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The rise and fall of The SNP.


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3 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:


do you feel she should resign l?

I don't know TBH. When I look around the world sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. I think she's generally well meaning and a good politician but I probably lean towards yes she should. More because of the damage to her credibility and that of her party and the damage to the cause of independence rather than out of moral outrage though. I think this is something that not only has to be dealt with, it also has to be seen to be dealt with.

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4 minutes ago, Smithee said:

I don't know TBH. When I look around the world sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. I think she's generally well meaning and a good politician but I probably lean towards yes she should. More because of the damage to her credibility and that of her party and the damage to the cause of independence rather than out of moral outrage though. I think this is something that not only has to be dealt with, it also has to be seen to be dealt with.


Fair comment. 👍

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Brighton Jambo
On 03/03/2021 at 19:43, Cruyff said:

You're living in a dream man.

 

If she is cleared, that'll be the end of the matter. The headlines will read "Sturgeon cleared", "Sturgeon didn't break the Ministerial Code" etc.. . None of the opposition parties could even dare bring it up as they are part of the inquiry. 

 

So yep, purely wishful thinking on your part. 

 

So turns out she wasn’t cleared.  Found to have misled a parliamentary committee.  A committee that had a pro independence majority as well.  
 

Others have been made to resign from Holyrood for much much less.  
 

I kind of hope she stays, she is toxic to the independence brand.  The hardcore will always support her but floating voters and undecideds will not be impressed.  

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Brighton Jambo
14 minutes ago, Smithee said:

I don't know TBH. When I look around the world sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. I think she's generally well meaning and a good politician but I probably lean towards yes she should. More because of the damage to her credibility and that of her party and the damage to the cause of independence rather than out of moral outrage though. I think this is something that not only has to be dealt with, it also has to be seen to be dealt with.

The reason I think she should (and I acknowledge I am biased) is that she was vocal about Wendy Alexander resigning over a £950 expenses claim.  While Henry McLeish resigned for not declaring he sublet part of his office.  
 

She has been found to have misled a parliamentary committee in offering to assist a former first minister accused of serious sexual offences.

 

It would just be unbelievable double standards to not resign.  
 

 

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The key will be if knowingly misled.

If knowingly then she has to resign.

Btw its also perfectly acceptable to say if the Scottish Tories say she should resign, then Johnson has to as well.

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manaliveits105

Didn’t include “knowingly” misled 

so may hinge on the Hamilton report

Panorama on at 8.pm Sturgeon v Salmond 

Edited by manaliveits105
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3 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

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This is utterly pathetic by the Sturgeon. She said all along wait for the results of the committee. Absolutely and utterly shocking statement. She had 4 SNP memebers on in ffs. So she doesn’t believe in parliamentary committees then?

Edited by AlimOzturk
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15 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

So turns out she wasn’t cleared.  Found to have misled a parliamentary committee.  A committee that had a pro independence majority as well.  
 

Others have been made to resign from Holyrood for much much less.  
 

I kind of hope she stays, she is toxic to the independence brand.  The hardcore will always support her but floating voters and undecideds will not be impressed.  

She should resign for the very reasons you have suggested. 

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25 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

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That is an outrageous, disrespectful and contemptuous statement. 
 

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Captain Slog
5 minutes ago, Boy Daniel said:


That is an outrageous, disrespectful and contemptuous statement. 
 

I read that statement as saying that the four committee members who voted that she did not mislead prejudged the First Minister before she gave evidence, and were partisan,

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"So I intend now to rest on that, to allow both the committee and the inquiry on the ministerial code to conclude their work.”

 

The Committee are biased and prejudiced. So much for letting them do their work!

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3 minutes ago, Captain Slog said:

I read that statement as saying that the four committee members who voted that she did not mislead prejudged the First Minister before she gave evidence, and were partisan,

She is claiming they prejudged her before the hearing started 

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Roxy Hearts
2 minutes ago, Boy Daniel said:

"So I intend now to rest on that, to allow both the committee and the inquiry on the ministerial code to conclude their work.”

 

The Committee are biased and prejudiced. So much for letting them do their work!

We don't know but would you trust them to be impartial? They're unionists which means lying is a given. Fraser, Baillie, Cole-Hamilton are a stain on Scotland more than Sturgeon. Moronic hypocrites.

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1 minute ago, Roxy Hearts said:

We don't know but would you trust them to be impartial? They're unionists which means lying is a given. Fraser, Baillie, Cole-Hamilton are a stain on Scotland more than Sturgeon. Moronic hypocrites.

It now appears lying is an SNP thing. If the SNP want to be squeaky clean and be above the rest of them then she has to go. 

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Seymour M Hersh
2 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

We don't know but would you trust them to be impartial? They're unionists which means lying is a given. Fraser, Baillie, Cole-Hamilton are a stain on Scotland more than Sturgeon. Moronic hypocrites.

 

:rofl:

 

In every dream home a heartache. Eh! 

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Brighton Jambo

Like Cruyff has acknowledged what I genuinely don’t understand is why supporters of the SNP and Independence are standing by her.  
 

Surely you can’t believe that she is now helping you achieve your goals.  A month ago a majority was locked up, now it looks 50/50.  20 polls in a row had yes ahead and now 6 in a row (till today) had no ahead.  There is no way today’s news makes either of these things better.  She will be such a turn off to floating voters and undecideds.

 

Can any yes/SNP supporter answer this as I just don’t get it? 

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kingantti1874
9 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

We don't know but would you trust them to be impartial? They're unionists which means lying is a given. Fraser, Baillie, Cole-Hamilton are a stain on Scotland more than Sturgeon. Moronic hypocrites.


55% of the country are liars 😂 SNP are happy to mislead people that we would somehow be better off from an economic perspective, happy to buy votes by writing cheques we can’t cash. 

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Roxy Hearts
7 minutes ago, Boy Daniel said:

It now appears lying is an SNP thing. If the SNP want to be squeaky clean and be above the rest of them then she has to go. 

My main point is the hypocritical way unionist politicians behave and have some form!

4 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Despite voting for independence in 2014, and probably intending to do so again should a further referendum be presented, the bit in bold is kind of pro-independence chat that we could do without. Are all indy supporters saintly Geordie Washingtons?

I voted for independence and will again. This whole thing was about Alex Salmond who was found not guilty but the rumour is he was naughty and feel a little sorry for her. She was probably economical with her answers. Still 2 votes SNP for me at election. I have that lying ringpiece Cole-Hamilton as my MSP and want him out!

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Roxy Hearts
7 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:


55% of the country are liars 😂 SNP are happy to mislead people that we would somehow be better off from an economic perspective, happy to buy votes by writing cheques we can’t cash. 

Unionist MPs! There are a lot of the 55% who would vote indy but are unsure and don't wish to commit for all sorts of reasons. My friends and family included.

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Roxy Hearts
13 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

Like Cruyff has acknowledged what I genuinely don’t understand is why supporters of the SNP and Independence are standing by her.  
 

Surely you can’t believe that she is now helping you achieve your goals.  A month ago a majority was locked up, now it looks 50/50.  20 polls in a row had yes ahead and now 6 in a row (till today) had no ahead.  There is no way today’s news makes either of these things better.  She will be such a turn off to floating voters and undecideds.

 

Can any yes/SNP supporter answer this as I just don’t get it? 

I can't vote for any other of the hypocritical, lying other lot so it's the least worst for me. I'm ex Labour and would never vote for them again even in an independent Scotland.

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Weakened Offender
20 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Despite voting for independence in 2014, and probably intending to do so again should a further referendum be presented, the bit in bold is kind of pro-independence chat that we could do without. Are all indy supporters saintly Geordie Washingtons?

 

It's FAF when Jonesy does the 'I'm an indy-voter but....' chat on this thread. 😁

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kingantti1874
6 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Unionist MPs! There are a lot of the 55% who would vote indy but are unsure and don't wish to commit for all sorts of reasons. My friends and family included.


Still that is some accusation - and frankly it’s rubbish.

 

Don’t take offence, the logic applied by your friends and family is on the money

 

The SNP never managed to provide a credible plan for independence in 2014, they don’t have any answers now, they are however perfectly happy to buy the votes of the gullible and to perpetuate the myth that we won’t suffer economically for decades.
 

they are no better than brexiteers, happy to gamble with all of our futures to meet their own objectives.

 

if Scotland votes for independence but understands the cost then fair enough. The SNP are rotten to the core

Edited by kingantti1874
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19 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

Like Cruyff has acknowledged what I genuinely don’t understand is why supporters of the SNP and Independence are standing by her.  
 

Surely you can’t believe that she is now helping you achieve your goals.  A month ago a majority was locked up, now it looks 50/50.  20 polls in a row had yes ahead and now 6 in a row (till today) had no ahead.  There is no way today’s news makes either of these things better.  She will be such a turn off to floating voters and undecideds.

 

Can any yes/SNP supporter answer this as I just don’t get it? 

 

An incisive point.

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The corrupt ginger will claim her gullible masses only can decide her fate in May and not any committee or report on her lies whatever it says. The SNP is basically her toy so don't expect any objection.   

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Roxy Hearts
2 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:


Still that is some accusation - and frankly it’s rubbish.

 

Don’t take offence, the logic applied by your friends and family is on the money

 

The SNP never managed to provide a credible plan for independence in 2014, they don’t have any answers now, they are however perfectly happy to buy the votes of the gullible andto perpetuate the myth that we won’t suffer economically for decades.
 

they are no better than brexiteers, happy to gamble with all of our futures to meet their own objectives.

 I don't take offence from unionists. Who does? They don't have any answers. Almost all of them say the same thing and would appear not to have any confidence in the people of Scotland. 

 

I don't expect a plan for independence as I don't for the continuance of this dysfunctional Union. I also have friends and family who are independence supporters too.

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Just now, JackLadd said:

The corrupt ginger will claim her gullible masses only can decide her fate in May and not any committee or report on her lies whatever it says. The SNP is basically her toy so don't expect any objection.   

Patel and Boris didn't resign, did they. 

 

SNP will wipe the floor with the little traitors in may, with or without NS. Independence is all that's important. 

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Just now, ri Alban said:

Patel and Boris didn't resign, did they. 

 

SNP will wipe the floor with the little traitors in may, with or without NS. Independence is all that's important. 

Your continued use of the word traitor for anyone who doesn’t believe in independence is ridiculous. By that reckoning in 2014 Scotland was a unique country in that the majority of its population were traitors to it. 

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1 minute ago, ri Alban said:

Patel and Boris didn't resign, did they. 

 

SNP will wipe the floor with the little traitors in may, with or without NS. Independence is all that's important. 

 

 

That's because they had nothing to resign for. 

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Just now, Tazio said:

Your continued use of the word traitor for anyone who doesn’t believe in independence is ridiculous. By that reckoning in 2014 Scotland was a unique country in that the majority of its population were traitors to it. 

 

It's militant bordering on violent talk from a cultist. 

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What about this new Independence Party. I don’t know much about them but they might take the votes from SNP which could mean SNP loose out on government 

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29 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

Like Cruyff has acknowledged what I genuinely don’t understand is why supporters of the SNP and Independence are standing by her.  
 

My take FWIW is the modern day football scarf politics where so many people have vociferously  nailed their flag to the mast that the least worst option is to continue on the same path rather than admit they've backed the wrong horse/jockey

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Brighton Jambo
Just now, Candy said:

My take FWIW is the modern day football scarf politics where so many people have vociferously  nailed their flag to the mast that the least worst option is to continue on the same path rather than admit they've backed the wrong horse/jockey

I do understand that but to stretch the sporting analogy it’s like Suporting a football team whose managers decisions and behaviour is hurtling you from certain league victory to relegation.  You can replace the manager but still support the club.  

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Roxy Hearts
2 minutes ago, Candy said:

My take FWIW is the modern day football scarf politics where so many people have vociferously  nailed their flag to the mast that the least worst option is to continue on the same path rather than admit they've backed the wrong horse/jockey

Who should we vote for? 

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Just now, Brighton Jambo said:

I do understand that but to stretch the sporting analogy it’s like Suporting a football team whose managers decisions and behaviour is hurtling you from certain league victory to relegation.  You can replace the manager but still support the club.  

True, but for some reason - I don't know why - personality politics is very much to the fore these days

 

Maybe its Donald Trump  to blame

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Brighton Jambo
7 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

 

That's because they had nothing to resign for. 

I’m not sure about that.  Patel was found to have broken the ministerial code and Johnson almost certainly lied to the queen.
 

What I don’t think SNP followers realise is that by constantly using the Patel/Johnson/Hancock defence strategy it simply emphasises that Nicola Sturgeon is in that category of person.  Hardly a vote winner is it! 

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manaliveits105
11 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

 I don't take offence from unionists. Who does? They don't have any answers. Almost all of them say the same thing and would appear not to have any confidence in the people of Scotland. 

 

I don't expect a plan for independence as I don't for the continuance of this dysfunctional Union. I also have friends and family who are independence supporters too.

We are the people of Scotland :greggy:

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2 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Didn't know about that. What's the story? Any big names or reason for being set up?

The Independence for Scotland Party (ISP) is one of a handful of new splinter parties looking to challenge the SNP and the Greens for the pro-independence vote on the regional list.

Candidates include several former SNP councillors, including council group leaders and other independence activists.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/new-scottish-independence-first-party-reveals-candidates-for-holyrood-elections-3159201
It’s about as much as I know so far.

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9 minutes ago, Tazio said:

Your continued use of the word traitor for anyone who doesn’t believe in independence is ridiculous. By that reckoning in 2014 Scotland was a unique country in that the majority of its population were traitors to it. 

No, about 1m were rUK and EU citizens. They were voting with a different view. 1m were traitors to their homeland. 

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Just now, ri Alban said:

No, about 1m were rUK and EU citizens. They were voting with a different view. 1m were traitors to their homeland. 

Jesus Christ. It’s the paramilitary wing of the SNP in full flow. 

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