What has happened to Kickback?

[jake]

Just now, Morgan said:

 Dug.

 

Tosh is definitely one of the good guys.

Naw he's no burn him ?

[Morgan]

2 minutes ago, jake said:

Naw he's no burn him ?

Dinnae follow that one Jake?

[jake]

Just now, Morgan said:

Dinnae follow that one Jake?

THAT THREAD 

 

Just havin a carry on .

Ignore me

[Bazzas right boot]

7 minutes ago, luckydug said:

Can you imagine  Cuddledoon's reaction if he had to take a fraction of the stick you have to take.

He he.

 

Have... nah-choose

[Morgan]

Just now, jake said:

THAT THREAD

Not the old Cup Final one?

[Marooned Abroad]

7 minutes ago, sadj said:

I think its wrong to say the older fans are the more realistic ones in terms of the club as a whole. There is definately a lot of posters my age and older who constantly find negativity in all aspects of the club. The demographic is not as you suggest if you read threads thoroughly and get an idea of the ages of supporters with certain opinions.

 

In saying that there is also a sense of entitlement that we should be achieving higher than our average achievements every year , which while not limited to the younger fans is more noticeable amongst them imo

I don’t disagree, sadj. There are some right old moaners amongst my generation too! However, long term suffering does give a sense of perspective and we have had many worse seasons than this one. To read some of the posts in here, you would think we were about to be relegated!

[Morgan]

2 minutes ago, jake said:

THAT THREAD 

 

Just havin a carry on .

Ignore me

 

Just now, Morgan said:

Not the old Cup Final one?

Cool man

[Bazzas right boot]

Some might say jkb isn't fit for purpose.

 

It's a theme atm.

[cuddledoon]

20 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

 

Are you Mr Kelman? 

 

6 minutes ago, luckydug said:

Can you imagine  Cuddledoon's reaction if he had to take a fraction of the stick you have to take.

 

 

I would not wish to be accused of hypocrisy if I appear in any way disrespectful to you, Des Lynam, but it says little for your abilities to discern between what I believe to be a balanced and reasonable post, trying to shown concern for Kickback,  and a post from that of a person who has shown the most extreme of views.  So I shall take it that yours was a flippant remark/question.

[portobellojambo1]

I may be wrong, but I do get the impression maybe view points have become a wee bit more polarised over recent years. I don't know if it as simple as the fact there are now some posters who are putting more cash into HMFC through FoH, for example, and as a result when they do post something there is then a tendency to defend that line rather than look to become involved in a form of discussion.

 

I started posting around 2003/04 I think and at that time there were a lot of threads in The Terrace where there was more discussion taking place, it was a bit more jocular. Just seems to be a bit more extreme on some threads these days, with no give and no take. Just my opinion mind you, so it is neither right nor wrong.

[Des Lynam]

9 minutes ago, Morgan said:

 Dug.

 

Tosh is definitely one of the good guys.

 

I agree Morgan! Tosh is ok for a hibee.......

[martoon]

Best not to judge a fan base on their forums. Hibs.nut is a magnet for harmless loons with an unhealthy fixation on Hearts and every penny we spend and everything we say or do.

 

The real life Hibby is a lot worse. 

[dc-jambo]

Am not always pleased with JKB but am absolutely THRILLED that the [Mod Edit]s to whom the OP refers have gone elsewhere.

 

more importantly, I visit various other clubs’ forums from time to time, and JKB seems to me still the sanest in the UK, as well as one of the most active, relative to the size of our support

[Morgan]

1 minute ago, Des Lynam said:

 

I agree Morgan! Tosh is ok for a hibee.......

[Des Lynam]

1 minute ago, cuddledoon said:

 

 

 

I would not wish to be accused of hypocrisy if I appear in any way disrespectful to you, Des Lynam, but it says little for your abilities to discern between what I believe to be a balanced and reasonable post, trying to shown concern for Kickback,  and a post from that of a person who has shown the most extreme of views.  So I shall take it that yours was a flippant remark/question.

 

It makes no difference if you’re disrespectful or not to my good self. It’s irrelevant. Sorry cuddledoon but I’m very wary of people who tell others how to behave and act. 

 

So tell us how you plan to save kickback? 

 

 

[martoon]

I've often expressed opinions that go against the majority and haven't experienced any abuse. Certainly nothing that can't be smoothed over with a friendly reply. 

 

JKB is fine. 

 

Compare it to others, particularly those of Hibs, Celtic and Rangers, and we're pretty much the most reasonable punters online. 

[Haken]

14 minutes ago, Bring Back Paulo Sergio said:

The biggest problem with here is there are people who agree with absolutely anything the club.  From keeping arguably the worst head coach / manager in history to blaming a squad laced with internationals for Levein's inept tactics. They will aggressively defend every and all decisions made by Levein.

 

Edit: I think it's that they just don't really care that much. As long as we get to a final once every decade and there's still a club to occasionally support. Well, as long as rugby isn't on.

 

 

Again, perception.  I don't see a lot of people "who agree with absolutely anything the club".  What I'm reading is that those who want Levein to say caveat (Latin, oh my) that with a desire to see improvement.  The debate is really a question of Levein being capable of that or not.  There are a few who are convinced he's not.  The are a few - I'm one - who think he can.  If the former group are proved correct, we'll change manager and we go again.  If the latter are correct, no doubt the former group will be happy to enjoy the success.

 

To suggest that people don't care is wide of the mark.  I have a season ticket, attend the majority of away games, and subscribe to FoH.  I hope that qualifies as caring.

[Notts1874]

Firstly Kickback should be a place to support Hearts on the internet and for folks to share their joy at a win or despair at defeat.

 

Secondly, It should be a place to discuss and debate what is happening at Tynecastle, be that good or bad.........

 

And this is where I'm afraid I need to get personal so hang on a moment ?

 

 

I have been reading and posting on here since the Vlad days. I normally had bugger all to say for the majority of that time apart from comment on apart from the games I had been to.

 

This changed a couple of years ago when I got told a few things about possible signings and put them on here.

 

I have since been called a liar etc etc so I now just PM other folk and let them post the news......funnily enough they don't get the same grief ?

[Bazzas right boot]

9 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

 

I agree Morgan! Tosh is ok for a hibee.......

 

[Des Lynam]

Just now, BigDave'sHeed said:

 

 

Haha! 

[Alex]

3 hours ago, davemclaren said:

I know at least one who doesn’t think he is the answer. I can’t name names though. 

 

Dave, just think, if you did name him/her you could get yourself a ban and put your feet up for a couple of weeks ! :-)

[Bazzas right boot]

Tbf, I did laugh?

[martoon]

4 minutes ago, Notts1874 said:

Firstly Kickback should be a place to support Hearts on the internet and for folks to share their joy at a win or despair at defeat.

 

Secondly, It should be a place to discuss and debate what is happening at Tynecastle, be that good or bad.........

 

And this is where I'm afraid I need to get personal so hang on a moment ?

 

 

I have been reading and posting on here since the Vlad days. I normally had bugger all to say for the majority of that time apart from comment on apart from the games I had been to.

 

This changed a couple of years ago when I got told a few things about possible signings and put them on here.

 

I have since been called a liar etc etc so I now just PM other folk and let them post the news......funnily enough they don't get the same grief ?

 

On the flip side, Notts, there are many of us who welcome your info and believe it to be sound. 

 

Doesn't always come to pass, but that's hardly your fault. 

[1971fozzy]

7 minutes ago, Haken said:

Again, perception.  I don't see a lot of people "who agree with absolutely anything the club".  What I'm reading is that those who want Levein to say caveat (Latin, oh my) that with a desire to see improvement.  The debate is really a question of Levein being capable of that or not.  There are a few who are convinced he's not.  The are a few - I'm one - who think he can.  If the former group are proved correct, we'll change manager and we go again.  If the latter are correct, no doubt the former group will be happy to enjoy the success.

 

To suggest that people don't care is wide of the mark.  I have a season ticket, attend the majority of away games, and subscribe to FoH.  I hope that qualifies as caring.

 

Superb post

[Spellczech]

Simple truth is that Hearts are a business and cannot be reactionary in the same way that fans can. Fans react to individual results - some people are guaranteed to be on here immediately after a loss and stay on until we win a game saying Hearts have never been this poor in 50 years, others run for the hills and avoid JKB if we lose as they cannot be bothered with all the over-reaction.  Similar thing happens when Hearts win, some come on here to settle scores and crow that all is great, whilst others avoid it as they don't have much to say if it is not a complaint....Some are only interested in signing and departures, as they like the Football Manager aspect of JKB. Some live only in the Shed. 

 

Over the years I've learned to pretty much disregard the posters who have either very low post counts, or indeed very high post counts...

[davemclaren]

3 minutes ago, Alex said:

 

Dave, just think, if you did name him/her you could get yourself a ban and put your feet up for a couple of weeks ! :-)

Good point. ?

[shaun.lawson]

I love cuddledoon's politeness. He's like a wise, if a wee bit eccentric, old uncle.

 

Also pleased to see dc-jambo and Spellczech on this thread. I missed them.  

 

And Spellczech is spot on that those with very high post counts should be ignored. They're the absolute pits IMO. 

[luckydug]

2 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

 

And Spellczech is spot on that those with very high post counts should be ignored. They're the absolute pits IMO. 

Same goes for those that write a book rather than a post.☺

[Siphiwe Tshabalala]

Who cares. 

 

Seriously.

[cuddledoon]

44 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

This is an interesting and worthy thread. The OP raised a number of important, well argued points. But in my view, they can't really be answered.

 

This place had a lot of, for want of a better phrase, 'characters' some years back. I found them funny, sharp, entertaining, engaging... but at times, they did go too far. At times, they didn't know where the line was. At times, they ganged up on other posters just for the hell of it. So while they enjoyed themselves, others certainly didn't.

 

This place seems to lack those sorts of 'characters' now. Most of them are elsewhere, posting on a very different forum - but that doesn't make them right and JKB wrong, or JKB right and them wrong. It's simply different strokes for different folks. The forum they're on has next to no moderation - so they often take things a lot further than before, for both good and bad. This place has plenty of moderation: which keeps things under control, hopefully prevents any sort of nasty bullying, but will no doubt frustrate people at times.

 

Then, there's the football side of things. The forum I mentioned is pretty much 100% anti-Levein, to a frankly obsessive extent; and often quite anti-Budge too. This place is (rightly, in my view) extremely pro-Budge, and the poll suggested it was substantially pro-Levein: which is, well, not my position, at least. Which is the better representation of the Hearts support? Who knows? Everyone on this forum and that forum are Hearts fans of one kind or another. 

 

For my part, I have noticed what the OP mentions about the loudest, angriest posters often being the most pro-Levein ones - and what results can be pretty unpleasant, but I don't think it's out of hand. Of much more philosophical concern to me is: if Kickback was too fiercely critical of the club, would the club have a good relationship with Kickback? And that must impact on the ability of those running this forum to be truly independent. It has to. It's human nature. 

 

Is it a good thing that this forum can organise a Q&A with Ann Budge? Yes, absolutely. It's the exact opposite of the total disconnect felt during Romanov's time. And the role JKB played in organising donations, fundraising etc when the club was at death's door was magnificent, invaluable. But one person's idea of a well moderated forum might be another person's idea of a propaganda machine; one person's idea of a laugh and a joke might be another person's idea of bullying.

 

Different strokes for different folks. You can't please everyone all the time; you can't please everyone some of the time. If this place pleases most people at least some of the time, it's doing perfectly fine. And the same goes for the other forum I mentioned too.

 

 

I believe that this post summarises the situation well.  

 

I have expressed my views, I trust in a reasonable and considered manner, and to an extent I bow to the superior Kickback experience of this poster.

 

To Mr Lynam who mockingly ( in my opinion) wants to hear “how you plan to save Kickback” - I would never be so presumptuous as to dictate anything to such an esteemed and knowledgeable Kickbacker as him.  

 

All that I have suggested is that, again in my opinion, Kickback would be a more enjoyable, beneficial, even positive place if posters would show more respect to the points of view of others, whilst still debating fiercely.

 

Perhaps as one reaches a certain age, one becomes more mellow. After all, we all want the best for our famous club.

[Beast Boy]

6 minutes ago, Elias Henry Furst said:

 

 

Nobody cares.

 

Check your pathetic traffic for evidence.

 

 

 

 

[shaun.lawson]

6 minutes ago, luckydug said:

Same goes for those that write a book rather than a post.☺

 

Would you believe that, as well as being a teacher, I'm a professional editor? Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction. 

[cuddledoon]

14 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

I love cuddledoon's politeness. He's like a wise, if a wee bit eccentric, old uncle.

 

Also pleased to see dc-jambo and Spellczech on this thread. I missed them.  

 

And Spellczech is spot on that those with very high post counts should be ignored. They're the absolute pits IMO. 

 

2 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Would you believe that, as well as being a teacher, I'm a professional editor? Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction. 

 

Thank you.  It takes one to know one.

 

Actually, quite like the notion of “a wise, if a wee bit eccentric, old uncle.”

[luckydug]

FAO Cuddledoon.

With respect about the only part of your contribution I can agree with is your last paragraph. 

I wish you wouldn't presume to speak for the older generation of Hearts supporters.

The older generation will have seen much worse teams and manager than we have at the moment.

As for disrespect have a gander at the Dundee match thread then come and tell me it is those of us who want to give Mr Levein next season who are bullies and disrespectful.

[cuddledoon]

9 minutes ago, luckydug said:

With respect about the only part of your contribution I can agree with is your last paragraph. 

I wish you wouldn't presume to speak for the older generation of Hearts supporters.

The older generation will have seen much worse teams and manager than we have at the moment.

As for disrespect have a gander at the Dundee match thread then come and tell me it is those of us who want to give Mr Levein next season who are bullies and disrespectful.

 

I have not presumed to speak for anyone except myself.  I am fortunate to have the opportunity of speaking to a wide age range of Jambos, but do not speak for them, I only listen to their views.

 

i have certainly seen, and suffered with, some very poor Hearts’ teams, but, like many I am frustrated that we have not made better on field progress since being “saved”.

 

As i have said several times, I do not condone abuse and disrespect, irrespective of whichever view is being expressed. 

 

I have no other agenda other than to offer respectfully some advice gained through my age and life and work experience in order to hopefully get / retain the best from and for Kickback.

[Saint Jambo]

4 minutes ago, cuddledoon said:

 

I have not presumed to speak for anyone except myself.  I am fortunate to have the opportunity of speaking to a wide age range of Jambos, but do not speak for them, I only listen to their views.

 

i have certainly seen, and suffered with, some very poor Hearts’ teams, but, like many I am frustrated that we have not made better on field progress since being “saved”.

 

As i have said several times, I do not condone abuse and disrespect, irrespective of whichever view is being expressed. 

 

I have no other agenda other than to offer respectfully some advice gained through my age and life and work experience in order to hopefully get / retain the best from and for Kickback.

But you've done more than that. In your OP you claimed that the KB mods were trying to curry favour with the club by asking soft questions. You claimed that some posters were "in the pocket" of Levein. I have no idea what this would actually mean in this context. That they are paid by Levein? You have claimed that KB is not delivering balance. All that goes much further than just calling for more respect and I'd say that without presenting any evidence to back any of it up could accurately be described as disrespectful of the mods and other posters.

 

As many others have said, the vociferous voices and disrespectful comments appear to me to come from people on both sides of the 'pro'/ 'anti'.

 

I really don't get the point a couple of posters have made about KB being too pro the current Board/ management. I don't recall ever seeing anything that could be construed as an official KB position on the current situation, except possibly that they bought the owner flowers for her birthday (was that the occasion? I might be mistaken). Can anyone enlighten me on how they deduce the position of KB as an entity?

[Maple Leaf]

19 minutes ago, cuddledoon said:

 

I have not presumed to speak for anyone except myself.  I am fortunate to have the opportunity of speaking to a wide age range of Jambos, but do not speak for them, I only listen to their views.

 

i have certainly seen, and suffered with, some very poor Hearts’ teams, but, like many I am frustrated that we have not made better on field progress since being “saved”.

 

As i have said several times, I do not condone abuse and disrespect, irrespective of whichever view is being expressed. 

 

I have no other agenda other than to offer respectfully some advice gained through my age and life and work experience in order to hopefully get / retain the best from and for Kickback.

 

JKB doesn't have a mission statement but, if we did, it would read something like, "provide a forum for Hearts supporters to post their views, assist HMFC whenever possible, and assist Scottish charities whenever possible."  Based on that, I think JKB does a reasonably good job.

 

Nevertheless, everybody recognises that the opinions posted are often extreme, and the responses to those opinions are often harsh.  The admin team tries to keep things on track according to our published rules, but we're not always successful.  And we're not always right.  The two biggest complaints we get are that the moderation isn't strong enough, and that the moderation is too strong.  Often, whether a post is outside the rules is a judgement call and, as I say, we don't always get it right.

 

It should not be overlooked that the admin team is a very small group of people, who run the forum on a part-time, voluntary basis.  Everyday, there are hours when no moderators are on duty.  With roughly 2,000 posts per day, that means not all posts are read.  Some posts that are outside the rules simply go undetected.

 

But I like to think that the admin team are open to suggestions on how JKB can be improved.  We accept that there will always be room for improvement.

[cosanostra]

5 hours ago, Elmore said:

You must understand why some posters think it's strange that every admin member or Moderator agrees on every point on almost every issue.  None of you disagree with anything the clubs is doing on the field or off?  The loudest shouters are the ones who quickly round on anyone who questions anything about the club.  Question anything and posters are spending half the day proving their 'credentials'.  Maybe it's the beginning of the end of message boards.  If their not completely independent, what's the point?

 

That's absolute nonsense.

We 100% do not always agree. In fact, we rarely do all agree on club matters.

I'm still in favour of A.B running the club but Craig Levein appearing to have a job for life in one capacity or another is not acceptable. 

His team are not performing and if he fails, he should go. No more DoF role, just go. 

He's had two transfer windows now to address the gaping holes in the team (one and a half really) and he hasn't done that.

I think he's steadied the ship after his disastrous employing of Cathro but next window and first 12 games of next season there has to be a huge improvement or he has to go and we have to look elsewhere.

How many chances are we going to give this guy? This must be his last chance.

[sadj]

12 minutes ago, Saint Jambo said:

But you've done more than that. In your OP you claimed that the KB mods were trying to curry favour with the club by asking soft questions. You claimed that some posters were "in the pocket" of Levein. I have no idea what this would actually mean in this context. That they are paid by Levein? You have claimed that KB is not delivering balance. All that goes much further than just calling for more respect and I'd say that without presenting any evidence to back any of it up could accurately be described as disrespectful of the mods and other posters.

 

As many others have said, the vociferous voices and disrespectful comments appear to me to come from people on both sides of the 'pro'/ 'anti'.

 

I really don't get the point a couple of posters have made about KB being too pro the current Board/ management. I don't recall ever seeing anything that could be construed as an official KB position on the current situation, except possibly that they bought the owner flowers for her birthday (was that the occasion? I might be mistaken). Can anyone enlighten me on how they deduce the position of KB as an entity?

Yet the person who initiated that was a certain headphone related poster and that poster has opinions that would not fit the Ops stance. 

If JKB wasnt balanced then you wouldn’t have two very different sides. When you factor in the trollers and the more vociferous and abusive posters there is no agenda by JKB if anything as Dave said the moderation at times was too strict and has lightened up and theres a few of us who can have a laugh and move on and off topic but its never to a driven agenda. Its more the Billie type stuff and passes the time. 

 

The Op says people should be allowed to debate and there is a lot of posters who refuse to do this. As soon as they are challenged and asked to give a reason for their position they simply ignore the post or turn personal. That is social media for you.

[shaun.lawson]

14 minutes ago, cosanostra said:

 

That's absolute nonsense.

We 100% do not always agree. In fact, we rarely do all agree on club matters.

I'm still in favour of A.B running the club but Craig Levein appearing to have a job for life in one capacity or another is not acceptable. 

His team are not performing and if he fails, he should go. No more DoF role, just go. 

He's had two transfer windows now to address the gaping holes in the team (one and a half really) and he hasn't done that.

I think he's steadied the ship after his disastrous employing of Cathro but next window and first 12 games of next season there has to be a huge improvement or he has to go and we have to look elsewhere.

How many chances are we going to give this guy? This must be his last chance.

 

Great post cosa.  

[sadj]

20 minutes ago, cosanostra said:

 

That's absolute nonsense.

We 100% do not always agree. In fact, we rarely do all agree on club matters.

I'm still in favour of A.B running the club but Craig Levein appearing to have a job for life in one capacity or another is not acceptable. 

His team are not performing and if he fails, he should go. No more DoF role, just go. 

He's had two transfer windows now to address the gaping holes in the team (one and a half really) and he hasn't done that.

I think he's steadied the ship after his disastrous employing of Cathro but next window and first 12 games of next season there has to be a huge improvement or he has to go and we have to look elsewhere.

How many chances are we going to give this guy? This must be his last chance.

You shouldn’t have to come on and justify your position though or JKBs it is a ludicrous statement to say everyone agrees on all points. You all contribute and most are fairly open about their positions. That does not mean you are incapable of doing a moderating job or administrating the board correctly. They are two very different things. 

 

Iv had issues with mods where I feel they have not acted appropriately but it is a judgement call and the place to raise that is directly to them or to the admin. Not on a thread. 

 

The op has points which deserve some interaction and debate. The statements about JKB and their position isnt one. Lets sever a working relationship between the forum and the club. Theres a difference between saying “wtf is going on with the stand and overspend” and “where are we at with the new stand are we behind schedule and if so why and why has the expense risen” however it is the same question asked two ways. 

 

We all benefit or have potential to benefit from the forums link and relationship to the club. 

 

 

[Tams bird]

6 hours ago, jambo1961 said:

Its message-board, dont take it all to heart

 

Lets face it  a huge chunk of the Hearts support rarely post on here

 

And the ones that do, don’t go to the games.

[sadj]

2 minutes ago, Tams bird said:

And the ones that do, don’t go to the games.

Some of the ones that post dont go to games. Plenty also go to most games

[Marooned Abroad]

1 hour ago, Tams bird said:

And the ones that do, don’t go to the games.

Ridiculous statement with no back up proof. My guess - and it’s a guess - is that most posters do go to games. That is obvious from their comments on here.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

It is good to have a Kickback existential debate once in a while. My view is constant in that the quality of poster has dropped significantly over the past few years, replaced with a decent intake of people who make Forrest Gump look like a member of MENSA.

[Big Moysey]

Seems to me it's like a battle of the minorities at the moment. In one corner are the win 5-0 at Easter Rd and it's all Levein's fault. It should have been 6 so let's shout about it and in the other corner is lose 5-0 at E R and they see where Craig is coming from. All is rosy and they round on anyone that dares to say or think otherwise. 

Then, of course, there is still the majority out with those camps..... It's a forum about views!

[Finlay James]

10 hours ago, Jamhammer said:

I'm of the opinion, as an older punter that, unlike years ago people don't just see their own team anymore, they see EPL, Italian, Spanish, German, Dutch leagues etc and, even domestic coverage is way more in depth than it was. Even when I started supporting Hearts in 1983 if you weren't actually at the game you were out of luck unless we were playing one of the OF or, occasionally an Edinburgh derby the highlights were on telly.

Nowadays punters see a lot of football and are a lot less likely to put up with pishy performances and react immediately when things aren't going well.

I have no problem with those in our support who don't like the set up/Levein or even Mrs Budge. They're entitled to their opinions. What I do have a problem with is them hi-jacking every thread to have a kick at them. It's boring as ****!

 

Couldnt put it better myself.

[colinmaroon]

12 hours ago, Haken said:

Seems to be a thing at the moment for supporters from the 50s who never post to come on and post that Levein's shite and those of us who think otherwise are a pack of dogs who pick on those who also think that Levein's shite.  Absolutely dreadful, turgid, patronising dross.  Looking forward to your next effort.  Don't leave it so long.

 

 

It's all a bit obvious, isn't it?

 

"Reasonable" poster comes on and puts the boot right into those who support Levein (at this particular moment) accusing them of the very thing that the pack of dogs who are against not just Levein but almost anything at Hearts at the moment, are doing.

 

As transparent as a newly wiped window!

[davie1980]

12 hours ago, cuddledoon said:

 

I was a member of the original Kickback and have been a member of this KB since 2006.  

 

 

If you have been around that long, you must know.... Kickback's for Arseholes

 

Always has been, always will be!

[Beast Boy]

Not often I say this, but... I agree with about 90% of what Lawson put. Apart from the bit about the posters who left being witty or funny. Only so often a person can read about Alice Bands or Hip Hop.