maroonlegions Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Seething at this news , its like she is spoiling for a fight.. .Teflon man needs to GO.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 1 minute ago, maroonlegions said: Seething at this news , its like she is spoiling for a fight.. .Teflon man needs to GO.. It’s not news though. It was announced at the AGM nearly a month ago. Clickbait I reckon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beni Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 17 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said: I’ve read it all now. What exactly has dempster done at Hibs for you to form that view? Were you saying that when we were in europe while they were still in the championship? She hired a manager to get Hibs promoted and he failed in two attempts. The manager we hired did it in one. She then lost their next manager through discipline issues, and his replacement was a disaster. Their current manager is so far unconvincing if you talk to Hibeea who go to games. She talked up fan ownership then went quiet when a new owner suddenly appeared and that all went to shit. Virtually no above average youngsters have come through the ranks during her time. She got roughly a 3rd of what John McGinn was probably worth when they sold him. Their turnover of players during her time has been almost as high as ours with less upheaval at hibs. Sorry you went to so much bother, my post was tongue in cheek, based on the poster I quoted calling the Hibs CEO Dempsey. If you read it again you may spot a pun or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ToqueJambo Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 1 hour ago, fancy a brew said: Sorry you went to so much bother, my post was tongue in cheek, based on the poster I quoted calling the Hibs CEO Dempsey. If you read it again you may spot a pun or two. Sorry, I was triggered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 2 hours ago, davemclaren said: It’s not news though. It was announced at the AGM nearly a month ago. Clickbait I reckon. still seething after a month too.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Just now, maroonlegions said: still seething after a month too.. So I see. 🤯 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, davemclaren said: So I see. 🤯 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 14 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said: So this is something she said at the beginning of December last year and not yesterday as a new thought? It was only a momth ago So a new thought given the duration.of our injury problems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Francis Albert said: It was only a momth ago So a new thought given the duration.of our injury problems It was announced a month ago yes but the press only deem it fit for a headline now? Edited January 10, 2020 by Seymour M Hersh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 7 hours ago, wavydavy said: I think she is a control freak. Just like her pal. Ann Budge is the opposite of a control freak. Clearly delegated too much and trusted others 100%, that is not a control freak at all. It's the opposite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said: It was announced a month ago yes but the press only deem it fit for a headline now? I didn't attend the AGM and hadn't seen these embarrassing quotes from Ann before. So thanks to the press. Even if a wee bit belated. Edited January 10, 2020 by Francis Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: I didn't attend the AGM and hadn't seen these embarrassing quotes from Ann before. So thanks to the press. Even if a wee bit belated. Pretty sure it was on the AGM thread FA and I seem to remember you being on that. Or perhaps not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7628mm Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: I didn't attend the AGM and hadn't seen these embarrassing quotes from Ann before. So thanks to the press What was reported at the time by Aunty was that the club did not proceed with the AGM in a "normal" manner i.e. financials and stuff but AB stood and talked for something like 40+ minutes. I hate the SMSM but it must have taken them a good while to trawl through all that she said and make any sense out of it. It is very difficult to listen to anyone that is talking shop for 5 minutes let alone an extra 35+ and most will have switched off with it all eventually being nothing more than "white noise". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 31 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said: Ann Budge is the opposite of a control freak. Clearly delegated too much and trusted others 100%, that is not a control freak at all. It's the opposite. We can agree to disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettigrewsstylist Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) So, the next round of pavement toffee.. 😂 Edited January 10, 2020 by pettigrewsstylist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Rom?n Riquelme Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Craig Levein anywhere near the medical department is a bad idea. Be like Shipman on acid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 42 minutes ago, wavydavy said: We can agree to disagree. Nah, your just wrong on this one. Everything from the stand to the pitch through to the football teams and medical teams she has delegated and empowered folk, maybe too many folk and some times given otjer folk too much automony. Pretty much exact opposite of what you were saying, like the extreme opposite. On a one 1 to 10 scale, 10 being correct, you're like at 1. She is not a control freak, not but any stretch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 11 minutes ago, Juan Rom?n Riquelme said: Craig Levein anywhere near the medical department is a bad idea. Be like Shipman on acid. Bet that was funny in your head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Rom?n Riquelme Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 20 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said: Bet that was funny in your head. I'm an extremely funny guy, tbf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 10 hours ago, davemclaren said: The article doesn’t state there was anything wrong with the handling injuries as far as I can see. It focuses on getting a better co-ordinatod response from the team. 😎 She mentions that the manager didn’t know who to believe because the sports scientist and the medical team contradicted each other, never Leveins fault it seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That-Day-In-May Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 On 09/01/2020 at 23:07, PaulHartley10 said: “I can speak to people separately but I don’t know whether the sports scientist or the physio is correct. Neither does the manager! So, I want someone who has a sports science background and a medical background who can understand all the information and pull it together. We don't half piss a lot of money away on staff btw, how do the other teams cope? We'll have qualified physios and sports scientists but we'll need another senior appointment to make sense of the information. A loans manager doing a job that a sporting director or anybody behind the scenes could be managing. We're not a top half EPL team ffs. Spot on. Throwing wages away for ridiculously unnecessary jobs. Levein will be laughing hysterically, what on earth does he know about the medical side of a football club? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 4 hours ago, Juan Rom?n Riquelme said: I'm an extremely funny guy, tbf. Peculiar or Ha, Ha? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 10 hours ago, Smith's right boot said: Nah, your just wrong on this one. Everything from the stand to the pitch through to the football teams and medical teams she has delegated and empowered folk, maybe too many folk and some times given otjer folk too much automony. Pretty much exact opposite of what you were saying, like the extreme opposite. On a one 1 to 10 scale, 10 being correct, you're like at 1. She is not a control freak, not but any stretch. In your opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 6 minutes ago, wavydavy said: In your opinion. Just admit you got that one wrong. Her biggest problem was trusting CL too much and giving him too much control over various things. You've said as much yourself. That means that Budge is not what you say. We can then all move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 10 hours ago, Juan Rom?n Riquelme said: I'm an extremely funny guy, tbf. Funny "ha ha" or funny like Norman Bates? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 7 hours ago, That-Day-In-May said: Spot on. Throwing wages away for ridiculously unnecessary jobs. Levein will be laughing hysterically, what on earth does he know about the medical side of a football club? CL won't be that someone with a sports science background. Surley that is not what you are saying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 This is all part of the restructuring of the football department and to be welcomed. Whether or not Levein is involved it won’t matter as he will be gone in a few months. We need a medical (qualified and experienced with a sports background) director to run this department. It’s not just coincidence we have all these injuries there is something wrong and hopefully the cause can be identified and corrected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 1 minute ago, Smith's right boot said: Just admit you got that one wrong. Her biggest problem was trusting CL too much and giving him too much control over various things. You've said as much yourself. That means that Budge is not what you say. We can then all move on. I agree with your comment about giving CL too much trust but do you really believe that he did things without her approval? I still think she is a control freak. She took on CL to look after the Footballing Department because she said after the event that she knew nothing about the running of the Footballing side of the business. She is refusing to move him on under the guise of he still has something to offer when in reality she does not want to admit defeat in her abject appointment. She likes to be in control and her stubborness here shows. The media and fans have shown their amazement/displeasure at the fact CL is still around but she still insists on keeping him.why? What did she know about running the Commercial side of a football club? I know it is a business and she came from a Business background but it is still very different. She took that on why? What did she know about building a new stand? Probably not a lot but she failed to take on a Project Manager for the whole project why? to save money or becasue she wanted to be in control? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, wavydavy said: I agree with your comment about giving CL too much trust but do you really believe that he did things without her approval? I still think she is a control freak. She took on CL to look after the Footballing Department because she said after the event that she knew nothing about the running of the Footballing side of the business. She is refusing to move him on under the guise of he still has something to offer when in reality she does not want to admit defeat in her abject appointment. She likes to be in control and her stubborness here shows. The media and fans have shown their amazement/displeasure at the fact CL is still around but she still insists on keeping him.why? What did she know about running the Commercial side of a football club? I know it is a business and she came from a Business background but it is still very different. She took that on why? What did she know about building a new stand? Probably not a lot but she failed to take on a Project Manager for the whole project why? to save money or becasue she wanted to be in control? She has folk in charge of all aspects of the club, taken on a advisor and given him too much power..... But you think she is a control freak? Your post is nonsense, we all know the stand was project managed. The commercial side recorded record turnover, is that not good? She can't empower and delegate too much and be a control freak. She also has to take on some responsibility or she would just be branded a "lazy cow", it's also her club so she's right to be involved. Just because you don't like her and she won't "sack herself" does not mean she is a control freak. You're embarrassing yourself a bit tbh. Edited January 11, 2020 by Smith's right boot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Rom?n Riquelme Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 43 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said: Funny "ha ha" or funny like Norman Bates? Bet that was funny in your head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 On 09/01/2020 at 23:07, PaulHartley10 said: “I can speak to people separately but I don’t know whether the sports scientist or the physio is correct. Neither does the manager! So, I want someone who has a sports science background and a medical background who can understand all the information and pull it together. We don't half piss a lot of money away on staff btw, how do the other teams cope? We'll have qualified physios and sports scientists but we'll need another senior appointment to make sense of the information. A loans manager doing a job that a sporting director or anybody behind the scenes could be managing. We're not a top half EPL team ffs. Sounds like she is getting contradictory opinions from the physio and sports scientist...This is not good. Have to admit I am not too sure what a sports scientist does but I assumed it was nutrition and lifestyle stuff rather than body mechanics, which the remit of the attractive brunette we see running on and off the pitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 58 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said: She has folk in charge of all aspects of the club, taken on a advisor and given him too much power..... But you think she is a control freak? Your post is nonsense, we all know the stand was project managed. The commercial side recorded record turnover, is that not good? She can't empower and delegate too much and be a control freak. She also has to take on some responsibility or she would just be branded a "lazy cow", it's also her club so she's right to be involved. Just because you don't like her and she won't "sack herself" does not mean she is a control freak. You're embarrassing yourself a bit tbh. Your making an assumption I don't like her because I think she is a control freak. That is simply not true. I admire what she has done for the club and I have only met her once so difficult to say if I liked her or not. She was very pleasant. She really has to delegate because it is a physical impossibilty to do everything herself but that does not mean that she is not still controlling. So because I have a different viewpoint on this to you I am embarrassing myself. It's just my opinion which happens to be different to yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 1 minute ago, wavydavy said: Your making an assumption I don't like her because I think she is a control freak. That is simply not true. I admire what she has done for the club and I have only met her once so difficult to say if I liked her or not. She was very pleasant. She really has to delegate because it is a physical impossibilty to do everything herself but that does not mean that she is not still controlling. So because I have a different viewpoint on this to you I am embarrassing myself. It's just my opinion which happens to be different to yours. Fair enough, but to say she empowered and trusted one man too much and also say that she is a control freak is just a complete contradiction. It really can't be both? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 1 hour ago, wavydavy said: I agree with your comment about giving CL too much trust but do you really believe that he did things without her approval? I still think she is a control freak. She took on CL to look after the Footballing Department because she said after the event that she knew nothing about the running of the Footballing side of the business. She is refusing to move him on under the guise of he still has something to offer when in reality she does not want to admit defeat in her abject appointment. She likes to be in control and her stubborness here shows. The media and fans have shown their amazement/displeasure at the fact CL is still around but she still insists on keeping him.why? What did she know about running the Commercial side of a football club? I know it is a business and she came from a Business background but it is still very different. She took that on why? What did she know about building a new stand? Probably not a lot but she failed to take on a Project Manager for the whole project why? to save money or becasue she wanted to be in control? Pretty obvious isn't it? You've said yourself that she relied on CL for the football side - retrospectively too much but that is irrelevant...We are now transitioning and have a new manager but the DOF position is vacant. Stendel has clearly been given free rein to change things as he sees fit but because of our predicament his focus must be on the First Team. Levein has been retained to cover the other areas (which is unusual but not unheard of in a business where there is little likelihood that he can take information which can be useful to a competitor. Contra is that it is not often done because it breeds a certain amount of uncertainty about roles, which is what we are seeing!...) I don't think a new DOF will be recruited until Levein is gone, or about to go. However, I could be wrong and Ann might once again discover that the best man for the job is already in the role!!! Haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 42 minutes ago, Spellczech said: Pretty obvious isn't it? You've said yourself that she relied on CL for the football side - retrospectively too much but that is irrelevant...We are now transitioning and have a new manager but the DOF position is vacant. Stendel has clearly been given free rein to change things as he sees fit but because of our predicament his focus must be on the First Team. Levein has been retained to cover the other areas (which is unusual but not unheard of in a business where there is little likelihood that he can take information which can be useful to a competitor. Contra is that it is not often done because it breeds a certain amount of uncertainty about roles, which is what we are seeing!...) I don't think a new DOF will be recruited until Levein is gone, or about to go. However, I could be wrong and Ann might once again discover that the best man for the job is already in the role!!! Haha Unfortunately I think she has more or less paved the way for this to happen albeit perhaps not Levein but AM. She has already made comments about not wanting to lose him because of the relationships he has developed with the likes of Man City and his connections to Northern Ireland etc. That might not be a bad thing but on a personal front I would rather that we had a clean break from all of those involved with CL previously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, wavydavy said: Unfortunately I think she has more or less paved the way for this to happen albeit perhaps not Levein but AM. She has already made comments about not wanting to lose him because of the relationships he has developed with the likes of Man City and his connections to Northern Ireland etc. That might not be a bad thing but on a personal front I would rather that we had a clean break from all of those involved with CL previously. Don't understand this viewpoint. Utterly illogical from a business perspective...Akin to holding a grudge against the wife of the guy who shagged your girlfriend. For 5 years you guys told us Levein was a dictator, a control freak, a bully, stubborn etc - You cannot then go and tar the other coaches with the same brush. IMO it is fine that Stendel should pick and choose who to keep, but that doesn't equate to you or anyone else sitting there saying you want all the coaches out. Edited January 11, 2020 by Spellczech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 18 minutes ago, Spellczech said: Don't understand this viewpoint. Utterly illogical from a business perspective...Akin to holding a grudge against the wife of the guy who shagged your girlfriend. For 5 years you guys told us Levein was a dictator, a control freak, a bully, stubborn etc - You cannot then go and tar the other coaches with the same brush. IMO it is fine that Stendel should pick and choose who to keep, but that doesn't equate to you or anyone else sitting there saying you want all the coaches out. The first few words on my post you highlighted is "that might not be a bad thing" is relating to the possibilty of AM being the next sporting director. So how do you equate that to tarring all the other coaches with the same brush? So if AB appoints a brand new Sporting Director other than AM or CL are you saying that will be illogical? I am giving my personal opinion that I would rather CL and AM left the club. AB will be the one who decides who stays and who goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 14 hours ago, Smith's right boot said: Bet that was funny in your head. It's probably still bouncing around in the empty cavity of his skull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, wavydavy said: The first few words on my post you highlighted is "that might not be a bad thing" is relating to the possibilty of AM being the next sporting director. So how do you equate that to tarring all the other coaches with the same brush? So if AB appoints a brand new Sporting Director other than AM or CL are you saying that will be illogical? I am giving my personal opinion that I would rather CL and AM left the club. AB will be the one who decides who stays and who goes. Nope, she can appoint whomsoever she sees fit as DOF. That is her prerogative as Owner and CEO of the club. I'm just fed up of others thinking they know better, as if their opinions matter one jot. They don't have to work with or take responsibility for the failure of such person. None of us, you, me or anyone else except Budge has a right to an opinion or preference either for or against any candidate. That is how it works. I can live with people judging the team and thus the manager and therefore calling "manager oot" as we are paying customers, and the signings of Levein allow us to judge his performance in that role as poor and say "DOF oot" but we are not in a position to choose who comes in. Edited January 11, 2020 by Spellczech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 4 minutes ago, Spellczech said: Nope, she can appoint whomsoever she sees fit as DOF. That is her prerogative as Owner and CEO of the club. I'm just fed up of others thinking they know better, as if their opinions matter one jot. They don't have to work with or take responsibility for the failure of such person. None of us, you, me or anyone else except Budge has a right to an opinion or preference either for or against any candidate. That is how it works. That's pretty obvious as the outright owner of the club she can appoint whoever she likes. She also knows that without the support of the majority of the fans any unpopular appointments can backfire but that is her perogative. Who said they know better? it's a discussion board/forum where people vent their feelings and thoughts. It's just exactly that I doubt anyone who posts on here thinks anything other than this. If you are fed up with what people think on here then take a break from looking at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyRightPeg Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Don’t know if it’s been mentioned already but I believe a lad is coming from Brisbane broncos to become the head of the performance/medical department Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, wavydavy said: That's pretty obvious as the outright owner of the club she can appoint whoever she likes. She also knows that without the support of the majority of the fans any unpopular appointments can backfire but that is her perogative. Who said they know better? it's a discussion board/forum where people vent their feelings and thoughts. It's just exactly that I doubt anyone who posts on here thinks anything other than this. If you are fed up with what people think on here then take a break from looking at it. Just because I'm fed up with every thread degenerating into a Levein debate doesn't mean I have to take a break from JKB. This one is meant to be about medics BTW... The only reason I mentioned it was that I believe there are people on here who don't just state their opinion but spam it, which gets us back to their oft-mentioned opinion that MacPhee is somehow tainted by association with Levein even though he was meant to have been working under an arrogant, stubborn, bullying despotic incompetent. Edited January 11, 2020 by Spellczech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 4 minutes ago, RustyRightPeg said: Don’t know if it’s been mentioned already but I believe a lad is coming from Brisbane broncos to become the head of the performance/medical department I hear he’s called Crocodile Levein. 😊 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 1 minute ago, davemclaren said: I hear he’s called Crocodile Levein. 😊 He's a flying doctor. Commuting from Brisbane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyRightPeg Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, davemclaren said: I hear he’s called Crocodile Levein. 😊 Could be. In all seriousness though I’ve heard this is a go’er. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Just now, RustyRightPeg said: Could be. In all seriousness though I’ve heard this is a go’er. It certainly seems to be the plan to get someone in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argyjambo Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 38 minutes ago, davemclaren said: I hear he’s called Crocodile Levein. 😊 Made me laugh, not an everyday event on JKB, given the sheer sh*tstorm of negativity, trolling, guesswork, hatred, lies and absolute garbage posted as "opinion" across a multitude of threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcjambo Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 (edited) 13 hours ago, That-Day-In-May said: Spot on. Throwing wages away for ridiculously unnecessary jobs. Levein will be laughing hysterically, what on earth does he know about the medical side of a football club? He spent a lot of his football career getting treatment from them so I would expect him to certainly be more knowledeable than anybody on here. Edited January 11, 2020 by tcjambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoncurMacdonaldMercer Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 a waste of time and money and duplication of work - doesn’t Queen Ann realise that a full review was done by the experts on here with the conclusion “just bad luck” “a statistical cluster” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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