***Heart of Midlothian v Dundee - Official Match Thread***

[Saint Jambo]

If Mitchell can't get in the side on Wednesday at home against the team bottom of the league, with one of our main left-sided players out, then if I was him I'd be looking to cancel my loan for the rest of the seaon and try to get a loan elsewhere. I'd rather we play him than go with a more central player on the left, which I think unbalances us and leads to us being too narrow. Naismith is good enough to make coming in from the left work. But without him and against a team that is likely to sit in, the width will be important in stretching the game.

[Mr Elwood P]

6 hours ago, Saint Jambo said:

If Mitchell can't get in the side on Wednesday at home against the team bottom of the league, with one of our main left-sided players out, then if I was him I'd be looking to cancel my loan for the rest of the seaon and try to get a loan elsewhere. I'd rather we play him than go with a more central player on the left, which I think unbalances us and leads to us being too narrow. Naismith is good enough to make coming in from the left work. But without him and against a team that is likely to sit in, the width will be important in stretching the game.

 

Who’s out?

[1971fozzy]

6 hours ago, Saint Jambo said:

If Mitchell can't get in the side on Wednesday at home against the team bottom of the league, with one of our main left-sided players out, then if I was him I'd be looking to cancel my loan for the rest of the seaon and try to get a loan elsewhere. I'd rather we play him than go with a more central player on the left, which I think unbalances us and leads to us being too narrow. Naismith is good enough to make coming in from the left work. But without him and against a team that is likely to sit in, the width will be important in stretching the game.

 

Spot on

[gashauskis9]

36 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

Who’s out?

Think they’re referring to Naismith being out (looked like he was playing wide left on Sunday).

[Bazzas right boot]

7 hours ago, Saint Jambo said:

If Mitchell can't get in the side on Wednesday at home against the team bottom of the league, with one of our main left-sided players out, then if I was him I'd be looking to cancel my loan for the rest of the seaon and try to get a loan elsewhere. I'd rather we play him than go with a more central player on the left, which I think unbalances us and leads to us being too narrow. Naismith is good enough to make coming in from the left work. But without him and against a team that is likely to sit in, the width will be important in stretching the game.

 

 

Yip. 

[Taffin]

8 hours ago, Jambof3tornado said:

I'd sooner see Mulraney get some of the game time morrison appears to be wasting. Same mistakes time after time.

 

 

I think he has plenty of time to become a good player and I love how direct he is but I'd like him to get that game time on loan. I agree, I'd like you see Mulraney get more time on the pitch.

 

I've seen Morrison be compared to Billy King as if it is a bad thing. If Morrison could add the same sort of end product King had then he'd be a great player for us 

[jambojapp]

8 hours ago, Jim Weir said:

Not sure it's wasted game time. I really do sometimes feel people overlook that Morrison has only played around 20 first team games for us. He may need to go out on loan again depending on what happens in the summer. Meantime he's getting valuable experience 

 

His lack of end product is a concern. But he's still young and his work rate is first class. He might not ultimately be the answer, but I still wouldn't consider him to be wasting his opportunity 

 

He's only 19. Not 20 until July 

He put two on a plate for Naismith against livi, when available he needs to play. 

[Doomgoose]

Bear in mind Morrison is still 19 - he's surrounded by some of the best pros in Scotland and will come good, this is his breakthrough season but it's next season we'll see him really kick on.

 

Putting him out on loan would be madness as we always look a threat when he drives down the right. Yes, his decision making is poor but that's something which comes with experience. His constant harrassment down the right troubles defenders and will allow other players to find space elsewhere.

 

Him and Smith seem to have the start of a decent relationship, not perfect but you can see there's something there.

[Mr Elwood P]

43 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

 

I think he has plenty of time to become a good player and I love how direct he is but I'd like him to get that game time on loan. I agree, I'd like you see Mulraney get more time on the pitch.

 

I've seen Morrison be compared to Billy King as if it is a bad thing. If Morrison could add the same sort of end product King had then he'd be a great player for us 

 

If we were still playing in the Championship then Morrison most likely would have the same end product as Billy King. He’s done it at Stirling Albion after a season to settle in, I think he can replicate that with us.

 

1 hour ago, Gashauskis9 said:

Think they’re referring to Naismith being out (looked like he was playing wide left on Sunday).

 

Bizarre. Would never have thought Mitchell for Naismith. Mitchell is byline and cross or shoot from distance, Naismith drifts all over the park but has the gift of popping up six yards away from goal and either scoring or setting up a teammate. Completely different types of player to me.

[Jambof3tornado]

11 minutes ago, Doomgoose said:

Bear in mind Morrison is still 19 - he's surrounded by some of the best pros in Scotland and will come good, this is his breakthrough season but it's next season we'll see him really kick on.

 

Putting him out on loan would be madness as we always look a threat when he drives down the right. Yes, his decision making is poor but that's something which comes with experience. His constant harrassment down the right troubles defenders and will allow other players to find space elsewhere.

 

Him and Smith seem to have the start of a decent relationship, not perfect but you can see there's something there.

Smith was going absolutely daft at Callumn at times when he failed to move for a pass. Without a regular final ball in the other things he does are overlooked but he's been making the same mistake for the 12 years plus I've been watching him(local lad to me and a friend of a friend, junior also played against him), and that is going back to beat a man a 2nd time when he already skinned him!!!

[Nookie Bear]

Sending Morrison out on loan would be hugely detrimental to his development, but he could do with some competition that ill allow him to perhaps come on for the final 20 minutes when the games are more stretched.

[Debut 4]

23 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

Smith was going absolutely daft at Callumn at times when he failed to move for a pass. Without a regular final ball in the other things he does are overlooked but he's been making the same mistake for the 12 years plus I've been watching him(local lad to me and a friend of a friend, junior also played against him), and that is going back to beat a man a 2nd time when he already skinned him!!!

I think Smith doesn’t overlap enough. I’m not saying it’s his fault that Morrison has weaknesses but in respect of how we play he always holds his ground for a pass backwards.  

 

He’d help Morrison if he went on his outside at times and pulled people away to open up more space for him. 

 

Again, im not sure if that’s an instruction or just reluctance on the players part?

[wavydavy]

54 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

Sending Morrison out on loan would be hugely detrimental to his development, but he could do with some competition that ill allow him to perhaps come on for the final 20 minutes when the games are more stretched.

 

I disagree and think he needs to learn more about movement and when to release the ball. People go on about him having pace but I am not so sure as he hardly ever goes beyond a fullback. He tends to either cut inside or stop and go backwards or sideways and sometimes just runs into lots of traffic and gives the ball away.

 

I think he is a long way off being the finished article and would benefit from a loan period but we don't really have any other options other than Mulraney and Morrison seems to be ahead of him at the moment so it probably won't happen.

[wavydavy]

54 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

I think Smith doesn’t overlap enough. I’m not saying it’s his fault that Morrison has weaknesses but in respect of how we play he always holds his ground for a pass backwards.  

 

He’d help Morrison if he went on his outside at times and pulled people away to open up more space for him. 

 

Again, im not sure if that’s an instruction or just reluctance on the players part?

 

I agree but then we don't know what they are being told by the coaches.

[RudiHMFC]

I'd like to see Keena start up top with Vanecek, give him a chance to see what he can do.

[Jambof3tornado]

4 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

I disagree and think he needs to learn more about movement and when to release the ball. People go on about him having pace but I am not so sure as he hardly ever goes beyond a fullback. He tends to either cut inside or stop and go backwards or sideways and sometimes just runs into lots of traffic and gives the ball away.

 

I think he is a long way off being the finished article and would benefit from a loan period but we don't really have any other options other than Mulraney and Morrison seems to be ahead of him at the moment so it probably won't happen.

I prefer the look of mulraney but dont think he's getting enough of a chance. 4 minutes at the end of the cup tie when callumn had been mostly ineffective isnt enough.

[davemclaren]

17 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

I prefer the look of mulraney but dont think he's getting enough of a chance. 4 minutes at the end of the cup tie when callumn had been mostly ineffective isnt enough.

I agree that Morrison’s end product is, currently, poor but he’s exciting to watch and can beat players. I don’t really see that Mulraney gives us anything better though. 

[Rudy T]

The lad Shaughnessy can play midfield he may step in there into the Harring role, Dicamona back into defence and Djoum moving up. 

[Cruyff Turn]

Morrison is a good player, he works hard, tracks back, he’s quick, he can beat his man, he’s just a bit raw that’s all. He needs to develop his decision making and work on his final ball, get his head up and look for the pass or cross instead of just belting it in with his head down. Still a young laddie, if he’s still making the same choices a couple of years down the line then fair enough, he won’t be here much longer. 

That chance he had as well, an absolute sitter and he lacked the composure just to stay calm and pick his spot or square it for David to tap in. 

Confident he’ll improve though, he’s got the right attitude. 

[Debut 4]

8 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said:

Morrison is a good player, he works hard, tracks back, he’s quick, he can beat his man, he’s just a bit raw that’s all. He needs to develop his decision making and work on his final ball, get his head up and look for the pass or cross instead of just belting it in with his head down. Still a young laddie, if he’s still making the same choices a couple of years down the line then fair enough, he won’t be here much longer. 

That chance he had as well, an absolute sitter and he lacked the composure just to stay calm and pick his spot or square it for David to tap in. 

Confident he’ll improve though, he’s got the right attitude. 

Agree. People want nit pick at his quiet games but you can equally nit pick at his good ones which shows you exactly where he is.

 

We can think back to fine attacking  displays , one in particular the Motherwell cup match. 

 

He grew with the atmosphere and energy of the tie which was end to end. A lot of good crosses and beat his marker numerous times. 

 

Did miss a great chance with a weak finish but actually should’ve squared it. But that’s where he is.

 

An inconsistent young lad but has shown he’s definitely got something. 

Edited January 22, 2019 by Debut 4

[maroon]

Morrison to score his first goal tomorrow and kick on. dundee without kamara the only football player in that side

[Homme]

I didn't know this game was tomorrow. Wondered why the match thread was so early.

[Thomaso]

1 hour ago, Rudy T said:

The lad Shaughnessy can play midfield he may step in there into the Harring role, Dicamona back into defence and Djoum moving up. 

 

This for me!

[Haken]

2 hours ago, davemclaren said:

I agree that Morrison’s end product is, currently, poor but he’s exciting to watch and can beat players. I don’t really see that Mulraney gives us anything better though. 

This is where I am.  The impression I get is that Morrison knows it's his job to get the ball down the line and fire in a cross.  He usually manages the first bit, but struggles with the second, where he will either try to beat his man again (kind of greedy kid at school fashion) or stick in a ball without really checking to see where that ball hsould go.

 

I think he's an exciting young player, and potentially a very good player.  But if he's big enough to play, then he should be big enough to take a rollicking from his team mates if required.

[Harry Potter]

2 hours ago, davemclaren said:

I agree that Morrison’s end product is, currently, poor but he’s exciting to watch and can beat players. I don’t really see that Mulraney gives us anything better though. 

I think Morrison will destroy dundees defence if he plays.

[wavydavy]

2 hours ago, davemclaren said:

I agree that Morrison’s end product is, currently, poor but he’s exciting to watch and can beat players. I don’t really see that Mulraney gives us anything better though. 

 

It would help his game more if we tried to pass the ball in behind defenders for him to run onto rather than having his back to them as is often the case.

Edited January 22, 2019 by wavydavy

[Hearts007]

couple of goals and a clean sheet will do

[Say What Again]

20 hours ago, kila said:

                                     Doyle

 

Smith     Shaughnessy       Berra         Garuccio

 

              Lee              Bozanic         Djoum

 

             Clare            Vanecek       Mitchell

 

 

 

 

 

Mine exactly.

 

[Pasquale for King]

4 hours ago, Debut 4 said:

I think Smith doesn’t overlap enough. I’m not saying it’s his fault that Morrison has weaknesses but in respect of how we play he always holds his ground for a pass backwards.  

 

He’d help Morrison if he went on his outside at times and pulled people away to open up more space for him. 

 

Again, im not sure if that’s an instruction or just reluctance on the players part?

It’s a fair point, it’s probably because Smith can’t cross either but doesn’t get slated for it. He hit three awful crosses on Sunday, Morrison created a few chances with his but had a few poor ones too.

It definitely affects the winger who they have playing behind them, remember Miko and Chesney were better on the left? If you have Fyssas behind you as opposed to Neilson, who Smith reminds me off in most aspects of his game. 

[NaturalOrder74]

They are really awful, great chance to get a good few goals at home should be a better game than Livingston I reckon

[Thomaso]

1 hour ago, Debut 4 said:

Agree. People want nit pick at his quiet games but you can equally nit pick at his good ones which shows you exactly where he is.

 

We can think back to fine attacking  displays , one in particular the Motherwell cup match. 

 

He grew with the atmosphere and energy of the tie which was end to end. A lot of good crosses and beat his marker numerous times. 

 

Did miss a great chance with a weak finish but actually should’ve squared it. But that’s where he is.

 

An inconsistent young lad but has shown he’s definitely got something. 

 

Totally agree - he does tend to get a nose bleed in front of goal, but the lad has a talent that needs nurturing.

[Thomaso]

2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

It’s a fair point, it’s probably because Smith can’t cross either but doesn’t get slated for it. He hit three awful crosses on Sunday, Morrison created a few chances with his but had a few poor ones too.

It definitely affects the winger who they have playing behind them, remember Miko and Chesney were better on the left? If you have Fyssas behind you as opposed to Neilson, who Smith reminds me off in most aspects of his game. 

 

As a footballer Smith is head and shoulders above Neilson.

[Pasquale for King]

Just now, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

 

As a footballer Smith is head and shoulders above Neilson.

In what ways? Can’t pass/cross/throw/head/tackle the ball? Has a better shot, just. Drops off and plays people onside, slows the game down, goes back constantly with passes and throws. Reads the game well at sweeper and can play anywhere, averagely. Just don’t get the love in with the guy.

[Thomaso]

Just now, Pasquale for King said:

In what ways? Can’t pass/cross/throw/head/tackle the ball? Has a better shot, just. Drops off and plays people onside, slows the game down, goes back constantly with passes and throws. Reads the game well at sweeper and can play anywhere, averagely. Just don’t get the love in with the guy.

 

He can't "throw"???? Are you kidding!

As for can't "tackle" you must be joking!

He also wins more than his fair share of headers when he has played centre back.

Smith has been outstanding in more than a few games this season.

[Pasquale for King]

8 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

 

He can't "throw"???? Are you kidding!

As for can't "tackle" you must be joking!

He also wins more than his fair share of headers when he has played centre back.

Smith has been outstanding in more than a few games this season.

His throws barely get into the box ffs, there’s a thread on here about how awful his throws are and that they should actually stop him from taking them. He’s reluctant to tackle and said himself he’s poor in the air. Several times eh, out of 25 games wow what a player.

Bang average 6 out of 10 player that managers love but don’t actually improve the team, we’ve had hundreds of them in my time. Glad you agree that he can’t pass or cross though.

Edited January 22, 2019 by Pasquale for King

[Debut 4]

25 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

It’s a fair point, it’s probably because Smith can’t cross either but doesn’t get slated for it. He hit three awful crosses on Sunday, Morrison created a few chances with his but had a few poor ones too.

It definitely affects the winger who they have playing behind them, remember Miko and Chesney were better on the left? If you have Fyssas behind you as opposed to Neilson, who Smith reminds me off in most aspects of his game. 

Yip. 

 

Smith has looked better when he’s filled in at centre back. 

 

I just think hes too careful , if that makes sense, in possession.

 

Maybe options aren’t there all the time to play instantly but quite a lot you see him stride onto a pass played out to him and he just takes that second or two too long to play it. 

 

 

[Saint Jambo]

4 hours ago, Mr Elwood P said:

Bizarre. Would never have thought Mitchell for Naismith. Mitchell is byline and cross or shoot from distance, Naismith drifts all over the park but has the gift of popping up six yards away from goal and either scoring or setting up a teammate. Completely different types of player to me.

 

This is pretty much exactly the point I was making. If we start by looking at how we played on Sunday focusing on left midfield, Naismith lined up on the left at goal kicks, when the keeper had the ball and when defending. He'd then drift in from the left as play progressed and was as always involved in lots of the good stuff we did creatively, often driving that through the middle. The impact of him coming in from the left is to narrow our play on that side, leaving us with no quick out ball into the left wing, especially obvious when compared to our out ball on the right wing with Morrison. Our way of getting up the left wing on Sunday generally relied on getting Garuccio up which slowed things down and meant we were attacking from in front of the back line on the left, rather than getting in behind. I think most of us would agree the positives that Naismith brings from his creativity, drive and threat when he comes inside far outweigh the negatives of narrowing are play.

 

With Naismith missing, you then look at who would replace him to fulfil a similar role. We have played Djoum on the left and Bozanic would also be an option. My view would be that no one else in the squad even comes close to doing that role on the left as effectively as Naismith. At that point the balance changes and the negatives of narrowing our play outweigh the benefits of having a player coming in off the left. I think this is especially true looking ahead to a game against a team that will sit in and defend. So instead we consider other options on the left that change our style of play a little, whilst leaving most of our team settled (an alternative option is to change the system completely). For me the most obvious alternative option for left midfield is to play Mitchell. He won't cut in nearly as much, which might actually leave more space for Lee, Clare and Djoum to make more of a creative impact. Instead he will give us extra width and drive down the left, giving us the opportunity to get in behind the defence on that side and generally balancing up our play.

 

Tl;dr: Agree with you. They are very different players, and the team will play differently as a result if you switch them, but of all the players you could replace Naismith with whilst leaving the rest of the team unchanged, Mitchell is my preferred option.

[Thomaso]

7 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

His throws barely get into the box ffs, there’s a thread on here about how awful his throws are and that they should actually stop him from taking them. He’s reluctant to tackle and said himself he’s poor in the air. Several times eh, out of 25 games wow what a player.

Bang average 6 out of 10 player that managers love but don’t actually improve the team, we’ve had hundreds of them in my time. Glad you agree that he can’t pass or cross though.

 

I'm agreeing with nothing of the sort.

 

His throws regularly get to the six yard line for a start. I think you'll find the thread on here was having a go at the tactic of throwing the ball into the box - not Smith's actual throwing!

 

Give me a link where he said he was poor in the air.

 

CL obviously loves him as he's given him an extended contract - and has he not been capped for NI this season???

[Pasquale for King]

9 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

Yip. 

 

Smith has looked better when he’s filled in at centre back. 

 

I just think hes too careful , if that makes sense, in possession.

 

Maybe options aren’t there all the time to play instantly but quite a lot you see him stride onto a pass played out to him and he just takes that second or two too long to play it. 

 

 

Or turn back inside, slows our whole attack down.

[colinmaroon]

15 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

His throws barely get into the box ffs, there’s a thread on here about how awful his throws are and that they should actually stop him from taking them. He’s reluctant to tackle and said himself he’s poor in the air. Several times eh, out of 25 games wow what a player.

Bang average 6 out of 10 player that managers love but don’t actually improve the team, we’ve had hundreds of them in my time. Glad you agree that he can’t pass or cross though.

 

 

After a great deal of careful consideration as to the general tenet of your post, I can't help but come to the conclusion that it is utter mince.

 

 

[ri Alban]

3 minutes ago, colinmaroon said:

 

 

After a great deal of careful consideration as to the general tenet of your post, I can't help but come to the conclusion that it is utter mince.

 

 

This!

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

I'm pretty glad we have a low maintenance, versatile, team player in Michael Smith. No superstar but a vital member of our squad

[Thomaso]

4 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

I'm pretty glad we have a low maintenance, versatile, team player in Michael Smith. No superstar but a vital member of our squad

 

EXACTLY!

[letsalldothebeattie]

Didn’t actually realise Naisy was suspended for this game feel stupid saying earlier he would score tomorrow. 

[Pasquale for King]

3 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

 

I'm agreeing with nothing of the sort.

 

His throws regularly get to the six yard line for a start. I think you'll find the thread on here was having a go at the tactic of throwing the ball into the box - not Smith's actual throwing!

 

Give me a link where he said he was poor in the air.

 

CL obviously loves him as he's given him an extended contract - and has he not been capped for NI this season???

Loves him? Caps for NI ffs they’re one of the worst teams going around, Burns is in their squad and hes played 10 minutes for us. Sammon has 9 caps for a better Irish team, what does that show ??‍♂️? He said it was great playing beside Berra and Dikamona because they win the headers which isn’t his strong point. The thread was equally about how pour his throw is and how nothing is achieved from it. They struggle to get to the 6 yard line I’m afraid and the goalie rarely needs to deal with it. He didn’t do it on Sunday as Livis back line is huge.

[Pasquale for King]

17 minutes ago, colinmaroon said:

 

 

After a great deal of careful consideration as to the general tenet of your post, I can't help but come to the conclusion that it is utter mince.

 

 

Insightful, pick a hole in it? Tell me what Smith does well?

[Pasquale for King]

6 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

 

EXACTLY!

Squad player, we agree on that then ?

[Thomaso]

3 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Squad player, we agree on that then ?

 

Where did I say he was a superstar????

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

 

Where did I say he was a superstar????

You didn’t, but you still defend him. Can you name anything hea actually a stand out at? If you’ve supported Hearts as long as your name suggests, Jim was my first hero,you will know we’ve had a long line of average right backs.

[Pasquale for King]

Bozanic in for Naisy and Djoum further forward should be the only change.