Naismith Injury

[Crete]

1 minute ago, GorgieRules22 said:

Was he at Riccarton when the rest of the team met Daniel Stendel the other day ? Was he also at the sick kids when the squad were there handing out gifts ?

 

Serious questions, just I never noticed him.

 

I didn’t notice him in any of the pictures ,injured or not he should be there surely he can’t pick and choose when he wants to turn up.

I just hope he can stay injury free when he comes back as we need him.

[Mac80]

11 hours ago, S Form said:

He’s a *^^^ing twat. We don’t need people who play when they fancy it. He should commit t us or **** off.

 

11 hours ago, S Form said:

He’s a complete shitebag. One of the highest paid players in our team and contributing **** all. He’s a ****ing disgrace.

gtf clown

[gashauskis9]

The guy constantly mentions Levein as the reason he came here and the reason he signed a 4 year contract.  Wouldn’t shock me in the slightest if he holds the rest of the squad accountable for Levein’s sacking and has isolated himself as a result.

[BobbyJenkins]

1 hour ago, Coco said:

If we could get them all fit and firing I'd like to see more of Naismith, Washington and Walker as a front 3.  If we could get them fit.

That would improve us massively. Hopefully not far off.

[GorgieRules22]

Just now, BobbyJenkins said:

That would improve us massively. Hopefully not far off.

Not sure we’ll see they three play together very much.

[BobbyJenkins]

Just now, GorgieRules22 said:

Not sure we’ll see they three play together very much.

Who knows. Hopefully.

[Nelly Terraces]

Doing a Hughes & keeping himself fit & ticking over with the odd game for Hearts in between being instantly & miraculously fit to play for his International side.

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

We were right to sign him. He is one of the top 5 players in the league.

 

What I would say is, with his recent lengthy injury problems, if he had any respect for the club he would retire from playing for Scotland. At least until he was 6 months clear of injuries.

 

His obsession with playing pointless games for a shite Scotland team when we really just needed to build up his match fitness has really annoyed me.

 

His injury now is as much down to those 2 pointless Scotland games as it is anything else.

[Hot since 86]

5 minutes ago, Gashauskis9 said:

The guy constantly mentions Levein as the reason he came here and the reason he signed a 4 year contract.  Wouldn’t shock me in the slightest if he holds the rest of the squad accountable for Levein’s sacking and has isolated himself as a result.

Seems like a bit of a stretch unless you know something?

 

also I’m sure he couldn’t believe his luck when we offered that length of contract. 

Edited December 15, 2019 by Hot since 86

[gashauskis9]

27 minutes ago, Hot since 86 said:

Seems like a bit of a stretch unless you know something?

 

also I’m sure he couldn’t believe his luck when we offered that length of contract. 

The first part is pure fact, the rest is pure speculation from me (I’m nowhere near irk).

[JFK-1]

32 minutes ago, Hot since 86 said:

I’m sure he couldn’t believe his luck when we offered that length of contract. 

 

That's the bit that gets me about it. I'm not going to question his professionalism or commitment but a 4 year contract for a 33 year old who has an injury history?

Who was injured and recovering from knee surgery when he signed it? It's bizarre.

[Jamboscanbevicius]

Naismith is a committed pro and not the type to want to sit on the sidelines. I fully believe he’s injured.

 

However, he is also astute in comparison to most and understands the importance of his career and looking after his family. 
 

So I have no doubt he pushed for a 4 year contract knowing he will play less and less each year. I would have done the same in that position. 
 

But he’s only 32, and by far our best player. Would get a game for any side in this league. Really hops DS puts an arm around him as we need him back ASAP!

Edited December 15, 2019 by Jamboscanbevicius

[Hot since 86]

2 minutes ago, Jamboscanbevicius said:

Naismith is a committed pro and not the type to want to sit on the sidelines. I fully believe he’s injured.

 

However, he is also astute in comparison to most and understands the importance of his career and looking after his family. 
 

So I have no doubt he pushed for a 4 year contract knowing he will play less and less each year. I would have done the same in that position. 
 

But he’s only 32, and by far our best player. Would get a game for any side in this league. Really hops DS puts an arm around him as we need him back ASAP!

Every player pushes for a long contract and lots of money, it doesn’t make him or his agent astute it just makes us ****ing idiots for offering it.

 

When his contract is up (either in 4 years or settled at great expense before) I’m sure if you worked out how much he was paid per game it will be terrible business by the club.

[Jamboscanbevicius]

3 minutes ago, Hot since 86 said:

Every player pushes for a long contract and lots of money, it doesn’t make him or his agent astute it just makes us ****ing idiots for offering it.

 

When his contract is up (either in 4 years or settled at great expense before) I’m sure if you worked out how much he was paid per game it will be terrible business by the club.

Possibly... yet we all wanted him signed. Suspect we had to make it longer as we couldn’t meet what he wanted per week for a shorter contract. He is miles better than anything else we have and one of the best players in the league. We didn’t hold a lot of cards in the negotiation!

[JFK-1]

5 minutes ago, Jamboscanbevicius said:

Naismith is a committed pro and not the type to want to sit on the sidelines. I fully believe he’s injured.

 

However, he is also astute in comparison to most and understands the importance of his career and looking after his family. 
 

So I have no doubt he pushed for a 4 year contract knowing he will play less and less each year. I would have done the same in that position. 
 

But he’s only 32, and by far our best player. Would get a game for any side in this league. Really hops DS puts an arm around him as we need him back ASAP!

 

His commitment is irrelevant and personally i'm not questioning it. 

 

The issue is how many sides in the league would give a lucrative 4 year contract to a 33 year old who had been frequently injured and who was actually out injured and having knee surgery when the contract was offered?

Who has played a total of 206 minutes since signing that contract. It takes longer than that to achieve full match fitness.

[Hot since 86]

1 minute ago, Jamboscanbevicius said:

Possibly... yet we all wanted him signed. Suspect we had to make it longer as we couldn’t meet what he wanted per week for a shorter contract. He is miles better than anything else we have and one of the best players in the league. We didn’t hold a lot of cards in the negotiation!

Clubs are meant to be smarter than the fans and we got taken to the cleaners by Naismith and his agent.

 

Another example of the terrible mismanagement at our club.

[JFK-1]

4 minutes ago, Hot since 86 said:

Clubs are meant to be smarter than the fans and we got taken to the cleaners by Naismith and his agent.

 

Another example of the terrible mismanagement at our club.

 

It's the only thing I really question about the Levein tenure. This team is struggling no matter who sits in the managers chair and that's been proven recently.

But this contract for a constantly injured player in his 30's is mind boggling. That's a long contract for players in their lower 20's never mind 30's. Few players get a contract that long. Typically only top class with a sell on value.

Rangers signed Steven Davis who is of a similar age and has been playing a blinder for them on a one year contract. I'm sure he would have liked a 4 year contract but i'm also sure they wouldn't even think about it.

That's the real issue about the Naismith contract. Even if he had been playing frequently 33 year olds don't get 4 year contracts.

[Hot since 86]

3 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

It's the only thing I really question about the Levein tenure. This team is struggling no matter who sits in the managers chair and that's been proven recently.

But this contract for a constantly injured player in his 30's is mind boggling. That's a long contract for players in their lower 20's never mind 30's. Few players get a contract that long. Typically only top class with a sell on value.

Rangers signed Steven Davis who is of a similar age and has been playing a blinder for them on a one year contract. I'm sure he would have liked a 4 year contract but i'm also sure they wouldn't even think about it.

That's the real issue about the Naismith contract. Even if he had been playing frequently 33 year olds don't get 4 year contracts.

Disagree with it being the only question about Levein’s tenure but the rest is spot on. So many strange decisions recently and it reeks of desperation and incompetence.

Edited December 15, 2019 by Hot since 86

[wavydavy]

On 08/12/2019 at 18:38, Gashauskis9 said:

Fingers crossed he’ll be back for the Celtic game in some capacity then. Failing that, just make sure he’s back for his first derby in a year!

 

I would say that unless he is 100% fit then we should not even consider him as he will be more likely to make his injury worse and end up out even longer.

 

We will need him fully fit for the upcoming games and lets face it with the team the way it is at the moment we are going to be doing well to keep the score below about 5 goals.

 

I know we have beaten them before at Tynecastle but the heads are well and truly down at the moment and our zonal marking is going to give Celtic a field day.

[wavydavy]

8 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

It's the only thing I really question about the Levein tenure. This team is struggling no matter who sits in the managers chair and that's been proven recently.

But this contract for a constantly injured player in his 30's is mind boggling. That's a long contract for players in their lower 20's never mind 30's. Few players get a contract that long. Typically only top class with a sell on value.

Rangers signed Steven Davis who is of a similar age and has been playing a blinder for them on a one year contract. I'm sure he would have liked a 4 year contract but i'm also sure they wouldn't even think about it.

That's the real issue about the Naismith contract. Even if he had been playing frequently 33 year olds don't get 4 year contracts.

 

You really can't be serious?

[wavydavy]

34 minutes ago, Jamboscanbevicius said:

Naismith is a committed pro and not the type to want to sit on the sidelines. I fully believe he’s injured.

 

However, he is also astute in comparison to most and understands the importance of his career and looking after his family. 
 

So I have no doubt he pushed for a 4 year contract knowing he will play less and less each year. I would have done the same in that position. 
 

But he’s only 32, and by far our best player. Would get a game for any side in this league. Really hops DS puts an arm around him as we need him back ASAP!

 

 

He was 33 in September.

[gashauskis9]

6 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

I would say that unless he is 100% fit then we should not even consider him as he will be more likely to make his injury worse and end up out even longer.

 

We will need him fully fit for the upcoming games and lets face it with the team the way it is at the moment we are going to be doing well to keep the score below about 5 goals.

 

I know we have beaten them before at Tynecastle but the heads are well and truly down at the moment and our zonal marking is going to give Celtic a field day.

To be fair chief, my post is a week old.  I was hoping progress would have been made and we would have had an update, but the silence makes me suspect that it’s not good news.

[JFK-1]

Just now, wavydavy said:

 

You really can't be serious?

 

Yes, i'm not a footballing expert, none of us are. Two have occupied the chair since he left it and come up with similar results. That's what I see. No one can turn this team around right now.

I have said before that the league outside the OF is remarkably well balanced due to the fact they're all shopping in he same league 1/2 freebie market. The likes of Hearts and Aberdeen have something of a financial advantage but it's minuscule in comparison to the advantage the OF have over everybody.

The only real edge the likes of Hearts and Aberdeen have is a sprinkling of maybe 3 or 4 somewhat better quality players who can make the difference. Take them out as has happened to Hearts and you're no better than the rest.

Take out Cosgrove plus say two of their first pick midfielders and their best defender from the Aberdeen side and what would happen to them? I would argue pretty much the same thing as is happening to Hearts which is exactly why Aberdeen too recently struggled to get a point against St Johnstone at home.

McInnes put it down to injuries and he was right. And their injury woes are nothing like those of Hearts.

[wavydavy]

3 minutes ago, Gashauskis9 said:

To be fair chief, my post is a week old.  I was hoping progress would have been made and we would have had an update, but the silence makes me suspect that it’s not good news.

👍

[wavydavy]

Just now, JFK-1 said:

 

Yes, i'm not a footballing expert, none of us are. Two have occupied the chair since he left it and come up with similar results. That's what I see. No one can turn this team around right now.

I have said before that the league outside the OF is remarkably well balanced due to the fact they're all shopping in he same league 1/2 freebie market. The likes of Hearts and Aberdeen have something of a financial advantage but it's minuscule in comparison to the advantage the OF have over everybody.

The only real edge the likes of Hearts and Aberdeen have is a sprinkling of maybe 3 or 4 somewhat better quality players who can make the difference. Take them out as has happened to Hearts and you're no better than the rest.

Take out Cosgrove plus say two of their first pick midfielders and their best defender from the Aberdeen side and what would happen to them? I would argue pretty much the same thing as is happening to Hearts which is exactly why Aberdeen too recently struggled to get a point against St Johnstone at home.

McInnes put it down to injuries and he was right. And their injury woes are nothing like those of Hearts.

 

 

Do you thiink that might have something to do with the players that Levein and McPhee signed ?

 

I really don't want to get into all of this again because I have made my thoughsi on this known many times and others are bored hearing it all again so I will not respond to anything you come back with.

[JFK-1]

1 minute ago, wavydavy said:

 

 

Do you thiink that might have something to do with the players that Levein and McPhee signed ?

 

Definitely a factor which is why i'm commenting on this thread about a signing. But again what would happen to Aberdeen if you were to take out their few players of quality as has happened to Hearts?

The loss of Cosgrove alone would severely hamper them and then you would find all of McInnes signings being questioned in the same manner Leveins are.

[Jambof3tornado]

27 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

It's the only thing I really question about the Levein tenure. This team is struggling no matter who sits in the managers chair and that's been proven recently.

But this contract for a constantly injured player in his 30's is mind boggling. That's a long contract for players in their lower 20's never mind 30's. Few players get a contract that long. Typically only top class with a sell on value.

Rangers signed Steven Davis who is of a similar age and has been playing a blinder for them on a one year contract. I'm sure he would have liked a 4 year contract but i'm also sure they wouldn't even think about it.

That's the real issue about the Naismith contract. Even if he had been playing frequently 33 year olds don't get 4 year contracts.

Davis was offered good money. Naismith was offered much less than he could have commanded elsewhere.

[S Form]

1 hour ago, Mac80 said:

 

gtf clown

You’re right. My comments were inflamed by anger at the performance and too much alcohol. I apologise and withdraw them.

[JFK-1]

10 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

Davis was offered good money. Naismith was offered much less than he could have commanded elsewhere.

 

So who exactly was offering him better money elsewhere? I know of no one else who was linked and better money would have to be better than what he will earn over 4 years at Hearts.

The issue is giving a 4 year contract of any value at all to a 33 year old who has a such an injury history. It's not rational and doesn't compare to the 1 year contract given to Davis. He has been one of their key players and they can afford whatever they're paying him.

Hearts can't afford this type of contract for a non playing 33 year old. 

Edited December 15, 2019 by JFK-1

[Hot since 86]

7 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

Davis was offered good money. Naismith was offered much less than he could have commanded elsewhere.

Is that much less per week or much less over the 4 year period?

 

[Hot since 86]

19 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

Yes, i'm not a footballing expert, none of us are. Two have occupied the chair since he left it and come up with similar results. That's what I see. No one can turn this team around right now.

I have said before that the league outside the OF is remarkably well balanced due to the fact they're all shopping in he same league 1/2 freebie market. The likes of Hearts and Aberdeen have something of a financial advantage but it's minuscule in comparison to the advantage the OF have over everybody.

The only real edge the likes of Hearts and Aberdeen have is a sprinkling of maybe 3 or 4 somewhat better quality players who can make the difference. Take them out as has happened to Hearts and you're no better than the rest.

Take out Cosgrove plus say two of their first pick midfielders and their best defender from the Aberdeen side and what would happen to them? I would argue pretty much the same thing as is happening to Hearts which is exactly why Aberdeen too recently struggled to get a point against St Johnstone at home.

McInnes put it down to injuries and he was right. And their injury woes are nothing like those of Hearts.

You have very low expectations for our football club. I can only hope the club are more ambitious than you are or we would be as well packing it in.

[JFK-1]

Just now, Hot since 86 said:

You have very low expectations for our football club. I can only hope the club are more ambitious than you are or we would be as well packing it in.

 

What expectations did I propose?

[Whatever]

Don’t know how much Motherwell spent on their pitch but from watching the game just now, it looks to be in far better condition than ours.

[Hot since 86]

Just now, JFK-1 said:

 

What expectations did I propose?

You seem to be suggesting (sorry if I misinterpreted) that our injuries are an excuse for the last 12 months performances?

 

If you are comfortable and accepting of being bottom of the league you’re expectations seem to be very low and a club of our stature, with our budget and squad (which is ****ing massive btw) should be at the other end of the table and challenging for Europe and cups every year.

 

That’s my expectation and if it’s yours as well I apologise for not understanding your post.

[Robbo-Jambo]

1 hour ago, Crete said:

 

I didn’t notice him in any of the pictures ,injured or not he should be there surely he can’t pick and choose when he wants to turn up.

I just hope he can stay injury free when he comes back as we need him.

Probably sitting in deepest Ayrshire doing his own thing in the gym at home. 

 

I personally think his hamstrings are done.

 

The months and months he spent with his hamstring injury before he came back was a bit strange to me. 

 

He never even had an operation on the hamstring injury like Berra or Washington. 

 

Think it will 2 or 3 games then out injured for a lengthy spell. 

 

Hope I am wrong though. 

[JFK-1]

1 minute ago, Hot since 86 said:

You seem to be suggesting (sorry if I misinterpreted) that our injuries are an excuse for the last 12 months performances?

 

If you are comfortable and accepting of being bottom of the league you’re expectations seem to be very low and a club of our stature, with our budget and squad (which is ****ing massive btw) should be at the other end of the table and challenging for Europe and cups every year.

 

That’s my expectation and if it’s yours as well I apologise for not understanding your post.

 

The performances are a result of missing the little quality available, or not available in this case. The budget is no massive advantage like the OF have. All it can provide is handful or less of somewhat better quality.

Take that out and you're down with the pack. I covered that when pointing out that Aberdeen couldn't beat St Johnstone at home either which McInnes put down to a couple of injuries nothing like the injuries Hearts have been enduring.

[tcjambo]

43 minutes ago, Hot since 86 said:

Disagree with it being the only question about Levein’s tenure but the rest is spot on. So many strange decisions recently and it reeks of desperation and incompetence.

And the fans being desperate for Levein to tie him down on a 2-3 year contract. Let's not try and pretend 90% on here didn't want that. The fans were also jubilant when Souttar, Haring, Uche,Smith and Cochrane all signed up for a few more years. Between those 6 players I doubt we have had much more than the eqivalent of one starter per game in the last year.

[Hot since 86]

1 minute ago, tcjambo said:

And the fans being desperate for Levein to tie him down on a 2-3 year contract. Let's not try and pretend 90% on here didn't want that. The fans were also jubilant when Souttar, Haring, Uche,Smith and Cochrane all signed up for a few more years. Between those 6 players I doubt we have had much more than the eqivalent of one starter per game in the last year.

The fans don’t negotiate contracts for very good reason but I’m sure that even most of us would have realised how stupid giving him a 4 year deal was.

[Hot since 86]

4 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

The performances are a result of missing the little quality available, or not available in this case. The budget is no massive advantage like the OF have. All it can provide is handful or less of somewhat better quality.

Take that out and you're down with the pack. I covered that when pointing out that Aberdeen couldn't beat St Johnstone at home either which McInnes put down to a couple of injuries nothing like the injuries Hearts have been enduring.

Our performances have been dreadful no matter who has played. 

 

I would also point out we aren’t down with the pack but a good way below most of them and sinking.

[tcjambo]

1 minute ago, Hot since 86 said:

The fans don’t negotiate contracts for very good reason but I’m sure that even most of us would have realised how stupid giving him a 4 year deal was.

That might have been the only basis upon which he would have signed and it probably incldes a clause about moves into coaching or management. Maybe that is why Stendel's contract stops a year before Naismith's?

[JFK-1]

Just now, Hot since 86 said:

I would also point out we aren’t down with the pack but a good way below most of them and sinking.

 

I agree but even Stendel is now already saying that little bit of quality has to return from injury before much will change. By coincidence exactly what Levein said and I believe them.

[Ainsley Harriott]

I'm sure he will have a miraculous recovery come the next lot of internationals. Hes another Larry Kingston but gets away with it as hes a gid scottish laddie 

[Hot since 86]

1 minute ago, tcjambo said:

That might have been the only basis upon which he would have signed and it probably incldes a clause about moves into coaching or management. Maybe that is why Stendel's contract stops a year before Naismith's?

Potentially, I don’t know anything about that. What I do know is that he is signed as a player at 33 for 4 years and has a recent history of injuries.

 

[MarkDevriesScores4]

Don’t know how many times I need to repeat this. We can’t build a team or rely on Naismith. He’ll play 10-15 per season. 
 

if he’s not been to tynecastle to meet the new gaffer, he should have his wages stopped and dropped. Have him make tea and coffee in the office for the next 4 years.

[JFK-1]

5 minutes ago, MarkDevriesScores4 said:

Don’t know how many times I need to repeat this. We can’t build a team or rely on Naismith. He’ll play 10-15 per season. 
 

if he’s not been to tynecastle to meet the new gaffer, he should have his wages stopped and dropped. Have him make tea and coffee in the office for the next 4 years.

 

Thing is he has his contract, there is no option to stop his wages. I doubt anyone would disagree the contract he got was bizarre. A year on good wages or longer on pay for play would have been more rational. 

[MarkDevriesScores4]

1 minute ago, JFK-1 said:

 

Thing is he has his contract, there is no option to stop his wages. I doubt anyone would disagree the contract he got was bizarre. A year on good wages or longer on pay for play would have been more rational. 

I dearly hope he has been to meet Daniel. Maybe can’t stop his wages but if he treats the place like he’s the boss then he needs dropped permanently. 
 

this needs to be a new start, no more egos. Naismith might be the best player we have but that means nothing when the rest of the squad would struggle to get on the bench at Partick thistle.

 

we owe Naismith nothing. He owes hearts a great deal. It’s about time he started showing it.

[graygo]

1 hour ago, JFK-1 said:

 

It's the only thing I really question about the Levein tenure. This team is struggling no matter who sits in the managers chair and that's been proven recently.

But this contract for a constantly injured player in his 30's is mind boggling. That's a long contract for players in their lower 20's never mind 30's. Few players get a contract that long. Typically only top class with a sell on value.

Rangers signed Steven Davis who is of a similar age and has been playing a blinder for them on a one year contract. I'm sure he would have liked a 4 year contract but i'm also sure they wouldn't even think about it.

That's the real issue about the Naismith contract. Even if he had been playing frequently 33 year olds don't get 4 year contracts.

Naismith would probably have accepted a shorter length of contract if we were able to offer the wages Davis is getting.

 

Sorry, should have read on as already covered.

Edited December 15, 2019 by graygo

[Famous 1874]

Any danger of the club being a bit more transparent regarding injuries, haven’t heard about any of the players for a while now 

[JFK-1]

5 minutes ago, graygo said:

Naismith would probably have accepted a shorter length of contract if we were able to offer the wages Davis is getting.

 

No one would offer Naismith the wages Davis is likely getting. And further I doubt anyone would have offered him 4 years on anything but pay for play.

[graygo]

Just now, JFK-1 said:

 

No one would offer Naismith the wages Davis is likely getting. And further I doubt anyone would have offered him 4 years on anything but pay for play.

Agreed and to be fair no one apart from the Rangers would offer Davis the wages he is likely getting either.