sadj Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Locky said: Real men drink Bovril in any weather. Maybe the reason our national team is a mess is down to kids not being brought up on a pie n bovril at the footie. 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gorgie Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 (edited) How long before the plane comes out? ✈-------[Levein oot!] Edited October 18, 2019 by TheStig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Hans Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Ron Burgundy said: Didn't realise until it was mentioned on another thread that the walk up prices for this are £32 - £44. A televised game, early KO on a Sunday FFS. Forget Levein, there should be a protest about this. Tbf, it looks like a sizeable amount of Hearts fans are giving this game a swerve so the only folk we are ripping off are the 3,500 orcs. Money spinner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norrie1952 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 2 hours ago, Nookie Bear said: Vlad would've sacked him after beating celtic 4-0 He most certainly would.Only vlad wanted the plaudits,anyone else taking the spotlight got binned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WheatfieldWarrior Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 2 hours ago, Ron Burgundy said: Didn't realise until it was mentioned on another thread that the walk up prices for this are £32 - £44. A televised game, early KO on a Sunday FFS. Forget Levein, there should be a protest about this. Home end will be full of Rangers fans anyway - may as well make them pay for the privilege. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Burgundy Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, WheatfieldWarrior said: Home end will be full of Rangers fans anyway - may as well make them pay for the privilege. Probably be a good few in the home end, hopefully there is no bother cos Ann aint gonna go after that lot. It'll be all the Hearts fans fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiler Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 7 minutes ago, WheatfieldWarrior said: Home end will be full of Rangers fans anyway - may as well make them pay for the privilege. Aye probably be a few, hopefully the Hearts fans won't shit the bed, like the team has been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 2 hours ago, Ron Burgundy said: Didn't realise until it was mentioned on another thread that the walk up prices for this are £32 - £44. A televised game, early KO on a Sunday FFS. Forget Levein, there should be a protest about this. Correct, Ron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 (edited) There should be a season ticket where you are only charged if the game is not on the box And perhaps a bit more flexibility over pricing other seats when the game is live on tv. Edited October 18, 2019 by Nookie Bear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Nookie Bear said: There should be a season ticket where you are only charged if the game is not on the box And perhaps a bit more flexibility over pricing other seats when the game is live on tv. There is...it’s called a Cat B ticket ! 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 7 minutes ago, Boab said: There is...it’s called a Cat B ticket ! 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 (edited) Can we set up a counter protest. Calling all genuine fans. We can sing - We'll support you every more. Only one Sean Clare Craig Levein's barmy army. We shall not be mov.. Sorry budged? Clap our hands as we march. Stop for a twirly. Maybe even sing "Edinburgh is wonderful except for huns, hibs and boycotters". Edited October 18, 2019 by Smith's right boot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debut 4 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absolute Scenes Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said: Can we set up a counter protest. Calling all genuine fans. We can sing - We'll support you every more. Only one Sean Clare Craig Levein's barmy army. We shall not be mov.. Sorry budged? Clap our hands as we match. Stop for a twirly. Maybe even sing "Edinburgh is wonderful except for huns, hibs and boycotters". You forgot a rendition of the hearts song that is started too high so when we get to “you can’t go wrong” it goes silent except for a few loud squeaks, and then the rest triples in speed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Shark Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said: Can we set up a counter protest. Calling all genuine fans. We can sing - We'll support you every more. Only one Sean Clare Craig Levein's barmy army. We shall not be mov.. Sorry budged? Clap our hands as we match. Stop for a twirly. Maybe even sing "Edinburgh is wonderful except for huns, hibs and boycotters". Why not give it a go and see how you get on ? What's the worst that can happen. Post on here updates on how you're getting on for all of us that'll be in The Plaza protesting and everyone will be a winner 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Need a poll. 1. Are you protesting the boycott? 2. Are you boycotting the protest? 3. ST Johnstone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kila Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 4 minutes ago, Bridge of Djoum said: Need a poll. 1. Are you protesting the boycott? 2. Are you boycotting the protest? 3. ST Johnstone? 4. ??? 5. Profit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Laff Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 18 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said: Can we set up a counter protest. Calling all genuine fans. We can sing - We'll support you every more. Only one Sean Clare Craig Levein's barmy army. We shall not be mov.. Sorry budged? Clap our hands as we march. Stop for a twirly. Maybe even sing "Edinburgh is wonderful except for huns, hibs and boycotters". Fancy starting your own thread then instead of polluting any you don’t agree with, with your usually trivial nonsense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Yes, Smith’s right boot. Only comment on topics you agree with. Dont you know how debate and forums work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 7 minutes ago, kila said: 4. ??? 5. Profit! I should’ve included an option for joining a protest at Meggatland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Last Laff said: Fancy starting your own thread then instead of polluting any you don’t agree with, with your usually trivial nonsense? What about a protest to protest against the counter protest that is protesting against the protest. 3 protests on the go all at once. Edited October 18, 2019 by Smith's right boot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annushorribilis III Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 16 minutes ago, Last Laff said: Fancy starting your own thread then instead of polluting any you don’t agree with, with your usually trivial nonsense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 13 minutes ago, Bridge of Djoum said: Need a poll. 1. Are you protesting the boycott? 2. Are you boycotting the protest? 3. ST Johnstone? 1. Yes. 2. Yes. 3. Draw or defeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Laff Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 16 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said: What about a protest to protest against the counter protest that is protesting against the protest. 3 protests on the go all at once. Why not stick to the actual topic of the thread instead of going off on one because you don’t agree? Make your own thread, see how popular it is or something instead of getting yourself wound up with something we’ve already read about 16,000 times you don’t agree with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 59 minutes ago, Boab said: There is...it’s called a Cat B ticket ! 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Laff Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Bridge of Djoum said: Yes, Smith’s right boot. Only comment on topics you agree with. Dont you know how debate and forums work? We know he doesn’t agree with the topic of the thread. As you don’t. You’ve said you’re peace loads now why go elsewhere? Where in the thread title or the opening message give much indication it was an up for debate type thread? People disagree, we get it, people ridicule folk that want to protest but change the ****ing record if you’re not being proactive in a thread of this type. Edited October 18, 2019 by Last Laff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Just now, Last Laff said: Why not stick to the actual topic of the thread instead of going off on one because you don’t agree? Make your own thread, see how popular it is or something instead of getting yourself wound up with something we’ve already read about 16,000 times you don’t agree with? The only person I see getting wound up is you. He’s trolling the **** out of you. You’re getting thrown around like a dog toy. Brilliant stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Just now, Last Laff said: We know he doesn’t agree with the topic of the thread. As you don’t. You’ve said you’re peace loads now why go elsewhere? What in the name of holy **** does any of this mean? Is it your carers day off or summit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Laff Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Just now, Bridge of Djoum said: What in the name of holy **** does any of this mean? Is it your carers day off or summit? That wouldn’t be an out of town “Jambo” being patronising or belittling others (as usual) would it? To answer your question. You don’t agree with the protest, you’ve stated this in your usual passive aggressive manor many times. Why not go onto a thread that interests you more in that case? Unless you’re actively looking to troll members who have had enough that much and that care about the club that much they are going to protest about the way the footballing side of the club is ran? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 12 minutes ago, Last Laff said: That wouldn’t be an out of town “Jambo” being patronising or belittling others (as usual) would it? To answer your question. You don’t agree with the protest, you’ve stated this in your usual passive aggressive manor many times. Why not go onto a thread that interests you more in that case? Unless you’re actively looking to troll members who have had enough that much and that care about the club that much they are going to protest about the way the footballing side of the club is ran? No, that’s untrue, chief. I’m all for protesting. Nothing will come of it but if it’s your thing, go for it. Its the rhetoric surrounding it that that bothers me. Im the kinda person that supports in the good times and bad. Let’s face it, being a Hearts fan it’s usually mediocre. This is a low point in recent history, agreed. I’m ****** if I’m gonna wet myself over it though. Good of luck to you and all those boycotting and or protesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirt Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Bridge of Djoum said: No, that’s untrue, chief. I’m all for protesting. Nothing will come of it but if it’s your thing, go for it. Its the rhetoric surrounding it that that bothers me. Im the kinda person that supports in the good times and bad. Let’s face it, being a Hearts fan it’s usually mediocre. This is a low point in recent history, agreed. I’m ****** if I’m gonna wet myself over it though. Good of luck to you and all those boycotting and or protesting. I’ll second every word of that. Levein will get this season, as much as that pains me it’s the way it is. The only thing we can do to try and make things improve is support the players. IMO, of course. Edited October 18, 2019 by Squirt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Protesting and boycotting over something that is essentially every year of our history, bar a handful of good seasons, to me, is nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debut 4 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Just now, Bridge of Djoum said: Protesting and boycotting over something that is essentially every year of our history, bar a handful of good seasons, to me, is nuts. Every year of our history? You do know we average 3rd, aye? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Just now, Debut 4 said: Every year of our history? You do know we average 3rd, aye? We do? Ok, allow me rephrase it. Most seasons, at least in my 46 years have been average at the very best. Going further back, most years since our incredible success in the 50’s have been bang average at very best. Since RN left, (mind there were protests) we havebeen pretty awful to watch. Most protests have a goal, a point. Are any of the “leaders” on here able to inform of the ultimate aim of this? Is it just Levein oot? Budge too? What exactly are they protesting and what do they want? Is any other action being taken to achieve these goals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debut 4 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 22 minutes ago, Last Laff said: That wouldn’t be an out of town “Jambo” being patronising or belittling others (as usual) would it? To answer your question. You don’t agree with the protest, you’ve stated this in your usual passive aggressive manor many times. Why not go onto a thread that interests you more in that case? Unless you’re actively looking to troll members who have had enough that much and that care about the club that much they are going to protest about the way the footballing side of the club is ran? It’s sad. There’s a section of the support who think they are above protesting, demos...etc....if it wasn’t for the SOH folk and supporters who protestedand marched , we wouldn’t have got to the Romanov years, never mind Ann Budge. Ordinary fans are just wanting the best for the team. Football can get nasty, that’s just the way it is. People have passion some will never understand but there’s a culture growing in the support now that it’s just about accepting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 12 minutes ago, Squirt said: I’ll second every word of that. Levein will get this season, as much as that pains me it’s the way it is. The only thing we can do to try and make things improve is support the players. IMO, of course. Yep. I agree with that. I want him gone from managerial duties, undecided on upstairs roles. He’s here for the season and I believe supporting the team is the best option. I understand others think differently even though I don’t agree with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debut 4 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Bridge of Djoum said: We do? Ok, allow me rephrase it. Most seasons, at least in my 46 years have been average at the very best. Going further back, most years since our incredible success in the 50’s have been bang average at very best. Since RN left, (mind there were protests) we havebeen pretty awful to watch. Most protests have a goal, a point. Are any of the “leaders” on here able to inform of the ultimate aim of this? Is it just Levein oot? Budge too? What exactly are they protesting and what do they want? Is any other action being taken to achieve these goals? Even if you were right, what’s wrong with fighting for better anyway? It’s exactly what’s wrong with quite a few Hearts fans. “Ah well, we’re shite now and again anyway”. It’s a poison. Put demands on the team and club when justified. Fans CAN influence the attitude in a club, we have done before just like other clubs supporters. We slag the old firm, particularly Rangers fans , for their apparent delusions and entitlement but at least their attitude drips into the psyche of their club and you better believe they fight for it. In the end they always come good. They don’t accept pish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Debut 4 said: Even if you were right, what’s wrong with fighting for better anyway? It’s exactly what’s wrong with quite a few Hearts fans. “Ah well, we’re shite now and again anyway”. It’s a poison. Put demands on the team and club when justified. Fans CAN influence the attitude in a club, we have done before just like other clubs supporters. We slag the old firm, particularly Rangers fans , for their apparent delusions and entitlement but at least their attitude drips into the psyche of their club and you better believe they fight for it. In the end they always come good. They don’t accept pish. You do realize Rangers fans stood by and let the club die, yes? Even if you are correct you’ve used about the worst club as an example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirt Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Debut 4 said: Even if you were right, what’s wrong with fighting for better anyway? It’s exactly what’s wrong with quite a few Hearts fans. “Ah well, we’re shite now and again anyway”. It’s a poison. Put demands on the team and club when justified. Fans CAN influence the attitude in a club, we have done before just like other clubs supporters. We slag the old firm, particularly Rangers fans , for their apparent delusions and entitlement but at least their attitude drips into the psyche of their club and you better believe they fight for it. In the end they always come good. They don’t accept pish. Rangers and Celtic have the money in the bank and people in the stands to ensure they meet those expectations. A privilege the rest of us don’t, nor ever will, have. The problem I personally have at the moment is any Tynecastle, whilst it used to be an intimidating venue for away teams is now the exact opposite. We are on top of our own players after 10 minutes and two loose passes and they can’t deal with it. They shit their pants and hide. Maybe getting Levein gone would change this, we’d give a new manager some slack, maybe, and in turn give the team a little more slack and maybe they’d feel more comfortable taking risks. But that’s not happening. Budge holds all the cards at the moment and she’s come out time and time again and said Craig is going nowhere, no matter how much we kick and scream. Get behind the players and try to raise the confidence from the stands would be my aim, but at the end of the day I think a lot of our squad don’t have it in them to stand up to adversity, and a change in a manger won’t change that regardless. Edited October 18, 2019 by Squirt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debut 4 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 14 minutes ago, Bridge of Djoum said: You do realize Rangers fans stood by and let the club die, yes? Even if you are correct you’ve used about the worst club as an example. Talking about different things. Talking about attitude it brings to the pitch and the people managing the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Smith's right boot said: Can we set up a counter protest. Calling all genuine fans. We can sing - We'll support you every more. Only one Sean Clare Craig Levein's barmy army. We shall not be mov.. Sorry budged? Clap our hands as we march. Stop for a twirly. Maybe even sing "Edinburgh is wonderful except for huns, hibs and boycotters". Only one Sean Clare? I will joing Thaaannnnkkkkk fuuuuuu uuu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 9 minutes ago, Lord BJ said: People have a right to protest. Hearts fans protesting is not that new or unusual, especially when results on the park are rank rotten. AB does not want to sack CL, that doesn’t mean she won’t do it. The thing that is most likely to make her change her mind isn’t results as if it was the trigger would have been pulled. It’s the realisation that the fans are lost and the impact that will have. She saw the last protest and was incredibly uncomfortable with it. Ohh and the point of the protest is clearly the removal of CL. If you don’t get that your deliberately obtuse or clearly lacking in some form of basic intelligence. Whilst it appears many other people are taking other actions to make the club aware of their distraction with current managerial stewardship these include not attending games, removal of subs and many people have even written to the club explaining the reason. You make good points. Thing is there are many who also want Budge to step down. Some of the abuse I have seen towards her is unacceptable. Are we to believe those individuals will form no part in this protest? That they will accept just the removal of CL and their goals are met? Questioning the “basic intelligence” of those who see more than one side or issue in this is ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 23 minutes ago, Debut 4 said: Even if you were right, what’s wrong with fighting for better anyway? It’s exactly what’s wrong with quite a few Hearts fans. “Ah well, we’re shite now and again anyway”. It’s a poison. Put demands on the team and club when justified. Fans CAN influence the attitude in a club, we have done before just like other clubs supporters. We slag the old firm, particularly Rangers fans , for their apparent delusions and entitlement but at least their attitude drips into the psyche of their club and you better believe they fight for it. In the end they always come good. They don’t accept pish. They might not accept pish...... but they don't accept basic accounting or VAT either. Rangers fans are what we should be looking up to...….. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 12 minutes ago, Debut 4 said: Talking about different things. Talking about attitude it brings to the pitch and the people managing the team. I see your logic but still maintain Rangers simply cannot be used as an example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 10 minutes ago, jake said: Only one Sean Clare? I will joing Thaaannnnkkkkk fuuuuuu uuu Two Sean Clares ……. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick witter Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 34 minutes ago, Squirt said: Rangers and Celtic have the money in the bank and people in the stands to ensure they meet those expectations. A privilege the rest of us don’t, nor ever will, have. The problem I personally have at the moment is any Tynecastle, whilst it used to be an intimidating venue for away teams is now the exact opposite. We are on top of our own players after 10 minutes and two loose passes and they can’t deal with it. They shit their pants and hide. Maybe getting Levein gone would change this, we’d give a new manager some slack, maybe, and in turn give the team a little more slack and maybe they’d feel more comfortable taking risks. But that’s not happening. Budge holds all the cards at the moment and she’s come out time and time again and said Craig is going nowhere, no matter how much we kick and scream. Get behind the players and try to raise the confidence from the stands would be my aim, but at the end of the day I think a lot of our squad don’t have it in them to stand up to adversity, and a change in a manger won’t change that regardless. Good post. The time is now up for Levein. Even if we win two or 3 matches there will always be another 5 or 6 match slump without a win. He cannot get consistency and that is what’s getting to the fans and transfers on to the park very quickly. A new manager would renew confidence all round I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Laff Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Debut 4 said: It’s sad. There’s a section of the support who think they are above protesting, demos...etc....if it wasn’t for the SOH folk and supporters who protestedand marched , we wouldn’t have got to the Romanov years, never mind Ann Budge. Ordinary fans are just wanting the best for the team. Football can get nasty, that’s just the way it is. People have passion some will never understand but there’s a culture growing in the support now that it’s just about accepting. Spot on 👍 some even think it’s hilarious mocking it. Imagine that attitude back in the day? We as a club like to remind others of our history, part of that history has been protesting against the harm of the club. The same is exactly what is happening just now. But it’s not okay anymore for some reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 6 minutes ago, Lord BJ said: 😂 I would imagine some people who protest will want AB removed, some who don’t, some who want CL to remain as dof do and don’t. I would imagine a multiple of different views of all manners of issues. However, you don’t need to be aligned on every single issue which the aim of the protest is to remove CL from his managerial position. The thing with protests is the uniting of a single cause and this case it’s the purpose is the removal of CL. The fact it appears I needed to explain that makes me feel more than comfortable with my original statement if not more so. Particulary as I have questioned anyone intelligence around seeing more than one side of the argument. Just the intelligence of people claim they don’t know the purpose of the protest. I agree the abuse of AB from some is unacceptable, however, I try to not judge the majority by the minority. Whilst the so called abuse of AB and CL hasn’t been nearly as bad as made out. As long as those taking part in protest obey the laws of the land Some of the abuse has been vile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFK-1 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 5 minutes ago, Lord BJ said: As long as those taking part in protest obey the laws of the land it’s all good and just expressing their Democratic right! To me that's the major problem with this kind of thing. You're likely going to get possibly low IQ individuals who think stepping over the line demonstrates their super fandom status who will compete with others of their ilk to be the most outrageous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leveins Battalion Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 I'm going!!Levein out!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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