What has happened to Kickback?

[davie1980]

One of the amusing quirks of the forum and it seems like a fairly recent development, is the "I can't share my view" complaint

 

Yes we seem like a polarised support just now and there are very much 2 camp.

 

But those who like a whinge (which is every supporters right) moan that they are not allowed to be negative by the happy clapper brigade

and those who try to see the positives, feel they are being accused of making excuses for the regime, the accusations of being in anyone pocket are amusing too.

 

And people on all sides are accused of being Hibs infiltrators.

 

The truth is, no one is really being shut down. Every view gets it's airing.

People aren't closing ranks on you, it's just lots of people sharing very different views.

Internet forums are based on good old fashioned arguing, it's the main reason I come here.

If you share a view that others disagree with, they are always going to tell you you are wrong. If lot's of people disagree with you, it's going to feel as if you are being ganged up on. In reality it's just the nature of the internet

[Nookie Bear]

Never say anything on kickback you wouldn’t be prepared to say to someone’s face in the pub. Simple. 

[colinmaroon]

8 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

Never say anything on kickback you wouldn’t be prepared to say to someone’s face in the pub. Simple. 

 

 

A much broken maxim!

[Bridge of Djoum]

8 hours ago, Des Lynam said:

 

I agree Morgan! Tosh is ok for a hibee.......

Tosh is a ****

 

But a good ****.

[scott herbertson]

8 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

Never say anything on kickback you wouldn’t be prepared to say to someone’s face in the pub. Simple. 

 

Personally I wouldn't say half the things I'm prepared to say in the pub on kickback!

 

I think more negative in real life about the playing side. I may appear defensive on here sometimes because the way negative attitudes come across to me ona written thread sometimes seem destructive to the club when aired in public.

[Des Lynam]

40 minutes ago, colinmaroon said:

 

 

It's all a bit obvious, isn't it?

 

"Reasonable" poster comes on and puts the boot right into those who support Levein (at this particular moment) accusing them of the very thing that the pack of dogs who are against not just Levein but almost anything at Hearts at the moment, are doing.

 

As transparent as a newly wiped window!

 

Absolutely spot on Colin you wise but wee bit eccentric old uncle.....

[Bazzas right boot]

21 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

Never say anything on kickback you wouldn’t be prepared to say to someone’s face in the pub. Simple. 

 

Some the folk on here come across like the auld drunk guy in the pub that sits alone and just shouts random abuse- think father jack. Avoid at all costs.

[ri Alban]

13 hours ago, cuddledoon said:

 

 

I was a member of the original Kickback and have been a member of this KB since 2006.  Although I rarely post, I have read and do read The Terrace just about every day, and have been entertained and enlightened in equal measures, so I was and remain grateful to those who have provided the service.

 

Supporting our Club - in a variety of ways - through thick and thin - as many have, and I proudly include myself in that number (I first attended Tynecastle in 1954) does not mean that one cannot have and cannot express a view on anything related to Hearts.

 

However, I am saddened and disappointed at what I perceive to be a downward trend, namely the hijacking of Kickback by a “posse” of aggressive and abusive (contrary to the forum rules) posters, quite determined to impose their will, even to the extent of bullying and asserting their views. I feel that it is a shame that a number of reasonable and interesting contributors have either stopped posting or have gone elsewhere as a result.

 

No doubt I shall be subject to abuse for daring to raise my head above the parapet and criticising boorish behaviour and downright rudeness, but if you read through the threads it becomes clear that there is a real attempt to out-shout those who wish to raise legitimate concerns about matters on the pitch in particular.

 

Whilst grateful for the efforts made by those who interviewed Mrs Budge for the KB Q and A, and, one can only conclude, in order to curry favour with the owner and retain an on-going relationship between her and KB, there was no attempt at any depth or forensic examination of the laid-down targets, or of results or failures, which we have had to come to accept in recent months.

 

My understanding of the feelings of many Jambos (and I am fortunate to be in a position where I able to garnish the opinions of a wide cross section) is of increasing dissatisfaction with Mr Levein, despite the gang approach of the shout-louder-than-you “posse”, some of whom, it has been suggested, seem to be “ in the pocket” of our Head Coach/D of F/Board Member.

 

It is not unreasonable to suggest that Kickback needs to be very careful that it does not allow an element to take it over, and that it retains a balance so it does not appear that people are unable to express a contrary view to those who try to bully and shout loudest.

 

 

I tend to stay in the Shed, until match day. There's actually 2 posses , 1 that moans too much and one that overdoes the bunting too much.

[Mike Tyson]

9 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

This is an interesting and worthy thread. The OP raised a number of important, well argued points. But in my view, they can't really be answered.

 

This place had a lot of, for want of a better phrase, 'characters' some years back. I found them funny, sharp, entertaining, engaging... but at times, they did go too far. At times, they didn't know where the line was. At times, they ganged up on other posters just for the hell of it. So while they enjoyed themselves, others certainly didn't.

 

This place seems to lack those sorts of 'characters' now. Most of them are elsewhere, posting on a very different forum - but that doesn't make them right and JKB wrong, or JKB right and them wrong. It's simply different strokes for different folks. The forum they're on has next to no moderation - so they often take things a lot further than before, for both good and bad. This place has plenty of moderation: which keeps things under control, hopefully prevents any sort of nasty bullying, but will no doubt frustrate people at times.

 

Then, there's the football side of things. The forum I mentioned is pretty much 100% anti-Levein, to a frankly obsessive extent; and often quite anti-Budge too. This place is (rightly, in my view) extremely pro-Budge, and the poll suggested it was substantially pro-Levein: which is, well, not my position, at least. Which is the better representation of the Hearts support? Who knows? Everyone on this forum and that forum are Hearts fans of one kind or another. 

 

For my part, I have noticed what the OP mentions about the loudest, angriest posters often being the most pro-Levein ones - and what results can be pretty unpleasant, but I don't think it's out of hand. Of much more philosophical concern to me is: if Kickback was too fiercely critical of the club, would the club have a good relationship with Kickback? And that must impact on the ability of those running this forum to be truly independent. It has to. It's human nature. 

 

Is it a good thing that this forum can organise a Q&A with Ann Budge? Yes, absolutely. It's the exact opposite of the total disconnect felt during Romanov's time. And the role JKB played in organising donations, fundraising etc when the club was at death's door was magnificent, invaluable. But one person's idea of a well moderated forum might be another person's idea of a propaganda machine; one person's idea of a laugh and a joke might be another person's idea of bullying.

 

Different strokes for different folks. You can't please everyone all the time; you can't please everyone some of the time. If this place pleases most people at least some of the time, it's doing perfectly fine. And the same goes for the other forum I mentioned too.

I think there’s an in-between stance on Ann that’s acceptable. She obviously saved us from the abyss, which everyone is rightly grateful for. That doesn’t mean that she’s immune from criticism where it’s deserved. The unconditional trust she has in Levein is badly holding us back, and there’s no sign of that changing. The stand is a major issue as well. The constant delays were a source of frustration, and I don’t believe for a second that she genuinely thought we’d be open in the time she said it would be when we announced last years season tickets. It might sound harsh, but I think she’s really cheeky in her constant appeals to rake in fan cash. We know where we are, she doesn’t have to emphasise how reliant we are on fan generousity. The fact she does communicate with the fans on a regular basis is quite refreshing, but I don’t think we get the full story from her.

[ri Alban]

13 hours ago, Sir Vladimir of Romanov said:

 

The questions were reworded and watered down as far as I could see. While there is obviously no need for rudeness I believe the questions were altered to be much softer and easier to answer. 

 

If I'm wrong apologies to all. 

This

[Unknown user]

I think someone should say jkb is actually a pretty spiffing place, it gets thousands of posts every day because people like coming here. It's easy to slag it but we're probably all guilty of taking it and the work behind it for granted and i imagine the mods must feel pretty unappreciated at times. I don't think owners or mods need to justify themselves to anyone, we're all free to leave.

 

While it's true the debate is more polarised and tetchy these days, unfortunately it's a reflection of where Scotland is in general rather than a fault with jkb IMO, we've been divided by referenda in recent years and it shows. 

 

But jkb is still the best forum I know of, filled with good hearts people who care passionately about our great club - give it (and us!) some credit!

[Harry Potter]

14 hours ago, ...a bit disco said:

 

Was talking to Gary Locke the other day about this.

 

Imagine if JKB was around when we got papped 2-5 by Dumbarton at home and missed out on promotion from the old 1st?

Cant remember that but mind getting beat by Montrose league cup on 19th august 1986 by 2 goals to nil,

at Tyne, big crowd of 7028, KB would have been on meltdown with that.

[dc-jambo]

10 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

I love cuddledoon's politeness. He's like a wise, if a wee bit eccentric, old uncle.

 

Also pleased to see dc-jambo and Spellczech on this thread. I missed them.  

 

And Spellczech is spot on that those with very high post counts should be ignored. They're the absolute pits IMO. 

 

Cheers Shaun hope you are enjoying Uruguay. But isn’t Punta de Este the beach resort? Was there November before last - a bit dead off season

[Jodami]

49 minutes ago, Smithee said:

I think someone should say jkb is actually a pretty spiffing place, it gets thousands of posts every day because people like coming here. It's easy to slag it but we're probably all guilty of taking it and the work behind it for granted and i imagine the mods must feel pretty unappreciated at times. I don't think owners or mods need to justify themselves to anyone, we're all free to leave.

 

While it's true the debate is more polarised and tetchy these days, unfortunately it's a reflection of where Scotland is in general rather than a fault with jkb IMO, we've been divided by referenda in recent years and it shows. 

 

But jkb is still the best forum I know of, filled with good hearts people who care passionately about our great club - give it (and us!) some credit!

Excellent post Smithee, jkb is well run and I would rather engage with the club than rage against the machine. On the point of being polarised I've always felt that if you directly engage with another poster you disagree with on the subject matter (and not inflame it by just slagging them) then you can get pretty decent debate. There are several posters here who I disagree with on certain points but respect their right to those opinions and the fact that they clearly love the club.

This is an odd time though. The team is often painful to watch but the actual club is putting itself in order and that is bound to trigger arguments throughout the support.

[Spellczech]

2 hours ago, Mike Tyson said:

I think there’s an in-between stance on Ann that’s acceptable. She obviously saved us from the abyss, which everyone is rightly grateful for. That doesn’t mean that she’s immune from criticism where it’s deserved. The unconditional trust she has in Levein is badly holding us back, and there’s no sign of that changing. The stand is a major issue as well. The constant delays were a source of frustration, and I don’t believe for a second that she genuinely thought we’d be open in the time she said it would be when we announced last years season tickets. It might sound harsh, but I think she’s really cheeky in her constant appeals to rake in fan cash. We know where we are, she doesn’t have to emphasise how reliant we are on fan generousity. The fact she does communicate with the fans on a regular basis is quite refreshing, but I don’t think we get the full story from her.

But there are very obvious reasons for Budge's support for Levein. When she invested she admitted she did not know how to run a football club. She still doesn't, she just runs the business side. It was this admission that probably prevented her getting involved with SPL. She engaged Levein who is an ex-footballer with a brain to run the football side. She gave him a long leash and whilst the club is under her tenure it is her decision, and her right for it to be just her decision, how long that leash should be, and if he remains. 

 

People who put a few hundred, or even a few thousand pounds into Hearts have a right to an opinion, but only on here or in the pub...not the boardroom (yet, at least). Sacking Levein would not improve things as he clearly has a good working relationship with Budge, is an Hearts man, and recognises and changes things when he makes errors. Sensibly he just takes a bit longer to react than some on here who react to every result would wish.

[jamboozy]

I've enjoyed kickback for many years, and while I would say it isn't the be all and end all of everything Hearts it's good to read the different opinions of the fellow supporters that post. Any Hearts related news I want to read about I will read it hear. When times are a wee bit better and balanced on the playing front there is no place like kickback for funny threads, some even start as serious subjects and end up in tears of laughter, no fans site like it Imo.

[Marooned Abroad]

1 hour ago, Jodami said:

Excellent post Smithee, jkb is well run and I would rather engage with the club than rage against the machine. On the point of being polarised I've always felt that if you directly engage with another poster you disagree with on the subject matter (and not inflame it by just slagging them) then you can get pretty decent debate. There are several posters here who I disagree with on certain points but respect their right to those opinions and the fact that they clearly love the club.

This is an odd time though. The team is often painful to watch but the actual club is putting itself in order and that is bound to trigger arguments throughout the support.

This is where I am too. Well put!

[davie1980]

4 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:

Never say anything on kickback you wouldn’t be prepared to say to someone’s face in the pub. Simple. 

 

I only go to the pub to tell peopke how wrong they are about everything.

I tone that down a little bit on the internet

[Governor Tarkin]

Kickback is great.

I like it.

 

[ford donald]

5 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:

Never say anything on kickback you wouldn’t be prepared to say to someone’s face in the pub. Simple. 

 

In a nutshell.

[Zico]

Are some of our newer posters forming a Dignitas Hearts Supporter’s Club?

[redm]

I'm a little late to this but firstly I need to echo cosa's thoughts on the admin team and this idea that we have consensus on everything. This made me chuckle. We disagree quite regularly on all manner of things, as it happens. Doesn't mean we don't get along (they're all top people imo) or that we're not capable of managing the forum as a team. People disagree on things and that's just life, especially when it comes to football. 

 

Also, I have to admit to being a teeny bit insulted that the OP thinks we'd be interested in "currying favour" for any reason, and that another member who has only been here 4 weeks thinks there's reason to question our independence or integrity. That's harsh and a little unfair, I feel. The  Q&A questions were contributed by the members of this forum and were answered in some detail by Ann Budge, and there's little more to it than that I'm afraid. While it's always more pleasant to have a productive working relationship with the club from time to time (as opposed to something more adversarial) there isn't any sort of official connection and there's no undue influence exerted in either direction. From a personal perspective I can assure you that my views are most certainly my own, have never and will never be anyone else's.... I have too many of my own opinions on too many things, there's definitely no room to pick up extra. I've always expressed my thoughts honestly and this won't change, regardless of whether or not I'm admin. 

 

In relation to the character of JKB, I think it may well have changed.... yes. It changed in the first few years I read this forum back in early 00s, it changed again in years after that, and again around admin, then again in last few years. That's just the nature of social media/networks and is probably just as much a result of changing patterns of internet behaviour, and changing demographics of internet/digital literacy as it is anything specific to JKB and the people who use it now, or  those who have used it in the past. More people use the internet, in short, so you're going to get a wider variety of people and views. And people are generally happier online when they're happy about what's happening on the pitch, and obviously that's not really working out for us at the moment. I'm hoping for some exciting signings news to a) improve the squad b.) cheer me up and c) reduce the grump levels on JKB. A bit of excitement makes this place much less of a virtual dark cloud.  

 

 

[151]

Surely it's something to do with 

 

A) For older fans they will remember the days where we had top top quality players for Hearts - Dave Mackay etc and now struggle...

 

B ) Young fans who watch Messi and the likes and struggle...

 

With the absolute dross we sign and have to watch have the priviledge of pulling on the Maroon Jersey.

[frankblack]

7 minutes ago, Wham Bam Austin McCann said:

Surely it's something to do with 

 

A) For older fans they will remember the days where we had top top quality players for Hearts - Dave Mackay etc and now struggle...

 

B ) Young fans who watch Messi and the likes and struggle...

 

With the absolute dross we sign and have to watch have the priviledge of pulling on the Maroon Jersey.

 

We had far worse that this in the 90s with a team full of superstars like John Millar, Peter Van Der Ven, Fraser Wishart, etc.  Mid table finishes are not that unusual for us.

 

I think we had to go to Partick one year on the last day of the season and win or we could have got relegated with a certain combination of results going the other way.

[FarmerTweedy]

14 hours ago, Bring Back Paulo Sergio said:

The biggest problem with here is there are people who agree with absolutely anything the club.  From keeping arguably the worst head coach / manager in history to blaming a squad laced with internationals for Levein's inept tactics. They will aggressively defend every and all decisions made by Levein.

 

Edit: I think it's that they just don't really care that much. As long as we get to a final once every decade and there's still a club to occasionally support. Well, as long as rugby isn't on.

 

 

This is a great example of the very worst, and most moronic*, standard of posting on jkb!

 

Post an extreme opinion and claim that anyone who disagrees with it just mindlessly backs everything said and done by the club, and doesn't even care.

 

It's perfectly fine to not be happy with the way things are currently going, and to think things should be better (most people would probably agree with that to at least some extent) and it's perfectly fine to think Levein isn't the right guy for the job and should be replaced (a lot of people would agree with that too, but a minority judging by a recent poll).

 

It's utterly ludicrous to suggest that people who either think CL is the right man for the job, or at least think he should be given more time to show whether he's the right man or not, don't actually care as much as people who think he should be binned now.

 

* I appreciate that moronic is a strong term, but it's quite frankly about the gentlest term I could think of to describe this post.

[FarmerTweedy]

14 hours ago, Haken said:

Again, perception.  I don't see a lot of people "who agree with absolutely anything the club".  What I'm reading is that those who want Levein to say caveat (Latin, oh my) that with a desire to see improvement.  The debate is really a question of Levein being capable of that or not.  There are a few who are convinced he's not.  The are a few - I'm one - who think he can.  If the former group are proved correct, we'll change manager and we go again.  If the latter are correct, no doubt the former group will be happy to enjoy the success.

 

To suggest that people don't care is wide of the mark.  I have a season ticket, attend the majority of away games, and subscribe to FoH.  I hope that qualifies as caring.

Your post is far more reasonable than the one it was replying to deserved!

[FarmerTweedy]

14 hours ago, cuddledoon said:

 

 

I believe that this post summarises the situation well.  

 

I have expressed my views, I trust in a reasonable and considered manner, and to an extent I bow to the superior Kickback experience of this poster.

 

To Mr Lynam who mockingly ( in my opinion) wants to hear “how you plan to save Kickback” - I would never be so presumptuous as to dictate anything to such an esteemed and knowledgeable Kickbacker as him.  

 

All that I have suggested is that, again in my opinion, Kickback would be a more enjoyable, beneficial, even positive place if posters would show more respect to the points of view of others, whilst still debating fiercely.

 

Perhaps as one reaches a certain age, one becomes more mellow. After all, we all want the best for our famous club.

I agree with the bit in bold. The culprits are spread pretty evenly over the spectrum of what could maybe be described as positive and negative views of how the club is being run, IMO, and I know I'm guilty on occasion. 

 

I doubt things are likely to change!

[Beast Boy]

1 hour ago, Zico said:

Are some of our newer posters forming a Dignitas Hearts Supporter’s Club?

 

[sadj]

1 hour ago, redm said:

I'm a little late to this but firstly I need to echo cosa's thoughts on the admin team and this idea that we have consensus on everything. This made me chuckle. We disagree quite regularly on all manner of things, as it happens. Doesn't mean we don't get along (they're all top people imo) or that we're not capable of managing the forum as a team. People disagree on things and that's just life, especially when it comes to football. 

 

Also, I have to admit to being a teeny bit insulted that the OP thinks we'd be interested in "currying favour" for any reason, and that another member who has only been here 4 weeks thinks there's reason to question our independence or integrity. That's harsh and a little unfair, I feel. The  Q&A questions were contributed by the members of this forum and were answered in some detail by Ann Budge, and there's little more to it than that I'm afraid. While it's always more pleasant to have a productive working relationship with the club from time to time (as opposed to something more adversarial) there isn't any sort of official connection and there's no undue influence exerted in either direction. From a personal perspective I can assure you that my views are most certainly my own, have never and will never be anyone else's.... I have too many of my own opinions on too many things, there's definitely no room to pick up extra. I've always expressed my thoughts honestly and this won't change, regardless of whether or not I'm admin. 

 

In relation to the character of JKB, I think it may well have changed.... yes. It changed in the first few years I read this forum back in early 00s, it changed again in years after that, and again around admin, then again in last few years. That's just the nature of social media/networks and is probably just as much a result of changing patterns of internet behaviour, and changing demographics of internet/digital literacy as it is anything specific to JKB and the people who use it now, or  those who have used it in the past. More people use the internet, in short, so you're going to get a wider variety of people and views. And people are generally happier online when they're happy about what's happening on the pitch, and obviously that's not really working out for us at the moment. I'm hoping for some exciting signings news to a) improve the squad b.) cheer me up and c) reduce the grump levels on JKB. A bit of excitement makes this place much less of a virtual dark cloud.  

 

 

 

@cuddledoon I think if you asked most on here that is essentially the reply you’d get in relation to the board.

 

The opinions may be divided but to have approached a subject in they way you did which was from an unbalanced standpoint you were always going to get negative feedback.

 

Theres also a lot of users who whilst we have grumps at times about tedious trolling of certain topics into seemingly every thread also enjoy the platform we have to discuss the club and all that goes with it. There is also posters who feel this is a place to vent their disgrubtlement with the club or any aspect of it. Most do it in a balanced and sensible way. 

 

Saying that having a pop at the admin team or mods on an open thread is also always going to attract a defence of some sort as these people do what they do voluntarily for our benefit. 

 

Asking if and how the forum has changed over the years and a healthy debate over wether its for the better or how it could be improved moving forward is one thing. Thats not how your post came across. 

 

 

[Unknown user]

2 hours ago, Zico said:

Are some of our newer posters forming a Dignitas Hearts Supporter’s Club?

They'll have a home here, Kickback is for arseholes AND Dignitarseholes

[maroonlegions]

Its reeking of hobo trolls.

 

And there are those who have  a creepy /stocky like issues  with certain posters  who they follow on most threads and who they just like to put the boot into at any oppertunity 

 

Mind you its a great forum for the way it has raised money for certain causes , donate a ticket has made a lot of kids happy, the positives out weight the "arse holes", "attention seekers"  and know  it all"s. FTH.

 

 

[SpruceBringsteen]

2 hours ago, frankblack said:

We had far worse that this in the 90s with a team full of superstars like John Millar, Peter Van Der Ven, Fraser Wishart, etc.

 

Nobody going to comment on the utterly bizarre inclusion of John Millar there, nah?

 

[frankblack]

6 minutes ago, SpruceBringsteen said:

 

Nobody going to comment on the utterly bizarre inclusion of John Millar there, nah?

 

 

He was bang average, mate, and I probably saw most of his games home and away.  I forgot to add the likes of Colin Millar and Fabien LeClerk.

[Morgan]

8 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:

Never say anything on kickback you wouldn’t be prepared to say to someone’s face in the pub. Simple. 

A good philosophy NB

[Morgan]

8 hours ago, Des Lynam said:

 

Absolutely spot on Colin you wise but wee bit eccentric old uncle.....

 

[SpruceBringsteen]

11 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

He was bang average, mate, and I probably saw most of his games home and away.  I forgot to add the likes of Colin Millar and Fabien LeClerk.

 

John Millar was like ****ing Platini compared to every player you've mentioned so far. However if you want to continue with this absolute nonsense, then I suggest also comparing him to Davie Kirkwood and Jim Weir. 

[soonbe110]

3 hours ago, Wham Bam Austin McCann said:

Surely it's something to do with 

 

A) For older fans they will remember the days where we had top top quality players for Hearts - Dave Mackay etc and now struggle...

 

B ) Young fans who watch Messi and the likes and struggle...

 

With the absolute dross we sign and have to watch have the priviledge of pulling on the Maroon Jersey.

Not disagreeing but increased media coverage, technology and social media has lot to answer for. 

Im in my 60’s and every Hearts team I have supported and watched since the mid60’s has had dross in it. Really good players at times as well but probably more dross than really good. Average best sums it up. 

Messi today is like Pele when I was younger. You only really ever saw him at World Cups, he was Brazilian so you knew he could never play for Hearts. Compare that with Messi today who is  live on tv twice a week and available everywhere anytime via various media formats. 

The increased visibility just increases expectations. Unrealistically unfortunately. 

[soonbe110]

7 minutes ago, SpruceBringsteen said:

 

John Millar was like ****ing Platini compared to every player you've mentioned so far. However if you want to continue with this absolute nonsense, then I suggest also comparing him to Davie Kirkwood and Jim Weir. 

Agreed. Wish we had him today. 

[All Out Attack]

4 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

We had far worse that this in the 90s with a team full of superstars like John Millar, Peter Van Der Ven, Fraser Wishart, etc.  Mid table finishes are not that unusual for us.

 

I think we had to go to Partick one year on the last day of the season and win or we could have got relegated with a certain combination of results going the other way.

More than ever now football is about money. 

 

Comparisons against era's where the money made by clubs was totally different and the way we obtained players was different,  are completely irrelevant. 

 

Bottom line, Hearts should not be finishing 6th with a shambles of a squad, in this current era, with our resources. 

[Beast Boy]

1 minute ago, All Out Attack said:

More than ever football is about money. The more you have by and large, the more successful your team will be. We should clearly be competing at the top end based on this. 

 

Comparisons against era's where the money made by clubs was totally different and the way we obtain players,  are completely irrelevant. 

 

Bottom line, Hearts should not be finishing 6th with a shambles of a squad, in this current era, with our resources. 

 

Good job it doesn’t happen very often then. Eh, mate?

[All Out Attack]

Just now, Bez said:

 

Good job it doesn’t happen very often then. Eh, mate?

And it shouldn't either, which is why we need to sort out the underlying cause. 

[Beast Boy]

Just now, All Out Attack said:

And it shouldn't either, which is why we need to sort out the underlying cause. 

 

Well statistically this century we finish higher than sixth... but then... a huge part of the reason for that is down to Levein’s two third place finishes as manager... so... clearly he’s not the underlying cause. Where should we turn next as we charge around screeching incomprehensibly with our underpants over our heads?

[sadj]

2 minutes ago, Bez said:

 

Well statistically this century we finish higher than sixth... but then... a huge part of the reason for that is down to Levein’s two third place finishes as manager... so... clearly he’s not the underlying cause. Where should we turn next as we charge around screeching incomprehensibly with our underpants over our heads?

Brilliant ??

[All Out Attack]

Just now, Bez said:

 

Well statistically this century we finish higher than sixth... but then... a huge part of the reason for that is down to Levein’s two third place finishes as manager... so... clearly he’s not the underlying cause. Where should we turn next as we charge around screeching incomprehensibly with our underpants over our heads?

I try my best to stick to the current football era and management regime. Levein just now doesn't even take training, he is a totally different person. 

 

We will finish 6th this season under Levein without any trophy, so that is the current reality. 

 

Comparisons against any previous regimes including or championship spell are irrelevant to today's club. 

[Beast Boy]

Just now, All Out Attack said:

I try my best to stick to the current football era and management regime. Levein just now doesn't even take training, he is a totally different person. 

 

We will finish 6th this season under Levein without any trophy, so that is the current reality. 

 

Comparisons against any previous regimes including or championship spell are irrelevant to today's club. 

 

Well that just plain doesn’t make sense mate... you said this in response to my post about not finishing 6th very often:

 

“... And it shouldn't either, which is why we need to sort out the underlying cause... “

 

So if historical finishes are so irrelevant, then why would it be a reason to get rid of Levein, based upon him not finishing in as high a position as historical finishes that he helped create the data for?

[@VladMagic]

1 minute ago, Bez said:

 

Well that just plain doesn’t make sense mate... you said this in response to my post about not finishing 6th very often:

 

“... And it shouldn't either, which is why we need to sort out the underlying cause... “

 

So if historical finishes are so irrelevant, then why would it be a reason to get rid of Levein, based upon him not finishing in as high a position as historical finishes that he helped create the data for?

 

Checkmate.

[Morgan]

5 minutes ago, Bez said:

 

Well that just plain doesn’t make sense mate... you said this in response to my post about not finishing 6th very often:

 

“... And it shouldn't either, which is why we need to sort out the underlying cause... “

 

So if historical finishes are so irrelevant, then why would it be a reason to get rid of Levein, based upon him not finishing in as high a position as historical finishes that he helped create the data for?

 

Touchdown.

[All Out Attack]

1 minute ago, Bez said:

 

Well that just plain doesn’t make sense mate... you said this in response to my post about not finishing 6th very often:

 

“... And it shouldn't either, which is why we need to sort out the underlying cause... “

 

So if historical finishes are so irrelevant, then why would it be a reason to get rid of Levein, based upon him not finishing in as high a position as historical finishes that he helped create the data for?

You are on one here. Let me make it simple for you. 

 

A team in Scotland with our budget, resources, training facilities, support and players (including internationals) should not be 6th or have its supporters bickering with each other over the awful season we have had. 

 

Taking all the above into account, the root cause is Levein who is now 4 years into his 5 year plan. Shambles... 

[sadj]

11 minutes ago, Bez said:

 

Well that just plain doesn’t make sense mate... you said this in response to my post about not finishing 6th very often:

 

“... And it shouldn't either, which is why we need to sort out the underlying cause... “

 

So if historical finishes are so irrelevant, then why would it be a reason to get rid of Levein, based upon him not finishing in as high a position as historical finishes that he helped create the data for?

Touché

[sadj]

5 minutes ago, All Out Attack said:

You are on one here. Let me make it simple for you. 

 

A team in Scotland with our budget, resources, training facilities, support and players (including internationals) should not be 6th or have its supporters bickering with each other over the awful season we have had. 

 

Taking all the above into account, the root cause is Levein who is now 4 years into his 5 year plan. Shambles... 

Just Levein? Or the whole board and structure and previous incumbent for his horrendous preseason ideas and stupidly unbalanced squad. The stand for detracting from spenadable income and forcing us to play away from Tynecastle. Not like Levein has a boss nor that other clubs have similar budgets to us just now. Not like Hibs have a bounce from overspending to win the Championship as we did aswell. 

 

Questions need asked if we are in this position next year.

 

Meantime congratulations on yet again pulling a thread to your agenda and not focussing on the ops post. Even though you made all but the same post on another thread that I also took issue with not long ago.

 

@Bez made a fair point to your view and called you on it , your response is “your are on one” which goes back to the topic at hand and how people have a position which their chat will change to suit their position or agenda.