Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[Unknown user]

Beyond ****ing parody.

[jake]

6 hours ago, Justin Z said:

This is an absolute disaster, and literally the last thing I needed as I continue to try to jump through every single Tory-imposed hoop to emigrate here.

 

Honestly. I'm beyond gutted.

 

Why?

What are the problems for you if you dont mind me being personal?

[jake]

6 hours ago, RobboM said:

So the policy is Keep the shitty or low paid jobs just for British workers and just the high paid work for immigrants?
New side of a bus slogan
"Shitty Jobs for British Workers"
"Shitty Pay for British Workers"

Perhaps it will protect the lowest paid from being the ones who always get squeezed.

Immigration needs to be planned .

That's not to say this system will have flaws but isnt it flexible ?

 

It's always been annoying for me that those who hail freedom of movement cry but who will clean our toilets we need immigrants cant see the toryishness in that.

Using immigration to fill low paid low skilled jobs is a race to the bottom.

 

 

[Unknown user]

5 minutes ago, jake said:

Why?

What are the problems for you if you dont mind me being personal?

Ignoring that, does it bother you that as a nation we need a lot more immigration to pay taxes and cover the increasing amount of pensioners, and that we're sleepwalking toward a pension crisis by cutting the amount of immigrants?

[jake]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Ignoring that, does it bother you that as a nation we need a lot more immigration to pay taxes and cover the increasing amount of pensioners, and that we're sleepwalking toward a pension crisis by cutting the amount of immigrants?

Amounts isnt the question or answer.

It's about control and planning.

And about integration.

We have a form of apartheid in this country.

 

 

 

[Unknown user]

30 minutes ago, jake said:

Amounts isnt the question or answer.

It's about control and planning.

And about integration.

We have a form of apartheid in this country.

 

No, we need a younger influx to support our aging population, that's a mathematical fact.

[Justin Z]

7 minutes ago, jake said:

Why?

What are the problems for you if you dont mind me being personal?

 

Sure. Basically, I'm caught up in the effects of the policies. They're not targeting me, per se, an American, native English speaking, white person with a uni education. But because of all the barriers they have put down, employers are shy about hiring foreigners. They have to do a bunch of extra leg work, pay a fee to the government, and well, even be authorised as a licensed sponsor in the first place to even hire me. Then they might be audited and fined or their license revoked for hiring too many immigrants--they can be inspected at any time, unannounced. They also have to do a 28-day market study, at their expense, to determine there's no British citizen who can take the job, before they're allowed to offer it to a restricted immigrant at all.

 

At this moment, I'm unrestricted because I was a student, which means I'm not actually subject to any of that stuff until my visa expires . . . on 10 March. As long as the job is RQF level 6 (undergraduate degree required), and meets the minimum salary, and it's through a licensed visa sponsor, I'm eligible. But employers don't know this--they just know the system is really overbearing and about the last thing from a "conservative, free market" with its invisible hand. So I've been getting hardly any interviews, in a period of months, even though I'm highly qualified and have put in probably 400 applications. I'm at my last gasp with my visa expiring, and then it looks like the system is not going to be changed in a way that will make this any easier subsequently. It's been dehumanising and demoralising. And I can't imagine what it's like for people with fewer qualifications and experience--or who aren't white or don't come from a native English speaking country or any of these other things.

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

Ignoring that, does it bother you that as a nation we need a lot more immigration to pay taxes and cover the increasing amount of pensioners, and that we're sleepwalking toward a pension crisis by cutting the amount of immigrants?

How have we cut the number of immigrants? We have a near record rate of net immigration and even the hated Tories have given up.on the idea of reducing it significantly. All Brexit does is make it potentially  a less narrowly racist policy.

[jake]

37 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

No, we need a younger influx to support our aging population, that's a mathematical fact.

Yes it is .

Under current technology and off course wealth.

 

But to rely on the poor of one country to support a rich country ?

 

Anyway free movement and all that.

[jake]

27 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Sure. Basically, I'm caught up in the effects of the policies. They're not targeting me, per se, an American, native English speaking, white person with a uni education. But because of all the barriers they have put down, employers are shy about hiring foreigners. They have to do a bunch of extra leg work, pay a fee to the government, and well, even be authorised as a licensed sponsor in the first place to even hire me. Then they might be audited and fined or their license revoked for hiring too many immigrants--they can be inspected at any time, unannounced. They also have to do a 28-day market study, at their expense, to determine there's no British citizen who can take the job, before they're allowed to offer it to a restricted immigrant at all.

 

At this moment, I'm unrestricted because I was a student, which means I'm not actually subject to any of that stuff until my visa expires . . . on 10 March. As long as the job is RQF level 6 (undergraduate degree required), and meets the minimum salary, and it's through a licensed visa sponsor, I'm eligible. But employers don't know this--they just know the system is really overbearing and about the last thing from a "conservative, free market" with its invisible hand. So I've been getting hardly any interviews, in a period of months, even though I'm highly qualified and have put in probably 400 applications. I'm at my last gasp with my visa expiring, and then it looks like the system is not going to be changed in a way that will make this any easier subsequently. It's been dehumanising and demoralising. And I can't imagine what it's like for people with fewer qualifications and experience--or who aren't white or don't come from a native English speaking country or any of these other things.

I'm assuming if your skills are needed then the market will make it smooth.

I'm assuming there will be an advice market .

Probably tax payer funded

Definitely private

I'm assuming roots based organisations will be available.

It's pretty standard stuff no?

[Justin Z]

1 hour ago, jake said:

I'm assuming if your skills are needed then the market will make it smooth.

I'm assuming there will be an advice market .

Probably tax payer funded

Definitely private

I'm assuming roots based organisations will be available.

It's pretty standard stuff no?

 

No. It's extremely nonstandard. You're assuming a lot without any training or direct experience of either. You asked, I answered. If you're not going to believe a word of it and instead are going to press on with the story you've already invented in your head, skip the asking next time, ta.

 

 

Edited February 19, 2020 by Justin Z

[The Mighty Thor]

The immigration policy is another poorly thought out policy. A short term hit for the core voter. Like attacking the BBC.

It all plays to the core.

The UK is rapidly becoming a pretty nasty, narrow minded place.

The gulf between Scotland and the rest widens almost by the day. 

[Victorian]

The policy is one matter on it's own.    It certainly is tailored to appeal to a demographic and the effects will naturally land like a huge bag of shite on everyone else.    But the additional bollocks about the supposed 8,500,000 economically inactive British people taking up the slack in the employment market is quite another matter.

 

Glib,  unashamed nonsense of the rancid variety.

[jake]

12 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

No. It's extremely nonstandard. You're assuming a lot without any training or direct experience of either.

Suppose my assumptions are based on people working throughout the world.

 

[jake]

Quick quick send for the poor 

We haven't enough to clean the toilets

[Justin Z]

5 minutes ago, jake said:

Suppose my assumptions are based on people working throughout the world.

 

Which, as you keep proving, like most of your assumptions are based on absolutely nothing but your own imagination.

[jake]

9 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Which, as you keep proving, like most of your assumptions are based on absolutely nothing but your own imagination.

Honestly.

[Justin Z]

8 minutes ago, jake said:

Honestly.

 

Honestly what?

 

 

The minimum starting salary under the current rules, if you're a student coming off studies, is £20,800. But for many occupations, it's higher. For many law-related occupations it's above £30k--and £30k is also the current minimum if you're not transferring over from a student visa, so I'll be subject to that from 10 March.

 

There's a reason Nicola Sturgeon said what the Tories have proposed "labels vital workers, making a big contribution as ‘low skilled’ & slams the door in their faces."

 

Edited February 19, 2020 by Justin Z

[Unknown user]

2 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

How have we cut the number of immigrants? We have a near record rate of net immigration and even the hated Tories have given up.on the idea of reducing it significantly. All Brexit does is make it potentially  a less narrowly racist policy.

Literally saw bj announcing immigration  numbers are being cut yesterday 

[Cade]

Priti's Brexit Workforce:

 

Students: 2.3million (we'll just cut college and uni places to force people to go to work right out of high school)

Long term sick: 2.1million (unicorn magic will cure them all)

Retirees under 65: 1.1million (back to work you lazy old duffers)

Full time carers: 1.9million (we'll put you to work in the care sector anyways)

Others: 1.1million (the only actually available workers)

Total: 8.8million

 

Edited February 19, 2020 by Cade

[Francis Albert]

5 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

Sure. Basically, I'm caught up in the effects of the policies. They're not targeting me, per se, an American, native English speaking, white person with a uni education. But because of all the barriers they have put down, employers are shy about hiring foreigners. They have to do a bunch of extra leg work, pay a fee to the government, and well, even be authorised as a licensed sponsor in the first place to even hire me. Then they might be audited and fined or their license revoked for hiring too many immigrants--they can be inspected at any time, unannounced. They also have to do a 28-day market study, at their expense, to determine there's no British citizen who can take the job, before they're allowed to offer it to a restricted immigrant at all.

 

At this moment, I'm unrestricted because I was a student, which means I'm not actually subject to any of that stuff until my visa expires . . . on 10 March. As long as the job is RQF level 6 (undergraduate degree required), and meets the minimum salary, and it's through a licensed visa sponsor, I'm eligible. But employers don't know this--they just know the system is really overbearing and about the last thing from a "conservative, free market" with its invisible hand. So I've been getting hardly any interviews, in a period of months, even though I'm highly qualified and have put in probably 400 applications. I'm at my last gasp with my visa expiring, and then it looks like the system is not going to be changed in a way that will make this any easier subsequently. It's been dehumanising and demoralising. And I can't imagine what it's like for people with fewer qualifications and experience--or who aren't white or don't come from a native English speaking country or any of these other things.

This is going to sound rude but you are not shy of expressing contempt for posters whose views differ from yours. Hundreds of thousands of people emigrate to the UK each year more than half I think from outside the EU. So unless you think UK immigration policy is institutionally prejudiced against well educated white English native speakers maybe you need to consider whether there are other reasons you are encountering such difficulty despite your self-proclaimed advantages.

But best of luck in the next few weeks.

[Francis Albert]

2 hours ago, Smithee said:

Literally saw bj announcing immigration  numbers are being cut yesterday 

He would say that wouldn't he. Cameron said net immigration would be cut to below 100,000. Let's see.

[Francis Albert]

3 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

Honestly what?

 

 

The minimum starting salary under the current rules, if you're a student coming off studies, is £20,800. But for many occupations, it's higher. For many law-related occupations it's above £30k--and £30k is also the current minimum if you're not transferring over from a student visa, so I'll be subject to that from 10 March.

 

There's a reason Nicola Sturgeon said what the Tories have proposed "labels vital workers, making a big contribution as ‘low skilled’ & slams the door in their faces."

 

Says a lot about society's valuation.of lawyers versus nurses and care assistants doesn't it? In all the cases you quote apart from care assistants a very modest increase in salaries would solve the problem. And from.my experience  of care assistants a large increase in qualifications and salaries is desperately needed.

Edited February 20, 2020 by Francis Albert

[Unknown user]

55 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

He would say that wouldn't he. Cameron said net immigration would be cut to below 100,000. Let's see.

I'm talking about the government's plans though ffs

[Unknown user]

8 hours ago, jake said:

Quick quick send for the poor 

We haven't enough to clean the toilets

There is no benefit to "the poor" by closing off their options, it's a weak AF argument that reducing immigration is a boon to the poor of other countries. 

 

Boris Johnson, protector of the international working man 

[ri Alban]

9 hours ago, jake said:

Quick quick send for the poor 

We haven't enough to clean the toilets

What you oan aboot noo. Poor? This is women's work. Hopefully Boris will get us back to pre 1990s, where the men work and women dae ??? remind me!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ri Alban]

Did anyone watch Question Time last night? Brexit is going to get ugly for some folk down south. Hopefully not as ugly as that horrible woman from the third Reich.

[Unknown user]

2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Did anyone watch Question Time last night? Brexit is going to get ugly for some folk down south. Hopefully not as ugly as that horrible woman from the third Reich.

Thatcher?

[ri Alban]

37 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Thatcher?

No, an audience member on QT, but not a bad guess.

[Mikey1874]

On 19/02/2020 at 11:11, RobboM said:

So the policy is Keep the shitty or low paid jobs just for British workers and just the high paid work for immigrants?
New side of a bus slogan
"Shitty Jobs for British Workers"
"Shitty Pay for British Workers"

 

It's what is implied. Or a variation.

 

"Top jobs for immigrants to make us richer" 

 

"Employers must pay more for Brits to do the shitty jobs" 

[Mikey1874]

13 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Did anyone watch Question Time last night? Brexit is going to get ugly for some folk down south. Hopefully not as ugly as that horrible woman from the third Reich.

 

100% BBC Question Time set that up. I didn't see it but its disappointing the panelists didn't counter in better detail her points. 

 

I am sorry for people's personal circumstances. Some people on here have mentioned problems with immigration etc.

 

But I find myself thinking as follows -  "we've tried that EU single market thing and you can give that credit for improving living standards considerably and generally making life better for most people. But why not. Let's give this new thing a go. See what happens". 

 

 

[Mikey1874]

Meanwhile we are - or the farmers are

facing the prospect of no one to pick their produce, for example.

 

We need to move wholeheartedly to cannabis and heroin production. The service people who were in Afghanistan, some involved in destroying crops can help. 

 

I'm not 100% but I don't think it is as labour intensive. Retired people would be good as Priti Patel said. And we know there are concerns about quality especially heroin. UK could become known as the best quality in the world. Win win. 

Edited February 21, 2020 by Mikey1874

[SectionDJambo]

14 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Did anyone watch Question Time last night? Brexit is going to get ugly for some folk down south. Hopefully not as ugly as that horrible woman from the third Reich.

Don’t usually watch it but stayed with the channel last night. That woman was as extreme an out and out racist as could possibly get away with it on tv. 
Obviously don’t know what has produced those thoughts in her head, but I hope there’s not too many more like her creeping around. She really should have been asked to clarify her attitude toward people of other races and origin, as if it wasn’t clear enough. Just to totally expose her for what she is. There was real hatred in her “speech”.

[Victorian]

Jeez.   The Tory Welsh Office minister is on C4 News.    Arrogant wank of a man.    ****ing disgusting arrogance in the wake of the misery of all the flood affected people.     Nuclear strength arsehole of the highest order.

[gjcc]

4 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

Meanwhile we are - or the farmers are

facing the prospect of no one to pick their produce, for example.

 

We need to move wholeheartedly to cannabis and heroin production. The service people who were in Afghanistan, some involved in destroying crops can help. 

 

I'm not 100% but I don't think it is as labour intensive. Retired people would be good as Priti Patel said. And we know there are concerns about quality especially heroin. UK could become known as the best quality in the world. Win win. 

“Sorry, thanks to the government you can’t afford to retire properly, but here’s a nice job growing weed”

[gjcc]

3 hours ago, SectionDJambo said:

Don’t usually watch it but stayed with the channel last night. That woman was as extreme an out and out racist as could possibly get away with it on tv. 
Obviously don’t know what has produced those thoughts in her head, but I hope there’s not too many more like her creeping around. She really should have been asked to clarify her attitude toward people of other races and origin, as if it wasn’t clear enough. Just to totally expose her for what she is. There was real hatred in her “speech”.

It was Farage in drag.  

[SectionDJambo]

52 minutes ago, gjcc said:

It was Farage in drag.  

She made Farage look reasonable and loveable towards people who aren’t from these islands. Scary as hell.

[The Mighty Thor]

12 hours ago, SectionDJambo said:

Don’t usually watch it but stayed with the channel last night. That woman was as extreme an out and out racist as could possibly get away with it on tv. 
Obviously don’t know what has produced those thoughts in her head, but I hope there’s not too many more like her creeping around. She really should have been asked to clarify her attitude toward people of other races and origin, as if it wasn’t clear enough. Just to totally expose her for what she is. There was real hatred in her “speech”.

It was all over twitter that she was pictured, union jack bedecked at a 'free Tommy' rally.

The question is what game is the BBC playing allowing racists like that onto the programme and giving them so much airtime?

My missus pointed out that there would be huge numbers of people sitting at home nodding along with her racist rant. 

 

[ri Alban]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

It was all over twitter that she was pictured, union jack bedecked at a 'free Tommy' rally.

The question is what game is the BBC playing allowing racists like that onto the programme and giving them so much airtime?

My missus pointed out that there would be huge numbers of people sitting at home nodding along with her racist rant. 

 

She's the type that goes to Spain and expects the locals to speak English and have all items described in English. The thing is, most of the locals probably can speak another language, unlike this place.

[...a bit disco]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

It was all over twitter that she was pictured, union jack bedecked at a 'free Tommy' rally.

The question is what game is the BBC playing allowing racists like that onto the programme and giving them so much airtime?

My missus pointed out that there would be huge numbers of people sitting at home nodding along with her racist rant. 

 

 

[Montgomery Brewster]

14 hours ago, Victorian said:

Jeez.   The Tory Welsh Office minister is on C4 News.    Arrogant wank of a man.    ****ing disgusting arrogance in the wake of the misery of all the flood affected people.     Nuclear strength arsehole of the highest order.

You could just have equally said ‘ the Tory’ 

 

they are all the same. 

[JT1959]

1 hour ago, ...a bit disco said:

 

Maybe Alison Fuller Pedley knows why this woman was front and centre on QT.

[jake]

11 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

 

Interesting to see how this plays out.Although the EU has a habit of getting deals through last minute.

 

But ignore all that some blonde is political chat.

 

[Cade]

I'm sure the 27 nations will manage to come to a deal to spread the 75billion budget shortfall between them just fine.

They'll cut back some programmes to lower the budget, everybody will pay a wee bit more, the richer nations paying in more than the poorer ones.

Nil desperandum in the EU.

[The Mighty Thor]

14 minutes ago, Cade said:

I'm sure the 27 nations will manage to come to a deal to spread the 75billion budget shortfall between them just fine.

They'll cut back some programmes to lower the budget, everybody will pay a wee bit more, the richer nations paying in more than the poorer ones.

Nil desperandum in the EU.

75 billion you say. Approximately half of the amount of money spunked up wall by the petty racists on exiting the world's largest marketplace. 👍

[dobmisterdobster]

28 minutes ago, Cade said:

I'm sure the 27 nations will manage to come to a deal to spread the 75billion budget shortfall between them just fine.

They'll cut back some programmes to lower the budget, everybody will pay a wee bit more, the richer nations paying in more than the poorer ones.

Nil desperandum in the EU.

 

Insert Comical Ali meme here 

[Cade]

Just now, dobmisterdobster said:

 

Insert Comical Ali meme here 

One petulant spoilt child has walked off in a huff.

Many other nations are in the process of joining and the EU continues to sign massive global trade deals.

 

[Mikey1874]

13 hours ago, gjcc said:

“Sorry, thanks to the government you can’t afford to retire properly, but here’s a nice job growing weed”

 

Patriotic

 

 

[Mikey1874]

 

[Cade]

8 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

*and could have been blue at any time over the last 40-odd years, as passport colour was NEVER an EU regulation.