Levein - what now?

[gashauskis9]

41 minutes ago, maroonnicky63 said:

Yeh let’s give it to a novice as suggested, deary me

You still quoting me 2 weeks later.  I’ve already responded to you, you could at least quote me on my response not my initial point.  

[OmiyaHearts]

1 hour ago, grumpyespana said:

I am fed up hearing that the fans want Levein out ,Christ I think with his plans for next season which seem sensible to me are just what we need he deserves at least another season as they say Rome was never build in a day.

Can the plans be considered sensible if Craig is still in charge? Surely everyone realises that we'll be subjected to another season of launching balls to a big striker and with others feeding off second balls?

 

I don't think the manager has earned or deserves another season. Hopefully he can move on as a cup winner and we don't look back on his reign as being a failure.

[Paul Shark]

1 hour ago, grumpyespana said:

I am fed up hearing that the fans want Levein out ,Christ I think with his plans for next season which seem sensible to me are just what we need he deserves at least another season as they say Rome was never build in a day.

Do you think if Craig Levein is in charge next season we will see a change in style of play ? 

[grumpyespana]

8 hours ago, Paul Shark said:

Do you think if Craig Levein is in charge next season we will see a change in style of play ? 

That's a hard one to answer to be honest but if we can get in Naisie  and two or three quality players there is nothing to say  what will happen next season.

[grumpyespana]

I forgot to add that were we not flying during the first quarter of the season with Leveins so called punt up the park, if punting it up the park is going to give us more success who cares lol.

[Thomaso]

44 minutes ago, grumpyespana said:

I forgot to add that were we not flying during the first quarter of the season with Leveins so called punt up the park, if punting it up the park is going to give us more success who cares lol.

 

You seem to forget that teams soon sussed out our punt up the park tactics!

Levein has no plan B!

[Cruyff Turn]

I think we should see who we sign in the summer and how we perform for the first 10 games. If it’s still a shitefest. Punt.

[i wish jj was my dad]

1 hour ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

 

You seem to forget that teams soon sussed out our punt up the park tactics!

Levein has no plan B!

But we weren't punting it up the park. We have been poor for most of the season but up until Naismith got injured the football was good. The Motherwell league cup tie was one of the best games I've watched in years.

[BOBTHEBRUCE]

He should go in the summer. 

 

[Jammy T]

No club that changes managers frequently gets anywhere. Look at Man U since Ferguson left, Leeds United etc.

 

Levein has it and he will prove it next season when our team rebuilding from bankruptcy completes its first cycle.

[rick witter]

2 hours ago, Cruyff Turn said:

I think we should see who we sign in the summer and how we perform for the first 10 games. If it’s still a shitefest. Punt.

And ruin yet another season. If we are happy with being mid table Levein is the man. Personally I think we should be aiming a bit higher. 

[rick witter]

1 minute ago, Jammy T said:

No club that changes managers frequently gets anywhere. Look at Man U since Ferguson left, Leeds United etc.

 

Levein has it and he will prove it next season when our team rebuilding from bankruptcy completes its first cycle.

He said last season that it would be this season we would see improvement and we have not. It’s always next year. And next year it will be the following year. This is his team with his signings and we are garbage!!! 

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 hour ago, BOBTHEBRUCE said:

He should go in the summer. 

 

And it has to be announced before the Cup Final to give the club and the supporters a boost. We can then move on to next season. Consecutive 6th place finishes after bringing in 25 players is nowhere near good enough. 

[Kiwidoug]

2 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

And it has to be announced before the Cup Final to give the club and the supporters a boost. We can then move on to next season. Consecutive 6th place finishes after bringing in 25 players is nowhere near good enough. 

That final point is the clincher for me.  The nagging doubt is whether the successor will be any better.

 

Still think he's bullet proof though and going nowhere.

[Jammy T]

47 minutes ago, rick witter said:

He said last season that it would be this season we would see improvement and we have not. It’s always next year. And next year it will be the following year. This is his team with his signings and we are garbage!!! 

 

When at full strength we have seen improvement.

 

In a hellish year for injuries we’ve reached two semi finals.

 

People chug themselves off about Sergio and we did **** all in the league.

[grumpyespana]

48 minutes ago, rick witter said:

He said last season that it would be this season we would see improvement and we have not. It’s always next year. And next year it will be the following year. This is his team with his signings and we are garbage!!! 

There has been a improvement this season ie. was top of the league until injuries hit key players we also reach one semi-final and now the Scottish cup final Christ Levein will be in charge next season.

[Morgan]

7 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

And it has to be announced before the Cup Final to give the club and the supporters a boost. We can then move on to next season. Consecutive 6th place finishes after bringing in 25 players is nowhere near good enough. 

You think it would be a ‘boost’ to the club, and it’s fans, to go into a Cup Final managerless?

 

I say this because, if he leaves before the Final, who takes charge that quick?

 

McPhee?

[i wish jj was my dad]

4 minutes ago, Morgan said:

You think it would be a ‘boost’ to the club, and it’s fans, to go into a Cup Final managerless?

 

I say this because, if he leaves before the Final, who takes charge that quick?

 

McPhee?

Cup final doesn't matter. Getting rid of Dr Evil is far more important than having any chance of success. 

[Mr Elwood P]

19 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

And it has to be announced before the Cup Final to give the club and the supporters a boost. We can then move on to next season. Consecutive 6th place finishes after bringing in 25 players is nowhere near good enough. 

 

Would you rather finish fourth or be in the Scottish Cup final on May 25th? With our horrendous and yet continuing spate of injuries we were never going to sustain a challenge on all three fronts. We excelled in the Premiership and League Cup until November when the league form dropped off a cliff and we lost the League Cup semi final to a team with a bigger wage bill than Champions League semi finalists Ajax! The Scottish Cup run has been excellent and Levein also guided us past Hibs and St Johnstone last season in the same competition. We were unlucky against Motherwell to lose to a wonder strike at the end. Under Neilson the constant complaints were lack of cup runs and poor derby performances. Levein has managed a number of derby wins, including taking 4/6 points at Easter Road this term, whilst also getting us to the League Cup semi and Scottish Cup final. The league campaign has flatlined after an excellent start but I'd much rather be at Hampden on May 25th than battling it out for 3rd or 4th. Levein will be here next season, we have secured most of our key players and once we add a bit more quality next season we will be able to challenge on all three fronts. 

[Mr Elwood P]

3 hours ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

 

You seem to forget that teams soon sussed out our punt up the park tactics!

Levein has no plan B!

 

It's been proven than another nine teams in the Scottish Premiership play more long balls than Hearts so the 'hoof' patter is just wilful ignorance! The introduction of players like Clare and Mulraney into the squad is a clear indication of a variation of tactics. I think what we are currently seeing is 'plan B' as plan A is injured. Out of interest where do all the Levein-Exit (LeXit) brigade reckon we would have finished if Uche and Naismith had played more than a handful of games together? Or if we'd even had half the number of injuries which would still have been double a normal campaign.

[grumpyespana]

8 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

Would you rather finish fourth or be in the Scottish Cup final on May 25th? With our horrendous and yet continuing spate of injuries we were never going to sustain a challenge on all three fronts. We excelled in the Premiership and League Cup until November when the league form dropped off a cliff and we lost the League Cup semi final to a team with a bigger wage bill than Champions League semi finalists Ajax! The Scottish Cup run has been excellent and Levein also guided us past Hibs and St Johnstone last season in the same competition. We were unlucky against Motherwell to lose to a wonder strike at the end. Under Neilson the constant complaints were lack of cup runs and poor derby performances. Levein has managed a number of derby wins, including taking 4/6 points at Easter Road this term, whilst also getting us to the League Cup semi and Scottish Cup final. The league campaign has flatlined after an excellent start but I'd much rather be at Hampden on May 25th than battling it out for 3rd or 4th. Levein will be here next season, we have secured most of our key players and once we add a bit more quality next season we will be able to challenge on all three fronts. 

Your right EP on all accounts.

[rick witter]

28 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

Would you rather finish fourth or be in the Scottish Cup final on May 25th? With our horrendous and yet continuing spate of injuries we were never going to sustain a challenge on all three fronts. We excelled in the Premiership and League Cup until November when the league form dropped off a cliff and we lost the League Cup semi final to a team with a bigger wage bill than Champions League semi finalists Ajax! The Scottish Cup run has been excellent and Levein also guided us past Hibs and St Johnstone last season in the same competition. We were unlucky against Motherwell to lose to a wonder strike at the end. Under Neilson the constant complaints were lack of cup runs and poor derby performances. Levein has managed a number of derby wins, including taking 4/6 points at Easter Road this term, whilst also getting us to the League Cup semi and Scottish Cup final. The league campaign has flatlined after an excellent start but I'd much rather be at Hampden on May 25th than battling it out for 3rd or 4th. Levein will be here next season, we have secured most of our key players and once we add a bit more quality next season we will be able to challenge on all three fronts. 

Slavers 

[Mr Elwood P]

Just now, rick witter said:

Slavers 

 

Eloquent and thought provoking as ever. You can google most of those statements and confirm their veracity. The opening sentence was a question, one can only assume that 'slavers' was your answer? You can use them to lube yourself up and bash yourself into an anti Levein froth.

 

Kind regards

Mr Elwood P Dowd

[Enzo Chiefo]

49 minutes ago, Morgan said:

You think it would be a ‘boost’ to the club, and it’s fans, to go into a Cup Final managerless?

 

I say this because, if he leaves before the Final, who takes charge that quick?

 

McPhee?

No, I mean Levein is still in charge for the final. Nobody could deny him his day in the sun. The announcement would be regarding his departure in the summer.

[Enzo Chiefo]

9 minutes ago, rick witter said:

Slavers 

Sustain a challenge on all 3 fronts? You make us sound like we were in line for a treble. People working themselves into a froth about "the start to the season" need to remember that most of the games were won by fine margins, other teams had injuries etc and there was an element of surprise with our new players. We had a good run of fixtures and ground out some good victories. It was never a title challenge,  regardless of injuries. In the second quarter there was a correction and things started to go against us and in favour of others. Pretty much like every season. The finishing position is where you are judged and 6th place finishes behind Hibs and Killie are not good enough.

[JamboGraham]

1 minute ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

The games were won by fine margins.

 

Yeah, that’s the very worst kind of win...I just hate it when we we win the wrong way, yeuch!!!..with you all the way here Enzo!!!

[mitch41]

It shouldn't be make decision in the summer but 

He goes in the summer

 

1. So he gets emptied now.

2. He gets emptied after the Scottish Cup Final.

3. He stays as manager.

 

 

Honestly if you start a poll get the questions right.

Edited April 29, 2019 by mitch41

[Enzo Chiefo]

46 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

Would you rather finish fourth or be in the Scottish Cup final on May 25th? With our horrendous and yet continuing spate of injuries we were never going to sustain a challenge on all three fronts. We excelled in the Premiership and League Cup until November when the league form dropped off a cliff and we lost the League Cup semi final to a team with a bigger wage bill than Champions League semi finalists Ajax! The Scottish Cup run has been excellent and Levein also guided us past Hibs and St Johnstone last season in the same competition. We were unlucky against Motherwell to lose to a wonder strike at the end. Under Neilson the constant complaints were lack of cup runs and poor derby performances. Levein has managed a number of derby wins, including taking 4/6 points at Easter Road this term, whilst also getting us to the League Cup semi and Scottish Cup final. The league campaign has flatlined after an excellent start but I'd much rather be at Hampden on May 25th than battling it out for 3rd or 4th. Levein will be here next season, we have secured most of our key players and once we add a bit more quality next season we will be able to challenge on all three fronts. 

10/10 for spin. Of course you prefer a Cup Final but that in itself is not a measure of success. In terms of the quality of the team or squad, 3rd or 4th is a far better indicator. Motherwell got to 2 Cup Finals last season and are now bottom 6.

[Mr Elwood P]

Just now, mitch41 said:

It shouldn't be make decision in the summer but 

He goes in the summer

 

1. So he gets emptied now.

2. He gets emptied after the Scottish Cup Final.

3. He stays as manager.

 

Why would he get emptied now? He’s lost one cup game all season and we’re in a cup final. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 minute ago, JamboGraham said:

 

Yeah, that’s the very worst kind of win...I just hate it when we we win the wrong way, yeuch!!!..with you all the way here Enzo!!!

With a 0 goal difference last season and -5 this season , that tends to be the way we win games Graham. There is a reason why the OF are on +50.

[mitch41]

Just now, Mr Elwood P said:

 

Why would he get emptied now? He’s lost one cup game all season and we’re in a cup final. 

Are you asking me.....

Well personally now I'd empty him after the Cup Final win or lose.

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 hour ago, Kiwidoug said:

That final point is the clincher for me.  The nagging doubt is whether the successor will be any better.

 

Still think he's bullet proof though and going nowhere.

The same with any managerial change Doug, but it's not a reason to stick with mediocrity. I sincerely hope you're wrong on the second point.

[JamboGraham]

9 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

We had a good run of fixtures.

 

Spot on Enzo...they almost made it too easy at the start of the season by only scheduling us to play matches against other sides in the same division as us...rather unfair on the others when you look back at it now.

[JamboGraham]

3 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

With a 0 goal difference last season and -5 this season , that tends to be the way we win games Graham. There is a reason why the OF are on +50.

 

I am agreeing with you Enzo...I don’t think we should even count the 3 points unless the victory is by 2 or 3 clear goals...it just seems so unsporting.

[Mr Elwood P]

1 minute ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

10/10 for spin. Of course you prefer a Cup Final but that in itself is not a measure of success. In terms of the quality of the team or squad, 3rd or 4th is a far better indicator. Motherwell got to 2 Cup Finals last season and are now bottom 6.

 

Of course getting to cup finals is a barometer of success. We still use getting to the QF of the UEFA Cup as a barometer of success. Celtic still talk about the loss to Porto as a great achievement. Rangers laud Gerrard for just getting to the Europa League group stages. I think you need to separate the season into the three or four competitions we compete in and then look at each separately and as a whole: 

 

League: Poor

league Cup: Good

Scottish Cup: Very good, with a prevailing chance of excellence.

 

Ask any Aberdeen fan if they’d swap those 2nd place finishes for another trophy or two and i’m sure they all would. Hearts as a football club are about the Scottish cup and beating Hibs. The league is beyond anyone else currently and finishing 3rd isn’t all that exciting. 

[mitch41]

59 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

Would you rather finish fourth or be in the Scottish Cup final on May 25th? With our horrendous and yet continuing spate of injuries we were never going to sustain a challenge on all three fronts. We excelled in the Premiership and League Cup until November when the league form dropped off a cliff and we lost the League Cup semi final to a team with a bigger wage bill than Champions League semi finalists Ajax! The Scottish Cup run has been excellent and Levein also guided us past Hibs and St Johnstone last season in the same competition. We were unlucky against Motherwell to lose to a wonder strike at the end. Under Neilson the constant complaints were lack of cup runs and poor derby performances. Levein has managed a number of derby wins, including taking 4/6 points at Easter Road this term, whilst also getting us to the League Cup semi and Scottish Cup final. The league campaign has flatlined after an excellent start but I'd much rather be at Hampden on May 25th than battling it out for 3rd or 4th. Levein will be here next season, we have secured most of our key players and once we add a bit more quality next season we will be able to challenge on all three fronts. 

More excuses for Levein. An example is: Hearts are the only team that get injuries. 

[Mr Elwood P]

6 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

Are you asking me.....

Well personally now I'd empty him after the Cup Final win or lose.

 

Why would you sack him if we won the Scottish Cup? We’d have a Europa League qualifier 5 weeks after it and he’s the last manager to get us to the group stages? The players that have all signed extended deals and those arriving such as Halkett will all be expecting Levein to be here. I think Naismith coming back this season speaks for itself regarding the work that goes on behind the scenes. If Naismith signs a permanent deal that a huge endorsement of what Levein is looking to build. A player who’s played at the highest level and worked under some top managers would not be working under Levein if he’s as inept as many would have you believe. Bit of patience required but we aren’t far away.

[Thomaso]

2 hours ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

But we weren't punting it up the park. We have been poor for most of the season but up until Naismith got injured the football was good. The Motherwell league cup tie was one of the best games I've watched in years.

 

That Motherwell game was a cracker - one of the very few I’m afraid!

[Thomaso]

1 hour ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

It's been proven than another nine teams in the Scottish Premiership play more long balls than Hearts so the 'hoof' patter is just wilful ignorance! 

 

Berra will be delighted to hear that!! That will give him carte blanch to carry out more hoofing!! ?

[Cruyff Turn]

2 hours ago, rick witter said:

And ruin yet another season. If we are happy with being mid table Levein is the man. Personally I think we should be aiming a bit higher. 

There needs to be a sense of realism. Like it or not this is what seems to be happening. He’s continuing to identify targets and continues to make new signings, which suggests to me he’s going to see this through.

 

Tbf I doubt CL is happy with mid table either. 

 

See who we sign. I know for a fact this squad isn’t good enough to finish top 3/4 in the league. We might have finished 5th at best this season.

 

We need 4 or 5 players who will improve the starting XI. If he does that and we keep our key players fit, things might be different.

[mitch41]

2 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

Why would you sack him if we won the Scottish Cup? We’d have a Europa League qualifier 5 weeks after it and he’s the last manager to get us to the group stages? The players that have all signed extended deals and those arriving such as Halkett will all be expecting Levein to be here. I think Naismith coming back this season speaks for itself regarding the work that goes on behind the scenes. If Naismith signs a permanent deal that a huge endorsement of what Levein is looking to build. A player who’s played at the highest level and worked under some top managers would not be working under Levein if he’s as inept as many would have you believe. Bit of patience required but we aren’t far away.

You judge a manager and his coaching team over a season.

And it's shown us Levein is out of his depth. The cup runs are one of games inwhich we haven't played anyone except Celtic. 

Dire, shambolic at times, lackluster, need I go on. Getting hammered by Livingston 5-0, beat by teams like Dundee and St Mirren is embarrasing and being 6th behind the likes of Kilmarnock and Hibs is not where Hearts should be.

[JamboGraham]

8 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

Hearts are the only team that get injuries. 

 

I think this argument has been overplayed and we should have adapted to the situation quicker...however...

 

Aberdeen, Hearts, Kilmarnock and Aberdeen have all used a high number of players in their first teams this season (26,31,29,35).

 

For the first 33 games Killie had injured players unavailable for selection for 15 matches in total. We were 141 matches, Hibs 128 and Aberdeen 71.

 

For me that is the primary reason that a club with the resources of Kilmarnock has been able to maintain their high position over two seasons. I would also think that the very high unavailable numbers from both us and Hibs play a significant, but not entire, part in the fact that both clubs have had such underwhelming seasons in the league minus a short burst (us early in the season, them late in the season). 

[Randy Marsh]

1 hour ago, Jammy T said:

 

When at full strength we have seen improvement.

 

In a hellish year for injuries we’ve reached two semi finals.

 

People chug themselves off about Sergio and we did **** all in the league.

 

We whitewashed Hibs, beat Celtic and won at Ibrox.  Not bad considering he only signed one player.

[JackLadd]

Levein did better yesterday, doesn't rub out some of the other horrible displays but he seems to have worked out the key is to stop shipping goals and the formation worked in that regard. Was still the same eye bleeding stuff in the main mind. 

[Kiwidoug]

Craig  if you are staying please recognise that even in the Championship we didn't score enough goals against the better sides.  We haven't scored enough for years.

 

Appoint Naismith as first team coach with McPhee and make them responsible for strategy on the park and tactics.

 

You can oversee the academy and dealing with players agents etc re contracts.  

 

The majority of supporters don't want you to stay on as 1st team coach because despite your best efforts you haven't done nearly well enough.  Recruitment has bern laughable and listless performances have become the norm.

 

Make the Naismith appointment well before the Cup Final if you can get it accriss the line.  It will give everyone a huge boost, your integrity will remain in tact and the brasso will be out on 26th May.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Cruyff Turn said:

There needs to be a sense of realism. Like it or not this is what seems to be happening. He’s continuing to identify targets and continues to make new signings, which suggests to me he’s going to see this through.

 

Tbf I doubt CL is happy with mid table either. 

 

See who we sign. I know for a fact this squad isn’t good enough to finish top 3/4 in the league. We might have finished 5th at best this season.

 

We need 4 or 5 players who will improve the starting XI. If he does that and we keep our key players fit, things might be different.

 

A couple of things in the tick column for Levein staying for me are:

 

He's doing an excellent job of convincing some of our best players to sign, and seems fairly confident Naismith might sign. 

 

He knows and takes an interest in our youngsters who often talk about the importance of that. A new manager from outside with club will not risk playing youngsters and could stunt their development.

[rudi must stay]

Just like last season at the same time the last few games have suprised me and hint at decent things and a plan that I didn't see in January/ February.

 

Carry on with the same things: more bold decisions like Cochrane and Smith playing and let's see where things go

 

[It should have been ten]

19 hours ago, grumpyespana said:

I am fed up hearing that the fans want Levein out ,Christ I think with his plans for next season which seem sensible to me are just what we need he deserves at least another season as they say Rome was never build in a day.

 

Well said ??

[Mr Elwood P]

6 hours ago, mitch41 said:

You judge a manager and his coaching team over a season.

And it's shown us Levein is out of his depth. The cup runs are one of games inwhich we haven't played anyone except Celtic. 

Dire, shambolic at times, lackluster, need I go on. Getting hammered by Livingston 5-0, beat by teams like Dundee and St Mirren is embarrasing and being 6th behind the likes of Kilmarnock and Hibs is not where Hearts should be.

 

A cup run clearly isn’t a one of game it’s a sequence of games. It’s a one off game against that particular team, Partick aside but the campaign should be judged as a whole. To say we’ve played nobody apart from Celtic is an embarrassing attitude. Hearts forever and forever more have been knocked out the Cup competitions by ‘lesser teams’. Airdrie, Falkirk and St Mirren are names that spring to mind from our recent history! You can name a bunch of horrendous performances anyone who’s pro Levein can retort by saying we’ve beat Aberdeen twice, Kilmarnock twice away, beat Celtic, nearly taken a point from Celtic with 10 men, unbeaten at Easter Road and had two great cup runs. To say you judge a manager over a season and then discount two of the competitions we have played in whilst also discounting a lot of very good league games just undermines whatever point you may have had.

Edited April 30, 2019 by Mr Elwood P

[bistokid]

3 hours ago, rudi must stay said:

Just like last season at the same time the last few games have suprised me and hint at decent things and a plan that I didn't see in January/ February.

 

Carry on with the same things: more bold decisions like Cochrane and Smith playing and let's see where things go

 

 

The last few (15) games have been dire. What could possibly give you any encouragement.

 

And you say this happened last season - what was the outcome of that? Another poor season with terrible football.