European Elections

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

 

Correct.

 

I don't think anyone bought that bull about the £350m etc and the Brexit vote is more or less the same now.

But they did though, didn't they. That and the base for of immigrants flooding the streets.

 

5 live had an in depth report from Mansfield this morning, where the Farage party candidate won, on no manifesto incidentally, and the main reason for the swing from the big 2? 

Immigration. 

Foreigners taking our jobs. 

 

 

[frankblack]

11 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

But they did though, didn't they. That and the base for of immigrants flooding the streets.

 

Nope.

 

11 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

5 live had an in depth report from Mansfield this morning, where the Farage party candidate won, on no manifesto incidentally, and the main reason for the swing from the big 2? 

Immigration. 

Foreigners taking our jobs. 

 

 

 

If you go to the likes of pilton you would get similar.  Media playing the racist card again, looking for a story.

 

I've not got time to debate this again but I have fone so many times on here.

[The Mighty Thor]

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

Nope.

 

 

If you go to the likes of pilton you would get similar.  Media playing the racist card again, looking for a story.

 

I've not got time to debate this again but I have fone so many times on here.

What's the thing you've been saying Frank?

Dodge and deflect?

 

You may not like it but the reality is that the main reason a fairly large town in the Midlands voted for a new party with no manifesto was immigration. Why was that not reflected in the Scottish vote?

 

It would appear that any fact that doesn't run with your narrative is fake news whilst you blithely dispense your world view of Brexit/independence.

 

 

[Taffin]

6 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

What's the thing you've been saying Frank?

Dodge and deflect?

 

You may not like it but the reality is that the main reason a fairly large town in the Midlands voted for a new party with no manifesto was immigration. Why was that not reflected in the Scottish vote?

 

It would appear that any fact that doesn't run with your narrative is fake news whilst you blithely dispense your world view of Brexit/independence.

 

 

 

That's why I asked what his constituency is. Mine is Kenilworth and Southam and I can categorically say many people I speak with on a daily basis still think the way they did in 2016 despite it having been highlighted as misinformation over and over again. The example in Mansfield won't be uncommon in middle England. 

[XB52]

11 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

That's why I asked what his constituency is. Mine is Kenilworth and Southam and I can categorically say many people I speak with on a daily basis still think the way they did in 2016 despite it having been highlighted as misinformation over and over again. The example in Mansfield won't be uncommon in middle England. 

And he won't answer. He never does, just goes of on another tangent

[The Mighty Thor]

30 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

That's why I asked what his constituency is. Mine is Kenilworth and Southam and I can categorically say many people I speak with on a daily basis still think the way they did in 2016 despite it having been highlighted as misinformation over and over again. The example in Mansfield won't be uncommon in middle England. 

I don't doubt that for a minute.

 

What I'm finding amazing is the apparently growing difference between Scotland & England in terms of political and social outlook. 

We are living in a time of real change and real division. The UK as an entity is done for IMHO.

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 minute ago, The Mighty Thor said:

I don't doubt that for a minute.

 

What I'm finding amazing is the apparently growing difference between Scotland & England in terms of political and social outlook. 

We are living in a time of real change and real division. The UK as an entity is done for IMHO.

 

[Cade]

I wonder if Herr Farage will grace us with some policy announcements now?

 

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

4 minutes ago, Cade said:

I wonder if Herr Farage will grace us with some policy announcements now?

 

 

[ri Alban]

Boris as PM or even Nigel. Independence is not far away now. I'll just sit back and read the melt down from the helpless onionists  as the cloak ticks doon.

 

 

 

[Cade]

The "immigrants" paradox is quite interesting.

 

In places with the highest levels of immigration, people are more accepting of outsiders.

In places with the lowest levels of immigration, racism and xenophobia are higher.

It seems that it is the FEAR of immigration and believing lies in the media (social or otherwise) is more of a driver for anti-immigrant feelings rather than actual personal experience of outsiders joining the  community.

[ri Alban]

1 minute ago, Cade said:

The "immigrants" paradox is quite interesting.

 

In places with the highest levels of immigration, people are more accepting of outsiders.

In places with the lowest levels of immigration, racism and xenophobia are higher.

It seems that it is the FEAR of immigration and believing lies in the media (social or otherwise) is more of a driver for anti-immigrant feelings rather than actual personal experience of outsiders joining the  community.

I don't think it's fear of immigration, more the Skin tone.

[Sraman]

44 minutes ago, XB52 said:

And he won't answer. He never does, just goes of on another tangent

 

He tried answering me. Must have thought that madness = a soft touch. Poor old chap had to have a lie down for a bit. All I did was promote him to Captain and point out that we are now living through the worst, economic, case scenario forecast for Scottish Independence and it's only gonna get a whole lot worse as the UK follows this impossible path towards his isolationist nirvana.

 

He's quite keen on going round in circles though.

 

Maybe if you talk about round things you may have a better chance of getting him to engage?

[The Mighty Thor]

12 minutes ago, Cade said:

I wonder if Herr Farage will grace us with some policy announcements now?

 

 

In the same way that the brexiteers had no plan A when they won, the Farage self promotion vehicle will put forward nothing at all that they can be questioned or examined on. 

It'll be sound bite central. 

WTO terms/respect the vote blah blah 

[Mikey1874]

 

[Mikey1874]

[Mikey1874]

So MEPs elected

 

SNP 3

Conservative 1

Liberal Democrats 1

Brexit Party 1

 

 

[Ibrahim Tall]

21 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

I don't think it's fear of immigration, more the Skin tone.

 

That itself is idiotic though. Europe in general and specifically in terms of European ‘immigrants’ is generally Caucasian and ‘christian’.

The same can’t be said for the “Commonwealth” we intended to recruit more from in anyone of the pro-leave visions. 

 

 

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

34 minutes ago, Cade said:

I wonder if Herr Farage will grace us with some policy announcements now?

 

 

 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Your wonder what it’ll take for the weirdos backing Corbyn to give up on him 

[Boris]

3 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Your wonder what it’ll take for the weirdos backing Corbyn to give up on him 

 

It's like KPD tactics at the fag end of Weimar.

 

Let it get so ridiculous and bad that *obviously* people will flock to you because you are so right.

 

A degree of hubris from them I'd say.

[redjambo]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

I don't doubt that for a minute.

 

What I'm finding amazing is the apparently growing difference between Scotland & England in terms of political and social outlook. 

We are living in a time of real change and real division. The UK as an entity is done for IMHO.

 

I didn't think I would be saying this a few years ago, but agreed. We're different beasties. Perhaps we should go for this "Scotlond" idea, an amalgamation of Scotland and London.   A new outward-looking progressive internationalist country. Leave the rest to their warm cocoons.

[John Findlay]

2 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

Nope.

 

 

If you go to the likes of pilton you would get similar.  Media playing the racist card again, looking for a story.

 

I've not got time to debate this again but I have fone so many times on here.

Sorry you're talking bollocks. I think you will find the populace of both East and West Pilton have gone from mainly Labour in the past to SNP. People concentrate on the Tories as they are the present government in Westminster and sitting governments always get it far tighter than the opposition. 

Herein lies the problem. The opposition is worse than the government. Jeremy Corbyn will never become prime minister as bad as Theresa May is/was people see Corbyn and his shadow cabinet as worse. The only ones who will disagree  are dyed in the wool vote for labour even if a chimpanzee is wearing a Red rosette people. 

Edited May 27, 2019 by John Findlay

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

I don't doubt that for a minute.

 

What I'm finding amazing is the apparently growing difference between Scotland & England in terms of political and social outlook. 

We are living in a time of real change and real division. The UK as an entity is done for IMHO.

 

It’s very hard to argue with this. The UK is so divided and Scotland does feel more and more like it would be better pursuing its own interests. 

[frankblack]

5 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Sorry you're talking bollocks. I think you will find the populace of both East and West Pilton have gone from mainly Labour in the past to SNP.

 

You missed the point.

 

5 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

People concentrate on the Tories as they are the present government in Westminster and sitting governments always get it far tighter than the opposition. 

Herein lies the problem. The opposition is worse than the government. Jeremy Corbyn will never become prime minister as bad as Theresa May is/was people see Corbyn and his shadow cabinet as worse. The only ones who will disagree  are dyed in the wool vote for labour even if a chimpanzee is wearing a Red rosette people. 

 

Don't disagree there, but don't think the SNP are doing a good job either and the greens let them away with it.

 

Politics throughout the UK has never been poorer.

[John Findlay]

Totally agree with your last sentence.

[Toggie88]

3 hours ago, Ibrahim Tall said:

 

Tbh that’s also ignoring the N Irish parties who DUP aside are all basically ‘remain’ too.

 

It does (ignore the NI parties) - would struggle to put the DUP somewhere. Publicly they're pro-deal, but I suspect privately they will be more concerned about the prospect of the UK breaking up than about EU membership and would probably accept remain at this point. 

 

 

Edited May 27, 2019 by Toggie88

[frankblack]

2 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

What's the thing you've been saying Frank?

Dodge and deflect?

 

You may not like it but the reality is that the main reason a fairly large town in the Midlands voted for a new party with no manifesto was immigration. Why was that not reflected in the Scottish vote?

 

It would appear that any fact that doesn't run with your narrative is fake news whilst you blithely dispense your world view of Brexit/independence.

 

 

The SNP was always the obvious anti-Brexit party to vote for up here.  Its that simple - they have two policies - Independence and stopping Brexit and nothing else.

 

2 hours ago, Taffin said:

 

That's why I asked what his constituency is. Mine is Kenilworth and Southam and I can categorically say many people I speak with on a daily basis still think the way they did in 2016 despite it having been highlighted as misinformation over and over again. The example in Mansfield won't be uncommon in middle England. 

 

I'm Edinburgh West.

 

There were many reasons for voting for Brexit and immigration was not top of the list:

- Not being run by unelected and unaccountable beaurocrats in Brussels who can't pass a budget.

- Free ourselves from the ECJ.

- Take control of our fishing waters.

- Negotiate our trade deals 

- Manage immigration with an Australian style points system.

 

1 hour ago, XB52 said:

And he won't answer. He never does, just goes of on another tangent

 

 

You post as if someone must wait around on Kickback to reply to you.  Sorry to break it to you petal but sometimes I am offline for other commitments or have limited time due to having a life.

[Wee Mikey]

52 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

 

That series is full of absolute belting scenes and that one is an object lesson on how to mock the hard of thinking.

[Sraman]

 

 

What did I tell you about circles?

 

Jeezo!

 

Many reasons. Most of them bigly.

[ri Alban]

1 hour ago, Ibrahim Tall said:

 

That itself is idiotic though. Europe in general and specifically in terms of European ‘immigrants’ is generally Caucasian and ‘christian’.

The same can’t be said for the “Commonwealth” we intended to recruit more from in anyone of the pro-leave visions. 

 

 

Yip!

[ri Alban]

47 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

You missed the point.

 

 

Don't disagree there, but don't think the SNP are doing a good job either and the greens let them away with it.

 

Politics throughout the UK has never been poorer.

It really is Frank, I don't remember a worse batch of political wimps, ever.

[ri Alban]

32 minutes ago, frankblack said:

The SNP was always the obvious anti-Brexit party to vote for up here.  Its that simple - they have two policies - Independence and stopping Brexit and nothing else.

 

 

I'm Edinburgh West.

 

There were many reasons for voting for Brexit and immigration was not top of the list:

- Not being run by unelected and unaccountable beaurocrats in Brussels who can't pass a budget.

- Free ourselves from the ECJ.

- Take control of our fishing waters.

- Negotiate our trade deals 

- Manage immigration with an Australian style points system.

 

 

 

You post as if someone must wait around on Kickback to reply to you.  Sorry to break it to you petal but sometimes I am offline for other commitments or have limited time due to having a life.

You're opinion of the SNP and 2 policies is bollox. 

[ri Alban]

1 hour ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Your wonder what it’ll take for the weirdos backing Corbyn to give up on him 

It's Tom Watson and the shadow chancellor I don't trust. JC is what he is.

[Toggie88]

47 minutes ago, frankblack said:

The SNP was always the obvious anti-Brexit party to vote for up here.  Its that simple - they have two policies - Independence and stopping Brexit and nothing else.

 

 

I'm Edinburgh West.

 

There were many reasons for voting for Brexit and immigration was not top of the list:

- Not being run by unelected and unaccountable beaurocrats in Brussels who can't pass a budget.

- Free ourselves from the ECJ.

- Take control of our fishing waters.

- Negotiate our trade deals 

- Manage immigration with an Australian style points system.

 

 

 

You post as if someone must wait around on Kickback to reply to you.  Sorry to break it to you petal but sometimes I am offline for other commitments or have limited time due to having a life.

 

Nothing but soundbites and a complete misunderstanding of how the EU works, dearie me. 

 

[frankblack]

22 minutes ago, Toggie88 said:

 

Nothing but soundbites and a complete misunderstanding of how the EU works, dearie me. 

 

 

 

Nope - nothing wrong at all in what I said, and its my opinion and I'm not asking anyone to follow it.

 

Your reply is an embarassment and yet another example of the SNP cultists on here playing the man rather than debate the points.

[ri Alban]

9 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

 

Nope - nothing wrong at all in what I said, and its my opinion and I'm not asking anyone to follow it.

 

Your reply is an embarassment and yet another example of the SNP cultists on here playing the man rather than debate the points.

Cultists. Aye, very good. It's that shite that triggers my shite, but for once, I'll bite ma tongue.

[Boris]

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

- Not being run by unelected and unaccountable beaurocrats in Brussels who can't pass a budget.

 

 

27 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

 

Nope - nothing wrong at all in what I said, and its my opinion and I'm not asking anyone to follow it.

 

 

 

So it may be your opinion that we are "run by unelected and unaccountable beaurocrats in Brussels" but it's patently not true.

[ri Alban]

2 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

 

 

So it may be your opinion that we are "run by unelected and unaccountable beaurocrats in Brussels" but it's patently not true.

He must be thinking of The house of Lord's and the Monarchy. 

[frankblack]

9 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

 

 

So it may be your opinion that we are "run by unelected and unaccountable beaurocrats in Brussels" but it's patently not true.

 

Your own post essentially says that the Commission is composed of members who were not elected by the people, and accountable thereafter.

[Sraman]

16 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Your own post essentially says that the Commission is composed of members who were not elected by the people, and accountable thereafter.

 

 

That's why this thread is about the EU parliament Elections.

[The Mighty Thor]

49 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Your own post essentially says that the Commission is composed of members who were not elected by the people, and accountable thereafter.

The commission members are sent by the governments of the member states.

The governments I assume were elected by the people.

Therefore...........

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, The Mighty Thor said:

The commission members are sent by the governments of the member states.

The governments I assume were elected by the people.

Therefore...........

 

Not the same thing.

 

It is the equivalent to scrapping elections for the Welsh and Scottish Parliaments and have Westminster send whoever the felt like to run these institutions.  I assume you wouldn't have a problem with it?

[frankblack]

38 minutes ago, Sraman said:

 

 

That's why this thread is about the EU parliament Elections.

 

And with Brexit we would leave both.  IF Brexit happens the UK elected members will be out of a job by the end of the year.

[dtgj]

16 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Not the same thing.

 

It is the equivalent to scrapping elections for the Welsh and Scottish Parliaments and have Westminster send whoever the felt like to run these institutions.  I assume you wouldn't have a problem with it?

 

Your 'equivalent' is nothing like how it works though. On a UK scale the equivalent would be the democratically elected parliaments in each UK country (you'd have to set up one for England) appointing representatives to get together and decide on topics that need to be addressed at a whole UK level. Those proposals would then be discussed by a democratically elected Westminster parliament. 

 

The European equivalent of your UK scenario would be if we had a democratically elected European parliament that appointed government at a country level. This is not what happens, as adequately explained in the infographic posted by Boris. 

[ri Alban]

36 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

And with Brexit we would leave both.  IF Brexit happens the UK elected members will be out of a job by the end of the year.

The only way to have a second referendum/rejoin the EU, is through independence. And Scotland would be better striking it's own deals to suit the size of the country and the people who live there.

Edited May 27, 2019 by ri Alban

[The Mighty Thor]

33 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Not the same thing.

 

It is the equivalent to scrapping elections for the Welsh and Scottish Parliaments and have Westminster send whoever the felt like to run these institutions.  I assume you wouldn't have a problem with it?

That's really not the same now is it?

 

It's a bit like the taking back control myth, or the 350 million quid lie or Turkey joining the EU lie or indeed the majority of the shite peddled by the leave campaign. 

 

Thankfully the people of Scotland appear to be switched on enough to see past such nonsense. Most of them anyway. 

[Sraman]

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

And with Brexit we would leave both.  IF Brexit happens the UK elected members will be out of a job by the end of the year.

 

 

That is true. Which makes me think, why would anyone on a cushy £250k a year, as quoted by Nigel Farage, want that to end? You do remember all the talk of opportunities that would come along with Brexit? This is definitely one of them. I'm not sure I would have the integrity to give that kind of money up if I was entitled to it, and could manage to string it out, for four or five years. I'm not convinced that Nigel does either. 

 

[Boris]

2 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

Not the same thing.

 

It is the equivalent to scrapping elections for the Welsh and Scottish Parliaments and have Westminster send whoever the felt like to run these institutions.  I assume you wouldn't have a problem with it?

 

Im sorry but it isn’t equivalent. We have direct representation in the eu parliament. 

[Victorian]

The results in Scotland are curious to say the least.    The SNP made gains on a no-Brexit ticket.    The Brexit Party achieved a significant vote share despite Nigel Farage being a long standing opponent of Scottish Independence and generally being pretty toxic in Scotland.      Of the big two parties,    Labour were given a much bigger clobbering than the Tories,    despite Labour being a much bigger possibility of a second referendum or softer Brexit deal.     The Tories hypnotised a section of their followers on a bizarre anti-independence ticket.

 

All over the place.

Edited May 27, 2019 by Victorian