Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[Victorian]

Just now, Francis Albert said:

Shame no-one argued this before the vote went the wrong way. 80% of MPs went along with the simple binary  one-off referendum. And a similar proportion were then elected on a promise to "respect the vote".  Which left them free rein to approve any form of Leave they chose. But they have failed to agree any form of Leave. I think I know who is corrupting democracy.

 

You sort of cherry picked and self redacted the post,   didn't ye?

[Francis Albert]

15 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Shit.   There was me making a serious comment anaw.

Serious? OK I didn't spot the joke. I mean I assume the idea that one serving soldier is accused of something  or other has some relevance to the Irish border issue is some sort of joke.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Francis Albert

[Francis Albert]

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

 

You sort of cherry picked and self redacted the post,   didn't ye?

Self-redacted? At least I tried to address your point.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Francis Albert

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, Francis Albert said:

Self-redacted? At least I tried to address your point.

 

An interpretation of my post.    A misrepresentation.    

[XB52]

1 hour ago, manaliveits105 said:

Jimmy Krankie lower than a snakes belly 

Please try really hard to grow up

[Francis Albert]

4 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

An interpretation of my post.    A misrepresentation.    

An interpretation yes. Misrepresentation? I'll leave others to judge. 

[Pans Jambo]

Anyway, its not too late to admit you were duped by a horses ass if you voted for Brexit. 

Youre allowed to change your mind knowing what you know now. 

Its really OK. 

[N Lincs Jambo]

3 hours ago, Cade said:

"If a democracy cannot change its mind, it ceases to be a democracy."

David Davis, arch Brexiteer.

 

He also said:

"There is a proper role for referendums in constitutional change, but only if done properly.

If it is not done properly, it can be a dangerous tool.

Referendums should be held when the electorate are in the best possible position to make a judgment.

They should be held when people can view all the arguments for and against and when those arguments have been rigorously tested.

In short, referendums should be held when people know exactly what they are getting.

We should not ask people to vote on a blank sheet of paper and tell them to trust us to fill in the details afterwards.

For referendums to be fair and compatible with our parliamentary process, we need the electors to be as well informed as possible and to know exactly what they are voting for.

Referendums need to be treated as an addition to the parliamentary process, not as a substitute for it."

 

 

You know what Cade, shame on you for quoting a right-wing Tory wank but wasn’t he spot on here! Far too many people didn’t have a scooby what they were actually voting for in 2016 hence the mess we’re in now. Thanks for sharing 👍

[Francis Albert]

13 minutes ago, N Lincs Jambo said:

 

You know what Cade, shame on you for quoting a right-wing Tory wank but wasn’t he spot on here! Far too many people didn’t have a scooby what they were actually voting for in 2016 hence the mess we’re in now. Thanks for sharing 👍

I think people knew what they were voting for. To leave the EU. It is not that difficult a concept to grasp and they were fully informed by the remain campaign of the potential consequences. And them some!  

Edited September 27, 2019 by Francis Albert

[redjambo]

13 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I think people knew what they were voting for. To leave the EU. It is not that difficult a concept to grasp and they were fully informed by the remain campaign of the potential consequences. And them some!  

 

Ah, but many were actually voting to give all that red bus money to the NHS. And to stop the Turkish immigrants invading our countries in droves. And etc., ad nauseam. They were told that leaving the EU would achieve those aims. Hmm.....

[Francis Albert]

16 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Ah, but many were actually voting to give all that red bus money to the NHS. And to stop the Turkish immigrants invading our countries in droves. And etc., ad nauseam. They were told that leaving the EU would achieve those aims. Hmm.....

Your arrogant assumption about what they were voting for sums up the remainers response to their unfortunate defeat,

[annushorribilis III]

22 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I think people knew what they were voting for. To leave the EU. It is not that difficult a concept to grasp and they were fully informed by the remain campaign of the potential consequences. And them some!  

Here we go again. So just to be clear : this is what Leave campaign said - 

 

It may take a long time to leave but we'll leave with a deal.

No trigger of Article 50 until deal reached .

Big red bus<insert lies of choice>

D Davies - easiest deal in history. 

 

Then diminished to "Brexit dividend". Since then not a single word about "Brexit dividend". 

 

Further diminished to "there  will be enough food" - that's a quote.

 

Even further diminished to "Yellowhammer" - which is NOT the worst case scenario.

 

Gove says he didn't lead a leave campaign to leave under no deal - so what happened ? 

 

So, FA when you voted leave which part of the above where you prescient enough to foresee. Please do share. 

 

PS UK is THE country which has biggest number of immigrants in the  EU  - they didn't get a vote. And now the UK  govt has said  they will fund medical care for 6  months post brexit  for those immigrants. Did you vote for that ? 

 

"I think people knew what they were voting for." Speak for yourself. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Francis Albert]

2 hours ago, Cade said:

FA returns for another episode of "I know nothing about the Irish border"

Have you read the Good Friday agreement? What does it say about the border?  Nothing very much. In fact I think the  GFA is more supportive of the DUP position. As  well as providing for a vote by NI to leave the UK and create a united Ireland which would be binding, in the absence of such a vote Northern Ireland would remain a part of the UK, The back stop proposes a border between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK and an open border between Northern Ireland and a foreign state. I think that is more at odds with the Good Friday Agreement than an "Irish border".

[annushorribilis III]

45 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I think people knew what they were voting for. To leave the EU. It is not that difficult a concept to grasp and they were fully informed by the remain campaign of the potential consequences. And them some!  

Just one more thing FA.

Did you see BJs sister speak on Thursday - now wasn't that interesting (Google "Crispin Odey") ?

£8 billion wagered on shorting Sterling (half of that accounted for by people who directly funded "Leave")

 

You knew you voted for that ? 

[Francis Albert]

8 minutes ago, annushorribilis III said:

Here we go again. So just to be clear : this is what Leave campaign said - 

 

It may take a long time to leave but we'll leave with a deal.

No trigger of Article 50 until deal reached .

Big red bus<insert lies of choice>

D Davies - easiest deal in history. 

 

Then diminished to "Brexit dividend". Since then not a single word about "Brexit dividend". 

 

Further diminished to "there  will be enough food" - that's a quote.

 

Even further diminished to "Yellowhammer" - which is NOT the worst case scenario.

 

Gove says he didn't lead a leave campaign to leave under no deal - so what happened ? 

 

So, FA when you voted leave which part of the above where you prescient enough to foresee. Please do share. 

 

PS UK is THE country which has biggest number of immigrants in the  EU  - they didn't get a vote. And now the UK  govt has said  they will fund medical care for 6  months post brexit  for those immigrants. Did you vote for that ? 

 

"I think people knew what they were voting for." Speak for yourself. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cameron promised that Article 50 would be invoked the day after the referendum result.

 

[annushorribilis III]

1 minute ago, Francis Albert said:

Have you read the Good Friday agreement? What does it say about the border?  Nothing very much. In fact I think the  GFA is more supportive of the DUP position. As  well as providing for a vote by NI to leave the UK and create a united Ireland which would be binding, in the absence of such a vote Northern Ireland would remain a part of the UK, The back stop proposes a border between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK and an open border between Northern Ireland and a foreign state. I think that is more at odds with the Good Friday Agreement than an "Irish border".

It's called the EU. 

[Francis Albert]

11 minutes ago, annushorribilis III said:

Here we go again. So just to be clear : this is what Leave campaign said - 

 

It may take a long time to leave but we'll leave with a deal.

No trigger of Article 50 until deal reached .

Big red bus<insert lies of choice>

D Davies - easiest deal in history. 

 

Then diminished to "Brexit dividend". Since then not a single word about "Brexit dividend". 

 

Further diminished to "there  will be enough food" - that's a quote.

 

Even further diminished to "Yellowhammer" - which is NOT the worst case scenario.

 

Gove says he didn't lead a leave campaign to leave under no deal - so what happened ? 

 

So, FA when you voted leave which part of the above where you prescient enough to foresee. Please do share. 

 

PS UK is THE country which has biggest number of immigrants in the  EU  - they didn't get a vote. And now the UK  govt has said  they will fund medical care for 6  months post brexit  for those immigrants. Did you vote for that ? 

 

"I think people knew what they were voting for." Speak for yourself. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't vote leave.

[annushorribilis III]

Just now, Francis Albert said:

Cameron promised that Article 50 would be invoked the day after the referendum result.

 

Semantics.  Even if he did - and I don't dispute it - that is simply NOT legally possible and you should know that because that is NOT what legally transpired. 

I stand by "Leave" campaign promises :  we don't leave without a deal. That's what they said. 

[annushorribilis III]

2 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I didn't vote leave.

I don't care

 

Edit- now I understand. You're just a troll. 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2019 by annushorribilis III

[Francis Albert]

1 minute ago, annushorribilis III said:

I don't care. 

So why say I did?

[annushorribilis III]

1 minute ago, Francis Albert said:

So why say I did?

Read my edit, troll. 

[Francis Albert]

2 minutes ago, annushorribilis III said:

Semantics.  Even if he did - and I don't dispute it - that is simply NOT legally possible and you should know that because that is NOT what legally transpired. 

I stand by "Leave" campaign promises :  we don't leave without a deal. That's what they said. 

Why was it not legally possible? And if so why then did Cameron promise it? Or are only Leave lies lies?

[Francis Albert]

2 minutes ago, annushorribilis III said:

Read my edit, troll. 

What edit?

[annushorribilis III]

Just now, Francis Albert said:

Why was it not legally possible? And if so why then did Cameron promise it? Or are only Leave lies lies?

Why was it not legally possible?...you tell me.  Clue - "advisory" referendum 

 

Or are only Leave lies lies?...which parts of my  "Leave" campaign promises are lies ? 

[annushorribilis III]

G'night FA. I don't have time for trolls. Debate your position from Leave /Remain : I don't mind either way. 

You're just a windbag winding people up. Happy brexit/remain/whatever. 

[ri Alban]

3 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Your arrogant assumption about what they were voting for sums up the remainers response to their unfortunate defeat,

And there we have it. Their!  Don't pretend you voted remain again.

[ri Alban]

3 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Cameron promised that Article 50 would be invoked the day after the referendum result.

 

Cameron resigned. So unlucky, vote voided.

[ri Alban]

3 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

I didn't vote leave.

You did. A leave voting, no voting, Trump lover.

Tell me, who's your favourite person from all History, Hitler?

[The Mighty Thor]

Been away for a few days so catching up on this thread.

 

It would appear, like the UK generally, we have some utter cretins on here. 

 

Johnsons language and rhetoric is going to get someone seriously hurt or killed.

 

The next 5 weeks are going to see entrenchment of the Brexiteers, a ramping up of the MSM nonsense with partisan mouthpieces like Kuenssberg front and centre and a really vile political atmosphere in the lead up to Johnson having to request an extension. Then the shit will hit the fan. 

 

[ri Alban]

16 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Been away for a few days so catching up on this thread.

 

It would appear, like the UK generally, we have some utter cretins on here. 

 

Johnsons language and rhetoric is going to get someone seriously hurt or killed.

 

The next 5 weeks are going to see entrenchment of the Brexiteers, a ramping up of the MSM nonsense with partisan mouthpieces like Kuenssberg front and centre and a really vile political atmosphere in the lead up to Johnson having to request an extension. Then the shit will hit the fan. 

 

I said that to my Mrs. Johnson will have blood on his hands very soon.

[ri Alban]

4 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

What edit?

Tell me FA. Do you think it was right to ban EU citizens, living, working and paying tax in the UK from voting in the EU ref, knowing the numbers would have changed the vote to remain.

[dobmisterdobster]

56 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Tell me FA. Do you think it was right to ban EU citizens, living, working and paying tax in the UK from voting in the EU ref, knowing the numbers would have changed the vote to remain.

Yes because EU citizens do not have parliamentary franchise.

I can't just move to Germany and vote in their federal elections. That's not how freedom of movement works.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

6 hours ago, annushorribilis III said:

Why was it not legally possible?...you tell me.  Clue - "advisory" referendum 

 

Or are only Leave lies lies?...which parts of my  "Leave" campaign promises are lies ? 

 

It was never an advisory referendum though, was it? As soon as you got to the stage where 30m+ people were voting, there was no going back.

[The Real Maroonblood]

9 hours ago, XB52 said:

Please try really hard to grow up

That particular poster made fun of a young girl who has Asperger on another thread

Says all you need to know about them.

[Bindy Badgy]

7 hours ago, annushorribilis III said:

I don't care

 

Edit- now I understand. You're just a troll. 

 

 

 

I see you're new here.

[Cade]

I'm 100% convinced FA is a troll.

 

I've explained (at length, using short words) why the Irish Border is an unsolvable conundrum and how the Good Friday Agreement works to him on at least three different occasions on this very thread.

 

He maintains his delusions no matter how much I educate him.

 

 

[Justin Z]

For the uninitiated:

 

Dunning–Kruger effect

[ri Alban]

2 hours ago, dobmisterdobster said:

Yes because EU citizens do not have parliamentary franchise.

I can't just move to Germany and vote in their federal elections. That's not how freedom of movement works.

Hi Francis, Hiya Pal!

[Justin Z]

1 hour ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

 

It was never an advisory referendum though, was it? As soon as you got to the stage where 30m+ people were voting, there was no going back.

 

Oh, I dunno. I'm not an MP.

 

 

[dobmisterdobster]

8 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Hi Francis, Hiya Pal!

I'm not Francis Albert, believe it or not.

[Governor Tarkin]

19 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

For the uninitiated:

 

Dunning–Kruger effect

 

To be fair, that's pretty much all of us blow-hard, wind-bags on here.

Present company included, obv'.

[Cade]

EU citizens living in Germany can vote in local elections and in EU elections.

So EU citizens living in Germany do have franchise, just not at federal level.

 

In Luxembourg, Lithuania, Slovenia, Belgium, Sweden, Denmark, Finland and The Netherlands any immigrant (even from outside the EU) can vote in national elections.

Many other EU nations are considering moving to this method, or a variant of it to at least allow EU citizens to vote in national elections.

 

 

 

[Justin Z]

4 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

To be fair, that's pretty much all of us blow-hard, wind-bags on here.

Present company included, obv'.

 

No argument here.

[dobmisterdobster]

2 minutes ago, Cade said:

EU citizens living in Germany can vote in local elections and in EU elections.

So EU citizens living in Germany do have franchise, just not at federal level.

 

In Luxembourg, Lithuania, Slovenia, Belgium, Sweden, Denmark, Finland and The Netherlands any immigrant (even from outside the EU) can vote in national elections.

Many other EU nations are considering moving to this method, or a variant of it to at least allow EU citizens to vote in national elections.

 

 

 

EU citizens residing in the UK can vote in local council or Scottish Parliament.

 

The countries you mention chose to allow EU citizens to vote in their national elections. It wasn't forced upon them by freedom of movement rules.

[Notts1874]

9 hours ago, annushorribilis III said:

I don't care

 

Edit- now I understand. You're just a troll. 

 

 

He didn't vote at all!!!!!!!!!!

[Mikey1874]

9 hours ago, annushorribilis III said:

It's called the EU. 

 

Which is the fundamental problem with the Irish border and resolving the issue. 

 

It's the border between Britain and the EU. 

 

But btw very little chance Backstop would ever be needed. Idiots.

[Riccarton3]

4 hours ago, ri Alban said:

I said that to my Mrs. Johnson will have blood on his hands very soon.

the language is all choreographed and ain't changing any time soon.Cummings has sat them all down and told them the words to use. It's nothing new,.He knows entirely what a brexiteer wants to hear and has a compliant Tory brood to deliver it. It's an awareness of the audience unlike, say,  Cameron: I went to see Boris. I think we played tennis....

 

Another investigation into Johnson is dismissed as politically motivated (isn't everything if you are a politician). Hoax, witch hunt to follow.

 

[annushorribilis III]

2 hours ago, Stokesy said:

 

I see you're new here.

Not as new as you think but I don't usually read/post on this thread. I know better now.

[annushorribilis III]

3 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

 

It was never an advisory referendum though, was it? As soon as you got to the stage where 30m+ people were voting, there was no going back.

Wrong - and it was established/confirmed  in the courts on at least two occasions that I know of and it was also  confirmed in the HoC by a statement from  Bernard Jenkin (arch brexiter). 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

4 minutes ago, annushorribilis III said:

Wrong - and it was established/confirmed  in the courts on at least two occasions that I know of and it was also  confirmed in the HoC by a statement from  Bernard Jenkin (arch brexiter). 

 

Yes but it’s a technicality - once you suck 30m+ people into voting, you can’t just bury it and move on. It’s like having a Scottish Indy ref, yes winning and everyone going - “yeah but we were just kidding, it wasn’t actually binding.”

 

In technical terms, it was advisory. Back in the real world, was it bollocks.