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Ann Budge’s review of the football department

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Sir Gio
2 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

I agree he needs to go totally otherwise he could still influence others which would not be good.

 

I know lots think he has done well with the academy and youth set up etc but we have an Academy Director alreadyso would we get rid of him to make way for CL?

 

Do we really still want him on the Board influencing footballing decisions? I think not. If he is to go then it should be completely and sever all ties

Not going to happen. 

 

It can and should be staged.

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jumpship
1 hour ago, Gizmo said:


I do wonder about Austin. You don't end up where he is with NI and ourselves by chance nor being head-hunted by other clubs. Is he suggesting stuff and being constrained by Levein's tinkering and confidence-sapping safety first rigidity? Or does he agree with the tactics.

Everyone who speaks to him says he is sharp, knows his stuff and a decent bloke.1

Basically, if he was his own man (ie Levein goes back upstairs but MINUS the specific DoF role ie not involved ) could he flourish?  

If I remember right, doesn't Levein take a back seat in training, sure I've read that on a few occasions.  Levein oversees everything. 

 

Watching the game yesterday day and every time there was a misplaced pass or breakdown in play, Levein would turn to the bench with hand out like WTF... bench would just sit there hunched together... 

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Darren
1 hour ago, letsalllaughathobos said:

There is no question that she is a phenomenal business person, 

 

A absolute terrible leader of a football club, 

 

Yep.

 

You still get folk lapping up her patronising statements, though.

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Sir Gio
10 minutes ago, iainmac said:

 

I think if the former happens,  this will severely hamper the latter appointment. 

I hear you.  But it can't be allowed to happen. 

She can offer a staged dignified exit strategy on her terms or straight out sack.

His recruitment is good but the delegation and dereliction of coaching is resulting in piss poor performance 

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wavydavy
2 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

Not going to happen. 

 

It can and should be staged.

 

Are you saying as a reward for failure he should be retained as Director of the Academy or DOF and still have a position on the Board?

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jonnothejambo
1 hour ago, Gizmo said:


I do wonder about Austin. You don't end up where he is with NI and ourselves by chance nor being head-hunted by other clubs. Is he suggesting stuff and being constrained by Levein's tinkering and confidence-sapping safety first rigidity? Or does he agree with the tactics.

Everyone who speaks to him says he is sharp, knows his stuff and a decent bloke.1

Basically, if he was his own man (ie Levein goes back upstairs but MINUS the specific DoF role ie not involved ) could he flourish?  

 

I reckon that Mrs Budge's preferred option will be for Levein to concentrate on the academy and for McPhee to become the manager. 

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soonbe110
1 hour ago, OTT said:

 

Maybe, Naismith was on something like £50k a week plus Austin was offered a role with the SFA which he turned down. Apparently he lives in Edinburgh so always worth a try. I don't think international and club football are the same animal and I don't think he could expect that sort of salary in his first club role in 8 years.

However what salary he would accept is irrelevant. If indeed he is on £800k per year he has three plus years left on his contract so the compensation payment to the NIFA would be unaffordable. 

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mitch41
Just now, wavydavy said:

 

Are you saying as a reward for failure he should be retained as Director of the Academy or DOF and still have a position on the Board?

I myself would have him leave the club as a clean break because he has lost his credibility with the fans.

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soonbe110
7 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

She will listen if we continue to sell so few hospitality seats and the attendances are similar to yeterday.

Yesterday’s attendance won’t trouble her. Hosp sales might. Only 245 away fans yesterday so over 15,000 home tickets sold, folk still on holiday, festival underway so we were not that far away from usual numbers. As an example, 15,200 yesterday plus 3,500 OF fans and there’s probably only a thousand seats left. Would we have sold an extra thousand walk ups yesterday had we been playing Celtic rather than Ross County. I suspect we would. 

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Sir Gio
5 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

Are you saying as a reward for failure he should be retained as Director of the Academy or DOF and still have a position on the Board?

Hardly a reward. Booted out without cost would be my strategy.  

Why the **** would anyone want a hanging 

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Glamorgan Jambo
1 hour ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

O'Neill is in the middle of 2020 qualifying. After that, he will have a queue of Championship or even lower Premier League sides looking at him. There isn't a hope he will end up at Tynecastle.

Agreed he's on a huge contract and in the middle of qualifying so won't show up anytime soon. 

 

However for various reasons he would be in England now if any club at any level had offered him a gig. Won't happen. We're as likely a home for him in club management as anyone. 

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graygo
2 hours ago, letsalllaughathobos said:

There is no question that she is a phenomenal business person, 

 

A absolute terrible leader of a football club, 

 

Whether you like it or not a football club is a business.

 

The leaders of clubs who don't treat it as such will soon see their club disappear.

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Finlay James
2 hours ago, letsalllaughathobos said:

There is no question that she is a phenomenal business person, 

 

A absolute terrible leader of a football club, 

 

Thats just your opinion but the facts state that you couldn't be more wrong.

 

Weve never been so well ran.

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OTT
11 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

However what salary he would accept is irrelevant. If indeed he is on £800k per year he has three plus years left on his contract so the compensation payment to the NIFA would be unaffordable. 

 

Just get him to pull a Stevie Bruce :D 

 

Nah, I get where your coming from. Hearts are a great club with an engaged fan base. Budge should have no problems getting a manager that befits the stature of the club. I'm a bit worried though because the recruitment process before Levein ended up taking the job was so ridiculous. I want Levein to jump himself, because if he's pushed I don't know how tenable his position as DOF will be.

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wavydavy
18 minutes ago, jumpship said:

If I remember right, doesn't Levein take a back seat in training, sure I've read that on a few occasions.  Levein oversees everything. 

 

Watching the game yesterday day and every time there was a misplaced pass or breakdown in play, Levein would turn to the bench with hand out like WTF... bench would just sit there hunched together... 

 

I think you are correct, he did say that previously. You would think that having watched over the recent games he would be wanting to get more involved on a day to day basis to try and sort things out.

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Geoff Kilpatrick
8 minutes ago, Glamorgan Jambo said:

Agreed he's on a huge contract and in the middle of qualifying so won't show up anytime soon. 

 

However for various reasons he would be in England now if any club at any level had offered him a gig. Won't happen. We're as likely a home for him in club management as anyone. 

Keep deluding yourself. 

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soonbe110
1 minute ago, wavydavy said:

 

I think you are correct, he did say that previously. You would think that having watched over the recent games he would be wanting to get more involved on a day to day basis to try and sort things out.

He is these days. Just check it out next time they are training. 

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wavydavy
12 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

Hardly a reward. Booted out without cost would be my strategy.  

Why the **** would anyone want a hanging 

 

You confused me by saying this in your previous post.

 

 Quote:  It can and should be staged.

 

I took that to mean you wanted him relieved of his position as Manager but retained in another capacity

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wavydavy
3 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

He is these days. Just check it out next time they are training. 

 

So if he is then that's even worse.

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soonbe110
8 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

Just get him to pull a Stevie Bruce :D 

 

Nah, I get where your coming from. Hearts are a great club with an engaged fan base. Budge should have no problems getting a manager that befits the stature of the club. I'm a bit worried though because the recruitment process before Levein ended up taking the job was so ridiculous. I want Levein to jump himself, because if he's pushed I don't know how tenable his position as DOF will be.

Agreed 

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wavydavy
18 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Yesterday’s attendance won’t trouble her. Hosp sales might. Only 245 away fans yesterday so over 15,000 home tickets sold, folk still on holiday, festival underway so we were not that far away from usual numbers. As an example, 15,200 yesterday plus 3,500 OF fans and there’s probably only a thousand seats left. Would we have sold an extra thousand walk ups yesterday had we been playing Celtic rather than Ross County. I suspect we would. 

 

You have to take into account that this was out first home league game of the season with a new signing on display so you would have thought that higher numbers might have turned up.

 

Keep playing the way we are and the hospitality and walk up will dry up.

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Longshanks

Shaping up to be yet another wasted season.  How many 5 year and 3 year plans have we had? 

 

The football side of the club is a shitshow right now and has been for years, we have never in my lifetime had a better off field performance which makes it all the more disappointing.  Change is needed but I just can't see it being a big enough change, levein back up stairs and Daly (or someone from the bootroom) as manager is what I fear we will get. 

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wavydavy
24 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

I myself would have him leave the club as a clean break because he has lost his credibility with the fans.

 

I agree.

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Sir Gio
2 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

You confused me by saying this in your previous post.

 

 Quote:  It can and should be staged.

 

I took that to mean you wanted him relieved of his position as Manager but retained in another capacity

Staged. Out in 2 stages. Continuity preserved dignity preserved we move on. 

Unless you find it necessary to humiliate someone who no matter what we may think as a coach, has pushed himself to the limit for the club 

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Gizmo
1 hour ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

 

Murrayfield  and Hampden last season were the biggest games of Leveins management career, Hearts lost 

 

I don't think that's the stick with which to hit Levein given Celtic win everything. Not being competitive at home to Ross County definitely is.
 

23 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

Are you saying as a reward for failure he should be retained as Director of the Academy or DOF and still have a position on the Board?


Not everything he has done for us has been a failure. It's good business sense to keep people where they make a difference. 

Most of the structure is sound but the scouting and coaching teams need refreshed, clearly. I'd take that opportunity to refresh the coaching team where necessary and that would include no longer retaining the DoF role. If that left a place for Levein, fine but we need to ensure some freedom for the next manager/coach and allow them to bring in their key men if needed - as that partnership is often what delivers success.  

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soonbe110
1 minute ago, wavydavy said:

 

You have to take into account that this was out first home league game of the season with a new signing on display so you would have thought that higher numbers might have turned up.

 

Keep playing the way we are and the hospitality and walk up will dry up.

Check out previous years opening home game attendances, excluding OF, and you will find they are not that great compared to winter matches. We couldn’t even sell out home seats in 98/99 against Rangers three months after winning the cup. People do go on holiday in August. Edinburgh folk also attend festival/fringe events. Some things never change. 

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wavydavy
1 minute ago, Gizmo said:

 

I don't think that's the stick with which to hit Levein given Celtic win everything. Not being competitive at home to Ross County definitely is.
 


Not everything he has done for us has been a failure. It's good business sense to keep people where they make a difference. 

Most of the structure is sound but the scouting and coaching teams need refreshed, clearly. I'd take that opportunity to refresh the coaching team where necessary and that would include no longer retaining the DoF role. If that left a place for Levein, fine but we need to ensure some freedom for the next manager/coach and allow them to bring in their key men if needed - as that partnership is often what delivers success.  

 

 

I never said that everything he has done has been a failure. My point was answering or questioniong another post.

 

So you are advocating possibly keeping the man who is in charge of the the areas you say need refreshed? If they need refreshed surely that means this has escaped the attention of CL or he would have already done it?

 

If the model is sound then it could be operated by anyone. I think if CL were to remain within the club if he were relieved of the Manager's role then he would restrict the possible recruitment of a decent replacement.

 

Also remember his model included a progession of Coaches from within so would you be happy with Daly, Fox or Mcphee as the Manager?

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wavydavy
7 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Check out previous years opening home game attendances, excluding OF, and you will find they are not that great compared to winter matches. We couldn’t even sell out home seats in 98/99 against Rangers three months after winning the cup. People do go on holiday in August. Edinburgh folk also attend festival/fringe events. Some things never change. 

 

I'll take your word for previous attendances but it will be interesting to see how they go in the coming weeks.

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All roads lead to Gorgie
7 minutes ago, Longshanks said:

Shaping up to be yet another wasted season.  How many 5 year and 3 year plans have we had? 

 

The football side of the club is a shitshow right now and has been for years, we have never in my lifetime had a better off field performance which makes it all the more disappointing.  Change is needed but I just can't see it being a big enough change, levein back up stairs and Daly (or someone from the bootroom) as manager is what I fear we will get. 

The unrest within the support would continue if anyone from the boot room took over unless there is a massive improvement from the off. A clean slate is needed to bring everyone back together and an attack minded coaching team is a must to see the huge potential that is there to see become a reality. 

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McCrae

Don’t think there is a chance of any game until after the Hamilton game.

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weegie jambo
20 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

I think you are correct, he did say that previously. You would think that having watched over the recent games he would be wanting to get more involved on a day to day basis to try and sort things out.

That is even more worrying if he is the main man yet delegating responsibility for tactics to others. If that's the case then have some pride and respect for the club you love and get the job done.

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A_A wehatethehibs
17 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

 

I don't think that's the stick with which to hit Levein given Celtic win everything. Not being competitive at home to Ross County definitely is.
 


Not everything he has done for us has been a failure. It's good business sense to keep people where they make a difference. 

Most of the structure is sound but the scouting and coaching teams need refreshed, clearly. I'd take that opportunity to refresh the coaching team where necessary and that would include no longer retaining the DoF role. If that left a place for Levein, fine but we need to ensure some freedom for the next manager/coach and allow them to bring in their key men if needed - as that partnership is often what delivers success.  

 

Not beating him with any particular stick, the poster said Motherwell away is the biggest game of his management career. It isn’t, it’s just a last 16 league cup tie. Last year there were much much bigger games  - loss was the result. 

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soonbe110
17 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

I'll take your word for previous attendances but it will be interesting to see how they go in the coming weeks.

I agree things need to improve or walk-ups and hospitality will suffer 

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EIEIO
31 minutes ago, Longshanks said:

Shaping up to be yet another wasted season.  How many 5 year and 3 year plans have we had? 

 

The football side of the club is a shitshow right now and has been for years, we have never in my lifetime had a better off field performance which makes it all the more disappointing.  Change is needed but I just can't see it being a big enough change, levein back up stairs and Daly (or someone from the bootroom) as manager is what I fear we will get. 

A sobering prospect, Daly picked the team for a couple of games before Levein's appointment and we played the same turgid football we play now.

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Selkirkhmfc1874
1 hour ago, wavydavy said:

 

And if the footballing side is not addressed soon then the business side to start to slide also.

There's absolutely no doubt about that 

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Glamorgan Jambo
50 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Keep deluding yourself. 

I'm not the one that's deluded about Michael O'Neil's chances of a managerial job in England. 

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Geoff Kilpatrick
5 minutes ago, Glamorgan Jambo said:

I'm not the one that's deluded about Michael O'Neil's chances of a managerial job in England. 

We'll see but if nothing did appear on that front an annual £750K from the IFA will remain in place.

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iainmac
1 hour ago, Sir Gio said:

I hear you.  But it can't be allowed to happen. 

She can offer a staged dignified exit strategy on her terms or straight out sack.

His recruitment is good but the delegation and dereliction of coaching is resulting in piss poor performance 

 

Maybe this season but too many duds were brought in previously on his watch. 

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Boab
1 hour ago, soonbe110 said:

Yesterday’s attendance won’t trouble her. Hosp sales might. Only 245 away fans yesterday so over 15,000 home tickets sold, folk still on holiday, festival underway so we were not that far away from usual numbers. As an example, 15,200 yesterday plus 3,500 OF fans and there’s probably only a thousand seats left. Would we have sold an extra thousand walk ups yesterday had we been playing Celtic rather than Ross County. I suspect we would. 

 I’m sure there is an argument to say there maybe would have been more walk ups had the prices been lower. This can’t be dismissed. There must have been many people who declined to pay 30 odd quid for a game against Ross County. This was before the abject display !

 

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wavydavy
1 hour ago, Sir Gio said:

Staged. Out in 2 stages. Continuity preserved dignity preserved we move on. 

Unless you find it necessary to humiliate someone who no matter what we may think as a coach, has pushed himself to the limit for the club 

 

He might see being removed as Manager as humiliating.

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wavydavy
7 minutes ago, Boab said:

 I’m sure there is an argument to say there maybe would have been more walk ups had the prices been lower. This can’t be dismissed. There must have been many people who declined to pay 30 odd quid for a game against Ross County. This was before the abject display !

 

 

You are correct as I read a number of people on here saying they were not going because of the cost.

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Weakened Offender
3 hours ago, letsalllaughathobos said:

There is no question that she is a phenomenal business person, 

 

A absolute terrible leader of a football club, 

 

What an incredibly stupid post. 

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Gambo
1 hour ago, Sir Gio said:

Staged. Out in 2 stages. Continuity preserved dignity preserved we move on. 

Unless you find it necessary to humiliate someone who no matter what we may think as a coach, has pushed himself to the limit for the club 

I want what's best for our club, not what's best for Craig Levein.

 

He has failed, he should be shown the door, it is that simple in football.

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Sir Gio
12 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

He might see being removed as Manager as humiliating.

If he does,  2 for price of one,  if not he still has a job. For now. 

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Sir Gio
1 minute ago, Gambo said:

I want what's best for our club, not what's best for Craig Levein.

 

He has failed, he should be shown the door, it is that simple in football.

However, he has 2 jobs. So it really isn't simple. Employment law still exists in football like it or not 

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McCrae
3 minutes ago, Gambo said:

I want what's best for our club, not what's best for Craig Levein.

 

He has failed, he should be shown the door, it is that simple in football.

 

Whilst I am not Happy, I don’t think you can say he has failed this season. I don’t think Budge will do anything until after the window closes and we can played a couple of games.  Our league for could turn around quickly and AB will give him time.

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annushorribilis III
3 hours ago, Jamboelite said:

 

She has already said the football side is getting overhauled i dont doubt for a second she will be watching on and not thinking something has to change soon.

 

 

I'd suggest  that is NOT what she said - she said the football dept is "now"being reviewed. I took that as  an admission that she'd been busy elsewhere to date (no doubt occupied by the state of the main stand). She put CL on a 3 year deal because that would see her through to 2020 and we all know what happens , potentially, to AB next year. IMO she will complete the review this season , she won't sack CL under any circumstances (OK, maybe if we're looking at relegation) . And then we're faced with the bizarre situation of CL being out of contract having completed a review of "the football dept" - so who has to implement it ? Does CL get another deal (does he want it ?) or does AB expect his successor to implement it  (and is that realistic ?).  Maybe if she has aspirations to stay on next year she might feel she has to bin CL - but she's still got the problem that the coaches have proved they can't make a difference either. Right now, she's between a rock and a hard place and must be praying CL can at least do enough to get the fans of his back. 

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Boab
2 minutes ago, McCrae said:

 

Whilst I am not Happy, I don’t think you can say he has failed this season. I don’t think Budge will do anything until after the window closes and we can played a couple of games.  Our league for could turn around quickly and AB will give him time.

 The problem with this is, a LC exit and a roasting from the hooped demons, and the Hamilton attendance will be low. She won’t give him time if we’re losing a fair bit of cash !

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mitch41

Let's hope when Ann says the football side is going to be overhauled it means Levein & co are leaving the club. We the fans have had enough of Levein and his staff.

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dazinho88
7 minutes ago, McCrae said:

 

Whilst I am not Happy, I don’t think you can say he has failed this season. I don’t think Budge will do anything until after the window closes and we can played a couple of games.  Our league for could turn around quickly and AB will give him time.

 

Agree to a certain extent. 

 

You can't say he has failed this season but you can certainly suggest there is no sign of improvement. The league has been a failed objective last two seasons and we don't look like we've made any clear progress to suggest we will be a top 4 side come May. 

 

League Cup performances against poor opposition were dreadful in the main, barring a 10-15 minute spell we have also been poor in the league. That is six matches, mostly against weaker sides (on paper) that show no sign of change/progress. I think it should signal a change now.

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