U.S. Politics megathread (merged)

[Justin Z]

6 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Still pretty depressing though. I promise you Biden will achieve nothing in these next fours years and will change very little. It takes Trump out of the equation but you’ll see big problems over there.

 

Nailed it.

 

“No one’s standard of living will change, nothing would fundamentally change.” — Joe Biden, 2019

 

And still liberals' reaction to last night was

 

[Mikey1874]

21 minutes ago, Gone said:

Can see why Trump said what he said now. He knew the mailing vote would be the final nail and wanted it stopped whilst he was ahead.

 

Toys out the pram

 

I hadn't quite grasped that earlier.

 

Trump has indeed said counting should be stopped and the result declared ignoring up to 100 million postal votes. 

 

Which has him winning as he said. 

Edited November 4, 2020 by Mikey1874

[Don Dan]

Trump is not going quietly. 

[Jeff]

24 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Absent an absolute majority for any candidate, a contingent election is held in the House of Representatives per Article 2, Section 1 of the Constitution. Each state's delegation of representatives votes as a bloc, kind of keeping with the theme of the electoral college, and voting would undoubtedly fall along party lines. Republicans control majorities in 26 state contingents, so they would undoubtedly push Trump through in this scenario, and all of Joe Biden's outreach to the GOP would be shown up for what it was: a bunch of idiotic bullshit.

 

Would it not make sense to go by actual votes as a fall back or would some see that as unfair?

[SwindonJambo]

10 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Hope so. As long Joe just makes it to the inauguration, he can stand down after that. 

Even if Trump were to hold onto Michigan. Biden can still win Pennsylvania. 

I think Pennsylvania's a goner unfortunately. 

 

Despite the undoubted weakness of the candidates it's been a strangely exciting count. Hope Trump is shitting his pants.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Whatever happens, this should be the end for opinion polls. News outlets should just stop reporting on them. Complete waste of time and energy. 

[Justin Z]

Just now, Gone said:

 

Would it not make sense to go by actual votes as a fall back or would some see that as unfair?

 

It would make a lot of sense, but the Constitution is the supreme law of the land and not following the procedure it calls for would be unlawful.

[kingantti1874]

1 minute ago, Justin Z said:

 

Nailed it.

 

“No one’s standard of living will change, nothing would fundamentally change.” — Joe Biden, 2019

 

And still liberals' reaction to last night was

 

Biden will do one term only, and hopefully return the USA to its previous position as a functioning member of the global community... going forward hopefully there are credible republican and democratic candidates.

 

I can’t accept that any functioning human thinks that ****ing lying, bleach injecting arsehole is fit to lead any nation, never mind the USA

 

[XB52]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Shitehousery of the highest order. 😂

I must be totally dumb but I have no idea what this Amanda Knox stuff is about????

[Sidelight]

Pennsylvania Attorney General's tweet was 'an assault on Democracy'

 

[Jeff]

Just now, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

Whatever happens, this should be the end for opinion polls. News outlets should just stop reporting on them. Complete waste of time and energy. 

 

Heard somewhere earlier that theyve been way out both times due to Trump voters being quiet about voting him for whatever reasons

[Justin Z]

1 minute ago, SwindonJambo said:

I think Pennsylvania's a goner unfortunately. 

 

Despite the undoubted weakness of the candidates it's been a strangely exciting count. Hope Trump is shitting his pants.

 

(again)

 

[Justin Z]

2 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

I can’t accept that any functioning human thinks that ****ing lying, bleach injecting arsehole is fit to lead any nation, never mind the USA

 

Start accepting it, and start blaming the Democrats for it being this way. If not for Covid, Trump would have won comfortably.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

1 minute ago, Justin Z said:

 

Start accepting it, and start blaming the Democrats for it being this way. If not for Covid, Trump would have won comfortably.

 

That's harsh, surely? The two things that have probably hurt Biden the most are being tagged "socialist" and the inherent hatred of "libs" from so many. How would a more left candidate like Sanders or Cortez address that and have a hope of winning? Genuine question. 

[EH11_2NL]

5 minutes ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

Whatever happens, this should be the end for opinion polls. News outlets should just stop reporting on them. Complete waste of time and energy. 

Absolutely this! It's like having H1b5 favourite for a derby 

[Jeff]

Farage and Morgan had a bit of handbags over Trump's disinfectant comments earlier by the way.

 

Feels strange siding with the phone hacker

[King prawn]

Serious question. Is @alfajambo a bot? Has only ever posted on the Donald Trump thread and only posts the sort of nonsense I’d expect of a bampot Trump supporter on Twitter. 

[benny]

3 minutes ago, Gone said:

Farage and Morgan had a bit of handbags over Trump's disinfectant comments earlier by the way.

 

Feels strange siding with the phone hacker

Is the phone hacker not a fan anymore.

[Ray Gin]

3 minutes ago, King prawn said:

Serious question. Is @alfajambo a bot? Has only ever posted on the Donald Trump thread and only posts the sort of nonsense I’d expect of a bampot Trump supporter on Twitter. 

 

He's posted a load of pish in other threads too. Not for a while though.

 

[SwindonJambo]

3 minutes ago, King prawn said:

Serious question. Is @alfajambo a bot? Has only ever posted on the Donald Trump thread and only posts the sort of nonsense I’d expect of a bampot Trump supporter on Twitter. 

 

He might as well be. I place zero value on anything he says on this thread.

[Justin Z]

2 minutes ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

 

That's harsh, surely? The two things that have probably hurt Biden the most are being tagged "socialist" and the inherent hatred of "libs" from so many. How would a more left candidate like Sanders or Cortez address that and have a hope of winning? Genuine question. 

 

Well that's exactly the point. The delusional extreme right nutjob Trump cultists were always going to brand anybody a socialist, even a centre-right corporatist like Biden.

So what was Biden's strategy? Try to appeal to the only slightly less nutty right winger suburban GOP voters, instead of a base of tens of millions that actually want things like a Green New Deal and Medicare-For-All. “Socialist boogeymen” for the nutters, yes, but reasonable, mainstream policies for most of America. Even Fox News has admitted it in their coverage last night:

 

 

72% in favour. The Democrats ran on nothing—giving people absolutely no hope or reason to vote for them during a pandemic. The only reason Trump looks to have possibly lost is his own ineptitude. And if he's won? The fault lies entirely with Joe Biden and the Democratic establishment.

[kingantti1874]

5 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Start accepting it, and start blaming the Democrats for it being this way. If not for Covid, Trump would have won comfortably.

Very disappointing that so many would be led by a blatant liar, and frankly and absolute scumbag of a man. 
 

i genuinely do not know what people are thinking. 
 

 

[SwindonJambo]

10 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

(again)

 

Excellent 🤣

[The Hogfather]

4 minutes ago, King prawn said:

Serious question. Is @alfajambo a bot? Has only ever posted on the Donald Trump thread and only posts the sort of nonsense I’d expect of a bampot Trump supporter on Twitter. 

 

Hopefully they get thread banned soon. They posted the same video three times after it kept being deleted. Not here to further the discussion, merely trying to get bites.

[Justin Z]

4 minutes ago, King prawn said:

Serious question. Is @alfajambo a bot? Has only ever posted on the Donald Trump thread and only posts the sort of nonsense I’d expect of a bampot Trump supporter on Twitter. 

 

He's an evangelical Christian and as such, he's useful for helping to understand the deluded mindset of tens of millions of folk throughout America, especially the old Confederate, slavery-loving South.

Nothing he has posted in this thread is super unusual to see from everyday folk in the States. Eyeroll-inducing, yeah, but not unusual.

 

Nobody ever needs to wonder why I'd rather be in Scotland

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

1 minute ago, Justin Z said:

 

Well that's exactly the point. The delusional extreme right nutjob Trump cultists were always going to brand anybody a socialist, even a centre-right corporatist like Biden.

So what was Biden's strategy? Try to appeal to the only slightly less nutty right winger suburban GOP voters, instead of a base of tens of millions that actually want things like a Green New Deal and Medicare-For-All. “Socialist boogeymen” for the nutters, yes, but reasonable, mainstream policies for most of America. Even Fox News has admitted it in their coverage last night:

 

 

72% in favour. The Democrats ran on nothing—giving people absolutely no hope or reason to vote for them during a pandemic. The only reason Trump looks to have possibly lost is his own ineptitude. And if he's won? The fault lies entirely with Joe Biden and the Democratic establishment.

 

Yeah, thanks. You know better than I do but I would be absolutely astonished if anyone won a US presidential election running on the green new deal and universal healthcare unless the voting system is completely overhauled. 

[Des Lynam]

9 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Biden will do one term only, and hopefully return the USA to its previous position as a functioning member of the global community... going forward hopefully there are credible republican and democratic candidates.

 

I can’t accept that any functioning human thinks that ****ing lying, bleach injecting arsehole is fit to lead any nation, never mind the USA

 

You’re only as good as the opposition you face. The media dominate life so much that folks have become deaf and entrenched in their views. 

[Justin Z]

2 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Very disappointing that so many would be led by a blatant liar, and frankly and absolute scumbag of a man. 
 

i genuinely do not know what people are thinking.

 

We were talking about this a bit last night.

 

Folk have gotten the equivalent of less than £1,000 to last them eight months during a pandemic, while corporations got bailed out to the tune of over £1 trillion.

 

Tens of millions could be rendered homeless before this is over, having been evicted because they couldn't pay their rent.

 

That they're either minded to believe a charlatan like Trump telling them he's going to fix things, or aren't the least bit energised to go out and vote for Biden, who has offered nothing, is just things playing out exactly as we should expect, you know?

[Justin Z]

2 minutes ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

 

Yeah, thanks. You know better than I do but I would be absolutely astonished if anyone won a US presidential election running on the green new deal and universal healthcare unless the voting system is completely overhauled. 

 

Bernie Sanders would have crushed Trump under his shoe in this election. Every poll showed it, and he was the only one to consistently call him exactly what he is: A racist, fascist piece of human garbage.

 

The Dems were more concerned about beating Bernie and crushing the actual left in this country, which represents a massive block of voiceless folk, than they were about getting Trump out of office, and that is why we are seeing these results now.

[Gizmo]

1 hour ago, alfajambo said:

States like Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania declaring they need more days to count their votes raises the real possibility of voter fraud.

The steal is on, not that you seem to be interested.

However, I suspect the ruse will fail.

 

Ok, let's examine this.

Could there be fraud? Yes.

Is it all going to be by democrats - not a chance. 
Remind me which sitting president was rescued from impeachment by partisan republicans not adhering to well established precedent.
Remind me which president has had his lawyer and a litany of advisors sent to prison.
Remind me which party blocked an early Supreme Court appointee of Obama's but hypocritically ignored their own precedent to install another Trump/Republican leaning Judge.
Remind me which candidate has called the result before all legitimate votes have been counted.

Set against that, you are going to seriously claim that only democrat voter fraud is possible?

Next you'll be telling us Frank McGarvey didn't cheat v Celtic. 
 

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Just now, Justin Z said:

 

Bernie Sanders would have crushed Trump under his shoe in this election. Every poll showed it, and he was the only one to consistently call him exactly what he is: A racist, fascist piece of human garbage.

 

The Dems were more concerned about beating Bernie and crushing the actual left in this country, which represents a massive block of voiceless folk, than they were about getting Trump out of office, and that is why we are seeing these results now.

 

Although, these results at the moment look like Biden is going to eke out a slim win by going after those Republican switchers in Michigan and Wisconsin. So it looks like it will work in winning this one in the immediate term. Where else would Biden have scooped votes other than the rust belt? Florida? Texas? I doubt it. 

 

**** knows how the left (whose ideas I believe in by the way) manage to penetrate the people who not only vote for Trump but unbelievably voted for him this time and not the last time. I'd love it to be Cortez in a few years but that's probably a fantasy. 

[Jeff]

Democrats are odds on for Pennsylvania now

[kingantti1874]

8 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

We were talking about this a bit last night.

 

Folk have gotten the equivalent of less than £1,000 to last them eight months during a pandemic, while corporations got bailed out to the tune of over £1 trillion.

 

Tens of millions could be rendered homeless before this is over, having been evicted because they couldn't pay their rent.

 

That they're either minded to believe a charlatan like Trump telling them he's going to fix things, or aren't the least bit energised to go out and vote for Biden, who has offered nothing, is just things playing out exactly as we should expect, you know?

yep agree, there must have been better options.

 

what a mess

[King prawn]

13 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

He's posted a load of pish in other threads too. Not for a while though.

 

Fair enough Ray. Hadn’t seen them on any other thread and it occurred to me I’d only seem them post here. At least the other threads have been saved!

13 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

He might as well be. I place zero value on anything he says on this thread.

It just doesn’t seem human the way they write or what they post!

12 minutes ago, Nunya Business said:

 

Hopefully they get thread banned soon. They posted the same video three times after it kept being deleted. Not here to further the discussion, merely trying to get bites.

10 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

He's an evangelical Christian and as such, he's useful for helping to understand the deluded mindset of tens of millions of folk throughout America, especially the old Confederate, slavery-loving South.

Nothing he has posted in this thread is super unusual to see from everyday folk in the States. Eyeroll-inducing, yeah, but not unusual.

 

Nobody ever needs to wonder why I'd rather be in Scotland

I’d love to know how you know but it would make sense  The rest of your post is worrying to read but perhaps explains why it’s such a shock for a lot of Europeans. We’re just not used to seeing the life of the Americans you refer to and their views.

[JackLadd]

5 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Bernie Sanders would have crushed Trump under his shoe in this election. Every poll showed it, and he was the only one to consistently call him exactly what he is: A racist, fascist piece of human garbage.

 

The Dems were more concerned about beating Bernie and crushing the actual left in this country, which represents a massive block of voiceless folk, than they were about getting Trump out of office, and that is why we are seeing these results now.

 

 

It was the more conservative black vote in the primaries that won it for Biden. Hopefully Trump is done and we can breathe a collective sigh of relief. That's all I care about.

[Justin Z]

Just now, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

**** knows how the left (whose ideas I believe in by the way) manage to penetrate the people who not only vote for Trump but unbelievably voted for him this time and not the last time. I'd love it to be Cortez in a few years but that's probably a fantasy. 

 

The thing is, most of the available votes out there aren't to be won from political junkies, they're won from the kind of voters that are voting Trump just because he's an outsider, not because they're true believers. The exact kind of folk who would've voted for Sanders because he's an outsider and not an arsehole.

 

Sanders would have won purely on peeling votes off Trump alone. Biden hasn't peeled any votes off anybody, and as I was laughing about earlier, he lost Florida because his campaign both did zero Latino outreach (believing they didn't need to) and because of what you referred to above with him being branded a socialist, and Cuban-Americans by and large think anyone to the left of Hitler is Castro, it's ridiculous.

 

Sanders would have won Florida by at least two percentage points because he'd have also gotten no Cuban-Americans, but he'd have gotten other Latino groups, as well as a progressive turnout at least a quarter greater than what it was for Biden.

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, King prawn said:

I’d love to know how you know but it would make sense  The rest of your post is worrying to read but perhaps explains why it’s such a shock for a lot of Europeans. We’re just not used to seeing the life of the Americans you refer to and their views.

 

He's posted on religion before.

 

This may also be the source of his name: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_course

[King prawn]

Just now, redjambo said:

 

He's posted on religion before.

 

This may also be the source of his name: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_course

There was me thinking he liked the Italian cars

[Justin Z]

1 minute ago, JackLadd said:

 

 

It was the more conservative black vote in the primaries that won it for Biden. Hopefully Trump is done and we can breathe a collective sigh of relief. That's all I care about.

 

No, it was the Democrats litigating that they're allowed to rig their primaries, and Barack Obama convincing everyone except Elizabeth Warren to drop out before Super Tuesday, splitting the progressive vote.

 

The entire thing was bent, for the second election cycle in a row. And then the Democrats have the cheek to complain about Republicans suppressing the vote and undermining Democracy (while they go to court to get the Greens thrown off ballots in multiple states).

[SwindonJambo]

Interestingly despite being 11.5% behind in the polls, the Dems are bookies' favourites to take Pennsylvania. 25% of votes still to be counted, presumably mostly postal.

 

https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/us-politics/presidential-state-winner/pennsylvania

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

30 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

(again)

 

Donald where's yer diapers. 

[Kalamazoo Jambo]

8 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

Bernie Sanders would have crushed Trump under his shoe in this election. Every poll showed it, and he was the only one to consistently call him exactly what he is: A racist, fascist piece of human garbage.

 

 

Quite seriously, could you show me some polls that said that he'd do significantly better than Biden against Trump? They may be out there but I don't recall seeing them. RCP National Average for Sanders v Trump (mainly from March/April 2020) was Sanders +4.2 nationally.

[Justin Z]

I am reading that based on exit polling, the Black male vote for Trump increased from 13% to 18% from 2016 to 2020. Black female vote, 4% to 8%.

 

Black turnout seems to be down, so that means that what's supposed to be a major base of the Dem vote just didn't show up, and what reason did they have to? If it is not 100% a sign that the Democrats offered absolutely nothing to make people want to vote for them, I don't know what is.

[JackLadd]

1 minute ago, Kalamazoo Jambo said:

 

Quite seriously, could you show me some polls that said that he'd do significantly better than Biden against Trump? They may be out there but I don't recall seeing them. RCP National Average for Sanders v Trump (mainly from March/April 2020) was Sanders +4.2 nationally.

 

Why would a Trumpist vote for Sanders switching from unhinged populist to Social Democrat? A bit of a leap. 

[Justin Z]

1 minute ago, Kalamazoo Jambo said:

 

Quite seriously, could you show me some polls that said that he'd do significantly better than Biden against Trump? They may be out there but I don't recall seeing them. RCP National Average for Sanders v Trump (mainly from March/April 2020) was Sanders +4.2 nationally.

 

They stopped polling that question after he dropped out of the primaries, and before the pandemic got completely into full swing.

 

He was always showing a better margin over Trump than Biden while he was in the polling discussion, by a point or two usually, sometimes as many as five. Add to that the developing pandemic, his support for Medicare-for-All in that pandemic, and debates where he would have embarrassed the daylights out of Trump, and that his energy index was light years ahead of Biden's (i.e. inducing people to actually get out and cast a vote), is why I conclude this.

[Justin Z]

1 minute ago, JackLadd said:

 

Why would a Trumpist vote for Sanders switching from unhinged populist to Social Democrat? A bit of a leap. 

 

15 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

The thing is, most of the available votes out there aren't to be won from political junkies, they're won from the kind of voters that are voting Trump just because he's an outsider, not because they're true believers. The exact kind of folk who would've voted for Sanders because he's an outsider and not an arsehole.

 

[Kalamazoo Jambo]

7 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

No, it was the Democrats litigating that they're allowed to rig their primaries, and Barack Obama convincing everyone except Elizabeth Warren to drop out before Super Tuesday, splitting the progressive vote.

 

The entire thing was bent, for the second election cycle in a row. And then the Democrats have the cheek to complain about Republicans suppressing the vote and undermining Democracy (while they go to court to get the Greens thrown off ballots in multiple states).

 

The primaries weren't rigged. People made strategic choices.

You were mad at Warren for NOT dropping out.

You were mad at Centrist Democrats FOR dropping out.

You can't have that both ways, especially when you've also claimed that Warren wasn't a progressive (yes, she is).

You failed to account for the fact that Bernie Sanders made bad choices in who he had around him in his inner circle.

You failed to account for the fact that Bernie Sanders' people managed to piss off Warren and her supporters because they had no interest in building a bigger tent.

 

I would have still voted for Bernie in over Trump in a millisecond.

[Kalamazoo Jambo]

7 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

Why would a Trumpist vote for Sanders switching from unhinged populist to Social Democrat? A bit of a leap. 

 

I'm sure some would as there are a lot of low-information voters who just want a 'change agent'. But I don't see any real evidence that Bernie would have done better than Biden. At this point it's basically 'unknowable'.

[redjambo]

Biden edges ahead in Michigan.

[Sharpie]

Just got up after an excellent nights sleep. So what is surprising to anyone. We have two men competing for what is rated as the top leadership role in the World. One is a liar, adulterer, tax cheat, opportunist, the other is an old man, I am one and know smart and all as I was a number of years ago, the abilities subside. Biden was a choice because the Democrats have failed miserably because they have made no effort to groom a suitable young person, in this thread there are those who mention the other old Democrat Bernie who is becoming best known for his usefulness for late night hosts jokes.

Whomever wins this farcical situation the United States will become a foil to the leaders of the World, there is already film of leaders laughing at Trump at meetings in Europe. There is a piece of music, Don't Cry For Me Argentina, well I am thinking there should be a new piece, Do Cry For Me America. What a sad situation for people like myself who always looked at USA, as the big brother when things became desperate, I don't see that continue.