SwindonJambo Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 54 minutes ago, Sarah O said: Very true. The name calling is absolutely tragic and sums up the mentality of some people. Probably the type of person that has a flag in their Twitter handle. You're right but it's equally distributed on both sides. Personal abuse does not make an argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydug Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 1 hour ago, ri Alban said: According to that prick who owns Wetherspoons, all countries will deliver goods to England for free. Well not really, but that's how these twats with too much airtime, try to bam folk up He's started leaving pro-brexit propaganda on the tables in his pubs. I take great pleasure in using them to steady the rocky tables ☺. Seriously it's wrong that he should be forcing his staff to promote a political agenda on his customers. I hope it costs him business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) Labour is going through the sequence of steps that was agreed at conference. The confidence motion is one step, it will fail, but the next is to consider any other options, including a referendum. Lots of Labour MPs are about to add their weight to it so Corbyn will probably soon adopt this as well. Edited January 16, 2019 by Victorian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bindy Badgy Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 30 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said: You're right but it's equally distributed on both sides. Personal abuse does not make an argument. There's certainly idiots on both sides but I think that saying it is equally distributed is debatable. The Daily Mail and similar papers have referred to people that people that don't behave in the way they want as 'traitors'. As far as I'm aware, pro-EU papers haven't engaged in similar rhetoric. Similarly, most of the incendiary abuse, such as calling people Nazis, appears to have come from people on the Leave side. I'm fully aware that I am biased when it comes to this issue so it may be selective memory on my part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 18 minutes ago, Lord BJ said: Corbyn could constantly call for no confidence vote comtinously to gridlock parliament if he wants. It would probably be successful in getting the GE he graves, but would risk posing off electorate by putting party before country. i just don’t see a GE materialising or sorting anything. A labour MP was on the TV this morning saying something very similar, that they could bring no confidence vote after no confidence vote. I agree that a GE would probably solve nothing, indeed it could make things worse. Corbyn says that a GE would give the country clarity and a Labour government the mandate the country needs, but that's only true if they won by an overwhelming majority, and I just don't see that happening, so if that were the case, all a GE could achieve is to replace one minority government with another minority government, and parliament would still be the same mess it is right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SE16 3LN Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 May has been an absolute disaster, is easily the worst PM in the history of parliamentary democracy and still running around pretending she's right. Sadly her party will back her tonight. I think what summed up her approach was the ten minute phone call to three key TU leaders last week, begging them to influence the vote of labour MP's. 2 years too late Theresa. The TU's, business leaders and all interested groups should have been consulted/involved 2 years ago. A ten minute phone call FFS. The EU have ****ed this up as much as the Tory party in all honesty. Threatening a policy that might precipitate a return to violence in NI is about as scummy a negotiating tool as you could get. Sadly many residents of the UK thought that was OK. Lying about the UK's contribution to the EU by 500% and pretending that half the young people of the Euro zone hadn't ****ed off to the UK looking for work when the Euro Zone crashed didn't help. It looks like they will be facing the consequences of their lies in not much more than two months time. The only choice now is between buying more time and looking for another solution via a general election or 2nd referendum. Neither of them fills me with hope and unless May stands aside, will probably fail. I'm inclined to believe we will get a drunk and disorderly come spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 May and the Government had and took responsibility to agree the deal to leave the EU. It's them that has failed dismally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 32 minutes ago, Stokesy said: There's certainly idiots on both sides but I think that saying it is equally distributed is debatable. The Daily Mail and similar papers have referred to people that people that don't behave in the way they want as 'traitors'. As far as I'm aware, pro-EU papers haven't engaged in similar rhetoric. Similarly, most of the incendiary abuse, such as calling people Nazis, appears to have come from people on the Leave side. I'm fully aware that I am biased when it comes to this issue so it may be selective memory on my part. The majority voted to leave the EU with UK laws for UK people. It was an absolute disgrace that the supreme court judges were branded traitors by the press, and got away with it. They were the exact opposite. I believe in press freedom, but by god it's a disgrace so few if any of them ever end up in jail. Thenagain, if our laws don't permit them to be incarcerated, then so be it. Jyst need to change the laws. Not that any of the parliamentary parties would put that in their mandate. Press to valuabke for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Shamelessly pinched from FB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 15 minutes ago, Boris said: Shamelessly pinched from FB That was a genuine lol his morning ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Stokesy said: There's certainly idiots on both sides but I think that saying it is equally distributed is debatable. The Daily Mail and similar papers have referred to people that people that don't behave in the way they want as 'traitors'. As far as I'm aware, pro-EU papers haven't engaged in similar rhetoric. Similarly, most of the incendiary abuse, such as calling people Nazis, appears to have come from people on the Leave side. I'm fully aware that I am biased when it comes to this issue so it may be selective memory on my part. My memory may also be selective but I certainly remember Brexiters being described as thick racists and Nazis. Edited January 16, 2019 by Francis Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 11 hours ago, Ulysses said: It was in the news, jake. The European Court of Justice analysed the Article and said there was nothing to stop a Member State from cancelling its invocation of Article 50 and the EU itself could not overrule that if it happened. Clever people, the Court. My understanding is that the Court said that UK can unilaterally withdraw its Article 50 notice. (I am not clear whether that is appealable if it actually happens) Presumably if the UK did withdraw its Article 50 notice d it would have the right to submit a new Article 50 notice and start the whole process from the beginning. I can't see there being much appetite for that. The EU might agree (I think it needs all 27 to agree) to defer the deadline for agreement under the existing Article 50 notice. Either way the UK would be negotiating, after last night, in the same way the Monty Python knights were fighting, with all limbs removed. It looks to me like No Deal or Remain and so I think Remainers are pretty much home and dry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, luckydug said: He's started leaving pro-brexit propaganda on the tables in his pubs. I take great pleasure in using them to steady the rocky tables ☺. Seriously it's wrong that he should be forcing his staff to promote a political agenda on his customers. I hope it costs him business. The magazine distributed in Witherspoons was editorially pro- Brexit but the 6 or more pages of content in each edition was pro-and anti- Brexit in fairly equal measure. Politicians, economists and business leaders gave independent and differing views. It was far less one-sided than the Guardian or (in its old Paul Dacre incarnation) the Mail. In the Guardian the word Brexit now rarely appears without the attached word "disaster" (despite its opinion is free but facts are sacred tag line) , while under its new editor the Mail attacks the hard line Brexiters in terms Dacre employed for high court judges and Remainer MPs. Edited January 16, 2019 by Francis Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: In the Guardian the word Brexit now rarely appears without the attached word "disaster" (despite its opinion is free but facts are sacred tag line) Perhaps those are opinion pieces you are reading? The Guardian seems full of them these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said: May and the Government had and took responsibility to agree the deal to leave the EU. It's them that has failed dismally. Agreed, the first mistake amongst many was the Tories not setting up a cross-party negotiating committee, and thus present and show to the EU a parliament which would have been much more united than what is currently. This would have resulted in a much better deal imo, and one which would have passed. But more importantly I genuinely believe that a cross-party committee would have helped to bring not only parliament but the country together, because it would have united the more centre ground supporters on either side and forced the loonies from both the left & right back to the fringes where they once belonged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Findlay Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 16 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said: Agreed, the first mistake amongst many was the Tories not setting up a cross-party negotiating committee, and thus present and show to the EU a parliament which would have been much more united than what is currently. This would have resulted in a much better deal imo, and one which would have passed. But more importantly I genuinely believe that a cross-party committee would have helped to bring not only parliament but the country together, because it would have united the more centre ground supporters on either side and forced the loonies from both the left & right back to the fringes where they once belonged. That could only have been done if all other parties agreed to it. They didn't as self interest by all parties was put first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Out of interest, with the EU referendum being an 'advisory' vote could someone go to the Supreme Court and seek that it's not binding and the whole process should be reset? This time changed to a binding outcome? Or has all this been superseded by various bills passed by the House and / or the Tory & Labour manifestos at the last election? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 36 minutes ago, Boris said: Perhaps those are opinion pieces you are reading? The Guardian seems full of them these days. Opinion and reporting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 39 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said: Agreed, the first mistake amongst many was the Tories not setting up a cross-party negotiating committee, and thus present and show to the EU a parliament which would have been much more united than what is currently. This would have resulted in a much better deal imo, and one which would have passed. But more importantly I genuinely believe that a cross-party committee would have helped to bring not only parliament but the country together, because it would have united the more centre ground supporters on either side and forced the loonies from both the left & right back to the fringes where they once belonged. Maybe what will need to happen now. But May still probably hoping the only realistic alternative is her Deal to avoid No Deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 14 minutes ago, John Findlay said: That could only have been done if all other parties agreed to it. They didn't as self interest by all parties was put first. Sadly very true, and it's something which I hope people will remember next time at the ballot box. Tbh, listening to many MP's it is clear many don't give a shit about or what their constituents want or voted for, all they care about is preserving their own personal gravy train. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Just now, Mikey1874 said: Maybe what will need to happen now. But May still probably hoping the only realistic alternative is her Deal to avoid No Deal. In the interests of the country, i'd like to see it, but I think there are far to many MP's who are putting their own self interests, be that political or financial interests ahead of the country's interests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Scottish and Welsh FMs both saying that they spoke to May and that she is not moving at all from her red lines. Sturgeon says May appears to have no other idea of what comes next. Hmmm... if only those red lines could be removed. Just imagine the wonderful, magical possibilities that could appear. So... no movement or compromise from May. Just incredibly stubborn and deluded. Out of touch with reality. Or... unable to move the red lines because that means Tory civil war and a certain split. The Tory Party is still the prime consideration here and **** the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) We expecting this to basically be a win for May by 10 or so votes tonight? Edited January 16, 2019 by hughesie27 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, hughesie27 said: We expecting this to basically be a win for my by 10 or so votes tonight? Yes a cast iron win on house lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 47 minutes ago, John Findlay said: That could only have been done if all other parties agreed to it. They didn't as self interest by all parties was put first. Very true. Labour in particular have put party before country throughout the brexit process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 1 minute ago, Lord BJ said: May has basically said this government won’t revoke article 50. Now as with any politician her words don’t mean all that much but...... Her stance basically seems to be to agree some form of deal, how the **** does she hope to achieve that. Also interestingly seems to be tories will reach out to labour but not the labour front bench. Parliament passed with an overwhelming majority the Article 50 act to begin a two year process. It passed the withdrawal act, both of these in the knowledge that if no deal was agreed we would leave without a deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 1 minute ago, Lord BJ said: May has basically said this government won’t revoke article 50. Now as with any politician her words don’t mean all that much but...... Her stance basically seems to be to agree some form of deal, how the **** does she hope to achieve that. Also interestingly seems to be tories will reach out to labour but not the labour front bench. It's a transparent tactic. Trying to gain some support but also cause a split in the Labour Party for political, election game playing reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 9 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said: Very true. Labour in particular have put party before country throughout the brexit process. They have. They want a General Election to take over as the government. But how could Labour have produced a different Brexit deal? Corbyn has at least tried to ensure Brexit happens by holding off demands from his party members for a second referendum. May has controlled the process since she became Prime Minister. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Just now, Mikey1874 said: They have. They want a General Election to take over as the government. But how could Labour have produced a different Brexit deal? Corbyn has at least tried to ensure Brexit happens by holding off demands from his party members for a second referendum. May has controlled the process since she became Prime Minister. The Tory red lines prefaced the negotiations and the result was based on them. Labour would not have the same red lines therefore an entirely different outcome is possible. The EU have said as much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 8 minutes ago, Lord BJ said: ‘Fairer to our farmers and fishers’ seems to be her new catchphrase. If there was a general election. Would the tories have TM as leader? The Tories failed to change leader in their challenge and they can't challenge her till Dec 2019. They need to support a motion of no confidence today or next week to change their leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Just now, Victorian said: The Tory red lines prefaced the negotiations and the result was based on them. Labour would not have the same red lines therefore an entirely different outcome is possible. The EU have said as much. So how could Labour have got a deal agreed? They are not the government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said: They have. They want a General Election to take over as the government. But how could Labour have produced a different Brexit deal? Corbyn has at least tried to ensure Brexit happens by holding off demands from his party members for a second referendum. May has controlled the process since she became Prime Minister. There's only about 70 of them calling for a 2nd referendum. If you looked at Labours 5 red lines or whatever they called the list they would never ever have been acceptable to the EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said: So how could Labour have got a deal agreed? They are not the government. If they were I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Parliament did indeed vote for invoking Article 50. It has also voted to block No Deal and May's Deal. Brexit has been full of chaos and contradictions from the very start. Nobody knows what they want or how to get it, and only know to block what everybody else wants. It's a total shambles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said: There's only about 70 of them calling for a 2nd referendum. If you looked at Labours 5 red lines or whatever they called the list they would never ever have been acceptable to the EU. 70% of Labour members Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 7 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said: There's only about 70 of them calling for a 2nd referendum. If you looked at Labours 5 red lines or whatever they called the list they would never ever have been acceptable to the EU. Corbyn's 6 tests. Totally different from red lines. Apparently... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Victorian said: If they were I mean. Yeah. Just all these peoplè saying Corbyn or Labour hasn't done enough. I get the point about not being a strong enough opposition. But not sure what more they could have done on the Brexit deal. Aside from inflicting the biggest defeat on a government in history. Albeit May did that all by herself. Edited January 16, 2019 by Mikey1874 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 1 hour ago, hughesie27 said: We expecting this to basically be a win for May by 10 or so votes tonight? Tory + DUP = 328 seats (I think) 650 MPs, although 7 Sinn Fein members don't show, so majority required is 322, assuming I got my sums right. So aa majority of about 6 I'd say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tian447 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 I'm lost with what is actually going on, and it seems like a large number of politicians are also in the same boat. 72 days left to sort it out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 47 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: Corbyn's 6 tests. Totally different from red lines. Apparently... If he is also ruling out No Deal and abandoning Brexit, what extra leverage in negotiating a deal, over and above that available to May, does he expect to have with Juncker whose sole ambition is to reverse Brexit. Juncker does have ‘previous’ in forcing electorates to keep voting until ‘they get it right’ or, as in the case of France, the legislature overrules the popular will. He expects to do the same here. It is looking more and more like a second referendum is in the cards. That should suit Juncker unless, of course, the electorate continues to vote the wrong way. What then, a third referendum? If a second referendum is held and it falls after the EU Elections, it will be interesting to see if the anticipated rise of of Hard Right in that forum will impact significantly on the outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Not good at links but google "Corbyn's six tests" for a New Statesman article yesterday which comprehensively demolishes the six tests, all vacuous and subjective except the one which demands that a deal should deliver exactly the same benefits as the customs union and common market provide. Something that could only be delivered by remaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Z Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 "The easiest deal in history" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 18 hours ago, JamesM48 said: OMG now that would be dramatic.. If they had all been in parliament for the customs union vote in July, and voted the way they would have been expected to, the vote would have been won 308-307 and the whole path of Brexit would have been altered as a result. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44864496 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 4 hours ago, Boris said: Tory + DUP = 328 seats (I think) 650 MPs, although 7 Sinn Fein members don't show, so majority required is 322, assuming I got my sums right. So aa majority of about 6 I'd say Sinn Fein pricks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 2 hours ago, Thunderstruck said: If he is also ruling out No Deal and abandoning Brexit, what extra leverage in negotiating a deal, over and above that available to May, does he expect to have with Juncker whose sole ambition is to reverse Brexit. Juncker does have ‘previous’ in forcing electorates to keep voting until ‘they get it right’ or, as in the case of France, the legislature overrules the popular will. He expects to do the same here. It is looking more and more like a second referendum is in the cards. That should suit Juncker unless, of course, the electorate continues to vote the wrong way. What then, a third referendum? If a second referendum is held and it falls after the EU Elections, it will be interesting to see if the anticipated rise of of Hard Right in that forum will impact significantly on the outcome. As far as I can see the EU Parliament has little or no influence on the Brexit outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Personally I would organise another referendum, but instead of a naïve "In or Out?" question, I would pose various questions relating to the relationship with the EU: . Do you want a customs union with the EU? . Do you want a free-trade zone with the EU? . Do you want freedom of movement between the UK and the EU? . Do you want the EU Court of Justice to be the highest court in the UK legal system? and so on... I would then get both sides for each of those questions to put their arguments for and against, have these *strictly* fact-checked by independent sources, make that information available to the general public, and have the referendum. Once the results were in, I would get the Government to go to the EU and say "Here's what the people want in detail. Now what we can do about it?". It should never have been a straight In or Out question. That's what polarised this country and what caused all the shenanigans that we're now experiencing. We're trying to shoehorn a nuanced and complicated topic of discussion into simple black and white boxes. If you're going to trust the public, don't over-simplify things for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 8 minutes ago, hughesie27 said: Sinn Fein pricks They have been elected to represent their constituents and their views. The way things are going now, they are instead effectively empowering DUP policies by not acting as a break against the latter's tail-wagging-the-dog vote in parliament. I wouldn't go as far as calling them pricks, but I hope they are ashamed at what their inaction has done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: As far as I can see the EU Parliament has little or no influence on the Brexit outcome. Sorry, I meant in terms of the public perception of the EU as a club to aspire to belong to. Edited January 16, 2019 by Thunderstruck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Tory party won't get rid of May because nobody else actually really wants the top job. We saw this when she easily won the in-party confidence vote. Parliament can't get rid of the sitting Government due to infighting in the Labour party. We'll see this later on when they easily win the confidence vote in the House. But the sitting government can't get anything passed in the House due to total incompetence. Funny old world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 7 minutes ago, redjambo said: Personally I would organise another referendum, but instead of a naïve "In or Out?" question, I would pose various questions relating to the relationship with the EU: . Do you want a customs union with the EU? . Do you want a free-trade zone with the EU? . Do you want freedom of movement between the UK and the EU? . Do you want the EU Court of Justice to be the highest court in the UK legal system? and so on... I would then get both sides for each of those questions to put their arguments for and against, have these *strictly* fact-checked by independent sources, make that information available to the general public, and have the referendum. Once the results were in, I would get the Government to go to the EU and say "Here's what the people want in detail. Now what we can do about it?". It should never have been a straight In or Out question. That's what polarised this country and what caused all the shenanigans that we're now experiencing. We're trying to shoehorn a nuanced and complicated topic of discussion into simple black and white boxes. If you're going to trust the public, don't over-simplify things for them. You would need to add a few dozen more questions. At least. The EU is not there to meet the wishes of the UK electorate so the UK electorates wishes would have to be qualified by what the EU is prepared to accept. The referendum was a terrible idea. Negotiation by referenda is a worse one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.