Levein - what now?

[Mr Elwood P]

5 minutes ago, BOBTHEBRUCE said:

I think you know what I mean. 

The fact that we could still win the cup is used as an excuse for backing Levein, and its probably the last legitimate excuse left. 

 

If Celtic win the cup, 

What excuse will you then use to support Levein after another terrible season?

 

 

 

It blatantly has not been a terrible season. We play in three competitions, not one. The league campaign will likely see us finish 6th which is poor, the disappointment is amplified by the great start we made. In the League Cup we finished as semi finalists which considering the dominance of Celtic is about as far as any other team can expect to go currently. In the Scottish Cup we are currently finalists which is a marked improvement on every year since 2012. It is the first time in 14 years that we've managed to get to both semi finals and we are currently in our first final since 2013. To describe a season, where we have been to Hampden twice and also played a semi final at Murrayfield, as terrible shows a complete disconnect from the history of Heart of Midlothian FC. 

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

If they are unfit no but if they played well the week before and are then dropped to maybe bring in a player that Craig feels will stop an opposition player that he over worries about then the continuity is often lost. Just my thoughts anyway. 

 

 

How often has this happened and which players were involved?

[Boab]

1 hour ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

Have you even watched it? McLean tries to pick out Djoum, slips the ball hits his other foot and deflects to Uche. No luck about it?

 How do you know he was trying to pick out Djoum ? Don’t talk pish !

Have I watched it ? It happened right in front of me !

 

As for your wee sideshow remark....must try harder ! D minus !

[Enzo Chiefo]

9 minutes ago, BOBTHEBRUCE said:

I think you know what I mean. 

The fact that we could still win the cup is used as an excuse for backing Levein, and its probably the last legitimate excuse left. 

 

If Celtic win the cup, 

What excuse will you then use to support Levein after another terrible season?

 

 

Win or lose, his tenure should come to an end after the Final.  His failings are clear for all to see and, it beggars belief that some fans on here want to give him another seaaon. He has his Plan A and very little else. 

 

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

48 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

How often has this happened and which players were involved?

 Most people will know who they consider to have played well and then they drop out the next week. Bozanic brings more energy to the team but then drops out for the more lethargic Lee or Clare or Dico looks good and then Shaugnessy jumps ahead of him. You think everything that has gone wrong this season is solely down to bad luck and injury then? 

[fabienleclerq]

9 minutes ago, Boab said:

 How do you know he was trying to pick out Djoum ? Don’t talk pish !

Have I watched it ? It happened right in front of me !

 

As for your wee sideshow remark....must try harder ! D minus !

He looks at Djoum and goes to square it. Do you see it hit his left foot? Do you think he meant it? Do you think he meant it and has put the ball exactly where he wants it? 

 

I'm talking pish? You've said there was no element of luck in our goal, you're wrong get over it. 

[Marvin]

Give it until after the cup final then decide.

[Boab]

14 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

He looks at Djoum and goes to square it. Do you see it hit his left foot? Do you think he meant it? Do you think he meant it and has put the ball exactly where he wants it? 

 

I'm talking pish? You've said there was no element of luck in our goal, you're wrong get over it. 

 You would like me to get over it because you can’t put that spade down !

He was now looking at Djoum ?

Stop digging, mate.

[mitch41]

13 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

A couple of things in the tick column for Levein staying for me are:

 

He's doing an excellent job of convincing some of our best players to sign, and seems fairly confident Naismith might sign. 

 

He knows and takes an interest in our youngsters who often talk about the importance of that. A new manager from outside with club will not risk playing youngsters and could stunt their development.

Who says a new manager wouldn’t risk playing youngsters. All good managers will play kids if they’re good 

enough. I have no problem with Levein working as DOF as long as it’s entirely in a support role to a manager.

The new manager would be only reporting to the CEO and ultimately the Board.

[JamboAl]

21 minutes ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

 Most people will know who they consider to have played well and then they drop out the next week. Bozanic brings more energy to the team but then drops out for the more lethargic Lee or Clare or Dico looks good and then Shaugnessy jumps ahead of him. You think everything that has gone wrong this season is solely down to bad luck and injury then? 

2

Yes, but you obviously don't.  I was looking for instances that caused you to comment.

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

1 minute ago, JamboAl said:

Yes, but you obviously don't.  I was looking for instances that caused you to comment.

You speak up well for the 16% that want Craig to continue, I'll give you that ☺️

[mitch41]

7 hours ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

A cup run clearly isn’t a one of game it’s a sequence of games. It’s a one off game against that particular team, Partick aside but the campaign should be judged as a whole. To say we’ve played nobody apart from Celtic is an embarrassing attitude. Hearts forever and forever more have been knocked out the Cup competitions by ‘lesser teams’. Airdrie, Falkirk and St Mirren are names that spring to mind from our recent history! You can name a bunch of horrendous performances anyone who’s pro Levein can retort by saying we’ve beat Aberdeen twice, Kilmarnock twice away, beat Celtic, nearly taken a point from Celtic with 10 men, unbeaten at Easter Road and had two great cup runs. To say you judge a manager over a season and then discount two of the competitions we have played in whilst also discounting a lot of very good league games just undermines whatever point you may have had.

I respect your point of view even if it is flawed and does not come close to what has happened on the pitch this season.

[James Bell]

14 minutes ago, Boab said:

 You would like me to get over it because you can’t put that spade down !

He was now looking at Djoum ?

Stop digging, mate.

 

Maclean never meant to pass the ball to Uche. I never noticed it at the time but it’s pretty clear the ball never went where he intended it to.

 

Luck, good fortune, whatever. I couldn’t have cared less, I was too busy getting skint shins to worry about it. 

[rudi must stay]

7 hours ago, bistokid said:

 

The last few (15) games have been dire. What could possibly give you any encouragement.

 

And you say this happened last season - what was the outcome of that? Another poor season with terrible football.

 

You could argue injuries haven't helped us

 

And that is not down training in my opinion. Even Man Utd have injury problems.

 

The Inverness and Hibs games hint at a team going somewhere IMO, as does the recent Celtic game. When we're full strength we're a well set up competitive team 

[Mr Elwood P]

8 hours ago, bistokid said:

 

The last few (15) games have been dire. What could possibly give you any encouragement.

 

And you say this happened last season - what was the outcome of that? Another poor season with terrible football.

 

I think this is what undermines the anti Levein posts the most, an inability to look at the game objectively and to perceive any difference from match to match. To suggest that the performance levels in the last 15 games have been dire makes the assumption that each game has been as bad as the last. Having been at Ibrox and been at Hampden I can confirm this is nonsense. The second half against ICT we played very well. The two recent performances against Rangers have been abject and quite frankly pathetic. Both the Edinburgh Derbies have produced very good periods of play by Hearts but also poor periods of play. The performance of the 10 men against Celtic at Tynecastle was excellent and we were very unlucky to concede so late. The second half against Aberdeen was equally a brilliant performance after a poor first 45. The ability to actually look at the situation objectively and not just subjectively decry Hearts as 'dire' adds a lot more to what is an incurably circular argument.

[soonbe110]

29 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

I respect your point of view even if it is flawed and does not come close to what has happened on the pitch this season.

To be fair he raises good points.  The seasons prognosis really is driven by failures against St.Mirren, Dundee and Hamilton as well as that 5-0. Had we beaten those three all three times and only lost by one or two at Livi the perspective would be a pretty good season despite the injuries and lacklustre football. Agree?  Third in league, one semi, one final. Doesn’t get much better for us based on the last 100+ years. 

[Mr Elwood P]

1 minute ago, soonbe110 said:

To be fair he raises good points.  The seasons prognosis really is driven by failures against St.Mirren, Dundee and Hamilton as well as that 5-0. Had we beaten those three all three times and only lost by one or two at Livi the perspective would be a pretty good season despite the injuries and lacklustre football. Agree?  Third in league, one semi, one final. Doesn’t get much better for us based on the last 100+ years. 

 

I actually think the critical failure, outside of the injuries, have been our capitulations against Rangers. We've taken 0 from 12. Aberdeen have taken 5 from 12, Kilmarnock have 4 from 9 and Hibs have taken 3 from 9. Two wins against them at Tynecastle would have closed the gap between us and 3rd considerably. Perhaps a combination of our posts is the crucial factor, our loss of home form? Undefeated away from home against both Kilmarnock and Hibs but beaten neither of them at Tynecastle. I'm hopeful that next season we combine this seasons away form and last seasons home form.

[Jammy T]

5 hours ago, Jodami said:

Those are seriously maroon tinted spectacles Jammy! At Kilmarnock and Motherwell we toughed it out defensively and took our chances, first half at Hamilton we were poor. 

The fact is that those victories and most of our other highlights of this season have revolved around Naismith. His form in the autumn got him back in the national team. Being reliant on one outstanding player is not a way to build a team and our one dimensional approach when he is not in the team reveals a lack of quality on the coaching side. That needs addressed in order for us to make progress. 

 

So give me an example of when we have played 10 or 12 games of better football in a row since Romanov’s first season? The JJ run was great in results terms but one dimensional.

[Jammy T]

4 hours ago, Hampden Demolition said:

Sunday was another below par performance and we got lucky with the equaliser. My stance hasn’t changed - Levein needs to go at the end of the season to give us any chance of progression. He has had his chance to sign his own players and we are no further forward. Allowing him to continue over the summer and into next season runs the risk of writing off yet another year. Change is needed.

 

Thats the opinion of somebody who will never change is mind so pointless debating.

 

it was a decent performance away from home and if you think our equaliser was lucky compared with their opening goal then you’re either blind or mental.

[i wish jj was my dad]

2 hours ago, Morgan said:

 

 

I know you’re being sarcastic, but it almost feels as though what you are saying, is indeed some folks agendas.

That's what it feels like. I know the season hasn't panned out the way it should have and despite the mitigating circumstances I now expect Levein to fall on his sword BUT the obsessive venom aimed at him has been ridiculous. Some twats openly admit they want to lose against Hibs so that he will get emptied. Arseholes of the highest order. 

[Hampden Demolition]

18 minutes ago, Jammy T said:

 

Thats the opinion of somebody who will never change is mind so pointless debating.

 

it was a decent performance away from home and if you think our equaliser was lucky compared with their opening goal then you’re either blind or mental.

 

I would change my mind if I was seeing consistently better product on the pitch. One game against Hibs and a late equaliser is not going to change my mind and nor should it. I’m not happy with the majority of our performances this season or at the lack of progression from where we finished last year despite a whole new squad being signed. I have nothing against CL and I wish it had worked out differently (cup aside). We have seen the proof since September that we are no further forward and if he was anyone else, he would’ve been out the door by now.

[Jodami]

21 minutes ago, Jammy T said:

 

So give me an example of when we have played 10 or 12 games of better football in a row since Romanov’s first season? The JJ run was great in results terms but one dimensional.

I'm struggling with your definition of great football Jammy, it was a great run of results but it was not sparkling football in many of those games. In addition to the games I mentioned we stood up and toughed it out against Celtic, once again taking our chance when we got it and we were pretty fortunate against Dunfermline at East End in the League Cup. We comfortably beat St Mirren which you would expect, were mediocre against Livi and had our best performance of the run against Motherwell in the League Cup (we only just won that in the end as well though). We had momentum, were an improvement on the turgid end of last season, but we were not blowing decent teams away. Most of these were Naismith inspired as I pointed out. It's not massively dissimilar to the JJ run you refer to. Without Naismith though we are dire, we can't rely on one player who may not play for most of a season. 

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

You speak up well for the 16% that want Craig to continue, I'll give you that ☺️

I wasn't in the 16%, as far as I recall, but one thing I can give you is that you are fantastic at avoiding questions when you can't back up what you say.

Try answering now.   The question is below in case you have forgotten.

(How often has this happened and what players were involved?)

[Enzo Chiefo]

52 minutes ago, Jodami said:

I'm struggling with your definition of great football Jammy, it was a great run of results but it was not sparkling football in many of those games. In addition to the games I mentioned we stood up and toughed it out against Celtic, once again taking our chance when we got it and we were pretty fortunate against Dunfermline at East End in the League Cup. We comfortably beat St Mirren which you would expect, were mediocre against Livi and had our best performance of the run against Motherwell in the League Cup (we only just won that in the end as well though). We had momentum, were an improvement on the turgid end of last season, but we were not blowing decent teams away. Most of these were Naismith inspired as I pointed out. It's not massively dissimilar to the JJ run you refer to. Without Naismith though we are dire, we can't rely on one player who may not play for most of a season. 

You only have to look at our goals scored column as evidence of the type of football we play. If you only want us to be hard to beat and be mid table, well clear of relegation, then Levein is your man. There will be plenty of running, slow passing across the back and getting the ball up quickly to Uche so it "sticks" - CL's own terminology.  We score first and the meaningless passing increases and everyone comes back to defend corners. Long throw ins, set pieces, height strength and endeavour. It's not pretty to watch imo. Other, more modern managers can set up their teams and change mid game, as Heckingbottom did on Sunday. Uche didn't play at Ibrox but we still adopted the same tactics, with long balls up to Wighton, in his place. We need a fresh approach that will allow the club to progress and the youngsters to develop. Levein isn't the man.

Edited April 30, 2019 by Enzo Chiefo

[BOBTHEBRUCE]

Look at our goal difference compared to the teams above us. 

That really does paint a picture. 

 

[mitch41]

1 hour ago, BOBTHEBRUCE said:

Look at our goal difference compared to the teams above us. 

That really does paint a picture. 

 

When you look at the stats in the league how can anyone want Levein and his Bootroom to stay in charge of HIS team. 

[jambos are go!]

5 hours ago, James Bell said:

 

Maclean never meant to pass the ball to Uche. I never noticed it at the time but it’s pretty clear the ball never went where he intended it to.

 

Luck, good fortune, whatever. I couldn’t have cared less, I was too busy getting skint shins to worry about it. 

Only on JKB. Hibs score from a definitely  flukey own goal from a player not under pressure but the focus is on whether or not our well worked equaliser MIGHT be a fluke.

[siegementality]

5 hours ago, BOBTHEBRUCE said:

Look at our goal difference compared to the teams above us. 

That really does paint a picture. 

 

Form the last ten league games. Relegation material.

[JamboGraham]

1 hour ago, siegementality said:

Form the last ten league games. Relegation material.

 

Grim reading of course...but one caveat worth noting is that after game 33 the full league form table becomes less relevant each week as it is effectively two divisions. So you’ll expect the worst team in the top six to have a poorer record than the best teams in the bottom six.

 

Please don’t interpret this as a defence of the manager or the numbers it’s just a fact due to the structure of our league and 2 wins in 10 cannot be argued as acceptable.

[siegementality]

9 minutes ago, JamboGraham said:

 

Grim reading of course...but one caveat worth noting is that after game 33 the full league form table becomes less relevant each week as it is effectively two divisions. So you’ll expect the worst team in the top six to have a poorer record than the best teams in the bottom six.

 

Please don’t interpret this as a defence of the manager or the numbers it’s just a fact due to the structure of our league and 2 wins in 10 cannot be argued as acceptable.

Hearts being “the worst team in the top six” is most certainly not acceptable.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, BOBTHEBRUCE said:

Look at our goal difference compared to the teams above us. 

That really does paint a picture. 

 

 

It looks like the GD of a team that lost their best strikers and defenders to injury for extended periods at the same time.

 

Kind of like spurs struggling to score today without Kane and Son.

 

Did any of the teams above us lose their four most influential and hard to replace players at the same time?

[fabienleclerq]

8 hours ago, jambos are go! said:

Only on JKB. Hibs score from a definitely  flukey own goal from a player not under pressure but the focus is on whether or not our well worked equaliser MIGHT be a fluke.

Nobody is arguing that hibs goal was a fluke though, we are all in agreement. 

 

I'll ask you the same question Boab won't answer, do you think McLean meant to pass to Uche? 

[siegementality]

5 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

It looks like the GD of a team that lost their best strikers and defenders to injury for extended periods at the same time.

 

Kind of like spurs struggling to score today without Kane and Son.

 

Did any of the teams above us lose their four most influential and hard to replace players at the same time?

 

Last years isn’t much better. What’s the excuse for that?

[i wish jj was my dad]

20 hours ago, fabienleclerq said:

Dunne going meant Berra coming back in early, shaughnessy isnt equally competent. In regards to players not being good enough that CL signed I meant the likes of Wighton and McLean up front. 

Yet McLean changed the game on Sunday and CL got some stick for not starting him. Funny old game

[i wish jj was my dad]

15 hours ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

 Most people will know who they consider to have played well and then they drop out the next week. Bozanic brings more energy to the team but then drops out for the more lethargic Lee or Clare or Dico looks good and then Shaugnessy jumps ahead of him. You think everything that has gone wrong this season is solely down to bad luck and injury then? 

It is well documented that Diko is carrying an injury. Now, I may be guessing but that might be why Shaughnessy is starting in front of him. 

 

I am.surprised that Lee and Clare start as often as they do when Levein only wants athletes and hammer throwers in his team. Something they can't be accused of.

[fabienleclerq]

2 hours ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

Yet McLean changed the game on Sunday and CL got some stick for not starting him. Funny old game

He absolutely did, I like McLean but he's struggled to make an impact when starting and when naismith and Uche have been missing hasn't been good enough. 

[Beast Boy]

The fact that less than four weeks before a national cup final, there are two threads on Kickback calling for the manager to be sacked is a ****ing disgrace in my opinion. Symptomatic of just how many utter ***** we have in our support these days. This forum is now just as shit as Facebook or Twitter. Shame really.

[Boab]

3 hours ago, fabienleclerq said:

Nobody is arguing that hibs goal was a fluke though, we are all in agreement. 

 

I'll ask you the same question Boab won't answer, do you think McLean meant to pass to Uche? 

 You were the one who said our goal had as much luck as their goal. The only reason I got involved in this nonsense was to rubbish that claim. Jambos are go’s post is spot on. A well worked goal and trying to wriggle out of this by asking if he meant to pass it to Uche, is pathetic. He put the ball in the middle, the big guy was there. End of story.

You’re right, Jambos are go......only on JKB !

Apologies for derailing the Levein bash, folks. That’s enough from me.

[Jodami]

18 minutes ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said:

The fact that less than four weeks before a national cup final, there are two threads on Kickback calling for the manager to be sacked is a ****ing disgrace in my opinion. Symptomatic of just how many utter ***** we have in our support these days. This forum is now just as shit as Facebook or Twitter. Shame really.

Respectfully disagree that one game should mask the obvious issues in the team that have ran on for months. Your own it's fine if the football is poor as long as we win mantra isn't standing up either. Really good to see you back though sir! 

[BOBTHEBRUCE]

43 minutes ago, Jodami said:

Respectfully disagree that one game should mask the obvious issues in the team that have ran on for months. Your own it's fine if the football is poor as long as we win mantra isn't standing up either. Really good to see you back though sir! 

  

We're not winning either though.. 

 

[RudiHMFC]

That form table makes me sick.

[Prof]

20 hours ago, Mr Elwood P said:

To describe a season, where we have been to Hampden twice and also played a semi final at Murrayfield, as terrible shows a complete disconnect from the history of Heart of Midlothian FC.

Rubbish. Stared season well but other teams worked out how to beat us. Since then we have played one dimensional hoofball which has been dire and isn’t how Hearts teams of the past played. In the Scottish cup we have the easiest of draws and still managed to make a meal of it.

[fabienleclerq]

1 hour ago, Boab said:

 You were the one who said our goal had as much luck as their goal. The only reason I got involved in this nonsense was to rubbish that claim. Jambos are go’s post is spot on. A well worked goal and trying to wriggle out of this by asking if he meant to pass it to Uche, is pathetic. He put the ball in the middle, the big guy was there. End of story.

You’re right, Jambos are go......only on JKB !

Apologies for derailing the Levein bash, folks. That’s enough from me.

 

Glad we've cleared up he never meant to pass to Uche and luck was involved. We got there. 

[Jammy T]

12 hours ago, siegementality said:

Form the last ten league games. Relegation material.

 

And from the first 10 games Champions winning material

 

Stupid point.

Edited May 1, 2019 by Jammy T

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, Prof said:

Rubbish. Stared season well but other teams worked out how to beat us. Since then we have played one dimensional hoofball which has been dire and isn’t how Hearts teams of the past played. In the Scottish cup we have the easiest of draws and still managed to make a meal of it.

3

Utter rubbish.

Injuries worked out how to beat us + weegie refs!

[Maroonblood22]

6 minutes ago, Jammy T said:

 

And from the first 10 games Champions winning material

 

Stupid point.

 

Considering the term 'anti-Levein agenda' get's thrown about all over the shop I would say this is anything but a stupid point for those who are of the opinion that we need to change the manager for next season.

 

The poster has posted factual information showing our current form, surely that's more relevant to the argument than what happened in the 10 games at the start of the season?

[BOBTHEBRUCE]

We've had most of our players back for months now as well.

 

It basically points to us being heavily reliant on Nasismith. 

 

 

[Jammy T]

5 minutes ago, Maroonblood22 said:

 

Considering the term 'anti-Levein agenda' get's thrown about all over the shop I would say this is anything but a stupid point for those who are of the opinion that we need to change the manager for next season.

 

The poster has posted factual information showing our current form, surely that's more relevant to the argument than what happened in the 10 games at the start of the season?

 

Explain why?

 

He has quoted selective recent form FACT. I posted selective form from the start of the season FACT.

 

Why is his point any different from mine?

Edited May 1, 2019 by Jammy T

[JamboAl]

8 minutes ago, BOBTHEBRUCE said:

We've had most of our players back for months now as well.

It basically points to us being heavily reliant on Nasismith. 

 

 

1

1

Maybe so but some are not up to match fitness yet but you'll know that.  There is an argument that we should not be playing them but the only way they'll get back to match fitness is by playing games.  We are not so well off that we can put in quality replacements for our most influential players.

Many teams are reliant on one player as Spurs supporters have found out.

Edited May 1, 2019 by JamboAl

[Maroonblood22]

11 minutes ago, Jammy T said:

 

Explain why?

 

He has quoted selective recent form FACT. I posted selective form from the start of the season FACT.

 

Why is his point any different from mine?

 

The difference being you bluntly replied to his form table that it was a stupid point.

 

It's the form over a season that counts and of course the very different form in both parts of the season is relevant, but to call reference to our current form as a stupid point makes no sense when people are putting forward their reasons for CL-in or CL-out.

 

It's a perfectly valid reason and provides some basis in response to the Levein agenda chat. It's arguable that the current form is more relevant than the form of 10 games at the start of the season.