Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[Pans Jambo]

31 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

That wasn’t what I asked.  What if we end up having another referendum on Brexit and vote to remain.  

 

In that scenario independence would could significant upheaval and economic shock to Scotland which would, by SNP’s own estimation, years to recover from.  

 

I assume you would still want independence to happen despite that? Yes or no will do! 

 

P.s.  Those aircraft carriers have kept at least 7000 people employed in Scotland for over a decade. Many of whom have skills that are not easily transferable.  I should know I was one.  In your vision for Scotland could you explain what you would do to provide work for those people?  

It would be short term pain for long term gain and in any case NOT any worse than what 10 years of tory austerity or Boris brexit will foist upon us. so Yes, I would take a bit pain for the long term benefit of looking after our own affairs.

 

P.S. - Be cheaper to give 7000 people £200,000 each than what the aircraft carriers bring in and in any case (an debate for another day), where else would Westminster have built them? In another EU country but not in the EU country just next door???

 

If you are Scottish, Why do you want another country running your country? 

Edited September 26, 2019 by Pans Jambo

[Mikey1874]

11 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

It would be short term pain for long term gain and in any case NOT any worse than what 10 years of tory austerity or Boris brexit will foist upon us. so Yes, I would take a bit pain for the long term benefit of looking after our own affairs.

 

P.S. - Be cheaper to give 7000 people £200,000 each than what the aircraft carriers bring in and in any case (an debate for another day), where else would Westminster have built them? In another EU country but not in the EU country just next door???

 

If you are Scottish, Why do you want another country running your country? 

 

Is the SNP proposing to give every person made redundant £200,000?

 

I hadn't heard that. Brilliant policy. Can you send me the links. 

 

Britain / United Kingdom is the country. So it's a fallacy to assume only Scotland can look after it's own affairs. Though mostly it does. 

[Pans Jambo]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Is the SNP proposing to give every person made redundant £200,000?

 

I hadn't heard that. Brilliant policy. Can you send me the links. 

 

Britain / United Kingdom is the country. So it's a fallacy to assume only Scotland can look after it's own affairs. Though mostly it does. 

Worst post I have ever read on this thread.

 

No, (ya daftie) the SNP is NOT proposing a £200k pay off but then you knew that.

 

Britain / United Kingdom IS NOT a country (but then you knew that as well).

 

"Only" Scotland? Not sure what you mean but the balance of powers rests firmly at the door of Westminster not Holyrood (but then you knew that one too).

[Mikey1874]

6 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Worst post I have ever read on this thread.

 

No, (ya daftie) the SNP is NOT proposing a £200k pay off but then you knew that.

 

Britain / United Kingdom IS NOT a country (but then you knew that as well).

 

"Only" Scotland? Not sure what you mean but the balance of powers rests firmly at the door of Westminster not Holyrood (but then you knew that one too).

 

Well there is a mature, reasoned response.

 

You been watching too much of Parliament?

[Brighton Jambo]

26 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

It would be short term pain for long term gain and in any case NOT any worse than what 10 years of tory austerity or Boris brexit will foist upon us. so Yes, I would take a bit pain for the long term benefit of looking after our own affairs.

 

P.S. - Be cheaper to give 7000 people £200,000 each than what the aircraft carriers bring in and in any case (an debate for another day), where else would Westminster have built them? In another EU country but not in the EU country just next door???

 

If you are Scottish, Why do you want another country running your country? 

I don’t see the UK as ‘another country’ 

[Unknown user]

11 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Worst post I have ever read on this thread.

 

No, (ya daftie) the SNP is NOT proposing a £200k pay off but then you knew that.

 

Britain / United Kingdom IS NOT a country (but then you knew that as well).

 

"Only" Scotland? Not sure what you mean but the balance of powers rests firmly at the door of Westminster not Holyrood (but then you knew that one too).

 

The UK absolutely is a country by means of being a sovereign state for the last 300 years

[Mikey1874]

16 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Worst post I have ever read on this thread.

 

No, (ya daftie) the SNP is NOT proposing a £200k pay off but then you knew that.

 

Britain / United Kingdom IS NOT a country (but then you knew that as well).

 

"Only" Scotland? Not sure what you mean but the balance of powers rests firmly at the door of Westminster not Holyrood (but then you knew that one too).

 

So why did you say Scotland could give the redundant workers £200,000?

 

What do you proopse to give them?

 

Edit - it is fair enough to close services but you raised the matter of paying them. Why would you be bothered about other people over the goal of achieving Independence. 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2019 by Mikey1874

[XB52]

6 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

So why did you say Scotland could give the redundant workers £200,000?

 

What do you proopse to give them?

 

Edit - it is fair enough to close services but you raised the matter of paying them. Why would you be bothered about other people over the goal of achieving Independence. 

 

 

Stupid question when you know exactly what he meant. As for the redundant workers, Scotland will need a coastal defence force with the appropriate ships.  The total waste of money on these 2 carriers could have been used so much better. Anyway, this is a Brexit thread. Have a pop at the SNP elsewhere

[Mikey1874]

1 minute ago, XB52 said:

Stupid question when you know exactly what he meant. As for the redundant workers, Scotland will need a coastal defence force with the appropriate ships.  The total waste of money on these 2 carriers could have been used so much better. Anyway, this is a Brexit thread. Have a pop at the SNP elsewhere

 

I'll question any point raised.

 

If you think Brexit is not related to Independence you better tell Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP MPs.

 

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 hour ago, Gashauskis9 said:

I’m speechless.  I can’t believe Boris went there re Jo Cox.  Disgusting.

 

Jo was a victim of the divisive social and political environment in the UK created by right wing fantasists like him and Farage.  He should be ashamed.

Him and his pal are cheeks of the same arse.

[Mikey1874]

They've started in Parliament.

 

Seems they will be trying to calm things down a bit today. 

[Cade]

3 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

They've started in Parliament.

 

Seems they will be trying to calm things down a bit today. 

Fat chance.

 

IDS has just stated that it's remainers to blame for the death threats and rising tensions for trying to block brexit.

[Cade]

Boris spends a few days with Trump and comes back acting like a complete bell chief

Edited September 26, 2019 by Cade

[The Real Maroonblood]

12 minutes ago, Cade said:

Boris spends a few days with Trump and comes back acting like a complete bell chief

I agree.

He doesn’t deserve to be called by his first name. 

Johnson would suffice.

[Unknown user]

3 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

I agree.

He doesn’t deserve to be called by his first name. 

Johnson would suffice.

 

That must be why we call him Boris, his first name's Alexander!

[Pans Jambo]

1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Well there is a mature, reasoned response.

 

You been watching too much of Parliament?

"AWWWDUUUURRR"

[The Real Maroonblood]

5 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

That must be why we call him Boris, his first name's Alexander!

So Boris is a term of endearment?

[Pans Jambo]

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

 

The UK absolutely is a country by means of being a sovereign state for the last 300 years

Its actually meant to be a "Union" of countries as in the "United" Kingdom but we all know that means shit. It's greater Englandshire.

 

A place where Scotland can lead? Aye right, did you see the amount of Eff Off Scotland that was doing the rounds when a Scottish court recently told the Westminster Government that they prorogued parliament illegally? "tail wagging the dog" etc.

 

They dont like it up them.

 

Sovereignty in Scotland lies with the people of Scotland. Its not a region its a country. The UK is not.

Edited September 26, 2019 by Pans Jambo

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

So Boris is a term of endearment?

 

 lets go with that!

 

It's one of his middle names. I suppose he didn't fancy being called Alexander and that brought the choice down to Boris or de Pfeffel. Easy choice really

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Its actually meant to be a "Union" of countries as in the "United" Kingdom but we all know that means shit. It's greater Englandshire.

 

A place where Scotland can lead? Aye right, did you see the amount of Eff Off Scotland that was doing the rounds when a Scottish court recently told the Westminster Government that they prorogued parliament illegally? "tail wagging the dog" etc.

 

They dont like it up them.

 

Sovereignty in Scotland lies with the people of Scotland. Its not a region its a country. The UK is not.

 

The UK's a country mate, centuries old sovereign states are countries. 

 

Scotland's also a country, for different reasons though, there's more than one definition of what a country is.

 

The UK definitely is a country though.

[Mikey1874]

Government confirming "we will obey law" but seeking legal advice that they can avoid requesting  an extension. 

[Cade]

"Law abiding" Tory government admits that it has (AGAIN) breached the law banning arms sales to Saudi Arabia for use in killing Yemeni civilians.

 

 

 

*oh, and Liz Truss also admits that "More breaches of this court order may be found in the future"

So otherwise "We're going to carry on illegally selling weapons to the Sauds and there is shite all you can do about it"

Edited September 26, 2019 by Cade

[RobboM]

1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

Government confirming "we will obey law" but seeking legal advice that they can avoid requesting  an extension. 

All done in "good faith"
 

10 minutes ago, Cade said:

"Law abiding" Tory government admits that it has (AGAIN) breached the law banning arms sales to Saudi Arabia for use in killing Yemeni civilians.

 

 

 

*oh, and Liz Truss also admits that "More breaches of this court order may be found in the future"

So otherwise "We're going to carry on illegally selling weapons to the Sauds and there is shite all you can do about it"

"Good faith" mate, these things happen.

Just remember that defence for any parking tickets, speeding fines, minor misdemeanours as long as you do it in "good faith" you can claim government indemnity

[Mikey1874]

Don't want to derail thread again (honest!l) but watching the Iran debate yesterday its depressing the amount of support for Saudi Arabia in Parliament. 

 

Iran and Saudi Arabia have some differences. But how Saudi Arabia is an ally of Britain is a disgrace. 

[N Lincs Jambo]

1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

Don't want to derail thread again (honest!l) but watching the Iran debate yesterday its depressing the amount of support for Saudi Arabia in Parliament. 

 

Iran and Saudi Arabia have some differences. But how Saudi Arabia is an ally of Britain is a disgrace. 

 

I travelled to both Iran and Saudi on business in the early 90s (both places twice) and I have to say that all they have in common is they are strict Islam. The Iranians I found to be courteous and respectful even to westerners whereas the Saudis (caveat here, Saudis in uniform) have to be the most arrogant, vile people I have ever met. This is not anti-Arab or muslim as I have been to many Arab and muslim countries but would never go back to Saudi.

[Cade]

Full transcript from last night:

Paula Sherriff MP:
"I genuinely do not seek to stifle robust debate, but this evening the prime minister has continually used pejorative language to describe an act of parliament that was passed by this House.

I am sure you would agree, Mr Speaker, that we should not resort to the use of offensive, dangerous or inflammatory language about legislation that we do not like.

We stand here, Mr Speaker, under the shield of our departed friend [Jo Cox].

Many of us in this place are subject to death threats and abuse every single day.

Let me tell the prime minister that they often quote his words—surrender act, betrayal, traitor—and I, for one, am sick of it.

We must moderate our language, and that has to come from the prime minister first, so I should be interested in hearing his opinion.

He should be absolutely ashamed of himself."

 

Boris:

"I have to say that I have never heard such humbug in all my life."

 

 

Edited September 26, 2019 by Cade

[Mikey1874]

Oops

 

Parliament NOT stopping (recess) for the Conservative Party Conference..

 

Voted down.

[Cade]

Boris loses another vote.

 

Parliament will not be suspended during the Tory party conference.

 

[gjcc]

34 minutes ago, Cade said:

Boris loses another vote.

 

Parliament will not be suspended during the Tory party conference.

 

 

What is his record now? 

 

[Cade]

17 minutes ago, gjcc said:

 

What is his record now? 

 

Lots - NIL

[DETTY29]

Susie Dent's word of the day

 

'Kakistocracy'

Edited September 26, 2019 by DETTY29

[DETTY29]

 

 

[Mikey1874]

30 minutes ago, gjcc said:

 

What is his record now? 

 

 

0-7

 

Plus Supreme Court

[Cade]

[The Real Maroonblood]

22 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

 

 

Fair play to her.

That’ll be Johnson not speaking to her and his brother 

Lucky them.

[redjambo]

32 minutes ago, Cade said:

Lots - NIL

 

Well technically he could argue, and I'm sure he would knowing him, that he did "win" two votes, he just didn't quite obtain the required overall percentage in each.

[AlimOzturk]

Boris johnson family cant even stand him. Has a sister/brother of a sitting PM ever publicly criticised their own flesh in blood and resigned in the manner they have done? 

 

It is beyond belief now. 

[Mysterion]

1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

Oops

 

Parliament NOT stopping (recess) for the Conservative Party Conference..

 

Voted down.

Other parties have to have their Conference during a parliamentary session. This shouldn’t be an issue.

[Notts1874]

Man arrested trying to break into Jess Phillip's parliamentary office calling her a facist....

[Victorian]

They crying about "former colleagues" not voting for recess.

 

Might have helped your cause if you hadn't lobbed them out the party.    Amirite?

[Cade]

7 minutes ago, Victorian said:

They crying about "former colleagues" not voting for recess.

 

Might have helped your cause if you hadn't lobbed them out the party.    Amirite?

I too am mystified as to how antagonising the whole of Parliament is supposed to help get a Deal passed.

Boris forgets that he needs MPs votes more than he needs the approval ratings of Wetherspoons regulars.

 

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, Cade said:

I too am mystified as to how antagonising the whole of Parliament is supposed to help get a Deal passed.

Boris forgets that he needs MPs votes more than he needs the approval ratings of Wetherspoons regulars.

 

 

The entire strategy is now to set people against parliamentarians.     Straight out of the Trump populist playbook.     It's got the weirdo Cummings oily fingerprints all over it.     

 

The electioneering or general chamber debating tactics to garner public opinion used to be nuanced and responsible.     Gone.     They've raced to the bottom of the sewer.     

[Cade]

8 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

The entire strategy is now to set people against parliamentarians.     Straight out of the Trump populist playbook.     It's got the weirdo Cummings oily fingerprints all over it.     

 

The electioneering or general chamber debating tactics to garner public opinion used to be nuanced and responsible.     Gone.     They've raced to the bottom of the sewer.     

The problem with that is that it more or less forces everyone who voted for Brexit to get into bed with and implicitly agree with the hard right loons.

Soft Brexit is now viewed as treason.

It's either hard right mouth foaming or nothing at all.

It could backfire in a big way (see the last election for proof of that).

 

It's telling that Boris just spent a few days in New York with Trump.

He's come back acting like a complete dick.

[ri Alban]

The Saviours of Scotland, should just sit back, relax and let independence take care of itself.

 

Britain is finished.

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, Cade said:

The problem with that is that it more or less forces everyone who voted for Brexit to get into bed with and implicitly agree with the hard right loons.

Soft Brexit is now viewed as treason.

It's either hard right mouth foaming or nothing at all.

It could backfire in a big way (see the last election for proof of that).

 

It's telling that Boris just spent a few days in New York with Trump.

He's come back acting like a complete dick.

 

Agreed.    The evidence is the number of people you see interviewed on tv who parrot out the old "we have to get it done and leave" stuff.     People you know have no particular inclination to drill down into the detail of the implications and next steps.     They've simply been conditioned into a simplistic belief that there is an enormous necessity to leave right now,   with no deal if necessary and sometimes preferably.      Best intentioned people trying to find a less damaging path,   yet still respectful and accepting of an eventual Brexit,    bluntly categorised as remainers intent on stealing the will of the people.     

[Notts1874]

 

 

[Cade]

7 minutes ago, Notts1874 said:

 

 

 

Allegedly

[Cade]

https://www.integritywatch.eu/mepincomes

 

 

Brexit Party MEPs are stuffing their pockets.

The party of the downtrodden masses are all rich as feck.

They're taking the piss.

[RobboM]

30 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Agreed.    The evidence is the number of people you see interviewed on tv who parrot out the old "we have to get it done and leave" stuff.     People you know have no particular inclination to drill down into the detail of the implications and next steps.     They've simply been conditioned into a simplistic belief that there is an enormous necessity to leave right now,   with no deal if necessary and sometimes preferably.      Best intentioned people trying to find a less damaging path,   yet still respectful and accepting of an eventual Brexit,    bluntly categorised as remainers intent on stealing the will of the people.     

The "leaving" is not even the end of Brexit ..... the aftermath and implementation will take years

[Pans Jambo]

42 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

The Saviours of Scotland, should just sit back, relax and let independence take care of itself.

 

Britain is finished.

Meanwhile...