Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[Malinga the Swinga]

18 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

If you make a statement on here about anything and pass it as fact should it not be challenged?

Or is it OK to spaff pish and take it as fact?

He said "Labour had several..... even the SNP had a few too.   Just sayin'."

I just asked for the names of the SNP MSP's (or MP's) that supported Brexit at the time.

Is that not allowed then?

No, it's not

[Cade]

What a strange person

[Unknown user]

6 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

Get with the programme fairness is not allowed on political threads

 

 

 

[NANOJAMBO]

3 hours ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Be prepared for trouble as you have crossed line for many on here. Asking for fairness and saying any SNP, even 1 member, supported Brexit. You'll have them on your back soon enough. 

He hasn't crossed any line. He expressed an opinion , dressed it up as fact and is refusing to engage on it. I asked him a couple of simple questions - as have others - and he's refusing to back up his claims. 

[Francis Albert]

3 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

If you make a statement on here about anything and pass it as fact should it not be challenged?

Or is it OK to spaff pish and take it as fact?

He said "Labour had several..... even the SNP had a few too.   Just sayin'."

I just asked for the names of the SNP MSP's (or MP's) that supported Brexit at the time.

Is that not allowed then?

The comment was not about SNP SMPs  or MPs but SNP politicians. If no SNP politicians supported Brexit then they are out of line with many SNP voters who did. 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Francis Albert

[Lone Striker]

4 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

Its not aimed at political parties. Its aimed at the people who were told that Brexit would be the easiest deal in history, we will maintain freedom of movement, access to the free market and believed it. 

It doesnt look like that now and its OK to admit that you were taken in by the lies and deception of the shysters like farrage and the ERG.

Just out of interest, who was it in the SNP that were pro-Brexit at the time???

Ok fair enough.  Alex Neil and Jim Sillars were pro-Brexit.

[Lone Striker]

4 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Can you point out who from Labour/SNP was in leave.uk or similar group ?

Otherwise who from Labour/SNP actively campaigned for brexit. 

Living in England I'm curious to know how widespread support was for brexit in Scotland.

Cheers. 

John Mann, Kate Hoey, Tom Harris .....off the top of my head.   Corbyn was at best a lukewarm remainer .....  Try asking uncle Google ..... I'm sure there were several others.

 

Also Gisela Stuart

Edited November 16, 2020 by Lone Striker

[Dawnrazor]

4 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

John Mann, Kate Hoey, Tom Harris .....off the top of my head.   Corbyn was at best a lukewarm remainer .....  Try asking uncle Google ..... I'm sure there were several others.

Lisa Nandy wasn't for it but voted for it as her constituency voted leave.

[Lone Striker]

4 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Can you point out who from Labour/SNP was in leave.uk or similar group ?

Otherwise who from Labour/SNP actively campaigned for brexit. 

Living in England I'm curious to know how widespread support was for brexit in Scotland.

Cheers. 

Despite a very low-key Scottish Leave campaign (Sillars & Harris basically), the Leave side still got 38%  of the vote.   Quite a remarkable result given that all the Holyrood party leaders campaigned for Remain.

 

I'm simply pointing out that the concept of leaving the EU got traction with folk from various backgrounds and political allegiances - but not me though.   

 

IMO, everyone (voters, media and the Remain campaign) failed to focus sufficiently on  how a Brexit would impact on the  Irish border and GFA - as well as the myth of fishing being a one-way street of taking back control.    

 

Too late now, sadly.

 

 

[Pans Jambo]

2 hours ago, Lone Striker said:

Ok fair enough.  Alex Neil and Jim Sillars were pro-Brexit.

I dont recall that but I’m not surprised with that pair.

[ri Alban]

8 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

The comment was not about SNP SMPs  or MPs but SNP politicians. If no SNP politicians supported Brexit then they are out of line with many SNP voters who did. 

A few did support, but they are bampots like Alex Neil who is thankfully retiring. I wouldn't ask him to feed a goldfish. 

Edited November 17, 2020 by ri Alban

[NANOJAMBO]

12 hours ago, Lone Striker said:

Despite a very low-key Scottish Leave campaign (Sillars & Harris basically), the Leave side still got 38%  of the vote.   Quite a remarkable result given that all the Holyrood party leaders campaigned for Remain.

 

I'm simply pointing out that the concept of leaving the EU got traction with folk from various backgrounds and political allegiances - but not me though.   

 

IMO, everyone (voters, media and the Remain campaign) failed to focus sufficiently on  how a Brexit would impact on the  Irish border and GFA - as well as the myth of fishing being a one-way street of taking back control.    

 

Too late now, sadly.

 

 

Were Sillar & Harris part of the two official leave campaigns ? You don't make clear. 

 

I'm not commenting on the GFA - this isn't what you said that prompted me to question the Scottish support (or not) for brexit. 

[Lone Striker]

43 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Were Sillar & Harris part of the two official leave campaigns ? You don't make clear. 

 

I'm not commenting on the GFA - this isn't what you said that prompted me to question the Scottish support (or not) for brexit. 

I can't remember what banner they were under (probably not the 2 normally mentioned), but they held a few public meetings and press conferences.

 

My GFA comment was simply in hindsight - I don't recall it being mentioned much at all in all these televised debates (QT etc), which is mainly the fault of the Remain politicians for not publicly challenging the Brexiteers on it.  👍

 

 

[Pans Jambo]

Those poor folks in the fishing industry who voted to “reclaim our waters”.

Oh dear

What a shame

Never mind...

 

Edited November 17, 2020 by Pans Jambo

[A Boy Named Crow]

43 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Those poor folks in the fishing industry who voted to “reclaim our waters”.

Oh dear

What a shame

Never mind...

 

Stupid is as stupid does...this is why direct democracy is a very bad idea!

[Cade]

“There is a cult of ignorance [in the United States], and there has always been.
The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”

-Isaac Asimov

 

[Ulysses]

2 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

Those poor folks in the fishing industry who voted to “reclaim our waters”.

Oh dear

What a shame

Never mind...

 

 

[manaliveits105]

4 hours ago, Cade said:

“There is a cult of ignorance [in the United States], and there has always been.
The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”

-Isaac Asimov

 

Very true dat Isaac da man 

[Malinga the Swinga]

12 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

Those poor folks in the fishing industry who voted to “reclaim our waters”.

Oh dear

What a shame

Never mind...

 

I am sure Nigel Farage and others will be there shortly to announce plans on how they intend to remedy situation. No one to blame but themselves and find it very hard to find any sympathy for them. 

[SectionDJambo]

41 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

I am sure Nigel Farage and others will be there shortly to announce plans on how they intend to remedy situation. No one to blame but themselves and find it very hard to find any sympathy for them. 

I wonder how Farage would have described any attempt, by the Leave campaign, to just not accept the vote and come up with false claims of ballot fraud after the referendum? You know, like his mate, Donald the Brave, is doing.

The vote was very close. Only a 1% swing could have changed it.

Would he have challenged it had it been the other way round? Would he have demanded another referendum, in the same way the SNP have, due to the tight result?

He's been very quiet lately as far as his brave mate is concerned. Waiting for his next opportunity to crawl out from under his stone? He's only out in the public forum when it suits him.

[XB52]

4 hours ago, SectionDJambo said:

 

Would he have demanded another referendum, in the same way the SNP have, due to the tight result?

 

?? The SNP have never argued against the independence referendum result. They have argued that Brexit has changed everything therefore they are now calling for a new referendum. Absolutely no comparison with Trump or Brexit boy 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

38 minutes ago, XB52 said:

?? The SNP have never argued against the independence referendum result. They have argued that Brexit has changed everything therefore they are now calling for a new referendum. Absolutely no comparison with Trump or Brexit boy 

Or as it’s known in the real world, any excuse.

[SectionDJambo]

34 minutes ago, XB52 said:

?? The SNP have never argued against the independence referendum result. They have argued that Brexit has changed everything therefore they are now calling for a new referendum. Absolutely no comparison with Trump or Brexit boy 

Didn’t mean to imply the SNP wanted another referendum due to a tight result. They have, in my opinion, a case for calling out those politicians who said that staying in the Union was the only way for Scotland to stay in the EU, only for the same politicians to argue for leaving the EU.

I meant merely to comment that some in Scotland have called for another independence referendum, due to changed circumstances, but the door was firmly closed on another EU referendum by the same people who told Scottish voters a lie about EU membership.

Just for clarity, I voted remain both times, and sometimes think that Johnson, and others of his “Rule Britannia” ilk,  would be quite happy to lose Scotland to make the Tory majority in Westminster more secure.

[Cade]

Nissan's UK boss says that under a no-deal situation, their manufacturing operations in the UK will be unsustainable.

 

Did tell you so.

Repeatedly.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

5 minutes ago, Cade said:

Nissan's UK boss says that under a no-deal situation, their manufacturing operations in the UK will be unsustainable.

 

Did tell you so.

Repeatedly.

It couldn’t have been more obvious. The most ludicrous political decision of our generation 

[Pans Jambo]

The Simpsons ken the score

 

[The Mighty Thor]

54 minutes ago, Cade said:

Nissan's UK boss says that under a no-deal situation, their manufacturing operations in the UK will be unsustainable.

 

Did tell you so.

Repeatedly.

Its like the project fear greatest hits tour. 

Dominos falling one by one. 

[ri Alban]

4 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Or as it’s known in the real world, any excuse.

There should not need to be an excuse for independence. An excuse for a Scotsman are folk who voted no. And Karma will be a bitch served in extremes and a whole world of pain, that they never forget their scum ******* treacherous decisions for the rest of their fecking lives. 

 

And they better hope someone more hateful than me doesn't run for pm, coz then they'll all be fecked. 

Edited November 18, 2020 by ri Alban

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

40 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

There should not need to be an excuse for independence. An excuse for a Scotsman are folk who voted no. And Karma will be a bitch served in extremes and a whole world of pain, that they never forget their scum ******* treacherous decisions for the rest of their fecking lives. 

 

And they better hope someone more hateful than me doesn't run for pm, coz then they'll all be fecked. 

You’re basically Hitler in a kilt

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

There should not need to be an excuse for independence. An excuse for a Scotsman are folk who voted no. And Karma will be a bitch served in extremes and a whole world of pain, that they never forget their scum ******* treacherous decisions for the rest of their fecking lives. 

 

And they better hope someone more hateful than me doesn't run for pm, coz then they'll all be fecked. 

Hard to imagine someone more hateful than you. You have just accused most indeed the great majority of Scots for 300 years of being traitors.

[King prawn]

9 hours ago, ri Alban said:

There should not need to be an excuse for independence. An excuse for a Scotsman are folk who voted no. And Karma will be a bitch served in extremes and a whole world of pain, that they never forget their scum ******* treacherous decisions for the rest of their fecking lives. 

 

And they better hope someone more hateful than me doesn't run for pm, coz then they'll all be fecked. 

[Pans Jambo]

9 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Hard to imagine someone more hateful than you. You have just accused most indeed the great majority of Scots for 300 years of being traitors.

300 years? Where does he say that?

 

Not one of his finest posts granted but I think he's had enough of the "vichy" Scots that have union jack bed spreads.

 

The debate is not why Scotland SHOULD be independent...even Boris can see it coming. No, the debate now is WHY Scotland should remain in the Union. The 2014 arguments are gone. Thats over. EU, Currency, Trading, Pensions, Defence, NHS all of it, the arguments are done!

Like he said, theres no "excuse of independence".

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

2 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

300 years? Where does he say that?

 

Not one of his finest posts granted but I think he's had enough of the "vichy" Scots that have union jack bed spreads.

 

The debate is not why Scotland SHOULD be independent...even Boris can see it coming. No, the debate now is WHY Scotland should remain in the Union. The 2014 arguments are gone. Thats over. EU, Currency, Trading, Pensions, Defence, NHS all of it, the arguments are done!

Like he said, theres no "excuse of independence".

Your argument is back to front. The job of independence campaigners is not to argue that the union is shite. It’s to demonstrate, with hard facts, why independence would be significantly better.

 

Otherwise it’s no different to Brexit and the ‘let’s get out of this because it’s pish’ argument which somehow earned leave a win and left us in this mess.

[Pans Jambo]

40 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Your argument is back to front. The job of independence campaigners is not to argue that the union is shite. It’s to demonstrate, with hard facts, why independence would be significantly better.

 

Otherwise it’s no different to Brexit and the ‘let’s get out of this because it’s pish’ argument which somehow earned leave a win and left us in this mess.

I disagree.

What's in it for Scots now?

That's the real debate.

But there you go!

[Francis Albert]

3 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

300 years? Where does he say that?

 

Not one of his finest posts granted but I think he's had enough of the "vichy" Scots that have union jack bed spreads.

 

The debate is not why Scotland SHOULD be independent...even Boris can see it coming. No, the debate now is WHY Scotland should remain in the Union. The 2014 arguments are gone. Thats over. EU, Currency, Trading, Pensions, Defence, NHS all of it, the arguments are done!

Like he said, theres no "excuse of independence".

He didn't. They were my words. If those who don't support independence are traitors then the majority of Scots for the greater part of the period since the Union have been traitors.

 

The use of the phrase Vichy Scots even in inverted commas is (IMO of course) also pretty asinine.

[Des Lynam]

14 hours ago, ri Alban said:

There should not need to be an excuse for independence. An excuse for a Scotsman are folk who voted no. And Karma will be a bitch served in extremes and a whole world of pain, that they never forget their scum ******* treacherous decisions for the rest of their fecking lives. 

 

And they better hope someone more hateful than me doesn't run for pm, coz then they'll all be fecked. 

You sound like a Trumper. 

[Des Lynam]

1 hour ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Your argument is back to front. The job of independence campaigners is not to argue that the union is shite. It’s to demonstrate, with hard facts, why independence would be significantly better.

 

Otherwise it’s no different to Brexit and the ‘let’s get out of this because it’s pish’ argument which somehow earned leave a win and left us in this mess.

Hate the English! Hate the English! That’s all these unintelligent nationalists want to hear. 
 

 

[Cade]

Brexit was achieved by demonising the European Union rather than saying why the UK would be better off alone.

In fact, they never even pretended that the UK would be better off.

 

Seems that taking to the gutter works.

 

 

[Justin Z]

58 minutes ago, Cade said:

Brexit was achieved by demonising the European Union rather than saying why the UK would be better off alone.

In fact, they never even pretended that the UK would be better off.

 

Seems that taking to the gutter works.

 

True, but I'd like to see Indy take the high road, personally.

[Cade]

100% yes, I'd love for Scotland to go independent in a positive way, not a negative one.

 

[Des Lynam]

1 hour ago, Cade said:

100% yes, I'd love for Scotland to go independent in a positive way, not a negative one.

 

Fully agree. If Independence is going to happen then the SNP must tone down the anti English stuff it’s base spews out. They must also distance themselves from some sort of socialist dream for Scotland. 

[Unknown user]

6 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Your argument is back to front. The job of independence campaigners is not to argue that the union is shite. It’s to demonstrate, with hard facts, why independence would be significantly better.

 

Otherwise it’s no different to Brexit and the ‘let’s get out of this because it’s pish’ argument which somehow earned leave a win and left us in this mess.

That's easy, we'd be able to hold our government accountable and have a meaningful say in elections that shape our future

[The Real Maroonblood]

4 hours ago, Des Lynam said:

Hate the English! Hate the English! That’s all these unintelligent nationalists want to hear. 
 

 

[SE16 3LN]

19 hours ago, ri Alban said:

There should not need to be an excuse for independence. An excuse for a Scotsman are folk who voted no. And Karma will be a bitch served in extremes and a whole world of pain, that they never forget their scum ******* treacherous decisions for the rest of their fecking lives. 

 

And they better hope someone more hateful than me doesn't run for pm, coz then they'll all be fecked. 

Fortunately your Deity hs deemed that this kind of hate is to be outlawed under the new hate legislation, even in your own home. So get it all off your chest now. 

[ri Alban]

16 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Exactly, hate the English is unionist propaganda. Its Scots traitors who I'd like to see bussed to the Lion's enclosure of Blair drummond after a week's food shortage. 

 

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by ri Alban

[ri Alban]

4 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

Fortunately your Deity hs deemed that this kind of hate is to be outlawed under the new hate legislation, even in your own home. So get it all off your chest now. 

Traitors will be dealt with, soon enough. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

That's easy, we'd be able to hold our government accountable and have a meaningful say in elections that shape our future

That sounds like pure Brexit pish. Honestly it does

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

That's easy, we'd be able to hold our government accountable and have a meaningful say in elections that shape our future

That sounds like pure Brexit pish. Honestly it does

[Unknown user]

18 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

That sounds like pure Brexit pish. Honestly it does

Cool, it's not you I'm trying to convince anyway

[Don Dan]

Do they know something we don’t?

FRANKFURT (Reuters) - BMW (BMWG.DE) on Wednesday said it will retool its German factories to build electric cars and components and shift manufacturing of combustion engines to plants in Austria and England as part of a broader shift toward low-emission cars.

 

 

https://apple.news/Ay24ROewIQZGBfkifUKUv2w