U.S. Politics megathread (merged)

[Cade]

Maybe, just maybe, shite like this will secure a large Democrat win in the mid-terms.

 

Probably not though. The USA is a broken nation and on the verge of becoming a failed state.

[J.T.F.Robertson]

18 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Great decision by the pro life fanatics in US. Presumably they'll ban bullets as they kill people and people have a right to life, they'll stop attacking their enemies in Afghanistan, Iraq and other Middle Eastern countries by way of drones as these enemies have a 'right to life' and they will have to abandon the death penalty as the condemned have. 'right to life'.

No more switching off life support in hospitals for those in comas or who have no brain activity as they have right to life and future medical research may enable them to recover.

 

 

 

 

 

An unforgivable decision, made by the terminally stupid in defence of beliefs that a 'magic man', who never ever existed, encourages his supporters to follow.

I like US in many areas, sports, technology development and research to name but a few, but the downright insanity that the right wing fundamentalists have enacted makes me scared for the future.

 

These ***** have weapons that could wipe out mankind and given the right scenario, they'll use it in defence of a Constitution that isn't fit to be used to wipe shit off a diarrhea ridden monkey.

God bless America my arse.

 

👍 But women's rights are shat on in places like Afghanistan and it's a despicable human rights violation. 😞

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

15 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

Overturning Roe should transfer the abortion issue to the people, to debate and decide for themselves through their elected representatives, which is also known as democracy. If States decide to ban it via the ballot box then that is the will of the people and conversely if States allow it via the ballot box that is also the will of the people of that State. 

 

That's all fine and well if it were to work that way, however there are around 25 states whose elected representatives are going to impliment this ruling without giving their constituents any say whatsoever, one way or the other.

[Maple Leaf]

1 hour ago, Imaman said:

My reasoning is with the defenceless children or cells or never was which is a strange way to describe potential life. You are encouraging and facilitating the death of these living growing cells that will never get a chance to live a life if they are aborted. 
Why would the the birth of another child have an devastating effect on already born children? We in the west live in a society (in the UK) where the state provides support to families. We can argue that it’s never enough help but there is still support from the state for families. 

Once an egg is fertilised in the fallopian tube, it needs to make it's way down to the uterus and attach itself to the wall.  Fully 50% of those fertilised eggs fail to do that and are spontaneously aborted.  Of those that are successful, within three months about 30% of them will also be spontaneously aborted, presumably because of defects.  If I've done my arithmetic properly, that's only about 34% of fertilised eggs survive beyond 3 months in utero. That's God working in His mysterious way, I suppose.

 

If you're angry about the loss of "living growing cells", now you know where to direct your anger.

[FWJ]

22 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Make it a women only vote and that's a good idea.

Actually, no
 

https://amp.theguardian.com/science/the-lay-scientist/2014/apr/30/why-are-women-more-opposed-to-abortion

 

That raises some pretty big implications, the most obvious being that if it were left to women to vote on the issue, with men out of the picture, there’s a good chance that the result would be in favour of restricting abortion. On the flip side, if only men voted, they’d almost certainly vote in favour of women’s reproductive rights.

Edited June 24, 2022 by FWJ

[Unknown user]

Just now, FWJ said:

Actually, no
 

https://amp.theguardian.com/science/the-lay-scientist/2014/apr/30/why-are-women-more-opposed-to-abortion

It's not to get a result I want, it's that only women should have a say in women being forced to go through pregnancy.

[Malinga the Swinga]

Just now, J.T.F.Robertson said:

 

👍 But women's rights are shat on in places like Afghanistan and it's a despicable human rights violation. 😞

 

I think you will find that these women are 'Mussies (Muslim to you and me) and we all know that the US Christian movement ****ing hates Mussies (they worship the wrong 'magic man'), therefore they have no human rights.

It's really quite simple, US Christian movement worships the right make up effigy while rest of believers worship wrong made up effigy. 

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, FWJ said:

Actually, no
 

https://amp.theguardian.com/science/the-lay-scientist/2014/apr/30/why-are-women-more-opposed-to-abortion

Interesting article 👍

My big takeaway is that it's talking about more restrictions rather than banning.

That would suggest that many women agree with concerns of "indiscriminate use" (not my accusation) at least, but I wonder what the result would be for outright banning.

[Don Dan]

38 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Do you advocate forcing a rape victim to carry to full term, to give birth to an unwanted baby, to go home with 20 quid a week child allowance when she didn't want any kids?

As I have said I am for the unborn child who has no say in this at all. The sate needs to up its game and support these children if they get a chance of life. 

[Don Dan]

I’m bowing out now and leave this to the those who advocate killing unborn  children

[Norm]

2 minutes ago, Imaman said:

As I have said I am for the unborn child who has no say in this at all. The sate needs to up its game and support these children if they get a chance of life. 

How about all the pro-birth people adopt the unwanted kids? Everyone's a winner. 

[Unknown user]

Just now, Imaman said:

As I have said I am for the unborn child who has no say in this at all. The sate needs to up its game and support these children if they get a chance of life. 

Why is that elevated over the rights of the existing human being who you want to give no say in this at all?

What if they're a junkie? Or mental? An AIDS patient?

 

1 minute ago, Imaman said:

I’m bowing out now and leave this to the those who advocate killing unborn  children

 

Yeah, I'd be out too.

[J.T.F.Robertson]

9 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

I think you will find that these women are 'Mussies (Muslim to you and me) and we all know that the US Christian movement ****ing hates Mussies (they worship the wrong 'magic man'), therefore they have no human rights.

It's really quite simple, US Christian movement worships the right make up effigy while rest of believers worship wrong made up effigy. 

 

I'm aware of that, only now they're using those "beliefs" against "their own" although "their own" will consist mainly of they with barely a pot to piss in.

 

[FWJ]

5 minutes ago, Imaman said:

I’m bowing out now and leave this to the those who advocate killing unborn  children

Yup

 

Leave it to those who think women should be allowed to do what they want with their bodies and aren’t merely incubators.

[Unknown user]

16 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Interesting article 👍

My big takeaway is that it's talking about more restrictions rather than banning.

That would suggest that many women agree with concerns of "indiscriminate use" (not my accusation) at least, but I wonder what the result would be for outright banning.

I'm not sure I agree with my vote agreement now.

 

I'm thinking about it - if a vote of men decided I had to do something with my body, I'd tell them to **** off, I'm in charge of this body, no one else.

So is it fair if a female election decides that a vulnerable girl has to spend 9 months of her youth carrying a child she doesn't want?

It's no fairer than if it was a vote from everyone, my body's not a democracy and I don't expect anyone elses to be either.

 

The bottom line is that abortions WILL happen, that's a stone cold fact. We can't allow criminality to be a deciding factor in a child coming into this world and we can't force vulnerable young girls into illegal, highly invasive medical procedures.

 

The debate needs to be won not forced.

Edited June 24, 2022 by Smithee

[J.T.F.Robertson]

8 minutes ago, Imaman said:

I’m bowing out now and leave this to the those who advocate killing unborn  children

 

There are more than nine billion of our screwed up species already on this infinitesimal speck of cosmic dust as it stands??

 

[Seymour M Hersh]

29 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

That's all fine and well if it were to work that way, however there are around 25 states whose elected representatives are going to impliment this ruling without giving their constituents any say whatsoever, one way or the other.

 

I'm sure they'll be able to get enough signatures to get it on the ballot papers for the mid-terms. 

[Unknown user]

12 minutes ago, Norm said:

How about all the pro-birth people adopt the unwanted kids? Everyone's a winner. 

It sounds a radge idea, but it wouldn't half help some understand the life changing consequences.

Whose 14 year old grand daughter does it have to be before the existing human being gets rights too?

[Don Dan]

17 minutes ago, Norm said:

How about all the pro-birth people adopt the unwanted kids? Everyone's a winner. 

Some of us have

[The Real Maroonblood]

3 minutes ago, Imaman said:

Being called a weirdo because I support the unborn’s right to life? 

Welcome back.

[Norm]

10 minutes ago, Imaman said:

Some of us have

Some isn't enough going by the number of kids up for adoption. And that's with abortion being legalised. 

Edited June 24, 2022 by Norm

[Unknown user]

21 minutes ago, Imaman said:

Some of us have

The vast, vast majority of you haven't.

[il Duce McTarkin]

33 minutes ago, Irufushi said:

(admin delete)

 

Harsh. I'm in the pro-abortion camp, but I'm deeply uneasy about that fact. I had no qualms at all until my own children came along, then it struck me that if nature had run it's course, I'd have been a father 22 years earlier. Ultimately, it was the woman who made the decision, and I was fully supportive at the time for entirely selfish reasons. I'd have been supportive either way, mind. 

I'm not a fan of abortion as a means of contraception, but accept that it is the lesser of many evils in many cases. The fact of the matter is, though, a woman should always have the right of control over her own body. 

[Don Dan]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

The vast, vast majority of you haven't.

More shame on them. 

[Don Dan]

20 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Welcome back.

I get really really upset at this issue and to be honest it distresses me. 
I’m a fool to have voiced my opinions on abortion but I felt the need to speak up for the helpless. 
I guessed who would respond. 

Edited June 24, 2022 by Imaman

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, Imaman said:

I get really really upset at this issue and to be honest it distresses me. 
I’m a fool to have voiced my opinions on abortion but I felt the need to speak up for the helpless. 
I guessed who would respond. 

 

Some of the helpless anyway.

[Mikey1874]

1 minute ago, Imaman said:

I get really really upset at this issue and to be honest it distresses me. 
I’m a fool to have voiced my opinions on abortion but I felt the need to speak up for the helpless. 
I guessed who would respond. 

 

It's true that people against abortion have views that can be argued well.

 

Life is interesting in being complicated though. Where are women now in the US or Poland (the template for zero abortion)? 

 

As pointed out women in America will still get abortions. Happens everywhere. Including Poland. There are some well established techniques that don't require a doctor or nurse. And now we have pills we also have well established systems for distributing illegal drugs. 

 

Will women become more free if there is no abortion? Or is it a mans world. 

[Don Dan]

3 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Some of the helpless anyway.

No I do my best to speak up and support the helpless where and how I can 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

4 minutes ago, Imaman said:

I get really really upset at this issue and to be honest it distresses me. 
I’m a fool to have voiced my opinions on abortion but I felt the need to speak up for the helpless. 
I guessed who would respond. 

 

No, your not a fool, in fact you are braver than many including myself.  There are many subjects which I have an opinion on but can't be arsed with all the flak that'll go with it, so I keep my gob shut.

 

I might not agree with your view, but I respect your right to express it.

[Don Dan]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

It's true that people against abortion have views that can be argued well.

 

Life is interesting in being complicated though. Where are women now in the US or Poland (the template for zero abortion)? 

 

As pointed out women in America will still get abortions. Happens everywhere. Including Poland. There are some well established techniques that don't require a doctor or nurse. And now we have pills we also have well established systems for distributing illegal drugs. 

 

Will women become more free if there is no abortion? Or is it a mans world. 

People seem to forget that men are suffers from abortion too. We have already had one  poster who has expressed that sentiment. 
 

[Maple Leaf]

11 minutes ago, Dirk McClaymore said:

 

Harsh. I'm in the pro-abortion camp,

Very few people are pro-abortion.  Most people are of the opinion that abortion is a private matter for the woman involved, and she alone should have the choice about how to proceed with her pregnancy.

[Don Dan]

Just now, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

No, your not a fool, in fact you are braver than many including myself.  There are many subjects which I have an opinion on but can't be arsed with all the flak that'll go with it, so I keep my gob shut.

 

I might not agree with your view, but I respect your right to express it.

Thank  you 👍

[il Duce McTarkin]

4 minutes ago, Imaman said:

I get really really upset at this issue and to be honest it distresses me. 

 

This is an entirely understandable place to be. 

 

3 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Some of the helpless anyway.

 

It can be an incredibly troubling for some people though. 

 

It's not unusual for a person to hold conflicting views on a matter depending on which point of departure they examine it from. 

 

It's up to the individual to decide which way they'll ultimately lean, but I have sympathy for both viewpoints.

[il Duce McTarkin]

6 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

Very few people are pro-abortion.  Most people are of the opinion that abortion is a private matter for the woman involved, and she alone should have the choice about how to proceed with her pregnancy.

 

I probably didn't word it very well. 

 

Pro-choice would indeed have been better, with a recognition that abortion can be a necessary part of that, however unpalatable it may be. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

13 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

Very few people are pro-abortion.  Most people are of the opinion that abortion is a private matter for the woman involved, and she alone should have the choice about how to proceed with her pregnancy.

This.

[Unknown user]

7 minutes ago, Dirk McClaymore said:

 

This is an entirely understandable place to be. 

 

 

It can be an incredibly troubling for some people though. 

 

It's not unusual for a person to hold conflicting views on a matter depending on which point of departure they examine it from. 

 

It's up to the individual to decide which way they'll ultimately lean, but I have sympathy for both viewpoints.

I've disagreed with myself already on this.

Ultimately though, while I can accept that people are torn, the anti abortion stance is one that humanises a bunch of cells while dehumanising a bunch of actual humans.

[Don Dan]

Here is my back ground for being a prolife. 
I rarely if if ever have shared it with anyone. 
In the past I had two girl friends who fell pregnant by me. Both chose to have abortions despite me offering to take care of the children and them.
Do the right thing so to speak after having done the wrong thing! 

That’s the way it was. 

subsequently I have grieved the loss of two children all my life. I was part of their being but had no say what so ever in their life ending. Since then I have been against abortion and sex outside marriage as I experienced first hand the consequences of it. I regret it to this day. 
 

I would never under any circumstances have shared this info but feel it important in this instance to share where I’m coming from. 
 

 

[il Duce McTarkin]

Just now, Smithee said:

I've disagreed with myself already on this.

Ultimately though, while I can accept that people are torn, the anti abortion stance is one that humanises a bunch of cells while dehumanising a bunch of actual humans.

 

I agree with you. 

[Cade]

The same zoomers than bang on about "pro life" are very often the same zoomers that bang on about "overpopulation"

 

 

[Ked]

2 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

 

Well there's one way we differ, you care more about a potential, not an actual person, but a couple of cells you would need a microscope to see, is more important and deserving of concern than an already living breathing human being who may even already have children to take care of.

 

You would prefer to deprive this living breathing feeling human being and her existing children of her life, for the sake of a non living non breathing non feeling handful of cells.

 

My empathies can't get around that. But then i'm not turning to any bronze age book of mythology for help in trying to make decisions that affect living breathing feeling humans. And I suspect you do.

This is where I'm troubled.

Describing an unborn baby as a group of cells is as ignorant as the people who protest outside abortion clinics.

And what exactly is the mythology of the bronze age?

The more we learn about how a foetus develops is all the more reason to examine our attitudes.

 

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, Imaman said:

Here is my back ground for being a prolife. 
I rarely if if ever have shared it with anyone. 
In the past I had two girl friends who fell pregnant by me. Both chose to have abortions despite me offering to take care of the children and them.
Do the right thing so to speak after having done the wrong thing! 

That’s the way it was. 

subsequently I have grieved the loss of two children all my life. I was part of their being but had no say what so ever in their life ending. Since then I have been against abortion and sex outside marriage as I experienced first hand the consequences of it. I regret it to this day. 
 

I would never under any circumstances have shared this info but feel it important in this instance to share where I’m coming from. 
 

 

Mate stop apologising. You have a view. 
Peoole get over sensitive about some random giving them stick on a forum. 
Tell them to **** off and keep expressing your view. You’re allowed one. 
Personally I’m torn on the issue but believe banning anything only drives it out of sight and into the wrong hands.
When will govts and humans in general ever learn that banning anything never works. 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

53 minutes ago, Imaman said:

Some of us have

Abortion is ancient and global. If you want to decrease abortion, decrease unwanted pregnancies. Don't force people to carry pregnancies to term, given how brutal even a normal, healthy, wanted pregnancy can be to a woman's health.

 

This will not stand. Millions of people will suffer and hundreds will die in the meantime, but we will overcome it. Of that you can be absolutely certain.

[il Duce McTarkin]

2 minutes ago, Cade said:

The same zoomers than bang on about "pro life" are very often the same zoomers that bang on about "overpopulation"

 

 

 

That's deeply disrespectful to the poster who's had the balls to come on and explain how he arrived at his viewpoint. 

Really poor show. 

[Maple Leaf]

2 minutes ago, Cade said:

The same zoomers than bang on about "pro life" are very often the same zoomers that bang on about "overpopulation"

 

 

 

And it has been my experience that many of the pro-life people are also pro-death when it comes to capital punishment, which is clearly a contradiction.  That applies overwhelmingly to right-wing politicians in the USA.

[Ked]

4 minutes ago, Smithee said:

I've disagreed with myself already on this.

Ultimately though, while I can accept that people are torn, the anti abortion stance is one that humanises a bunch of cells while dehumanising a bunch of actual humans.

Again Smithee other than the first week or two the foetus is much more than a bunch of cells.

The relationship between the mother and the unborn child deserves much more respect.

3 minutes ago, Cade said:

The same zoomers than bang on about "pro life" are very often the same zoomers that bang on about "overpopulation"

 

 

I guess I have fell into this category.

Although I wouldn't say I bang on about it.

 

As I said I'm not religious but there is something so wonderful about life that it's wrong that we cannot separate that from what appears to be political.

 

I'm part of that as well.

 

[Ked]

24 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

Very few people are pro-abortion.  Most people are of the opinion that abortion is a private matter for the woman involved, and she alone should have the choice about how to proceed with her pregnancy.

I have to say that it does in the end come down to this.

And it's very difficult to find a right answer.

 

However the numbers really are a concern.

[Ked]

15 minutes ago, Imaman said:

Here is my back ground for being a prolife. 
I rarely if if ever have shared it with anyone. 
In the past I had two girl friends who fell pregnant by me. Both chose to have abortions despite me offering to take care of the children and them.
Do the right thing so to speak after having done the wrong thing! 

That’s the way it was. 

subsequently I have grieved the loss of two children all my life. I was part of their being but had no say what so ever in their life ending. Since then I have been against abortion and sex outside marriage as I experienced first hand the consequences of it. I regret it to this day. 
 

I would never under any circumstances have shared this info but feel it important in this instance to share where I’m coming from. 
 

 

Respect

[jack D and coke]

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

It won't stop at abortion, already seen one person say that it's only half the job done, next are the family planning clinics.

And I'd bet he isn't alone in his view of no abortion, no contraception.

 

This decision will only enbolden those who think they hold the righteous moral ground.

 

[Cade]

Same-sex marriage will be up next.

 

Mark my words.