The Mighty Thor Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 35 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: You miss my point. Parts turn up in time because the technical solution works inside and outside the EU (but of course could not possibly work in Ireland!). Of course if we and the EU together choose to commit economic suicide (to adapt a phrase) then for a while they may not work. I get your point. It works at the moment. It wont work on 30/3 if the lunatics are allowed the keys to the asylum. No amount of technical solution whataboutery will make the process at the french ports or indeed Dover any quicker. That's nuts and bolts we're talking about. Not perishables, foodstuffs etc. Moonbeams and unicorns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 16 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said: I get your point. It works at the moment. It wont work on 30/3 if the lunatics are allowed the keys to the asylum. No amount of technical solution whataboutery will make the process at the french ports or indeed Dover any quicker. That's nuts and bolts we're talking about. Not perishables, foodstuffs etc. Moonbeams and unicorns. You don't get my point. It wasn't about 30/3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 (edited) 53 minutes ago, ri Alban said: They'll have you believe there's only 900,000 Brits living in The EU, and we're swamped by 4m. Total bollox. There's about 2m Brits working in the EU, plus pensioners. But the number " they would have us believe" comes from our Office of National Statistics... If they can get gdp figures 15 years ahead right surely they can count numbers of people today. Edited December 16, 2018 by Francis Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 23 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: But the number " they would have us believe" comes from our Office of National Statistics... If they can get gdp figures 15 years ahead right surely they can count numbers of people today. Point taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 (edited) 12 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said: I get your point. It works at the moment. It wont work on 30/3 if the lunatics are allowed the keys to the asylum. No amount of technical solution whataboutery will make the process at the french ports or indeed Dover any quicker. That's nuts and bolts we're talking about. Not perishables, foodstuffs etc. Moonbeams and unicorns. There isn't a point to be gotten, no matter what the hardline Brexiteers would try to argue. There will be obvious infrastructure between the UK and the continent. Have a look at this video of a BBC interview with Rod McKenzie of the Road Haulage Association. The delays and paperwork involved for trucks in the event of a no-deal Brexit are mind-boggling and could put hauliers out of business. He refers to one company who would be hit with SEVEN MILLION pieces of extra documentation every single week. That's one company with 300 trucks, and in the interview McKenzie notes that there are 40,000 trucks plying their trade back and forth between the UK and the continent. Edited December 17, 2018 by Ulysses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 4 hours ago, Ulysses said: There isn't a point to be gotten, no matter what the hardline Brexiteers would try to argue. There will be obvious infrastructure between the UK and the continent. Have a look at this video of a BBC interview with Rod McKenzie of the Road Haulage Association. The delays and paperwork involved for trucks in the event of a no-deal Brexit are mind-boggling and could put hauliers out of business. He refers to one company who would be hit with SEVEN MILLION pieces of extra documentation every single week. That's one company with 300 trucks, and in the interview McKenzie notes that there are 40,000 trucks plying their trade back and forth between the UK and the continent. Real world consequences? Like actual things that might happen outside the palace of Westminster? There's not been enough mention of this kind of thing for my liking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 3 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said: Real world consequences? Like actual things that might happen outside the palace of Westminster? There's not been enough mention of this kind of thing for my liking. The whole thing is very unpleasant. Land rover looking to lay off 5000 workers now. Drug companies putting up priced to exploit the situation. Its a nasty, massive mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 9 minutes ago, doctor jambo said: The whole thing is very unpleasant. Land rover looking to lay off 5000 workers now. Drug companies putting up priced to exploit the situation. Its a nasty, massive mess. Heard the drug supply and pricing issue on 5live this morning. Project fear turning real now, but still Maybot tries to plough on, fingers in ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 38 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said: Heard the drug supply and pricing issue on 5live this morning. Project fear turning real now, but still Maybot tries to plough on, fingers in ears. The problem is though that its not a project- its real. Having a referendum was a mistake, and many used it as a 2 finger salute to the capitalist pigs, bankers and politicians. Unfortunately those are the people who keep the economy turning. Curing your headache by shooting yourself between the eyes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Of course there will be real and bad consequences of Brexit. At the same time every bad piece of economic news will be attributed to Brexit, every failing business and businessman will attribute its failure in part to Brexit, Jaguar Landrovers current problems have little to do with Brexit but are largely thee result of a product range too heavy with diesels, and a huge decline in sales this year in China and the US, a return of reliability issues, greater competition from new deluxe SUVs. Brexit and moving some manufacturing to Eastern Europe will impact on future UK jobs but current job losses and lay offs are not really Brexit-related. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 (edited) Doesn't seem this will do much. Needs to be a vote of no confidence in Government but seems they still think they won't win that. Edited December 17, 2018 by Mikey1874 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 (edited) May saying vote will be week beginning 14 January. Seeking more clarifications on the Backstop. Though says it won't happen. Edited December 17, 2018 by Mikey1874 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 7 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said: May saying vote will be week beginning 14 January. Seeking more clarifications on the Backstop. Though says it won't happen. That’s very considerate of her. How many clarifications is the walloper wanting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 I wonder how much of this is the political class realising the enormity of what we face, shitting it, and finding an excuse to stay in the EU with May as the scapegoat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 On 14/12/2018 at 18:34, Dawnrazor said: It's perfectly clear, it's not that people don't or didn’t understand, they just don't like the result. Should have stated: Vote here to potentially: collapse Sterling, re-ignite the troubles on the border of Eire, close businesses, become poorer, stockpile medicines, crash the housing market, make it really difficult to trade with the biggest trading bloc on the planet, and gain a blue passport. Nowt there about millions extra for the NHS. Nobody knew what they were voting for and I believe the 17 million who were lied to would now be a good few million less than that now. Folk now have a better idea what they are in for. They should be asked if they want to fly off a cliff on the back of a Unicorn or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 6 minutes ago, Smithee said: I wonder how much of this is the political class realising the enormity of what we face, shitting it, and finding an excuse to stay in the EU with May as the scapegoat. Fair point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 18 minutes ago, Smithee said: I wonder how much of this is the political class realising the enormity of what we face, shitting it, and finding an excuse to stay in the EU with May as the scapegoat. Delaying this vote doesn't make sense though unless it's May's plan to stay in EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 21 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said: Nobody knew what they were voting for Sorry but that's nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 MPs supporting the Deal are criticising May for not holding the vote this week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 7 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: Sorry but that's nonsense. 7 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: Sorry but that's nonsense. It just isnt. What do you think the Brexiteers voted for and how does that compare to what they will likely get? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 5 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: Sorry but that's nonsense. I know what he's saying, there will be very few experts who genuinely understand all aspects of the relationship with europe and all the potential consequences of leaving. It's mental to ask us, what do we really truly know about the intricacies of a political and economic union representing 7% of the people in the world? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said: It just isnt. What do you think the Brexiteers voted for and how does that compare to what they will likely get? It just is, how the hell can you say you know what people knew and didn't know? You've no idea what people knew! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Announcement for Indyref2 on either 27/28 the of March 2019 coming soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: It just is, how the hell can you say you know what people knew and didn't know? You've no idea what people knew! Mate, even Boris & Farrage didnt know what the fall-out would be prior to the vote so how could anyone else? The vote was BEFORE any negotiations took place. Those negotiation have now concluded. Are you getting what you voted for? Edited December 17, 2018 by Pans Jambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 1 minute ago, ri Alban said: Announcement for Indyref2 on either 27/28 the of March 2019 coming soon. Where you hearing that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 4 minutes ago, Smithee said: I know what he's saying, there will be very few experts who genuinely understand all aspects of the relationship with europe and all the potential consequences of leaving. It's mental to ask us, what do we really truly know about the intricacies of a political and economic union representing 7% of the people in the world? It's impossible for EVERYONE to know EVERYTHING in any election or referendum, the question was stay or leave, leave won, rightly or wrongly that was what was voted for. There was information out there, we were told numerous time that leaving meant leaving everything, people knew. This "people never knew what they were voting for" is nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said: Mate, even Boris & Farrage didnt know what the fall-out would be prior to the vote so how could anyone else. The vote was BEFORE any negotiations took place. Those negotiation have concluded. Are you getting what you voted for? I am getting what I voted for yes, we're leaving the EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said: Where you hearing that? The voices in his head I think! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 4 minutes ago, ri Alban said: Announcement for Indyref2 on either 27/28 the of March 2019 coming soon. More chance of winning if you wait a bit. Let the impact of leaving hit home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Dawnrazor said: It's impossible for EVERYONE to know EVERYTHING in any election or referendum, the question was stay or leave, leave won, rightly or wrongly that was what was voted for. There was information out there, we were told numerous time that leaving meant leaving everything, people knew. This "people never knew what they were voting for" is nonsense. What? Brexit means Brexit? That means heehaw! As far as the referendum it was Stay or Leave but nobody said what leave actually meant other than the NHS lie and the immigration pish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 5 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: It's impossible for EVERYONE to know EVERYTHING in any election or referendum, the question was stay or leave, leave won, rightly or wrongly that was what was voted for. There was information out there, we were told numerous time that leaving meant leaving everything, people knew. This "people never knew what they were voting for" is nonsense. No it isn't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: I am getting what I voted for yes, we're leaving the EU. Are we though? If May’s deal gets over the line we would be almost as well as staying in. If its a No deal there may be a “peoples vote” and you know how that will turn out. I dont think youre getting anywhere near what you thought you were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Smithee said: No it isn't Of course it is! How many people voted? How many of them had the same interest? How many have the same access to information? How many people don't watch as much TV or read the papers or trawl the Internet for every tiny nuance of aspect of every deal on every subject of such a monumental political process, to think everyone should know everything is pie in the sky! Edited December 17, 2018 by Dawnrazor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 4 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said: Are we though? If May’s deal gets over the line we would be almost as well as staying in. If its a No deal there may be a “peoples vote” and you know how that will turn out. I dont think youre getting anywhere near what you thought you were. So you know what I wanted or thought I was getting as well as everyone else hi voted?! Really? So what did I vote leave for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Dawnrazor said: So you know what I wanted or thought I was getting as well as everyone else hi voted?! Really? So what did I vote leave for? I asked you above. You didnt reply other than to say you knew what you were voting for which we both know was impossible as the vote was before the negotiations with the EU even began. So what did you win after the vote went in your favour? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said: Doesn't seem this will do much. Needs to be a vote of no confidence in Government but seems they still think they won't win that. Corbyn shat it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 7 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: Of course it is! How many people voted? How many of them had the same interest? How many have the same access to information? How many people don't watch as much TV or read the papers or trawl the Internet for every tiny nuance of aspect of every deal on every subject of such a monumental political process, to think everyone should know everything is pie in the sky! Who thinks that like? I'm just saying it's mental to ask tens of millions of people who don't know a lot about the subject, myself included. I mean, 350 million a week extra for the NHS we were told, and there'll be people who believed that and bought into it. But also, right now brexit could mean a lot of different real life situations depending on what happens next. That might not bother people like yourself who are happy with the principle of getting out no matter what (more or less, not a dig) but there are a lot of people out there who might have different thoughts depending on which reality unfolds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, Smithee said: Who thinks that like? I'm just saying it's mental to ask tens of millions of people who don't know a lot about the subject. That's what you said though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 13 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said: I asked you above. You didnt reply other than to say you knew what you were voting for which we both know was impossible as the vote was before the negotiations with the EU even began. So what did you win after the vote went in your favour? Its impossible for me to know what I was voting for?? I knew the reasons I voted to leave and yes, they'll be addressed when we leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 33 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said: Where you hearing that? Trust me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: Its impossible for me to know what I was voting for?? I knew the reasons I voted to leave and yes, they'll be addressed when we leave. Ok so you had your own reasons but not the true facts. What did you win? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said: Ok so you had your own reasons but not the true facts. What did you win? I had my own reasons yes, as did every single person who voted. What did I win? I wouldn't put it like "winning" but the reasons I voted to leave will be addressed by leaving the EU as Ive said before. I do understand what you're getting at, but I'm not sure anyone who voted leave or remain will get, or even expected to get, everything they voted for, like a general election, its pretty much a compromise, unless you vote for a particular party everytime for ideological reasons. I fully expected there to be difficulties, as I'm sure others did, I can't really see how anyone could think there wouldn't be, but on the whole, I think I'll be happier out of the EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Corbyn to table a motion of no confidence in the PM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 46 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: That's what you said though. Quote where I said everyone should know everything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, Smithee said: Quote where I said everyone should know everything 1 hour ago, Dawnrazor said: It's impossible for EVERYONE to know EVERYTHING in any election or referendum, the question was stay or leave, leave won, rightly or wrongly that was what was voted for. There was information out there, we were told numerous time that leaving meant leaving everything, people knew. You replied "yes it is" Sorry but I'm not sure how to do the double quote thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: 1 hour ago, Dawnrazor said: It's impossible for EVERYONE to know EVERYTHING in any election or referendum, the question was stay or leave, leave won, rightly or wrongly that was what was voted for. There was information out there, we were told numerous time that leaving meant leaving everything, people knew. You replied "yes it is" Sorry but I'm not sure how to do the double quote thing. You edited out your last sentence, which is what I replied to 'This "people never knew what they were voting for" is nonsense.' My actual reply was "no it isn't" I never said everyone should know everything, that would be ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 4 minutes ago, Smithee said: You edited out your last sentence, which is what I replied to 'This "people never knew what they were voting for" is nonsense.' My actual reply was "no it isn't" I never said everyone should know everything, that would be ridiculous. It's impossible for EVERYONE to know EVERYTHING in any election or referendum, the question was stay or leave, leave won, rightly or wrongly that was what was voted for. There was information out there, we were told numerous time that leaving meant leaving everything, people knew. This "people never knew what they were voting for" is nonsense 4 minutes ago, Smithee said: You edited out your last sentence, which is what I replied to 'This "people never knew what they were voting for" is nonsense.' My actual reply was "no it isn't" I never said everyone should know everything, that would be ridiculous. My apologies, I read it as you saying that everyone SHOULD know everything, we agree that would be ridiculous! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 This is a PM and government who no longer care about things like contempt of parliament or embarrassing vote losses. The motion of no confidence in the PM is pretty much just an advisory instrument. It will be ignored, dismissed and sneered at. In the national interest of course. I highly doubt that any previous government business has been persisted with with such overt contempt and dirty tricks. The sheer variety of opinions, plans, ideas, proposals from cabinet members makes deciphering the overall governmental strategy almost impossible. Parliamentarians and the public are being played for fools. But it has a shelf life and her day of reckoning isn't far off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 2 hours ago, Mikey1874 said: More chance of winning if you wait a bit. Let the impact of leaving hit home. all good things to those who wait...i dont mind waiting for Indy2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
husref musemic Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 4 hours ago, Pans Jambo said: It just isnt. What do you think the Brexiteers voted for and how does that compare to what they will likely get? if there's 2nd referendum the losers can just say they didn't understand and campaign for a third. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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