Orange marches this Saturday

[MacDonald Jardine]

PJ1

 

I don't profess to understand the orange order or have any intimate knowledge of the order or indeed the freemasons. I made the point that the members and legitimate marchers end up being tarred with the brush of those that watch 'rangers taps' and all. The legitimacy and reasoning for the march is usually lost in the nonsense that accompanies the marches.

 

No you didn't.

You suggested that the organisers and marchers knew nothing about the reasons they were supposedly marching for.

That also implied you know more.

Your last post is one big climbdown.

[The Mighty Thor]

No you didn't.

You suggested that the organisers and marchers knew nothing about the reasons they were supposedly marching for.

That also implied you know more.

Your last post is one big climbdown.

 

No i didn't.

 

What i said was;

 

if the marchers, the organisers or attendees knew a quarter of what it was all about i would have no issues with it. (i've already stated i don't anyhow)

 

My knowledge of the history of this subject and my country is reasonably good. Probably better than most that get uptight about it all on here.

 

At no point did i suggest that i know more. I have always freely admitted i know nothing of the workings of the orange order. I have no desire to either.

 

My post is a climbdown in what respect? What's your contribution to the debate?

[MacDonald Jardine]

No i didn't.

 

What i said was;

 

if the marchers, the organisers or attendees knew a quarter of what it was all about i would have no issues with it. (i've already stated i don't anyhow)

 

My knowledge of the history of this subject and my country is reasonably good. Probably better than most that get uptight about it all on here.

 

At no point did i suggest that i know more. I have always freely admitted i know nothing of the workings of the orange order. I have no desire to either.

 

My post is a climbdown in what respect? What's your contribution to the debate?

 

You suggest marchers and organisers don't even know a quarter of what it was all about.

You suggest your knowledge is "probably better than most who get uptight about it on here".

 

When challenged you say what you really meant was "the members and legitimate marchers end up being tarred with the brush of those that watch 'rangers taps' and all".

 

That's not a climbdown?

 

My contribution is picking up on ill informed garbage like that.

[The Mighty Thor]

You suggest marchers and organisers don't even know a quarter of what it was all about.

You suggest your knowledge is "probably better than most who get uptight about it on here".

 

When challenged you say what you really meant was "the members and legitimate marchers end up being tarred with the brush of those that watch 'rangers taps' and all".

 

That's not a climbdown?

 

My contribution is picking up on ill informed garbage like that.

 

OK smartarse.

 

Perhaps my initial point was ill put. You'd be lucky if a quarter of those who attend a march knew what it was all about.

 

Your contribution is roughly about the same as those 'rangers tap' wearing types that go watch these marches. Standing at the sidelines not really sure why they're there, but chipping in anyway.

[carjam]

There are two scheduled for this Saturday. One in Leith, and one later in town after a larger one in Grangemouth (I think).

 

The main problem with such events is the wee bams who follow along the side.

 

Personally I have no problem with the march. Actually, I enjoy the music. However, it is the presence of the drunken idiots with Rangers tops on who have no knowledge of what they are saying/singing/gesturing that angers me.

An absolute blessing i'm on the other side of the world when this drivle's going on. WHY WOULD YOU BOTHER ?!

[Toggie88]

I did answer, there is a march as there is a demand for it to celebrate and commemorate the cause in which the army of William fought for.

 

Jesus wasn't born and crucified in Scotland, God's never walked down Princes Street. Should we ban Christmas? Not a chance.

 

These events have had a knock on effect to our society so there will be people who want to celebrate a whole number of occassions.

 

Christmas and other Religous events are completely different. They celebrate a belief in a greater being - if you want to get pedantic; God is everwhere, so yes he is walking down Princes Street as we speak.

 

What was the cause William of Orange was fighting for?

[Jambo83]

Toggie displays the stereotypical behaviour of the Right On Brigade.

 

Rather than consider the reasons for, and context of, the march he simply jumps right in with a pre-programmed response and brands the Orange Order bigots because that's what his fellow hand-wringers expect.

 

It's rather ironic that it's Toggie himself that displays bigoted behaviour due to his entrenched, inflexible and ludicrous views.

 

You can turn that opening sentence round, insert your name instead of Toggie, and change Right On Brigade to Hunnish Brigade....

 

Regardless of how you dress up your posts there is no escaping your beliefs / allegiances and your defence of everything orange / british / chelsea / hunnish....

 

Go on, bite

[Toggie88]

Mate, you have a major chip on your shoulder here.

 

It's very disappointing.

 

If wanting to rid Scotland of bigotry and intolerance is a chip. I have a massive one.

 

I'm more disappointed about the bigotry apologists on here, who give our club a bad name.

 

I stand by my comment. Orange marches, and indeed Republican marches do nothing but add fuel to the great fire of bigotry that exists in this country. Another big contributor to the fire is Old Firm fans, and a minority of other fans - something which has happened due to the impressionable younger enthusiastic fans, who have been sucked in. The majority don't have a clue what it's about, the majority on here who are 'Rangers-minded' will have no clue what it's about - it's all rather depressing.

[Toggie88]

that seems a wee bit bigoted to me.

 

What's bigoted about it? I have just as big a problem with Irish Republican marches (as previously stated).

[Toggie88]

Toggie displays the stereotypical behaviour of the Right On Brigade.

 

Rather than consider the reasons for, and context of, the march he simply jumps right in with a pre-programmed response and brands the Orange Order bigots because that's what his fellow hand-wringers expect.

 

It's rather ironic that it's Toggie himself that displays bigoted behaviour due to his entrenched, inflexible and ludicrous views.

 

What are the reasons for and the context of this march?

 

There is no point in pointing the bigotry finger on here, Therapist. Everyone knows who the bigots are already.

 

Now, what are my ludicrous views, Therapist? I have a suspicision they are luducricous simply because you have opposing views.

[Toggie88]

You would have to be pretty sad to go on a march to commemorate someone from hundreds of years ago. Move on. If Both the Orange marches and the Republican marches have no place in Scotland then neither should anti English racist guff like marching to Bannockburn.

 

Bannockbrun has got nothing to do with anything Anti-English.

 

I suspect you are either; a)Fishing for an argument b)A Unionist who has no other argument so continues to march on with the anti-English stuff, in the hope someone else will believe c) You just don't know what Bannockburn is.

 

I Hope it's C.

[Toggie88]

You can turn that opening sentence round, insert your name instead of Toggie, and change Right On Brigade to Hunnish Brigade....

 

Regardless of how you dress up your posts there is no escaping your beliefs / allegiances and your defence of everything orange / british / chelsea / hunnish....

 

Go on, bite

 

100% Agree.

 

It's common knowledge on the board.

[Commander Harris]

What's bigoted about it? I have just as big a problem with Irish Republican marches (as previously stated).

 

You are making sweeping statements about people you do not know and have not met saying that they are all bigots. That to me seems rather intollerant, prejudiced and therefore bigoted. bigoted doesn't necessarily mean favouring one side or t'other.

 

"Every march by the Orange Order is nothing but a bunch of bigots dressing in up in colourful sashes; parade about the place in bowler hats; and promote bigotry."

[H.A.N.S]

Christmas and other Religous events are completely different. They celebrate a belief in a greater being - if you want to get pedantic; God is everwhere, so yes he is walking down Princes Street as we speak.

 

What was the cause William of Orange was fighting for?[/QUOTE]

 

Now if I was marching and didn't know the answer to this question I'd take your point but what difference does me knowing make? I don't march.

 

These people march (and I know a few) because of what the want to celebrate and commemorate. There are people who believe in this cause so there is a march, it really is simple. I don't know how many times you want me to write it because you can't seem to take this in.

[Toggie88]

You are making sweeping statements about people you do not know and have not met saying that they are all bigots. That to me seems rather intollerant, prejudiced and therefore bigoted. bigoted doesn't necessarily mean favouring one side or t'other.

 

Okay, it may be generalising - but it's not bigoted.

 

I based that comment on my own personal expierence. I've yet to meet/talk to anyone who supports these marches or actually marches, who is not bigoted.

 

I'm not being prejudiced against any religion = nothing bigoted about it.

[Toggie88]

Christmas and other Religous events are completely different. They celebrate a belief in a greater being - if you want to get pedantic; God is everwhere' date=' so yes he is walking down Princes Street as we speak.

 

[b']What was the cause William of Orange was fighting for?[/[/b]QUOTE]

 

Now if I was marching and didn't know the answer to this question I'd take your point but what difference does me knowing make? I don't march.

 

These people march (and I know a few) because of what the want to celebrate and commemorate. There are people who believe in this cause so there is a march, it really is simple. I don't know how many times you want me to write it because you can't seem to take this in.

 

So you are defending these people purely because they are marching for something they believe in...but you don't have a clue what it is they believe in? That makes no sense what so ever.

 

Do you agree with pro-nazi organisations? They are marching for what they believe in.

[Commander Harris]

Okay, it may be generalising - but it's not bigoted.

 

I based that comment on my own personal expierence. I've yet to meet/talk to anyone who supports these marches or actually marches, who is not bigoted.

 

I'm not being prejudiced against any religion = nothing bigoted about it.

I think our confusion is over the word "bigoted". I'm not suggesting you are a religious bigot, i.e. "prejudiced against any religion", I just think that generalisations like the one you made are intollerant and prejudiced and therefore bigoted in that sense.

FWIW I have no interest in any such march, Orange or otherwise, but I'm not going to label all Orangemen bigots as that seems to me a rather intollerant position to hold.

[Therapist]

Toggie is raging. I bet he is typing so hard his keyboard has broken.

 

[Boris]

These people march (and I know a few) because of what the want to celebrate and commemorate. There are people who believe in this cause so there is a march, it really is simple. I don't know how many times you want me to write it because you can't seem to take this in.

 

So you would have no objections to the James Connolly Society marching either on the same logic as above.

 

Which is fair enough.

 

Personally, I think they should be allowed to march, however if there are civil disturbances that follow on from any march then the Police should have the ability to say, "sorry, no march as it is a liable to result in a breach of the peace".

 

Bit of a catch all at the end, but hey...

[Toggie88]

I think our confusion is over the word "bigoted". I'm not suggesting you are a religious bigot, i.e. "prejudiced against any religion", I just think that generalisations like the one you made are intollerant and prejudiced and therefore bigoted in that sense.

FWIW I have no interest in any such march, Orange or otherwise, but I'm not going to label all Orangemen bigots as that seems to me a rather intollerant position to hold.

 

Bigotted is not being intollerant of others views.

 

If that were the case we'd all be bigots. I'm intollerate of religious bigotry, neo-nazis and the KKK...you can't say that's bigotry.

 

There me some orangemen who are not bigots, I'm just saying that I am yet to have contact with any of them.

[Toggie88]

Toggie is raging. I bet he is typing so hard his keyboard has broken.

 

I rather composed actually, Therapist.

Just had some Spaghetti Bolognaise for lunch which was pretty good.

[H.A.N.S]

 

So you are defending these people purely because they are marching for something they believe in...but you don't have a clue what it is they believe in? That makes no sense what so ever.

 

Do you agree with pro-nazi organisations? They are marching for what they believe in.

 

I do know what they believe in and even if I didn't I could easily google it and pass it off to you.

 

As I said in previous posts if they want to do it, let them, it's not illegal or a massive threat to society. You are given enough notice of it to avoid it if it's not your thing.

 

For you to sit there and say why does it happen as it has nothing to do with Scotland, is wrong. If it didn't have anything to do with Scotland there wouldn't be a march.

[Therapist]

Just had some Spaghetti Bolognaise for lunch which was pretty good.

 

Was that in commemoration of Bonnie Prince Charlie's Italian links?

 

Speaking of Italian food, I was in Centotre last night with Mrs Therapist. They have a new menu in there which is very impressive. Buffalo mozzarella and tomato to start (the langoustines had just run out ) followed by Milanese with potatoes fried in extra virgin olive oil. And two bottles of wine.

[H.A.N.S]

So you would have no objections to the James Connolly Society marching either on the same logic as above.

 

Which is fair enough.

 

Personally, I think they should be allowed to march, however if there are civil disturbances that follow on from any march then the Police should have the ability to say, "sorry, no march as it is a liable to result in a breach of the peace".

 

Bit of a catch all at the end, but hey...

 

I have no objections to any club or society marching as long as it's not illegal or a threat to society.

[Toggie88]

Was that in commemoration of Bonnie Prince Charlie's Italian links?

 

Speaking of Italian food, I was in Centotre last night with Mrs Therapist. They have a new menu in there which is very impressive. Buffalo mozzarella and tomato to start (the langoustines had just run out ) followed by Milanese with potatoes fried in extra virgin olive oil. And two bottles of wine.

 

That's the Contini's place on George Street is it not? Meant to be going there in a few weeks time, good to hear your impressed.

[Therapist]

That's the Contini's place on George Street is it not? Meant to be going there in a few weeks time, good to hear your impressed.

 

 

You are correct. The menu probably has twice as much on it now as it did a month ago including langoustines and soft shell crab. I can guarantee you will not be disappointed.

[Era Macaroons]

All this gives me an idea.

 

There must be hundreds of thousand(s?) of Hearts fans so is it not time we mobilised and created the Maroon Walk?

 

We could march through scabbie outposts like Grangemouth and Leith. Forget the bowler hats, we could wear those maroon and white jester hats favoured at cup finals.

I'll need some help on the detail but would imagine the airhorn would be the instument of choice. Every bit as relevant as an orange walk, and a great way to wind up hobos.

 

This is already an event every 3 or 4 years...where we all parade from Saughton Park along gorgie road showing our displeasure at the Chairman of the day.

 

Next one planned for May 2009 by all accounts

[Eckauskas]

Okay, it may be generalising - but it's not bigoted.

 

I based that comment on my own personal expierence. I've yet to meet/talk to anyone who supports these marches or actually marches, who is not bigoted.

I'm not being prejudiced against any religion = nothing bigoted about it.

 

Hello.

[Toggie88]

Hello.

 

Do you march?

[Miller Jambo 60]

Do you march?

 

How are you mate,dont let them get to you.

[Toggie88]

How are you mate,dont let them get to you.

 

I don't get worked up by them, mate - I pity them.

[Eckauskas]

Do you march?

 

No.

 

But I attend them, usually if I can get back home to Belfast.

[MacDonald Jardine]

OK smartarse.

 

Perhaps my initial point was ill put. You'd be lucky if a quarter of those who attend a march knew what it was all about.

 

Your contribution is roughly about the same as those 'rangers tap' wearing types that go watch these marches. Standing at the sidelines not really sure why they're there, but chipping in anyway.

 

So I'll have a quarter of everyone else's knowledge and about an eighth of yours?

[Toggie88]

No.

 

But I attend them, usually if I can get back home to Belfast.

 

I still stand by my comment.

 

I can see a bit more relevance with it being nearer to the actual battle, but I still believe that stopping all these marches would contribute towards stamping out bigotry in Scotland and the 6 counties.

[Cyber]

I'll be on the road this week quite a bit and the next couple of weeks ,mini 12th the mara night, then out fri/sat night at comp parades, church parade Sunday and the 1st July to remember the fallen at the somme busy few months this, all in we do about 60/70 parades a year.

[doctor jambo]

I still stand by my comment.

 

I can see a bit more relevance with it being nearer to the actual battle, but I still believe that stopping all these marches would contribute towards stamping out bigotry in Scotland and the 6 counties.

 

Yet the SNP government have done what about it?

ANd have legislated what about it?

And insisted the OF do what about it?

And intend to do what about it?

What are their thoughts on sectarianism, or even football related sectarianism?

Aye, silence

[PTBCAL]

Was thinking of taking the laddie to the Dinosaur exhibition at the Museum on Chamber St on Sat.

 

Instead I might take him to the Orange Walk to see some 'live' dinosaurs.

[The Mighty Thor]

So I'll have a quarter of everyone else's knowledge and about an eighth of yours?

 

Have you got that the right way round?

[Pete Seeger]

Bannockbrun has got nothing to do with anything Anti-English.

 

I suspect you are either; a)Fishing for an argument b)A Unionist who has no other argument so continues to march on with the anti-English stuff, in the hope someone else will believe c) You just don't know what Bannockburn is.

 

I Hope it's C.

 

A)I'm not fishing for an arguement. You are.

I'm not a unionist

C)I live in Stirling so I do know where Bannockburn is so don't get all smart arsed.

 

I'm not defending orange marches. I don't see the point in them. But why come on and moan about one set of knuckle draggers stuck in the past only to talk up another meaningless march. I can just about guarantee you anyone who marches to Bannockburn will be every much as anti English as the Orangeman are anti Catholic. They're just a different set of numpties with chips on their shoulders.

[portobellojambo1]

Okay, it may be generalising - but it's not bigoted.

 

I based that comment on my own personal expierence. I've yet to meet/talk to anyone who supports these marches or actually marches, who is not bigoted.

 

Would you like to meet some of them (although I suspect you have probably already done so.inadvertantly, i.e been in conversation with members of The Orange Order without actually realising it).

 

If you have a desire to sit down and talk with members of The Orange Order it should not be too difficult to arrange.

[Toggie88]

A)I'm not fishing for an arguement. You are.

I'm not a unionist

C)I live in Stirling so I do know where Bannockburn is so don't get all smart arsed.

 

I'm not defending orange marches. I don't see the point in them. But why come on and moan about one set of knuckle draggers stuck in the past only to talk up another meaningless march. I can just about guarantee you anyone who marches to Bannockburn will be every much as anti English as the Orangeman are anti Catholic. They're just a different set of numpties with chips on their shoulders.

 

All I can say is that you know nothing about Bannockburn then.

 

I know many people who marched, including local MSP Bruce Crawford, Gil Paterson MSP, Bill Kidd MSP, Chris Harvie MSP, Nicola Sturgeon MSP, Mike Russell MSP, and Aileen Campbell MSP. If you are suggesting these people are anti-English then you are sadly wrong.

 

Maybe I am guilty of not knowing about Orange marches - I'll admit. But I've yet to meet any Orangemen who was not bigoted.

[Toggie88]

Would you like to meet some of them (although I suspect you have probably already done so.inadvertantly, i.e been in conversation with members of The Orange Order without actually realising it).

 

If you have a desire to sit down and talk with members of The Orange Order it should not be too difficult to arrange.

 

I don't have any particular desire. Whenever I've knowingly met someone who was in the Orange Order, it has not been a pleasant experience.

[Markie]

Im actually meant to be going to Grangemouth on sat to watch the march.

 

Quite looking forward to it, never been to one so keen to see what its like

[Pete Seeger]

All I can say is that you know nothing about Bannockburn then.

 

I know many people who marched, including local MSP Bruce Crawford, Gil Paterson MSP, Bill Kidd MSP, Chris Harvie MSP, Nicola Sturgeon MSP, Mike Russell MSP, and Aileen Campbell MSP. If you are suggesting these people are anti-English then you are sadly wrong.

 

Maybe I am guilty of not knowing about Orange marches - I'll admit. But I've yet to meet any Orangemen who was not bigoted.

 

Congratulations. I don't know an awful lot about Bannockburn or orange marches and I have no interest in finding out who raped who and who battled who 700 years ago. And why anyone would want to glorify what went on in those day's is beyond me. But hey ho, obviously the SNP party think otherwise.

[jamboq]

 

I based that comment on my own personal expierence. I've yet to meet/talk to anyone who supports these marches or actually marches, who is not bigoted.

 

Hello.

 

I'm Jamboq and I'm an Orangeman.........................

 

In my lodge we even have an SNP member, who is also a Jambo. You may get on with or even know him?!

[ando]

freedom .religion .laws

[Toggie88]

Hello.

 

I'm Jamboq and I'm an Orangeman.........................

In my lodge we even have an SNP member, who is also a Jambo. You may get on with or even know him?!

 

I find that hard to believe.

 

I presume he is for Scotland winning Independence? If so, how does he work with the Orange Lodge's staunch unionist views?

 

(Not having a dig or calling you liar, generally interested).

[Toggie88]

Congratulations. I don't know an awful lot about Bannockburn or orange marches and I have no interest in finding out who raped who and who battled who 700 years ago. And why anyone would want to glorify what went on in those day's is beyond me. But hey ho, obviously the SNP party think otherwise.

 

I think it's maybe lack of knowledge of the political environment that draws your opinion on Bannockburn (just an observation).

 

FWIW I don't agree with the Bannockburn Commenoration. It is nothing to do with anti-English sentiments, although Siol Nan Ghaedhail (a proscribed organisations in the SNP) do taint it. I don't see the relevance for a march.

 

I'm all for marches for peoples belief, if it's for Independence, for the Union, for abortion rights, against abortion rights. I just don't like those that fuel religous hatred.

[Therapist]

I just don't like those that fuel religous hatred.

 

It appears you love those that fan the flames of anti-English racism though.

[JWL]

It appears you love those that fan the flames of anti-English racism though.

 

That time of year to dig out your old Double Album...............or have you transfeerd it to cd now:p