight. 

Trust and cooperation is a two way agreement and scum like Ryanair executives don't know the concept of these things. 

Cancelled their flights back to Scotland 36 hours before departure and left people to try and rebook with other airlines. In our case costing £1700 for two one way tickets home. 

They also closed their telephone lines and online help desk. 

Ryanair should not be allowed to operate, they are not fit to run an airline. 

 

It is not by chance or just bad luck that Ryanair have been voted the World's worst airline 6 years on the trot, no, there is a very good reason why they are the worst.

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luckydug
26 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

It is not by chance or just bad luck that Ryanair have been voted the World's worst airline 6 years on the trot, no, there is a very good reason why they are the worst.

Didn't know that before,

I do now though 😕

It's going to be very difficult for them to operate for the foreseeable future. 

Social distancing is with us for a long time so flights will only be 2/3 full at best. 

Won't suit their operating model at all. 

Foreign travel will return to being something only high earners can afford imo. 

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15 hours ago, luckydug said:

I think if an airline (in my case Ryanair) had left 'YOU' stranded abroad during a lockdown you would not be quite as sympathetic to their plight. 

Trust and cooperation is a two way agreement and scum like Ryanair executives don't know the concept of these things. 

Cancelled their flights back to Scotland 36 hours before departure and left people to try and rebook with other airlines. In our case costing £1700 for two one way tickets home. 

They also closed their telephone lines and online help desk. 

Ryanair should not be allowed to operate, they are not fit to run an airline. 

 

Which airline charged you £850 each for a one way ticket?

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Jambo-Jimbo
40 minutes ago, luckydug said:

Didn't know that before,

I do now though 😕

It's going to be very difficult for them to operate for the foreseeable future. 

Social distancing is with us for a long time so flights will only be 2/3 full at best. 

Won't suit their operating model at all. 

Foreign travel will return to being something only high earners can afford imo. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jan/05/strike-hit-ryanair-ranked-worst-airline-for-sixth-year-in-a-row

 

O'Leary has already said that he won't be leaving the middle seat empty and if he did he wants the Irish Government/EU to pay compo to him for it.

 

Edited by Jambo-Jimbo
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