US drone strike takes out top Iranian general

[FWJ]

Maybe the Iranians knew this from the outset and this is why they dropped the tub-thumping?

[Homme]

Probably why they won't hand over the back boxes. 

 

What a **** up. America kills one Iranian and they manage to kill about 120 of their own by shooting down planes and mass stampedes.

 

If the US want a war, they will run over Iran with ease. 

[Sharpie]

Trump in his press conference today it seemed somewhat grudgingly conceded that although an I ranian missile shot  it down, it may have been a mistake.

He also when commenting about the Iranian monster he directed killed  suggested because of his actions there are people walking about with no arms or legs, if people are now walking about without legs is this not a major step in medical science.

[Ibrahim Tall]

20 minutes ago, Homme said:

Probably why they won't hand over the back boxes. 

 

What a **** up. America kills one Iranian and they manage to kill about 120 of their own by shooting down planes and mass stampedes.

 

If the US want a war, they will run over Iran with ease. 

Its closer to 200, most of the ‘Canadians’ etc were Iranian dual nationals. Iran themselves said 147 Iranians on the plane plus atleast 56 in the stampede( I wouldn’t be surprised if that was a rounded down figure).

 

200 odd civilians dead for nothing,

Edited January 9, 2020 by Ibrahim Tall

[Cruyff]

That plane was defo shot down and I suspect it was full of spies and diplomats. They did it in Iranian territory so they could hide the evidence as well.

 

And that imo, was the revenge target. The US bases where they blew up a bunch of portaloos was just a distraction.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

As is now looking very likely that the Ukrainian plane was shot down by the Iranians, in all probably by a terrible mistake, human error probably, it might have the effect of just calming everybody down, the Iranians will know they have fecked up big time here and have killed more of their own by shooting down this plane.

There were 82 Iranians onboard but 147 if you include those with dual nationality.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 minute ago, Cruyff said:

That plane was defo shot down and I suspect it was full of spies and diplomats. They did it in Iranian territory so they could hide the evidence as well.

 

And that imo, was the revenge target. The US bases where they blew up a bunch of portaloos was just a distraction.

 

Revenge target with no Americans on board whilst killing most your own nationals, how is that revenge against America?

 

[redjambo]

9 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

That plane was defo shot down and I suspect it was full of spies and diplomats. They did it in Iranian territory so they could hide the evidence as well.

 

And that imo, was the revenge target. The US bases where they blew up a bunch of portaloos was just a distraction.

 

I think this might be a leap too far, conclusion-wise.

[indianajones]

The Americans killed the Iranian, causing Iran wto launch these missles. They are equally to blame for this horrific crash and loss of innocent lives. 

[Cruyff]

23 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Revenge target with no Americans on board whilst killing most your own nationals, how is that revenge against America?

 

How do you know there wasn't? they were probably carrying foreign passports? 

20 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

I think this might be a leap too far, conclusion-wise.

Maybe. Bit strange why they decided to shoot down a plane that was going to the Ukraine of all places, in their own airspace. 

Edited January 9, 2020 by Cruyff

[XB52]

The Iranians shoot down a plane just a few miles from Tehran airport???? Not a chance. USA or Israel maybe but I doubt even they would do that

[The Real Maroonblood]

4 minutes ago, indianajones said:

The Americans killed the Iranian, causing Iran wto launch these missles. They are equally to blame for this horrific crash and loss of innocent lives. 

Exactly.

[Justin Z]

9 minutes ago, indianajones said:

The Americans killed the Iranian, causing Iran wto launch these missles. They are equally to blame for this horrific crash and loss of innocent lives. 

 

True but good luck getting more than about seven of my countrymen to agree to that

[redjambo]

2 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Maybe. Bit strange why they decided to shoot down a plane that was going to the Ukraine of all places, in their own airspace. 

 

They will have had air defence units dotted all around Teheran. All it would take is one trigger-happy paranoid operator who thought the "blip" was an incoming US aircraft to fire off a missile or two. A similar scenario to the one that most likely happened in eastern Ukraine.

 

I'm not closing the door in my mind to it being an intentional take-down, I just find it unlikely unless the target individual was *extremely* important (defector with state secrets sort of thing) and they only found out he/she was on the plane as it took off.

 

 

[Cruyff]

Just now, redjambo said:

 

They will have had air defence units dotted all around Teheran. All it would take is one trigger-happy paranoid operator who thought the "blip" was an incoming US aircraft to fire off a missile or two. A similar scenario to the one that most likely happened in eastern Ukraine.

 

I'm not closing the door in my mind to it being an intentional take-down, I just find it unlikely unless the target individual was *extremely* important (defector with state secrets sort of thing) and they only found out he/she was on the plane as it took off.

 

 

That's the official line. Strange it was shot down minutes after it got into the air. Surely Iranian officials would have known that passenger jets were taken off at that point.

 

It's also strange that a plane full of foreigners were flying to the Ukraine of all places at that specific time. 

 

I don't believe anything Iran say tbh

They purposely missed with their scuds and claimed in the state media they killed 80 Americans. 

And they have previous of shooting down and blowing up planes.

 

We'll probably never know the truth. Only the Americans and the Iranians will. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

5 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

How do you know there wasn't? they were probably carrying foreign passports? 

Maybe. Bit strange why they decided to shoot down a plane that was going to the Ukraine of all places, in their own airspace. 

 

I don't, equally you have no idea if anybody was carrying foreign or fake passports either.

 

[indianajones]

8 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

True but good luck getting more than about seven of my countrymen to agree to that

 

I can imagine Justin. What's the overall feeling in the states about the possibility of another war? 

 

Could the accidental killing of these civilians be enough for Trump to retaliate further? He seems to accept any excuse for it. 

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, Cruyff said:

That's the official line. Strange it was shot down minutes after it got into the air. Surely Iranian officials would have known that passenger jets were taken off at that point.

 

It's also strange that a plane full of foreigners were flying to the Ukraine of all places at that specific time. 

 

I don't believe anything Iran say tbh

They purposely missed with their scuds and claimed in the state media they killed 80 Americans. 

And they have previous of shooting down and blowing up planes.

 

We'll probably never know the truth. Only the Americans and the Iranians will. 

 

The UIA Iran-Ukraine route has been a low-cost route onward to the rest of the world for a wee while now, so it was no surprise that the plane, a scheduled flight, was taking off at that time. Virtually all the passengers were Iranian or dual nationals, many expats who had been back in Iran visiting relatives.

 

I agree with you, though. We will probably never know the truth.

 

 

 

[Homme]

Irans ally Russia won't be too fussed about a Ukrainian plane coming down either. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

2 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

That's the official line. Strange it was shot down minutes after it got into the air. Surely Iranian officials would have known that passenger jets were taken off at that point.

 

It's also strange that a plane full of foreigners were flying to the Ukraine of all places at that specific time. 

 

I don't believe anything Iran say tbh

They purposely missed with their scuds and claimed in the state media they killed 80 Americans. 

And they have previous of shooting down and blowing up planes.

 

We'll probably never know the truth. Only the Americans and the Iranians will. 

 

What's strange about a scheduled flight?

And it was full of foreigners who were flying to Kiev to catch onward connecting flights to other destinations.

 

[Justin Z]

11 minutes ago, indianajones said:

 

I can imagine Justin. What's the overall feeling in the states about the possibility of another war? 

 

Could the accidental killing of these civilians be enough for Trump to retaliate further? He seems to accept any excuse for it. 

 

I'm maybe being optimistic and I'm removed, being in Scotland, but it feels like people don't have the appetite for this. Outside of Trump's loyal fellators.

 

That said, yes, I think there's a distinct possibility he might use it as an excuse.

[Cruyff]

12 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

The UIA Iran-Ukraine route has been a low-cost route onward to the rest of the world for a wee while now, so it was no surprise that the plane, a scheduled flight, was taking off at that time. Virtually all the passengers were Iranian or dual nationals, many expats who had been back in Iran visiting relatives.

 

I agree with you, though. We will probably never know the truth.

 

 

 

Well, how many planes flew out that day and do we have the names and occupations of everyone onboard. The guy who sold out the general to the Americans could have been on that flight. 

11 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

What's strange about a scheduled flight?

And it was full of foreigners who were flying to Kiev to catch onward connecting flights to other destinations.

 

Everything. 

[redjambo]

Just now, Cruyff said:

The guy who sold out the general to the Americans could have been on that flight.

 

They wouldn't have taken out a whole passenger plane for him (if an Iranian did sell him out in any case - it was probably a combination of US intel and on-the-ground Iraqi eyes that meant the US were able to locate Soleimani in Baghdad).

[Cruyff]

1 minute ago, redjambo said:

 

They wouldn't have taken out a whole passenger plane for him (if an Iranian did sell him out in any case - it was probably a combination of US intel and on-the-ground Iraqi eyes that meant the US were able to locate Soleimani in Baghdad).

Someone in Iran working for the US would have given him away no doubt but it's still a very strange coincidence that plane has been shot down very close to where it took off. I don't believe for a second that it was an accident. As I said, we'll probably never know the truth. 

 

The whole ole act by the Americans and Iran about the missles just adds to the confusion. They now seem to be "equal" all of a sudden and Trumps talking like they can be best buds. 

[Sharpie]

There are a number of we don't know who was on that flight comment, seeing the devastated husband a young Iranian resident of Canada who allowed his wife to take the last seat available, a gesture of kindness and love, and lost her forever. So amid controversy there is some tragedy.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 hour ago, Cruyff said:

 

Everything. 

 

Not everything is a conspiracy, terrible accidents do happen.

 

For all we know, some Iranian soldier, on high alert all night fearing American jets are going to start bombing Iran, stressed to feck and tired, hears an aircraft, sees a blip on his screen, locks onto the target and fires a couple of anti-aircraft missles at it, sees the missles hit the target and the plane falls to the ground.

Only then does he think, oh crap was that a passenger plane I just hit, oh feck what have I done, oh fecking hell, shit.

 

As was mentioned earlier on this thread about American 'friendly fire', the Americans didn't target British planes or soldiers deliberately, no they were probably stressed to hell & scared to shit and the classic 'shoot first and ask questions later' scenario ensued.

 

And that could well be what happened here, we simply don't know and probably will never know for certain, but that doesn't mean there is conspiracy, just because we don't know what actually happened.

 

[JackLadd]

So Trump is part responsible for 63 Canadian deaths. Bet  the psycho doesn't lose one wink. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

12 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

So Trump is part responsible for 63 Canadian deaths. Bet  the psycho doesn't lose one wink. 

This.

[jake]

Evidence shows Iranian missiles brought down Ukranian plane.

 

I bet it does.

 

[Maple Leaf]

47 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

So Trump is part responsible for 63 Canadian deaths. Bet  the psycho doesn't lose one wink. 

 

35 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

This.

 

It's Obama's fault, don'tcha know!

[AlphonseCapone]

1 hour ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Not everything is a conspiracy, terrible accidents do happen.

 

For all we know, some Iranian soldier, on high alert all night fearing American jets are going to start bombing Iran, stressed to feck and tired, hears an aircraft, sees a blip on his screen, locks onto the target and fires a couple of anti-aircraft missles at it, sees the missles hit the target and the plane falls to the ground.

Only then does he think, oh crap was that a passenger plane I just hit, oh feck what have I done, oh fecking hell, shit.

 

As was mentioned earlier on this thread about American 'friendly fire', the Americans didn't target British planes or soldiers deliberately, no they were probably stressed to hell & scared to shit and the classic 'shoot first and ask questions later' scenario ensued.

 

And that could well be what happened here, we simply don't know and probably will never know for certain, but that doesn't mean there is conspiracy, just because we don't know what actually happened.

 

 

Yeah, probably never going to find out but I'm inclined to think you're much closer than some of the other theories which sound like Hollywood movie plots. 

[Cruyff]

1 hour ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Not everything is a conspiracy, terrible accidents do happen.

 

For all we know, some Iranian soldier, on high alert all night fearing American jets are going to start bombing Iran, stressed to feck and tired, hears an aircraft, sees a blip on his screen, locks onto the target and fires a couple of anti-aircraft missles at it, sees the missles hit the target and the plane falls to the ground.

Only then does he think, oh crap was that a passenger plane I just hit, oh feck what have I done, oh fecking hell, shit.

 

As was mentioned earlier on this thread about American 'friendly fire', the Americans didn't target British planes or soldiers deliberately, no they were probably stressed to hell & scared to shit and the classic 'shoot first and ask questions later' scenario ensued.

 

And that could well be what happened here, we simply don't know and probably will never know for certain, but that doesn't mean there is conspiracy, just because we don't know what actually happened.

 

Terrible accidents do happen but it's a very strange coincidence that it happened when it did. Also, the Iranians claimed originally that it was down to a mechanical failure. Surely they'd know if they had fired a SAM missle. The whole thing is stinking. 

[Taffin]

It's all gone a bit like the old UFO thread this.

[Maple Leaf]

Some of the Canadians who were killed.

 

[jack D and coke]

Why was there so many canadians on the flight? Seems a bit weird no?

[Maple Leaf]

14 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Why was there so many canadians on the flight? Seems a bit weird no?

 

I read that almost all of them had gone to Iran to visit relatives over the holidays.  It seems that there are no direct flights between Canada and Iran, so coming back through a neutral country like Ukraine is normal.

 

Canada has no diplomatic relationship with Iran.

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

I read that almost all of them had gone to Iran to visit relatives over the holidays.  It seems that there are no direct flights between Canada and Iran, so coming back through a neutral country like Ukraine is normal.

 

Canada has no diplomatic relationship with Iran.

👍🏼

[John Gentleman]

4 hours ago, XB52 said:

The Iranians shoot down a plane just a few miles from Tehran airport???? Not a chance. USA or Israel maybe but I doubt even they would do that

This happened at the same time as the Iranians were sending salvos across to US bases in Iraq, giving them every reason to believe that the US would retaliate and hence their deployment of a BOK type surface-to-air defence system at Tehran airport. It's not a hugely sophisticated system (Russian-built) but add to the mix unsophisticated/poorly trained operators and you end up with the disaster we've got. At the very minimum, all civilian air movements should have been suspended at Tehran for as long as necessary.

Sure, Trump kicked this whole shitshow off, but the Iranians have blown a mighty hole in their own heads here. Surely they must realise that with so much global satellite surveillance, every surface-to-air operation in the globe will be detected? On the other hand, they may just be totally incompetent.

https://www.nytimes.com/ 

[indianajones]

I heard on the radio this morning that a certain Canadian city has a lot of Iranians living it. I think they even called it something like 'iranto'. 

[Sharpie]

3 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Why was there so many canadians on the flight? Seems a bit weird no?

 

From the interviews I have seen a lot of them went back for the holiday period.

Apologies didn't see Maple Leafs answer earlier.

Edited January 10, 2020 by bobsharp

[ri Alban]

6 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Not everything is a conspiracy, terrible accidents do happen.

 

For all we know, some Iranian soldier, on high alert all night fearing American jets are going to start bombing Iran, stressed to feck and tired, hears an aircraft, sees a blip on his screen, locks onto the target and fires a couple of anti-aircraft missles at it, sees the missles hit the target and the plane falls to the ground.

Only then does he think, oh crap was that a passenger plane I just hit, oh feck what have I done, oh fecking hell, shit.

 

As was mentioned earlier on this thread about American 'friendly fire', the Americans didn't target British planes or soldiers deliberately, no they were probably stressed to hell & scared to shit and the classic 'shoot first and ask questions later' scenario ensued.

 

And that could well be what happened here, we simply don't know and probably will never know for certain, but that doesn't mean there is conspiracy, just because we don't know what actually happened.

 

Na, the American pilots were on speed, no sorry, go pills.

[jack D and coke]

4 hours ago, bobsharp said:

 

From the interviews I have seen a lot of them went back for the holiday period.

Apologies didn't see Maple Leafs answer earlier.

No worries Bob 👍🏼

[Jambo-Jimbo]

11 hours ago, Cruyff said:

Terrible accidents do happen but it's a very strange coincidence that it happened when it did. Also, the Iranians claimed originally that it was down to a mechanical failure. Surely they'd know if they had fired a SAM missle. The whole thing is stinking. 

 

Do you really expect the Iranians to just admit that they had shot down a passenger plane.

I'll tell you what stinks, it's how on earth did the Iranians know it was mechanical failure within minutes of the plane going down.

[Victorian]

New video footage seems to leave very little doubt.    All those people snuffed out because of an epic **** up or a murderous deliberate act.

 

It might be a decent idea to prevent them becoming a nuclear armed power then.    Oh wait...

[The Internet]

It was quite obvious from the beginning that it was either bombed or shot down, no danger did a plane drop from the sky through mechanical issues in that area at that time by coincidence. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

43 minutes ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

It was quite obvious from the beginning that it was either bombed or shot down, no danger did a plane drop from the sky through mechanical issues in that area at that time by coincidence. 

 

It is also quite telling that the Iranians have already bulldozed the entire site and left the wreckage laying in piles, this was before the Ukrainian investigators had a chance to inspect the site, thus all the evidence has already been destroyed, maybe.

[John Findlay]

1 hour ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Do you really expect the Iranians to just admit that they had shot down a passenger plane.

I'll tell you what stinks, it's how on earth did the Iranians know it was mechanical failure within minutes of the plane going down.

It was mechanical failure. The Iranian SAM hit the planes engine, therefore causing it to have a mechanical failure.

[Cruyff]

1 hour ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Do you really expect the Iranians to just admit that they had shot down a passenger plane.

I'll tell you what stinks, it's how on earth did the Iranians know it was mechanical failure within minutes of the plane going down.

Of course not but the US have said it was an accidental firing of a missle and Iran are saying mechanical failure. It's as if the Americans are trying to cover Iran's ass.

 

So how do the Americans know it was an accident when the Iranians don't even want to admit it was a missle. 

 

It's absolutely ludicrous and they are both lying to cover up the real reasons.

[Cade]

[Jambo-Jimbo]

35 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

It was mechanical failure. The Iranian SAM hit the planes engine, therefore causing it to have a mechanical failure.

 

That'll be it. 👍