Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[Adam_the_legend]

1 hour ago, jambo89 said:

 

What are you on about??

 

Take a deep breath, un-tuck your willy from between your legs and read my post again.

 

At no point did I say that surgery was akin to buying milk. Nowhere. 

 

As for the rest of your post, the burden of proof is not on the me to show that masks do not prevent the spread of infection,  (a religious style argument thrown at atheists all the time). 

 

As for WHO https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks

 

Fill your boots. It's good that you wear a mask. As do I.

I was going to reply properly but then I realised I was dealing with a child. Keep safe little one 👶🏻 

[heartstastic]

1 hour ago, jonesy said:

 

Funny you mention that. The rhetoric coming from some of the politicians (I won't mention them by name, as it seems to spark off all kinds of reactions) is almost like that of an abusive partner - "None of us want this", "It's for your own good", "If you'd listened the first time."

Yes it is called gaslighting.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/gaslighting

 

There's a handful of amateur gaslighters on here...sad sacks.

[jambo89]

5 minutes ago, Adam_the_legend said:

I was going to reply properly but then I realised I was dealing with a child. Keep safe little one 👶🏻 

 

Translation:

 

I have no real reply so will pretend I'm an offended little snowflake

[Adam_the_legend]

30 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

Phoned the doctor for an appointment this morning and got one for this afternoon so things are on the up at the GP.

The downside is that the immediate treatment I require isn't available at the moment due to covid, and the referal for further specialist investigation is not available any time soon due to covid.

 

Neither are life threatening, but it goes to show how much is still on hold.

Better settle in for the long haul, it’s not looking like that backlog is going anywhere soon. 

[jambo89]

7 minutes ago, TheOak88 said:

 

There is a massive difference. A surgeon is spending, often hours standing over a person who is completely cut open with a deep wound. 

 

A bit different to the situation of walking past someone in Tesco. 

 

There is indeed a difference.

 

My point was why does a surgeon wear one? 

 

Why does a dentist wear one? 

 

Ultimately, it is to stop the spread of infection, and the argument that it doesn't stop infection just doesn't hold true when we look at the evidence. 

 

Now you can argue the level of protection it might give someone and cross reference that in various different scenarios, that could very well be up for debate.

 

As I've posted above, one of the reasons it is up for debate is because there has never been a required mass study on the efficacy of face masks.

 

You might want to ask why the studies around mask wearing are few and far between and I would refer you to my previous question, why is there a lack of studies on sky diving and the efficay of not wearing a parachute. 

 

In regards to face mask wearing and how well they work, as counter-intuitive as it may seem, a lack of study (evidence) is evidence

[TheOak88]

59 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

I have argued today that extra lockdown measures do not seem proportionate, however you can't say there is not longer a pandemic. Look at the rising deaths in France and Spain, for example, and then tell me we do not look to be on a similar path. They are not making regulations up just to annoy or inconvenience us, despite what you may think.

 

Do you suggest we return to how things were in January before we even knew about this? Fans back in stadiums, pubs/night clubs packed out etc etc?

 

Genuine question, mate. What do you see as the end game to all this?

 

I know a couple of family members who are in their 60’s who have broadly been pro-lockdown and supportive of the measures put in place over the past 6 months. I asked the same question as the above to them as was genuinely interested to know how they see this all coming to an end. Their answer was we just need to hope for a vaccine next year, they seemed to have their entire hopes pinned on this. 

 

I suppose the vaccine point is a fair one, but it still feels like a vaccine is more a matter of hope rather expectation for next year. When I questioned them a bit further and said how long do we wait for a vaccine, 6 months, a year, 2 years, they didn’t really seem to have an answer to this. Would be interesting to hear other views from people who are broadly pro-Lockdown. 

[TheOak88]

2 minutes ago, jambo89 said:

 

There is indeed a difference.

 

My point was why does a surgeon wear one? 

 

Why does a dentist wear one? 

 

Ultimately, it is to stop the spread of infection, and the argument that it doesn't stop infection just doesn't hold true when we look at the evidence. 

 

Now you can argue the level of protection it might give someone and cross reference that in various different scenarios, that could very well be up for debate.

 

As I've posted above, one of the reasons it is up for debate is because there has never been a required mass study on the efficacy of face masks.

 

You might want to ask why the studies around mask wearing are few and far between and I would refer you to my previous question, why is there a lack of studies on sky diving and the efficay of not wearing a parachute. 

 

In regards to face mask wearing and how well they work, as counter-intuitive as it may seem, a lack of study (evidence) is evidence

 

I suppose my point was the chance of transmitting an infection if you are a surgeon is pretty high, due to spending a very long time standing directly over somebody who is in a vulnerable position to receive an infection. 

 

Going into a supermarket you are never going to be in that position. But I do get your point that if the mask works in one scenario why not in the other. 

[Adam_the_legend]

1 minute ago, TheOak88 said:

 

Genuine question, mate. What do you see as the end game to all this?

 

I know a couple of family members who are in their 60’s who have broadly been pro-lockdown and supportive of the measures put in place over the past 6 months. I asked the same question as the above to them as was genuinely interested to know how they see this all coming to an end. Their answer was we just need to hope for a vaccine next year, they seemed to have their entire hopes pinned on this. 

 

I suppose the vaccine point is a fair one, but it still feels like a vaccine is more a matter of hope rather expectation for next year. When I questioned them a bit further and said how long do we wait for a vaccine, 6 months, a year, 2 years, they didn’t really seem to have an answer to this. Would be interesting to hear other views from people who are broadly pro-Lockdown. 

We have a Flu vaccine yet people still die of the flu every year. A vaccine is not a cure all (unfortunately). We need to learn to live with Covid like the flu (I’m now quoting Scotland’s clinical health director) and the sooner we accept that and develop a long term strategy the better. Lockdown > ease lockdown > lockdown > ease lockdown is not a sustainable strategy. 

[Robbofan99]

Jason Leith on STV news just now " we don't want another full lockdown" and earlier gave a patronising analogy that we are at the " amber" stage of the epidemic  Jesus wept. As an aside his bottom teeth are rank rotten and he's a dentist. 

[Jambo 4 Ever]

2 minutes ago, Robbofan99 said:

Jason Leith on STV news just now " we don't want another full lockdown" and earlier gave a patronising analogy that we are at the " amber" stage of the epidemic  Jesus wept. As an aside his bottom teeth are rank rotten and he's a dentist. 

He talks a lot of sense 

[Robbofan99]

2 hours ago, AlimOzturk said:

Ach well couldn’t give a **** if I am or not.

 

You don't have to explain to anyone why you wont wear a mask. Tell them to bolt .

[Jambo 4 Ever]

[Robbofan99]

Just now, Jambo 4 Ever said:

He talks a lot of sense 

Admittedly hes a bit more tempered and measured in his language that Sturgeon . She described the cases as " accelerating" she needs to calm doon. 

[vegas-voss]

Just seen a doctor on BBC news say she expects to see numbers in hospital in 3 weeks at the level they were at the end of March if things continue as they are. 

 

Sorry for doom and gloom post.News is shit right now.

Edited September 18, 2020 by vegas-voss

[TheOak88]

11 minutes ago, Adam_the_legend said:

We have a Flu vaccine yet people still die of the flu every year. A vaccine is not a cure all (unfortunately). We need to learn to live with Covid like the flu (I’m now quoting Scotland’s clinical health director) and the sooner we accept that and develop a long term strategy the better. Lockdown > ease lockdown > lockdown > ease lockdown is not a sustainable strategy. 

 

The Coronavirus vaccine might not be a “cure all” and eradicate the virus, but even if it had say a 40% effectiveness (similar to the flu jab), it could reduce CV deaths significantly to a similar level as the flu, which would be a lot more palatable than what we have dealt with this year. 

[XB52]

This thread is going batshit mental, almost trump like, as the flat earthers get weirder and weirder in their denial. Doesn't matter how may doctors, scientists, etc say to wear masks to protect lifes. The internet trolls know better 

[Cade]

Boris admits we're in a 2nd wave.

 

 

[Victorian]

15 minutes ago, Cade said:

Boris admits we're in a 2nd wave.

 

 

 

2nd wave against a backdrop of a significant resistance / hostility.    

[Nucky Thompson]

28 minutes ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

Is it not against the rules to have multiple accounts?

[Nucky Thompson]

27 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

Just seen a doctor on BBC news say she expects to see numbers in hospital in 3 weeks at the level they were at the end of March if things continue as they are. 

 

Sorry for doom and gloom post.News is shit right now.

Was that the reject, other SAGE scientist?

[Weakened Offender]

42 minutes ago, Robbofan99 said:

Jason Leith on STV news just now " we don't want another full lockdown" and earlier gave a patronising analogy that we are at the " amber" stage of the epidemic  Jesus wept. As an aside his bottom teeth are rank rotten and he's a dentist. 

 

Your posts on this thread are cringeworthy. 

[Robbofan99]

and you are just cringeworthy 

[Nucky Thompson]

2 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

Your posts on this thread are cringeworthy. 

You should maybe stay away from this thread. It's no good for your health.

Have you checked your blood pressure lately 

[Ray Gin]

2 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

 

 

TLDR?

 

Key part:

 

What matters more is whether people know how to properly protect themselves from the virus. Fortunately, the prevention steps for both transmission routes are largely the same: keep your distance and wear a mask. Evidence of the importance of masks, in particular, has been mounting, not only because they trap outgoing particles from escaping, which protects others, but also because they block larger incoming particles from getting into a person’s airways, protecting the mask wearer themselves. And even if some viral particles do get through, the viral dose will still be much smaller, so the person will be less likely to get seriously ill.

[vegas-voss]

18 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Was that the reject, other SAGE scientist?

Nah was Doctor from a hospital it was when they were talking about restrictions taking place in parts of England she was female if that helps will probably be on main news tonight as it was the 6 o'clock news tonight on BBC.

[The Real Maroonblood]

45 minutes ago, XB52 said:

This thread is going batshit mental, almost trump like, as the flat earthers get weirder and weirder in their denial. Doesn't matter how may doctors, scientists, etc say to wear masks to protect lifes. The internet trolls know better 

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 hour ago, vegas-voss said:

Just seen a doctor on BBC news say she expects to see numbers in hospital in 3 weeks at the level they were at the end of March if things continue as they are. 

 

Sorry for doom and gloom post.News is shit right now.

For perspective, the doctors at St Thomas's in London, the "dirty" hospital that was used for Covid back in Spring,  were fully expecting another wave of admissions by the end of July. That didn't happen.  Predictions about overwhelmed hospitals are based on it being as "dangerous' as it was in March. There is no evidence that is the case.

[Adam_the_legend]

1 hour ago, Cade said:

Boris admits we're in a 2nd wave.

 

 

so we’re listening to him now?! It’s all so confusing. 

[Jambo 4 Ever]

48 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Is it not against the rules to have multiple accounts?

Eh?

[Nucky Thompson]

2 minutes ago, jonesy said:

 

The only thing that clown should admit is that he hasn't got a clue.

Correct. Sturgeon is on a total power trip, but Johnson is a total spineless imbecile who can't make a decision for himself. He relies on all the diddy men to help him make important decisions

[Nucky Thompson]

1 minute ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

Eh?

You've not got the savvy to carry it off  

 

[CavySlaveJambo]

There are three ways to get out of this, and I think it may take two of the three to work. 

 

1. more effective treatments. 

2. The virus mutates into a less severe form.

3. Vaccines and there are already a few in phase 3 trials and at least one due to report by December.  
 

A short strict lockdown for 2-3 weeks will help short term to get the virus out of circulation to some extent.  Perhaps more than local measures (how long have they been in place in some areas). However this Current situation can’t carry  on long term.  
 

 

[spirt of 98]

Just as I said yesterday. But all the no it all’s said I was talking single fish. 
 

mm wave 2 confirmed. Honestly all the keyboard warriors and know it all need to shut the fu...ck up. 

[Nucky Thompson]

1 minute ago, spirt of 98 said:

Just as I said yesterday. But all the no it all’s said I was talking single fish. 
 

mm wave 2 confirmed. Honestly all the keyboard warriors and know it all need to shut the fu...ck up. 

Confirmed by who, Bojo the clown 

[Weakened Offender]

52 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

You should maybe stay away from this thread. It's no good for your health.

Have you checked your blood pressure lately 

 

My blood pressure is fine thanks. 😎

[Shanks]

Not too bothered if they do a crappy wee fake lockdown.  Seems like they don’t want to shutdown anything that harms the economy (pubs, restaurants etc all staying open). They are instead focusing on things which are ‘free’ - household rules, masks etc.

 

They can put all those kind of restrictions in if they want and people won’t be too arsed about it. 

 

 

[Victorian]

2 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

Rumour that circuit break/lockdown will be done during Oct school holidays. There is a logic to it I accept but it’s hard to view as anything other than lockdown via the back door. 
 

 

Wtf is a lockdown via the back door?   It's just a lockdown or no lockdown.

 

It seems that some journalists have been informed that this one,  if it happens but seems certain,  will be the first in a series.    Several more was phrase used on the news.   It all points towards this being very much a science advice led campaign over quite a few months over the autumn and winter.    It strikes me that the experts have accepted that there's very little they can do to suppress infections via non-lockdown measures and that these short fire breaks are required to arrest a months long exponential surge.

 

People are talking about 'another lockdown' but it will be different to the initial one.    Businesses previously required to close will stay open.   Schools open.   People free to travel around more than during the initial lockdown.   Looks like it will be centred around multiple household gathering and the night time economy.    Looks potentially dicey for other leisure and fitness settings though.    10pm curfew on pubs and restaurants could become total closures.

 

One thing most people agree on is that lockdowns wont achieve much on their own.   To that end there should be a specific purpose and/or point in time for these measures to contribute to.    I'm a bit intrigued by it and hope that it's a sign that they are now planning towards something specific at a target point in time.    Hoping that the V word may be prominent by the end of winter.

[vegas-voss]

41 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

For perspective, the doctors at St Thomas's in London, the "dirty" hospital that was used for Covid back in Spring,  were fully expecting another wave of admissions by the end of July. That didn't happen.  Predictions about overwhelmed hospitals are based on it being as "dangerous' as it was in March. There is no evidence that is the case.

I don't know man I just caught the news tonight and she was on.She said that although number just now were lower than the start of march they were doubling every couple of days and in 3 weeks if it stayed the same would be at March levels.She may only have been on about her hospital though.

[The Roller]

34 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

You've not got the savvy to carry it off  

 

It’s a legitimate name change.

[AlimOzturk]

So essentially Sweden was right all along. Because that seems like the model that we are going for now. 

Edited September 18, 2020 by AlimOzturk

[vegas-voss]

2 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

So essentially Sweden was right all along. Because that seems like the model that we are going for now. 

Kind of looks like we are more following Belgium with curfews getting put in place.

Edited September 18, 2020 by vegas-voss

[The Roller]

1 minute ago, AlimOzturk said:

So essentially Sweden was right all along. Because that seems like the model that we are going for now. 

There’s not a hope in hell the British public would have behaved as the Swedish did, though.

 

[Weakened Offender]

2 minutes ago, The Roller said:

There’s not a hope in hell the British public would have behaved as the Swedish did, though.

 

 

This thread backs that up. 

[jack D and coke]

10 minutes ago, The Roller said:

There’s not a hope in hell the British public would have behaved as the Swedish did, though.

 

Swedes are some of the most bammy people I’ve ever met. They’re not much different to us. 
I’ll add Norwegians to that as well. 

Edited September 18, 2020 by jack D and coke

[Robbofan99]

[Adam_the_legend]

17 minutes ago, The Roller said:

There’s not a hope in hell the British public would have behaved as the Swedish did, though.

 

The restrictions in Sweden were much less draconian than the UK and elsewhere so how they behaved would be relative. My understanding is Sweden just cracked on as normal with a few small adjustments to shield the vulnerable, pretty easy to follow. 

[Victorian]

3 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

It’s enforcing a lockdown or close to it without actually announcing one. It’s a classic repackage.
 

It’s pretty common approach to be honest, put bad news with a new bow (new framing/angle) and hope it’s received better. Done it myself a good few times 😃

 

I agree the lockdown will be slightly different but it’s still a lockdown. Call it whatever you want. Schools are off and households are prevented to mix. Whilst, as you say, leisure/hospitality will be ropey. The only difference will be that in theory people will be allowed to work but those who can are working from home anyway. 

 

I see no evidence there is any strategy or rationale to this approach TBH.
 

If you want to avoid a semantics argument let’s bin word lockdown and use term restrictions 😉

 

Don't think any repackaging is needed.   They've briefed out their direction of travel and will just announce it when they're ready.    Lockdown.  Restriction period.  Combine harvester.  Duckbilled Platypus.  Whatever.

 

If there is a plan to have several of these then that in itself is part of a strategy.   It would actually be counter productive,  perhaps damaging,  to begin doing periodic lockdowns without a purpose in mind.    

 

Suppression.   Delay.   Buying time.   Allowing NHS to do non-covid work.   Hopefully all towards something specific,   vaccine shaped.

[Francis Albert]

21 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

Kind of looks like we are more following Belgium with curfews getting put in place.

Sounds right. . Belgium has had the highest death rate per head in Europe so the obvious one to follow.

[Robbofan99]

5 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Don't think any repackaging is needed.   They've briefed out their direction of travel and will just announce it when they're ready.    Lockdown.  Restriction period.  Combine harvester.  Duckbilled Platypus.  Whatever.

 

If there is a plan to have several of these then that in itself is part of a strategy.   It would actually be counter productive,  perhaps damaging,  to begin doing periodic lockdowns without a purpose in mind.    

 

Suppression.   Delay.   Buying time.   Allowing NHS to do non-covid work.   Hopefully all towards something specific,   vaccine shaped.

Absolutely fantasy island gibberish . The only plan the Govt has is no plan . They are like headless chickens . Stop giving them any form of respect by stating their so called “ plan “ . 

[Bull's-eye]

5 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Don't think any repackaging is needed.   They've briefed out their direction of travel and will just announce it when they're ready.    Lockdown.  Restriction period.  Combine harvester.  Duckbilled Platypus.  Whatever.

 

If there is a plan to have several of these then that in itself is part of a strategy.   It would actually be counter productive,  perhaps damaging,  to begin doing periodic lockdowns without a purpose in mind.    

 

Suppression.   Delay.   Buying time.   Allowing NHS to do non-covid work.   Hopefully all towards something specific,   vaccine shaped.

 

Word salad slaverspraff.