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The rise and fall of The SNP.


Zlatanable

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Seymour M Hersh
1 hour ago, Smithee said:

 

Standard & Poor's have confirmed that an independent Scotland would start with a AAA credit rating, while the UK were downgraded to AA a few years ago and are in danger of dropping further.

 

Scotland would actually have access to lower interest rates, but thanks for bringing it up.

 

Really? I wonder what's changed from 2014 when they (could only obviously) predicted an independent Scotland would start with a credit rating of 'A'.  

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Boy Daniel
Just now, coconut doug said:

 

It would be better if you had a semblance of understanding about the issue you wish to pontificate about. I'm not picking a fight i'm challenging the nonsense you have written. 

   Why is it that you can't substantiate your points and then think you have the right to be rude when challenged? 

You might think I’m posting nonsense that’s you opinion which you are entitled to but it’s not nonsense. I don’t need to be an expert to make a comment or voice an opinion. I have every right to do so. 
you are picking a fight and that’s well seen in the tone of what you type and the way you entered the discussion. Go away and think about how you discuss something with someone with coming over as an arrogant Pratt. 

Anyway I’ve never blocked anyone yet you just might be the first. 

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JackLadd
1 hour ago, NANOJAMBO said:

It's not about me and I'm not demanding anything - as you are well aware.

And for the record , we're looking to come home and have already  spent time in the s west looking for a house.

Good luck with the diaspora. 

I've got to hand it to you, you got your arse on a plate the last time we "debated" but spare me the invective. But then if you didn't have insults you wouldn't have anything. 

 

I just put your anglo nat arse on a plate you mean, looking for a house in the s west..😆

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Cardiff Hearts

Some very uninformed people on here.

 

An independent Scotland, post CV19, would not attract a AAA sovereign risk rating from any agency. As a new independent nation , no track record of issuance of performance, why would it attract prime risk rating. More likely, junk status and resultant higher borrowing costs.

 

Furthermore, what currency would said bonds be denominated in ? A new currency with its inherent instabilities would add to the risk and hence both likely coupon and yield. 
 

The naivety that we can just issue paper and raise billions is terrifying. 

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Pans Jambo

5000 thousand additional new SNP members since yesterday. Some “fall” that!

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12 minutes ago, Cardiff Hearts said:

Some very uninformed people on here.

 

An independent Scotland, post CV19, would not attract a AAA sovereign risk rating from any agency. As a new independent nation , no track record of issuance of performance, why would it attract prime risk rating. More likely, junk status and resultant higher borrowing costs.

 

Furthermore, what currency would said bonds be denominated in ? A new currency with its inherent instabilities would add to the risk and hence both likely coupon and yield. 
 

The naivety that we can just issue paper and raise billions is terrifying. 

Are you from Cardiff? 

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Konrad von Carstein
10 minutes ago, Cardiff Hearts said:

Some very uninformed people on here.

 

An independent Scotland, post CV19, would not attract a AAA sovereign risk rating from any agency. As a new independent nation , no track record of issuance of performance, why would it attract prime risk rating. More likely, junk status and resultant higher borrowing costs.

 

Furthermore, what currency would said bonds be denominated in ? A new currency with its inherent instabilities would add to the risk and hence both likely coupon and yield. 
 

The naivety that we can just issue paper and raise billions is terrifying. 

Ah, well, it was a nice idea, but this guys says, we'd be fecked as an independent nation, so lets not bother

:berra:

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Weakened Offender
7 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

5000 thousand additional new SNP members since yesterday. Some “fall” that!

 

It's played out terribly for them. Normal, decent people saw through it. 

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Zlatanable
19 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

5000 thousand additional new SNP members since yesterday. Some “fall” that!

 

10 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

It's played out terribly for them. Normal, decent people saw through it. 

Calm your jets, is my advice. 

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Zlatanable
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

Standard & Poor's have confirmed that an independent Scotland would start with a AAA credit rating, while the UK were downgraded to AA a few years ago and are in danger of dropping further.

 

Scotland would actually have access to lower interest rates, but thanks for bringing it up.

 

3 hours ago, Smithee said:

It doesn't need to beat the world to beat the UK

 

2 hours ago, Smithee said:

The UK are getting low rates just now, Scotland's would be even lower. That's how it works, that's what the credit ratings decide, and S&P are the biggest of the big 3 in that game.

 

 

2 hours ago, Smithee said:

It's simply based on us having a modern first world economy with no negative track record re. debt and repayments. I was reading about it a couple of months ago, pretty interesting, you'd think you'd start at the bottom and work your way up but I'm no expert in these things

Some might call these posts pathetically stupid. Others might call them just plain ignorant.

I will always remember you are no expert in these things.

You often make me laugh out loud. 

 

Edited by Zlatanable
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The Maroon Pound
53 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

5000 thousand additional new SNP members since yesterday. Some “fall” that!

But they were still snp supporters on Tuesday just now paying supporters, suckers 

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BarneyBattles
18 minutes ago, Ma Roon said:

But they were still snp supporters on Tuesday just now paying supporters, 

Edited by BarneyBattles
Pointless.
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NANOJAMBO
1 hour ago, JackLadd said:

 

I just put your anglo nat arse on a plate you mean, looking for a house in the s west..😆

.anglo nat arse :facepalm:

Edit : it took you 3 hours to come up with this ? :rofl:

Join the grown ups and have  a debate.

 

Edited by NANOJAMBO
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NANOJAMBO
1 hour ago, Cardiff Hearts said:

Some very uninformed people on here.

 

An independent Scotland, post CV19, would not attract a AAA sovereign risk rating from any agency. As a new independent nation , no track record of issuance of performance, why would it attract prime risk rating. More likely, junk status and resultant higher borrowing costs.

 

Furthermore, what currency would said bonds be denominated in ? A new currency with its inherent instabilities would add to the risk and hence both likely coupon and yield. 
 

The naivety that we can just issue paper and raise billions is terrifying. 

That's not the point at issue here.

And do you have a view on the merits of the Scottish economy (good or bad) that might inform any such lending ? 

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JDK2020
1 hour ago, Pans Jambo said:

5000 thousand additional new SNP members since yesterday. Some “fall” that!

 

"5000 thousand"

 

So, 5,000,000?

 

Who was counting, Kate Forbes or Derek Mackay?  😆

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manaliveits105

5000 new members and triple A ratings - the edict has obviously come down from Murrell Mansion to the activists  that lying is acceptable - it’s the new norm for snp 

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Smithee
5 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

Some might call these posts pathetically stupid. Others might call them just plain ignorant.

I will always remember you are no expert in these things.

You often make me laugh out loud. 

 

I always prefer when your mask slips and you show you're not the wide eyed innocent you like to portray.

 

6 hours ago, Cardiff Hearts said:

Some very uninformed people on here.

 

An independent Scotland, post CV19, would not attract a AAA sovereign risk rating from any agency. As a new independent nation , no track record of issuance of performance, why would it attract prime risk rating. More likely, junk status and resultant higher borrowing costs.

 

Furthermore, what currency would said bonds be denominated in ? A new currency with its inherent instabilities would add to the risk and hence both likely coupon and yield. 
 

The naivety that we can just issue paper and raise billions is terrifying. 

 

If I find the interview with the guy from S&P I'll post it, I can live with you not believing me in the meantime.

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Captain Sausage
5 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

That's not the point at issue here.

And do you have a view on the merits of the Scottish economy (good or bad) that might inform any such lending ? 


I guess my starting point in 2014, which hasn’t shifted, is the fundamental point that pound for pound Scotland receives more from the U.K. than it gives back.

 

I think anyone who argues that an independent Scotland free of the tyranny of Westminster would suddenly be some sort of flourishing economic anomaly is completely disingenuous. 
 

To maintain all of the ‘extras’ that Scotland received (free prescriptions, free university, etc) would require an independent Scotland to either tax more, or borrow more (per capita), then rUK. 
 

For me, the choice to be independent fundamentally comes down to:

Is it worth the financial impact to govern independently? With the shenanigans that have gone on over the last 5 years, my answer to that question is a lot less clear. 

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6 hours ago, JDK2020 said:

 

"5000 thousand"

 

So, 5,000,000?

 

Who was counting, Kate Forbes or Derek Mackay?  😆

It was good of Celtic to loan them their Seville calculator.

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Justin Z
8 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

Some might call these posts pathetically stupid. Others might call them just plain ignorant.

I will always remember you are no expert in these things.

You often make me laugh out loud. 

 

 

@Ulysses Your post was 100% accurate and justified.

 

2 hours ago, Smithee said:

I always prefer when your mask slips and you show you're not the wide eyed innocent you like to portray.

 

:spoton:

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Justin Z
1 hour ago, Captain Sausage said:

I guess my starting point in 2014, which hasn’t shifted, is the fundamental point that pound for pound Scotland receives more from the U.K. than it gives back.

 

Would you say that's a point that's becoming harder and harder to stick to given what we continue to learn about the way these pounds actually get accounted for? I shared an admittedly biased counterpoint to this idea further up thread, but it had a lot of pretty good raw information in spite of its intent.

 

1 hour ago, Captain Sausage said:

I think anyone who argues that an independent Scotland free of the tyranny of Westminster would suddenly be some sort of flourishing economic anomaly is completely disingenuous.  

 

Agreed, but rarely have I seen it put forth quite this blatantly. There'd be lots of work to do, but then, there always is.

 

1 hour ago, Captain Sausage said:

To maintain all of the ‘extras’ that Scotland received (free prescriptions, free university, etc) would require an independent Scotland to either tax more, or borrow more (per capita), then rUK. 

 

 

Because of the shoogly peg I see the starting point hanging on, I don't agree here. I'm comfortably convinced public services would expand once the albatross of the UK's financial mismanagement (and outright exploitation) was off the neck of Scotland.

 

2 hours ago, Captain Sausage said:

For me, the choice to be independent fundamentally comes down to:

Is it worth the financial impact to govern independently? With the shenanigans that have gone on over the last 5 years, my answer to that question is a lot less clear. 

 

However, even if you don't agree with me about the shoogly peg of the initial point, there are always other similarly-sized nations with similar (or worse) resources to look at. There are lots of examples, but Norway's sovereign oil fund is my favourite—they have used a fraction of it to help pay for the economic impact of Covid. If Scotland had been independent at the start of the 1970s, it could already have one of those, also worth a trillion dollars, by now.

 

If Scotland doesn't become independent, what are we going to look back at in ten, twenty, thirty, fifty years and say "Scotland could've had that" too? We don't know yet. Is it worth another trillion of risk to just carry on as-is?

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Maroon Sailor
30 minutes ago, Stuart Lyon said:

Sorry if posted before

 

 

 

It has been posted before but worth a reminder that this is her evidence and she answered every question so everybody in her camp or more to the point believe she is the best bet for Scotland becoming independent camp (they don't care she suffers from selective memory loss) see this as a joyous victory.

 

This woman has done nothing but moan, groan, stomp her feet, complain, campaign and hoodwink all her political life. Can you imagine the state of iScotland when she has nobody to blame (but she will find somebody, that's her nature).Her political life has been to make herself look good by putting others down.

 

A horrible, sleekit individual

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Maroon Sailor
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Janbo1874
27 minutes ago, Stuart Lyon said:

Sorry if posted before

 

 

 
 
 
You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.
Abraham Lincoln
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1 hour ago, Stuart Lyon said:

Sorry if posted before

 

 


And snp supporters are soiling themselves over her performance? 😂

 

 

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JackLadd
9 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

.anglo nat arse :facepalm:

Edit : it took you 3 hours to come up with this ? :rofl:

Join the grown ups and have  a debate.

 

 

Repeating the same language you used my little nano brained shire boy. 

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Captain Sausage
1 hour ago, Justin Z said:

 

Would you say that's a point that's becoming harder and harder to stick to given what we continue to learn about the way these pounds actually get accounted for? I shared an admittedly biased counterpoint to this idea further up thread, but it had a lot of pretty good raw information in spite of its intent.

 

 

Agreed, but rarely have I seen it put forth quite this blatantly. There'd be lots of work to do, but then, there always is.

 

 

Because of the shoogly peg I see the starting point hanging on, I don't agree here. I'm comfortably convinced public services would expand once the albatross of the UK's financial mismanagement (and outright exploitation) was off the neck of Scotland.

 

 

However, even if you don't agree with me about the shoogly peg of the initial point, there are always other similarly-sized nations with similar (or worse) resources to look at. There are lots of examples, but Norway's sovereign oil fund is my favourite—they have used a fraction of it to help pay for the economic impact of Covid. If Scotland had been independent at the start of the 1970s, it could already have one of those, also worth a trillion dollars, by now.

 

If Scotland doesn't become independent, what are we going to look back at in ten, twenty, thirty, fifty years and say "Scotland could've had that" too? We don't know yet. Is it worth another trillion of risk to just carry on as-is?


Lots of good points here JZ. 
 

First off, I totally agree about the Norway model. You can see evidence of this in Shetland where they have a surplus as a result of the oil industry. If Scotland had been independent, and managed it like the Norwegians, we would be laughing. Sadly we didn’t. 
 

Indyref came along in 2013/4 when the oil price was still $100-120. It’s currently $60-70 and most analysts agree it’ll not rise to previous heights ever again. So the white paper financials already have a massive hole in it that would need to be filled - with no clear route to where that comes from. 
 

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-has-scotland-subsidised-the-rest-of-the-uk
 

Interesting article here which, for me, hints that current status is very likely to show a deficit for Scotland, hence the lack of published data since 2013. Would be good to have it updated to 2019 figures at least. 
 

For me, the real question is whether independence is worth the fiscal pain it will inflict (at least in the short to medium term, although likely the long term too). In reality, Scotland will be unable to join the EU (thanks to Spain) and will be putting a hard border in place with rUK, our largest trading partner. Is the risk worth it, to get out from underneath the circus that is Westminster? It’s a very subjective question. 
 

And building on that, would Scottish politicians be any better? In my honest opinion, they are all a shower of power hungry, narcissistic, selfish incompetents - much more in common with the English and Welsh politicians than they’d care to admit. 
 

Hard choices to make. More division inevitable. Just not a great situation in honesty!

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JackLadd
1 minute ago, Dazo said:


And snp supporters are soiling themselves over her performance? 😂

 

 

 

 

Salmond or some fiendish yoon erased her memory along the lines of an alien abduction will be the next excuse. Cannot be she is a lying crook, not oor Nicola. Naw naw..🤔🙄

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Maroon Sailor

Good post Captain Sausage

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Justin Z
5 minutes ago, Captain Sausage said:

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-has-scotland-subsidised-the-rest-of-the-uk

 

 

 

Interesting article here which, for me, hints that current status is very likely to show a deficit for Scotland, hence the lack of published data since 2013. Would be good to have it updated to 2019 figures at least.

 

Yeah, that is interesting. I think it goes without saying that more robust economic data needs to be available. But the counter to that is that we are hamstrung by the UK government's accounting practices, which suits them just fine, since one of their arguments is that Indy can't/won't make a sound economic case.

 

6 minutes ago, Captain Sausage said:

And building on that, would Scottish politicians be any better? In my honest opinion, they are all a shower of power hungry, narcissistic, selfish incompetents - much more in common with the English and Welsh politicians than they’d care to admit.

 

I think with that truism in mind, the importance of having a truly representative government is paramount. The UK, for me, is about the furthest thing from that (the US aside) that there can be.

 

  

2 minutes ago, Captain Sausage said:

Hard choices to make. More division inevitable. Just not a great situation in honesty!

 

Agreed, and thanks. I don't want to belabour my points any further, and your thoughts stand on their own, but I did just want to point out I didn't bring up the oil fund as an argument going forward, but rather hopefully as a different perspective: what Scotland has already lost by not being independent. The door has pretty much closed on that opportunity. What will the next one be—and will Scotland miss out on it too?

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manaliveits105
1 hour ago, Stuart Lyon said:

Sorry if posted before

 

 

Basically the snp answers to why we should be independent 

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Hagar the Horrible
38 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Basically the snp answers to why we should be independent 

It was the same answer to what currency we would have to suffer

 

Violet Elizabeth cant answer a single question but knows everything, remembers nothing, just waiting on an actial claim to being sick

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Pans Jambo

:seething:Wee nippy didnt get fired!

 

:conspiracy: But Wee Eck said she lied

I was positive she was toast:hartley:

 

Unionists: :silviodamn: How can we next try to get rid of a democratically elected government in Scotland?

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jack D and coke
7 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

:seething:Wee nippy didnt get fired!

 

:conspiracy: But Wee Eck said she lied

I was positive she was toast:hartley:

 

Unionists: :silviodamn: How can we next try to get rid of a democratically elected government in Scotland?

:lol: 

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JDK2020
5 hours ago, Candy said:

It was good of Celtic to loan them their Seville calculator.

 

Yeah, exactly. 😄

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Justin Z
3 hours ago, Maroon Sailor said:

Good post Captain Sausage

 

A really good post, yeah. Full of “facts and figures he found on the internet that suits his thought process” . . .

 

:interehjrling:

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weehammy
13 hours ago, JDK2020 said:

 

"5000 thousand"

 

So, 5,000,000?

 

Who was counting, Kate Forbes or Derek Mackay?  😆

Derek’s busy counting the dosh he’s trousered in the last year as an invisible MSP.

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Boy Daniel
1 minute ago, Costanza said:

😅 The Tories have Hibs'd it.

 

 

Well let’s hope he does the honourable  and resign. However he’s not an honourable man just ask his ex wives. 

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16 minutes ago, Costanza said:

😅 The Tories have Hibs'd it.

 

 

Found guilty by a court that has misled Parliament 🤔 He should resign immediately. Surely everyone on this thread would be in agreement for once. 🤣

 

tenor.gif

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jack D and coke
25 minutes ago, Tambo_The_Jambo said:

Just had this right over the top of my house in Falkirk.....

1519C443-7A37-4CBF-9448-0FDAD8276C84.jpeg

Odds on it being the same 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡 who’s paid for Robbies? 
😂

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Maroon Sailor
39 minutes ago, Tambo_The_Jambo said:

Just had this right over the top of my house in Falkirk.....

1519C443-7A37-4CBF-9448-0FDAD8276C84.jpeg

 

I seen that today but too far away to make out what it said.

 

 

Edited by Maroon Sailor
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Randy Marsh
1 hour ago, Tambo_The_Jambo said:

Just had this right over the top of my house in Falkirk.....

1519C443-7A37-4CBF-9448-0FDAD8276C84.jpeg

Haha.  I heard this plane at around 2pm but I couldn't make out what it said.  Thought it may have  said 'phoodle out'.  Imagine how pathetic your life must be to actually do something like that.  Total weirdos. 🤣

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20 minutes ago, Boy Daniel said:

More people speaking out know. 
 

 

image.jpeg.3598cd30ce8876f3828da94bd57adbc0.jpeg

 

 

More 'people'? 

 

That's an ad board mate ;) 

 

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SE16 3LN

Just been reading about the Nationalist Party membership phenomenon. It appears they attracted 5000 new members in the 24 hours after the referendum defeat in 2014, 5000 new members after each Tory election victory, 5000 new members after the brexit referendum and 5000 after the SNP MP's minced out of the House of Commons. Along with the 100 a day the attract normally they must now have more members than the number of Celtic fans that went to Seville. Impressive stats...

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manaliveits105

Absolutely if Boris broke ministerial code he should resign and let Rishi take over .

 

Pressure growing on Sturgeon too only her cult followers and compliant Scottish media fell for her forgetful performance 

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