VAR

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

9 minutes ago, TexasAndy said:

Football is not a stop start game like Rugby and American Football.   VAR will kill the game as a spectator sport if they don't speed up the decision process.  

In a nutshell.

[hughesie27]

26 minutes ago, TexasAndy said:

Not once in the retaken analysis was a still shot shown the moment the player struck the ball.  The still camera pics show that keepers foot was still touching the line.  

I watched a replay from the camera at the bar and you can see the keeper left the line before it was struck.

[Nookie Bear]

5 hours ago, ri Alban said:

VAR seems to have been a godsend to the WWC. Otherwise, people would be talking about how shite they are at football.

 

The football has been generally good.

 

And at least it has stopped this nonsense that Shelley Kerr could be the next Hearts Head Coach

[Maroon Sailor]

29 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

The football has been generally good.

 

And at least it has stopped this nonsense that Shelley Kerr could be the next Hearts Head Coach

 

Shelley Kerr got it badly wrong in all 3 matches imo.

 

That Scotland team should have got out of that group.

 

O.K the Germans would have knocked them out next match but Kerr needs to analyse her own performance more than her players efforts.

[Maroon Sailor]

1 hour ago, hughesie27 said:

I watched a replay from the camera at the bar and you can see the keeper left the line before it was struck.

 

What we talking about here ? Centimetres

 

VAR is anal and ruining the game.

[Phil Dunphy]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2019/jun/21/uruguay-made-to-wait-despite-var-fuelled-copa-america-fightback-against-japan

 

There’s another decision it got wrong. 

[gorgie rd eh11]

41 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

The football has been generally good.

 

And at least it has stopped this nonsense that Shelley Kerr could be the next Hearts Head Coach

 

 

 You're not allowed to point out the nonsense of that opinion.

 

 It makes you a sexist, misogynistic, dinosaur if you think Shelley Kerr would be a s***e appointment as Hearts manager.

[John Findlay]

15 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2019/jun/21/uruguay-made-to-wait-despite-var-fuelled-copa-america-fightback-against-japan

 

There’s another decision it got wrong. 

So the Japanese finally got into the Americas. They didn't have to bomb anywhere ?

[Scnorthedinburgh]

3 hours ago, Jammy T said:

 

Sorry, but it IS also used for:

 

offside

forward pass

obstruction

general foul play

 

And the TMO ref can interrupt the ref to highlight something he has missed. The rules of rugby are more complex and there are more players on the pitch.

 

It is correct to say the majority of TMO decisions relate to whether it is a try, but ‘whether it is a try’ is nearly always about something other than ‘did he ground the ball?’

 

The reason it works IMO is that - it has had time to bed in; the TMO refs know their stuff and (apart from de minimis examples) appear to be entirely unbiased (and the ref is miked up and people know what the review is for); the clock is stopped whilst the review goes on; the time taken is generally under 90 seconds or so and the incident in question is played in stadium so the crowd knows what is going on.

 

Nothing that can’t be done in football.

Agree, as it's a football forum I went for a general post on TMO in rugby.

It took time to bed in, there was a period when the ref went to TMO on almost every score and asked is there any reason I can't give the try. That lead to a period of long stops in games.

VAR will settle in, and they need to communicate with the crowd what is being checked.

[hughesie27]

1 hour ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

What we talking about here ? Centimetres

 

VAR is anal and ruining the game.

Do centimetres count when a goal is involved? 

What about a tackle inside or outside the box?

 

You either want the rules fairly applied or you don't. "RUININGG THA GAAMMME"

[ArcticJambo]

1 hour ago, Phil Dunphy said:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2019/jun/21/uruguay-made-to-wait-despite-var-fuelled-copa-america-fightback-against-japan

 

There’s another decision it got wrong. 

Japanese lad does a 180 degree pirouette (not sure how else to describe the move - we've all done them, where you're essentially dragging the ball by standing on top of it with both feet one after the other at speed) totally flummoxing the defender who sticks out his leg and brings him down.  Totally did him.  Ref didn't give it but went to VAR and they KO'd it too; think had they scored the pen it would have made it 3-1 a that point.  No way were the Japanese going to be allowed to win this one if the authorities had any opportunity.

 

Uruguay's VAR pen was debatable too ... Defender and Cavani go into a 50/50 through ball in teh box.  Defender puts put up to block or get a touch, EC tries to kick at it towards goal and catches defender's boot.  Pen!!

 

Irrespective it was a great game I must say.  Watched 4 games so far and they've al been pretty good; night ^ day compared to WWC

[gorgie rd eh11]

26 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

Do centimetres count when a goal is involved? 

What about a tackle inside or outside the box?

 

You either want the rules fairly applied or you don't. "RUININGG THA GAAMMME"

 

 

 Exactly, it's not perfect but it is a step forward in ensuring correct decisions are made.

 

  If we can get rid of the ridiculous "referees discretion" nonsense and just apply the rules then that will be another step forward.

[Phil Dunphy]

42 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

Do centimetres count when a goal is involved? 

What about a tackle inside or outside the box?

 

You either want the rules fairly applied or you don't. "RUININGG THA GAAMMME"

 

Do think referees should carry a measuring tape so they can accurately mark out ten yards for every free kick?

 

What should be done to ensure throw ins are taken at the exact point the ball went out of play?

 

I assume you’re in favour of VAR being used to decide which way every throw in should go, to decide every corner/goal kick, to decide which side a corner should be taken from, to determine if a throw in is taken correctly? Because if you’re not, your point is invalid. 

 

 

10 minutes ago, gorgie rd eh11 said:

 

 

 Exactly, it's not perfect but it is a step forward in ensuring correct decisions are made.

 

  If we can get rid of the ridiculous "referees discretion" nonsense and just apply the rules then that will be another step forward.

 

By your own logic, any form of contact should now be deemed a foul, because discretion shouldn’t be used to determine if it’s a foul or not. 

[Central Belt 1874]

43 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

Do think referees should carry a measuring tape so they can accurately mark out ten yards for every free kick?

 

What should be done to ensure throw ins are taken at the exact point the ball went out of play?

 

I assume you’re in favour of VAR being used to decide which way every throw in should go, to decide every corner/goal kick, to decide which side a corner should be taken from, to determine if a throw in is taken correctly? Because if you’re not, your point is invalid. 

 

 

 

By your own logic, any form of contact should now be deemed a foul, because discretion shouldn’t be used to determine if it’s a foul or not. 

 

 

Spot on. It's either fully implemented and the need for a referee is removed or we dump it. 

 

The idea of people sitting in a studio picking and choosing when and where a decision should be looked at is unbelievably ridiculous. 

 

The debate here isint about if VAR is getting decisions 'right' or not. Which some people on this thread cant seem to comprehend.

[hughesie27]

48 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

Do think referees should carry a measuring tape so they can accurately mark out ten yards for every free kick?

 

What should be done to ensure throw ins are taken at the exact point the ball went out of play?

 

I assume you’re in favour of VAR being used to decide which way every throw in should go, to decide every corner/goal kick, to decide which side a corner should be taken from, to determine if a throw in is taken correctly? Because if you’re not, your point is invalid. 

 

 

 

By your own logic, any form of contact should now be deemed a foul, because discretion shouldn’t be used to determine if it’s a foul or not. 

The ref should be able to make sure throw ins are taken correctly and in the right spot. Additionally they should be able to mark out 10 yards. 

 

I'd actually be happy for it to be used if a corner/goal kick is incorrectly given. That scuppers a decent attacking phase. These decisions shouldn't require the ref to have a look though. Like the penalty retake they should just be made in the VAR room. 

 

VAR, like most rules will adapt and develop as we learn from it. It has undeniably ensured that the right calls have been made in the majority of cases that it has been used.

 

[gorgie rd eh11]

47 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

Do think referees should carry a measuring tape so they can accurately mark out ten yards for every free kick?

 

What should be done to ensure throw ins are taken at the exact point the ball went out of play?

 

I assume you’re in favour of VAR being used to decide which way every throw in should go, to decide every corner/goal kick, to decide which side a corner should be taken from, to determine if a throw in is taken correctly? Because if you’re not, your point is invalid. 

 

 

 

By your own logic, any form of contact should now be deemed a foul, because discretion shouldn’t be used to determine if it’s a foul or not. 

 

I'm in favour of correct and consistent decisions being made anything that helps that is good.

 

 

 

[Phil Dunphy]

29 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

The ref should be able to make sure throw ins are taken correctly and in the right spot. Additionally they should be able to mark out 10 yards. 

 

I'd actually be happy for it to be used if a corner/goal kick is incorrectly given. That scuppers a decent attacking phase. These decisions shouldn't require the ref to have a look though. Like the penalty retake they should just be made in the VAR room. 

 

VAR, like most rules will adapt and develop as we learn from it. It has undeniably ensured that the right calls have been made in the majority of cases that it has been used.

 

 

It’s all or nothing Hughesie. Either it’s used to scrutinise every decision or it’s not fair. You see goals scored from incorrect throw ins. So VAR should be used to make sure everything is fair. 

 

Otherwise there’s no point. 

 

So how does a referee determine the exact point a throw in should be taken from? Or just a wall is exactly ten yards from the ball?

 

Either way, the debate isn’t about getting decisions right. It’s about the manner it’s being handled. Taking nearly ten minutes to conclude a situation that would normally take two or three isn’t in the spirit of the game. 

 

Where do you draw the line on where it’s needed?

Edited June 21, 2019 by Phil Dunphy

[Phil Dunphy]

24 minutes ago, gorgie rd eh11 said:

 

I'm in favour of correct and consistent decisions being made anything that helps that is good.

 

 

 

 

So which is it? 

 

A referee using their their discretion to decide what is and what isn’t a foul, or no discretion at all?

 

Because you’ve just said there shouldn’t be any discretion allowed. 

[gorgie rd eh11]

 

 

 I want the referee to apply the rules. Not to use his discretion when it's an old firm game or Scott Browns involved to apply different rules. 

 

 Referees should apply rules.

[Maroon Sailor]

3 hours ago, hughesie27 said:

Do centimetres count when a goal is involved? 

What about a tackle inside or outside the box?

 

You either want the rules fairly applied or you don't. "RUININGG THA GAAMMME"

 

Like I said - VAR is anal.

 

No need for an onfield ref now. Just let them pedants up in a studio get their thousand looks to see if an offence is caused by the tiniest of margins.

 

 

[hughesie27]

1 hour ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

It’s all or nothing Hughesie. Either it’s used to scrutinise every decision or it’s not fair. You see goals scored from incorrect throw ins. So VAR should be used to make sure everything is fair. 

 

Otherwise there’s no point. 

 

So how does a referee determine the exact point a throw in should be taken from? Or just a wall is exactly ten yards from the ball?

 

Either way, the debate isn’t about getting decisions right. It’s about the manner it’s being handled. Taking nearly ten minutes to conclude a situation that would normally take two or three isn’t in the spirit of the game. 

 

Where do you draw the line on where it’s needed?

I disagree. It doesn't have to be all or nothing at all. The instances like incorrectly taken throw-ins typically don't lead to goals. You don't 'see it' in the same terms that you see penalties or handballs going unpunished. I'd even go as far to say that if a team concedes after minor advantage from a few yards stolen at a throw-in then the defence is likely at fault for still not dealing with it in most cases! (That's not an argument for VAR but rather an example of how often throw-ins lead to clear cut chances on goal. Incorrectly taken throw-ins aren't spoiling the game. Players diving is though and VAR helps right those wrongs. 

[Phil Dunphy]

32 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

I disagree. It doesn't have to be all or nothing at all. The instances like incorrectly taken throw-ins typically don't lead to goals. You don't 'see it' in the same terms that you see penalties or handballs going unpunished. I'd even go as far to say that if a team concedes after minor advantage from a few yards stolen at a throw-in then the defence is likely at fault for still not dealing with it in most cases! (That's not an argument for VAR but rather an example of how often throw-ins lead to clear cut chances on goal. Incorrectly taken throw-ins aren't spoiling the game. Players diving is though and VAR helps right those wrongs. 

 

You still see it. You say wrong decisions ruin the game, so why would these wrong decisions be any different? Whether a defence is at fault for not defending the situation better, the goal has still come from an incorrect decision. Should every corner be scrutinised to see whether the defender actually had the last touch?

 

Surely if the game is to be completely fair, every decision should be looked at as the butterfly effect is very real in football.

[Phil Dunphy]

1 hour ago, gorgie rd eh11 said:

 

 

 I want the referee to apply the rules. Not to use his discretion when it's an old firm game or Scott Browns involved to apply different rules. 

 

 Referees should apply rules.

 

You've said you want "referees discretion" to be removed. I trust you understand that all the laws of the game are open to interpretation and taking away the ability of a referee to make a judgement call means all forms of contact would be outlawed, because no-one would be allowed to determine whether or not a foul has been committed.

 

Every single handball would result in a free kick/penalty because the referee wouldn't be able to determine whether or not it was intentional. All free kicks would result in bookings, because no-one would be able to use discretion to decide whether or not a serious foul had occurred.

 

Removing the ability for a referee to make a judgement call is a ludicrous thing to want.

[hughesie27]

35 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

You still see it. You say wrong decisions ruin the game, so why would these wrong decisions be any different? Whether a defence is at fault for not defending the situation better, the goal has still come from an incorrect decision. Should every corner be scrutinised to see whether the defender actually had the last touch?

 

Surely if the game is to be completely fair, every decision should be looked at as the butterfly effect is very real in football.

I've already said, No. Every decision does not need to be scrutinised. Key events change games. Penalties etc on a regular basis which then have a big impact on the result. Typically a throw in doesn't. I can't think of the last time I seen an incorrect throw in lead to a goal.

[Bellion]

4 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

I've already said, No. Every decision does not need to be scrutinised. Key events change games. Penalties etc on a regular basis which then have a big impact on the result. Typically a throw in doesn't. I can't think of the last time I seen an incorrect throw in lead to a goal.

What about goal from a corner that’s given when it should be a goal kick? That happens. Happened to Spurs a few months ago. Do we involve VAR there? 

[Bellion]

And Poch got all upset: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47262464

 

Terrible when these wrongs aren’t righted. So is that just bad luck, but if it was a penalty decision, it can be reviewed? And if the corner can be reviewed, why not a throw in? See where this is going?

 

 

[Maroon Sailor]

What about corners being taken when the ball is out the quadrant and a goal is scored from it ?

[hughesie27]

12 minutes ago, Bellion said:

What about goal from a corner that’s given when it should be a goal kick? That happens. Happened to Spurs a few months ago. Do we involve VAR there? 

I've already said I'd accept it for Corner disputes. It would probably not even need to be viewed by the on pitch ref, as per the Keeper/Penalty scenario in the Scotland game.

[hughesie27]

3 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

What about corners being taken when the ball is out the quadrant and a goal is scored from it ?

50% of the time the linesman is there. The other 50 the ref should make sure.

[Maroon Sailor]

5 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

50% of the time the linesman is there. The other 50 the ref should make sure.

 

Why bother ?

 

VAR should be able to sort that out. I mean that ball being a millimetre outside the quadrant could make all the difference as to whether a goal was scored or not.

[Bellion]

7 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

I've already said I'd accept it for Corner disputes. It would probably not even need to be viewed by the on pitch ref, as per the Keeper/Penalty scenario in the Scotland game.

Why a corner and not a throw in? Some teams are dangerous from long throws. 

[Maroon Sailor]

The genie came out the bottle with goal line technology but it didn't have to.

 

That is the best technology thing to happen in football and it escapes controversy.

 

I don't know one person who doesn't like goal line technology. The stuff VAR are looking at is just ridiculous

 

 

 

[ArcticJambo]

25 minutes ago, Bellion said:

What about goal from a corner that’s given when it should be a goal kick? That happens. Happened to Spurs a few months ago. Do we involve VAR there? 

US scored a goal from a corner incorrectly given in their second group game I do believe; they even discussed it at the time with replays live, and then again at the break.  But no, VAR made no interventions as I don't think it's in their remit.

[Nookie Bear]

3 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

The genie came out the bottle with goal line technology but it didn't have to.

 

That is the best technology thing to happen in football and it escapes controversy.

 

I don't know one person who doesn't like goal line technology. The stuff VAR are looking at is just ridiculous

 

 

 

 

That, plus cans of shaving foam 

[gorgie rd eh11]

1 hour ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

You've said you want "referees discretion" to be removed. I trust you understand that all the laws of the game are open to interpretation and taking away the ability of a referee to make a judgement call means all forms of contact would be outlawed, because no-one would be allowed to determine whether or not a foul has been committed.

 

Every single handball would result in a free kick/penalty because the referee wouldn't be able to determine whether or not it was intentional. All free kicks would result in bookings, because no-one would be able to use discretion to decide whether or not a serious foul had occurred.

 

Removing the ability for a referee to make a judgement call is a ludicrous thing to want.

 

 

 J***s.

 

 Apply the rules, apply them consistently. VAR got the decisions in the Scotland Argentina game right. Is that a bad thing?

 

 "Referees discretion" usually amounts to the big team gets the decision the wee team doesn't. Is that a good thing?

 

 I struggle with the idea that trying to improve decision making, making it more black and white, allowing people to understand why decisions were made is a bad thing.  Some people obviously prefer the random method of "sometimes they're given. Usually Celtic/Barcelona/Man. utd etc. fans.

[Phil Dunphy]

1 hour ago, hughesie27 said:

I've already said, No. Every decision does not need to be scrutinised. Key events change games. Penalties etc on a regular basis which then have a big impact on the result. Typically a throw in doesn't. I can't think of the last time I seen an incorrect throw in lead to a goal.

 

So, in the interest of fairness, VAR should only be used to look at some incorrect decisions, but others can just be ignored?

 

Doesn't seem like a fair system.

 

45 minutes ago, gorgie rd eh11 said:

 

 

 J***s.

 

 Apply the rules, apply them consistently. VAR got the decisions in the Scotland Argentina game right. Is that a bad thing?

 

 "Referees discretion" usually amounts to the big team gets the decision the wee team doesn't. Is that a good thing?

 

 I struggle with the idea that trying to improve decision making, making it more black and white, allowing people to understand why decisions were made is a bad thing.  Some people obviously prefer the random method of "sometimes they're given. Usually Celtic/Barcelona/Man. utd etc. fans.

 

No-one's saying the rules shouldn't be followed.

 

What you've said is for referees to have no discretion. Which is absolutely ridiculous. Referees HAVE to have some kind of discretion to decide what is and isn't a foul. It's not as simple as saying the big teams will stop getting al the decisions. The game will descend into absolute farce if there's no discretion to decide what is and isn't a foul.

 

Or you rewrite every single law of the game and include detailed descriptions of every possible scenario in which a free kick/penalty can be awarded. If you take away any referees judgement, you're going to see thousands of fouls per game. It's ****ing ridiculous anyone can think referees shouldn't have any discretion.

 

Absolutely bonkers.

[Maroon Sailor]

This VAR shit was brought in for clear and obvious errors by the match officials not to dig down meticulously for every nook and cranny of the rule book.

[gorgie rd eh11]

5 hours ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

So, in the interest of fairness, VAR should only be used to look at some incorrect decisions, but others can just be ignored?

 

Doesn't seem like a fair system.

 

 

No-one's saying the rules shouldn't be followed.

 

What you've said is for referees to have no discretion. Which is absolutely ridiculous. Referees HAVE to have some kind of discretion to decide what is and isn't a foul. It's not as simple as saying the big teams will stop getting al the decisions. The game will descend into absolute farce if there's no discretion to decide what is and isn't a foul.

 

Or you rewrite every single law of the game and include detailed descriptions of every possible scenario in which a free kick/penalty can be awarded. If you take away any referees judgement, you're going to see thousands of fouls per game. It's ****ing ridiculous anyone can think referees shouldn't have any discretion.

 

Absolutely bonkers.

 

 

 I give up. Who gives a **** about the rules as long as Willie Collum can interpret them.

Edited June 21, 2019 by gorgie rd eh11

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

55 minutes ago, gorgie rd eh11 said:

 

 

 I give up. Who gives a **** about the rules as long as Willie Collum can interpret them.

But that's your fallacy. Willie Collum, with VAR, will still be interpreting the rules as Willie Collum.

[jamtartan74]

I thought I would be all for VAR but after watching how it slows the game down and the inconsistency in the decision making its becoming a bit farcical imo. The Scotland game the other night, although VAR showed the correct decisions were made at the the time, it took an infinity for them to give the call, but why no added time to compensate for it? 

 

I say just leave it as it is now, I would introduce goal line technology in Scotland but phuck VAR, too many grey areas with it. 

Edited June 22, 2019 by jamtartan74

[benny]

2 hours ago, jamtartan74 said:

I thought I would be all for VAR but after watching how it slows the game down and the inconsistency in the decision making its becoming a bit farcical imo. The Scotland game the other night, although VAR showed the correct decisions were made at the the time, it took an infinity for them to give the call, but why no added time to compensate for it? 

 

I say just leave it as it is now, I would introduce goal line technology in Scotland but phuck VAR, too many grey areas with it. 

Cannot see anything happening in Scotland due to cost.

[shaun.lawson]

4 hours ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

But that's your fallacy. Willie Collum, with VAR, will still be interpreting the rules as Willie Collum.

 

Precisely. The ref has the final say. We saw that the other day, as that idiot from North Korea blew up for full time with about 10 minutes left to play.

 

Other than it taking wayyyy too long (what's the betting US networks spot that and it becomes a fixture, so they can go to ad breaks?), VAR hasn't been the problem here. Nor - North Korean idiot excepted - have the refs for the most part. The problem is the (very recently rewritten) laws themselves.

 

- The handball law is a joke

 

- The offside law is a joke

 

- The keeper staying on (not even behind - but on) the line law is a joke

 

All three of these joke laws pay no heed whatsoever to common sense or how football is even played. No-one with half a clue thinks what's being given as handball is handball; or that an offside attacker a couple of yards or less from a defender isn't interfering with play; or that it's even possible for a goalkeeper to save a penalty without diving forwards as well as sideways. That last law is in wilful ignorance of gravity itself. 

 

Then there's the bookings too. Yellow card for being hit somewhere on the arm by a football a split second after it's kicked. Yellow card for goalkeeper affected by basic laws of gravity. It's just unbelievable.

 

It's these joke laws which are leading to so much intervention from VAR, so many interminable stoppages, so much confusion among players, managers, commentators, and the watching world. FIFA are probably loving it. It's football as the worst, cruellest reality TV show: roll up, roll up, which poor sucker's next to get it in the neck? Find out after the latest 5 minute delay while the officials try to figure out their arses from their elbows.

 

Referees, meanwhile, find themselves effectively under pressure from VAR to enforce these idiotic beyond belief laws - but as they have the final say, you'll still get inconsistency all over the place. Example: offside goals allowed for Australia v Brazil and USA v Sweden yet disallowed for Chile v USA. One goal - which in the final analysis, eliminated Chile. 

 

Into the knockout stages we go now, and on this nonsense will continue. Destroying dreams, so much hard work, so much sacrifice. All in a day's work for the showers that be at FIFA and on the International Board.

 

This shit will destroy the game if it's allowed to carry on. Not VAR; the laws themselves.

Edited June 22, 2019 by shaun.lawson

[Phil Dunphy]

9 hours ago, gorgie rd eh11 said:

 

 

 I give up. Who gives a **** about the rules as long as Willie Collum can interpret them.

 

You just don't get it.

 

It's like trying to teach basic arithmetic to a monkey.

[Maroon Sailor]

4 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Precisely. The ref has the final say. We saw that the other day, as that idiot from North Korea blew up for full time with about 10 minutes left to play.

 

Other than it taking wayyyy too long (what's the betting US networks spot that and it becomes a fixture, so they can go to ad breaks?), VAR hasn't been the problem here. Nor - North Korean idiot excepted - have the refs for the most part. The problem is the (very recently rewritten) laws themselves.

 

- The handball law is a joke

 

- The offside law is a joke

 

- The keeper staying on (not even behind - but on) the line law is a joke

 

All three of these joke laws pay no heed whatsoever to common sense or how football is even played. No-one with half a clue thinks what's being given as handball is handball; or that an offside attacker a couple of yards or less from a defender isn't interfering with play; or that it's even possible for a goalkeeper to save a penalty without diving forwards as well as sideways. That last law is in wilful ignorance of gravity itself. 

 

Then there's the bookings too. Yellow card for being hit somewhere on the arm by a football a split second after it's kicked. Yellow card for goalkeeper affected by basic laws of gravity. It's just unbelievable.

 

It's these joke laws which are leading to so much intervention from VAR, so many interminable stoppages, so much confusion among players, managers, commentators, and the watching world. FIFA are probably loving it. It's football as the worst, cruellest reality TV show: roll up, roll up, which poor sucker's next to get it in the neck? Find out after the latest 5 minute delay while the officials try to figure out their arses from their elbows.

 

Referees, meanwhile, find themselves effectively under pressure from VAR to enforce these idiotic beyond belief laws - but as they have the final say, you'll still get inconsistency all over the place. Example: offside goals allowed for Australia v Brazil and USA v Sweden yet disallowed for Chile v USA. One goal - which in the final analysis, eliminated Chile. 

 

Into the knockout stages we go now, and on this nonsense will continue. Destroying dreams, so much hard work, so much sacrifice. All in a day's work for the showers that be at FIFA and on the International Board.

 

This shit will destroy the game if it's allowed to carry on. Not VAR; the laws themselves.

 

VAR is the problem as it has the ability to apply the letter of the law.

 

These laws in football have to be in place (you have to have some kind of definitive) but there has to be some kind of common sense with them as well.

 

VAR wipes out common sense

[Bellion]

4 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Precisely. The ref has the final say. We saw that the other day, as that idiot from North Korea blew up for full time with about 10 minutes left to play.

 

Other than it taking wayyyy too long (what's the betting US networks spot that and it becomes a fixture, so they can go to ad breaks?), VAR hasn't been the problem here. Nor - North Korean idiot excepted - have the refs for the most part. The problem is the (very recently rewritten) laws themselves.

 

- The handball law is a joke

 

- The offside law is a joke

 

- The keeper staying on (not even behind - but on) the line law is a joke

 

All three of these joke laws pay no heed whatsoever to common sense or how football is even played. No-one with half a clue thinks what's being given as handball is handball; or that an offside attacker a couple of yards or less from a defender isn't interfering with play; or that it's even possible for a goalkeeper to save a penalty without diving forwards as well as sideways. That last law is in wilful ignorance of gravity itself. 

 

Then there's the bookings too. Yellow card for being hit somewhere on the arm by a football a split second after it's kicked. Yellow card for goalkeeper affected by basic laws of gravity. It's just unbelievable.

 

It's these joke laws which are leading to so much intervention from VAR, so many interminable stoppages, so much confusion among players, managers, commentators, and the watching world. FIFA are probably loving it. It's football as the worst, cruellest reality TV show: roll up, roll up, which poor sucker's next to get it in the neck? Find out after the latest 5 minute delay while the officials try to figure out their arses from their elbows.

 

Referees, meanwhile, find themselves effectively under pressure from VAR to enforce these idiotic beyond belief laws - but as they have the final say, you'll still get inconsistency all over the place. Example: offside goals allowed for Australia v Brazil and USA v Sweden yet disallowed for Chile v USA. One goal - which in the final analysis, eliminated Chile. 

 

Into the knockout stages we go now, and on this nonsense will continue. Destroying dreams, so much hard work, so much sacrifice. All in a day's work for the showers that be at FIFA and on the International Board.

 

This shit will destroy the game if it's allowed to carry on. Not VAR; the laws themselves.

Agree with that to an extent, but VAR is still the bigger problem for me. Several of the mental new laws are a clumsy attempt to make things clearer because we’re saturated by replays these days. Too many opportunities to find inconsistencies/injustices have led to this point where some people seem to think they can be eradicated entirely (they can’t, and it wouldn’t be worth it anyway).

 

The new laws are generally not helpful (mad, in some cases), but what is really anathema is the fact that the game is put on hold for several minutes (in Argentina-Scotland, more than 5% of the total game time) while it’s resolved, often not conclusively or consistently. 

 

Take the keeper on the line rule, which is perhaps the most mental thing I’ve ever seen. A far more effective fix would have been for linesmen to be encouraged to intervene when a keeper clearly cheats by coming 3 yards off his line. Crack down on it like they did with the tackle from behind years ago. Announce that it’s going to be focused on, then do it. That’s not perfect either, but it means that someone can apply their judgment and crack down on the more egregious examples of cheating without the same consequences being robotically applied when someone unknowingly steps an inch off the line like Lee Alexander did. 

 

The way it’s being used at the moment, I don’t see how VAR can realistically be applied fairly or consistently without bringing the game to an almost constant standstill. I don’t see it adding clarity to things like handball calls.

 

Implementing a 3 challenge system, or saying that it can only be used to overturn the ref’s call where there is clear evidence of a mistake, would be an improvement, but it’s still going to mesh badly with a game which appeals to people because of its fluidity and unpredictability. People can moan about diving, bad decisions etc but those things have never disrupted the game as a spectacle to the extent VAR is currently doing. 

[gorgie rd eh11]

3 hours ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

You just don't get it.

 

It's like trying to teach basic arithmetic to a monkey.

 

 

 

[Maroon Sailor]

FFS - Germany goal from a corner

 

Every goal is checked by VAR

 

Spoils the enjoyment of scoring 

 

Now a possible penalty to Germany by VAR

 

Penalty awarded

 

Penalty scored

 

2-0 Germany

 

 

 

 

Edited June 22, 2019 by Maroon Sailor

[graygo]

Bookings for coming off line at penalties now binned.

 

Again making things up on the hoof.

 

https://www.footballscotland.co.uk/spfl/other-football/goalkeepers-wont-booked-coming-line-16467889?fbclid=IwAR155k_MjZ0ZvvSzroKwQOzHbJg6KxRbtFy_XPiqjkrhdHRgoBdrntG4zoY

[gashauskis9]

13 hours ago, graygo said:

Bookings for coming off line at penalties now binned.

 

Again making things up on the hoof.

 

https://www.footballscotland.co.uk/spfl/other-football/goalkeepers-wont-booked-coming-line-16467889?fbclid=IwAR155k_MjZ0ZvvSzroKwQOzHbJg6KxRbtFy_XPiqjkrhdHRgoBdrntG4zoY

The booking isn’t the problem, it’s the daft rule that involves a retake that’s the problem.

[Benzinho]

I reckon it should be like hawkeye in tennis, and each team gets say two challenges per match. That way, the game's not being stopped constantly for every decision and the onus is on the teams rather than the ref or the VAR refs to call it. The manager would notify the 4th official, who would let the ref know and it would be checked. 

 

Teams would then have to be very careful not to waste their challenges, and it would still discourage diving because players would know they will get caught out and booked if the defending team calls it, or if the attacking team calls it for a penalty, they've wasted a challenge which could have been used for a genuine penalty/goal etc.