Understanding the North Korean nightmare.

[Thunderstruck]

Mind when that Trident test the other month went 180 degrees the opposite direction?

Mind when the range controller terminated the test immediately the error was noted. Does N Korea have similar safety protocols or facilities?

[Space Mackerel]

Mind when the range controller terminated the test immediately the error was noted. Does N Korea have similar safety protocols or facilities?

You've been Googling and reading that motor mouthpiece of the UK's defence spin, the UK Defence journal and believing everything they say. Haven't you?

[Thunderstruck]

Points taken.

But we cant ignore the USA and its provocative moves all over the world.

Its meddling.

It would be unacceptable if reversed.

The only recent murmurs about military exercises outside the Korean Peninsula have been from China about Aus/US exercises off the coast of Queensland, yes Queensland. That had more to do with diverting attention from Doklam.

 

NATO routinely exercises in the Baltic and the current exercise is concluding now.

 

Russia, when it was able, would exercise beyond its own waters. Russia continues to overfly the U.K. Continental Shelf with Bear Reconnaissance aircraft - this is seen as routine and gives Biggles and Co a chance to practice interception and monitoring.

 

If a military is necessary then it is essential that it trains and develops. Exercises are a proven method of achieving that aim.

 

As I said earlier, Exercises are promulgated and all interested parties are notified (and may even send observers). They shouldn't come as a surprise.

[Thunderstruck]

You've been Googling and reading that motor mouthpiece of the UK's defence spin, the UK Defence journal and believing everything they say. Haven't you?

Nope. A US Defence (sorry, Defense) Department statement. It was their range after all.

[Space Mackerel]

Nope. A US Defence (sorry, Defense) Department statement. It was their range after all.

American Government Department telling porkies because their American made missiles are shite?

 

How many warheads are on each missile? 12, 14, 16 or something?

 

That's quite a few missed targets eh?

[Thunderstruck]

American Government Department telling porkies because their American made missiles are shite?

 

How many warheads are on each missile? 12, 14, 16 or something?

 

That's quite a few missed targets eh?

Perhaps, then, you could tell us where the test missile landed if not in the ocean. Was it Florida, Kansas or some other state. I take it that you know where the range is and how quickly a missile travelling 180 degree off course would be over the continental US.

[Space Mackerel]

Perhaps, then, you could tell us where the test missile landed if not in the ocean. Was it Florida, Kansas or some other state. I take it that you know where the range is and how quickly a missile travelling 180 degree off course would be over the continental US.

I'm not bothered where it landed, the fact is that the nuclear deterrent system that the UK tax payer pays American private companies in the form of billions of quids appears to be utter gash.

[Thunderstruck]

I'm not bothered where it landed, the fact is that the nuclear deterrent system that the UK tax payer pays American private companies in the form of billions of quids appears to be utter gash.

Given that there is a shared pool of missiles and every other recent test has been successful, your being bothered is (in keeping with your MO) based on poor data.

[jake]

I thought this was quite a good, digestible article on the topic:

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/07/the-worst-problem-on-earth/528717/

 

Worth a read imo

 

It illustrates just how crazy the whole thing is.

We really are ruled by a lot of fekt up people.

All the resources and skills to produce these weapons.

I know i sound like a naive hippy but sometimes it hits home when you read articles like these.

Its depressing .

[Space Mackerel]

Given that there is a shared pool of missiles and every other recent test has been successful, your being bothered is (in keeping with your MO) based on poor data.

Let's hope they all work then if push comes to shove, so we can extinct the human and all animal races on planet Earth. [emoji106]

[AlphonseCapone]

US protection of Taiwan? I must have imagined those Chinese garrisons there.

 

Taiwan is under control of China and isn't recognised as an independent nation.

 

That whole chess scenario you've thought up is pure fantasy.

 

And China is anything but a protagonist!

You must have imagined them because they aren't there.

 

You are completely wrong about Taiwan.

 

It might not be a recognised country, except by about 7 places, but it isnt under Chinese control. One of the most contentious issues in Taiwanese politics is which party will cower or stand up to China. That's democratic parties btw, something that doesn't happen in China.

 

When the communist were looking like winning the civil war, the nationalists retreated to Taiwan and have been there since. China claims Taiwan and Taiwan claims China, as ridiculous as that one sounds.

 

Anyway, the Taiwan, PRC situation is extremely complex and not as you portrayed.

[Riddley Walker]

You must have imagined them because they aren't there.

 

You are completely wrong about Taiwan.

 

It might not be a recognised country, except by about 7 places, but it isnt under Chinese control. One of the most contentious issues in Taiwanese politics is which party will cower or stand up to China. That's democratic parties btw, something that doesn't happen in China.

 

When the communist were looking like winning the civil war, the nationalists retreated to Taiwan and have been there since. China claims Taiwan and Taiwan claims China, as ridiculous as that one sounds.

 

Anyway, the Taiwan, PRC situation is extremely complex and not as you portrayed.

 

Aye. I used to live in Taiwan. The country is a hundred percent autonomous, there is no interference from China whatsoever. The issue is as you laid out above, the fall out from WW2.

 

Where China come in is that they don't let other countries recognise Taiwan as a sovereign state. Most countries still have diplomatic relations with Taiwan, just not formally. It was funny moving there and expecting the issue to be a big deal and finding that pretty much every Taiwanese that I asked about it shrugged it off, it's not something that bothers their day-to-day lives, although there are generally protests and unrest if whoever is in power appeases China in any way.

[Taffin]

It illustrates just how crazy the whole thing is.

We really are ruled by a lot of fekt up people.

All the resources and skills to produce these weapons.

I know i sound like a naive hippy but sometimes it hits home when you read articles like these.

Its depressing .

Yes, it really does. Makes you think how insignificant our actions are when there is madness like that going on in the background that could render it all irrelevant at the drop of a hat.

[onwards and upwards]

The war of words continue after Donald Trump say's that the US military are 'Locked & Loaded' against North Korea if Kim does anything 'Unwise'.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40901746

 

Dangerous game being played here where neither man or country can now back down without losing face.

 

If North Korea carry out their plan of firing missiles towards Guam, America says it will act, so if North Korea don't now fire missiles towards Guam, Kim loses face, equally if the North does fire missiles towards Guam and America does nothing then it's Trump who loses face.

 

We're talking about nuclear weapons at the disposal of persons who quite frankly, I wouldn't entrust to take my dog for a walk along the length of Gorgie road.

[Jambo, Goodbye]

Aye. I used to live in Taiwan. The country is a hundred percent autonomous, there is no interference from China whatsoever. The issue is as you laid out above, the fall out from WW2.

 

Where China come in is that they don't let other countries recognise Taiwan as a sovereign state. Most countries still have diplomatic relations with Taiwan, just not formally. It was funny moving there and expecting the issue to be a big deal and finding that pretty much every Taiwanese that I asked about it shrugged it off, it's not something that bothers their day-to-day lives, although there are generally protests and unrest if whoever is in power appeases China in any way.

My point I was making earlier, but which wasn't quoted, was that if a country can't be recognised as sovereign, can't formally be independent, then they are being controlled. How can that be 100% autonomous? That can be put down to point of view though. Having lived there you ought to know more than I do about Taiwan.

 

I'll be back in again Taiwan (favourite place in Asia) in 3 weeks time. I'm going to ask for opinions on NK.

 

I did see a garrison but I'll accept I was likely told it was Chinese in some sort of 'lost in translation' scenario.

 

All waaaayyy off topic anyway.

 

 

As for NK, today GMT+9, will likely see more rocket launches. Followed by the usual rhetoric by the usual people.

[Riddley Walker]

My point I was making earlier, but which wasn't quoted, was that if a country can't be recognised as sovereign, can't formally be independent, then they are being controlled. How can that be 100% autonomous? That can be put down to point of view though. Having lived there you ought to know more than I do about Taiwan.

 

I'll be back in again Taiwan (favourite place in Asia) in 3 weeks time. I'm going to ask for opinions on NK.

 

I did see a garrison but I'll accept I was likely told it was Chinese in some sort of 'lost in translation' scenario.

 

All waaaayyy off topic anyway.

 

 

As for NK, today GMT+9, will likely see more rocket launches. Followed by the usual rhetoric by the usual people.

I suppose 100% self-governing would perhaps be more accurate, although Taiwan is still free to trade with whichever countries it chooses etc. It's a rich country with a much, much higher standard of living that China and China's presence isn't felt by the general populace.

 

But you are right in the sense the, for example, it isn't allowed to be part of the UN. A handful of countries officially recognise Taiwan but most countries have unofficial diplomatic ties anyway. China's territorial aggression in the S China Sea is showing no signs of abating.

 

To take this even further off topic, if you're looking for some recommendations for travelling around Taiwan, drop me a PM, it really is a stunning country. Have you been around it much or just in the north near Taipei?

[Jambo, Goodbye]

To take this even further off topic, if you're looking for some recommendations for travelling around Taiwan, drop me a PM, it really is a stunning country. Have you been around it much or just in the north near Taipei?

Thanks the offer but this'll be my third visit. I spent 3 weeks exploring the entire island last January and absolutely agree, it's a stunning place. Locals are amongst the friendliest I've ever encountered too.

I love it that much I'm looking into moving over there once I call time on Korea.

 

If I do ever need any wee tips though I will drop you a PM. Cheers again!

[Riddley Walker]

Thanks the offer but this'll be my third visit. I spent 3 weeks exploring the entire island last January and absolutely agree, it's a stunning place. Locals are amongst the friendliest I've ever encountered too.

I love it that much I'm looking into moving over there once I call time on Korea.

 

If I do ever need any wee tips though I will drop you a PM. Cheers again!

 

No worries. Taiwan has an excellent work-life balance compared to SK* and you can really live like a king and save an absolute ton if you live outside of Taipei.

 

*I presume you're teaching, I've not lived in SK but I've a lot of friends that did both.

[Jambo, Goodbye]

 

No worries. Taiwan has an excellent work-life balance compared to SK* and you can really live like a king and save an absolute ton if you live outside of Taipei.

 

*I presume you're teaching, I've not lived in SK but I've a lot of friends that did both.

Indeed I am teaching in Korea. 2nd year now. Looking forward to my move to Taiwan. I'll likely try out Kaohsiung, had a really nice welcome there from the locals last time. Seems a cool city.

 

Turns out my rocket prediction didn't come to fruition. NK keeping their celebrations within their borders so far.

[Riddley Walker]

Indeed I am teaching in Korea. 2nd year now. Looking forward to my move to Taiwan. I'll likely try out Kaohsiung, had a really nice welcome there from the locals last time. Seems a cool city.

 

Turns out my rocket prediction didn't come to fruition. NK keeping their celebrations within their borders so far.

Kaohsiung is a great shout mate, if I were ever to move back I'd go there. I was in Tainan, only about an hour north of there. Kaohsiung is absolutely boiling but is modern and by the beach, really good metro system as well.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

See? Nowt doing. Loads of noise and nothing else

[deesidejambo]

See? Nowt doing. Loads of noise and nothing else

Well not quite nothing. It gives NK the time they need to manufacture more nukes and delivery methods.

 

What they now need is to be left alone for a while so they can get building.

[Maple Leaf]

Good, then both sides will have nukes thus securing the peace in the region for generations to come.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's called Mutually Assured Destruction, and it worked for the USSR and the USA.

 

But, when one of the parties is a tin-pot dictator, and the other is a narcissistic dimwit, I'm not sure that MAD is a safe approach.

[John Findlay]

It's called Mutually Assured Destruction, and it worked for the USSR and the USA.

 

But, when one of the parties is a tin-pot dictator, and the other is a narcissistic dimwit, I'm not sure that MAD is a safe approach.

On the USA side someone would shoot Trump before allowing him to push the button. I would like to think there is someone in NK who would do the same.

[deesidejambo]

Good, then both sides will have nukes thus securing the peace in the region for generations to come.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So according to your logic, every single country in the world should have nukes, including Al_queda and ISIS.

 

The flaw in this logic is that it just takes one mistake, one error of judgement, or one nutter, and every nuke in the world could be launched.

 

Like this - 

 

NK have an arsenal of nuclear weapons - they decide, as per past practice to launch a missile towards Japan or Guam.  It matters not whether the missile is armed or not, but US may decide that it is and launch a retaliatory strike.     If that fails for whatever reason, NK then launch the rest of their nukes towards Japan and Guam. etc etc.

 

The principle of MAD is not watertight and relies on everybody who is part of it to exercise restraint.

 

I'm not sure NK are ready for that, but all that we need to rely on is either hope that they do, or denuclearise them.  I would prefer not to spend the future allowing more and more countries to nuclease like you suggest and then hoping all goes well.

[deesidejambo]

I am glad you can see what an absurd argument MAD is. So we need to get everyone to give up their nukes as nobody can be trusted not to use them and if you can be then what's the point in having them.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The reason we have had no blowups is almost Orwellian. The US, Russia, China, U.K., France have up till now not coveted another's territory. Detente. Everybody happy with what territory they currently have, with a few small regional flash points like Ukraine and Taiwan.

 

But that is changing - NK covets the South. China covets Taiwan.

 

It is possible that once NK has an effective "deterrent" i.e a pile of nukes aimed at Japan it can initiate its long stated aim of "reunifying" Korea by conventional invasion.

 

Now peeps on here can of course dismiss this possibility as nonsense but I don't. The reason I don't is because simply nobody actually covets NK. Nobody is planning to invade or take it over. So NK doesn't actually need a deterrent to protect itself.

 

So why then spend all that money and endure sanctions on a nuclear programme? Because they have other reasons, that's why.

[michael_bolton]

The reason we have had no blowups is almost Orwellian. The US, Russia, China, U.K., France have up till now not coveted another's territory. Detente. Everybody happy with what territory they currently have, with a few small regional flash points like Ukraine and Taiwan.

 

But that is changing - NK covets the South. China covets Taiwan.

 

It is possible that once NK has an effective "deterrent" i.e a pile of nukes aimed at Japan it can initiate its long stated aim of "reunifying" Korea by conventional invasion.

 

Now peeps on here can of course dismiss this possibility as nonsense but I don't. The reason I don't is because simply nobody actually covets NK. Nobody is planning to invade or take it over. So NK doesn't actually need a deterrent to protect itself.

 

So why then spend all that money and endure sanctions on a nuclear programme? Because they have other reasons, that's why.

 

North Korea covers only power in north Korea. 

 

North Korea does not want to rule the south. The official position is that it does, but this is pure propaganda for domestic consumption. South Korea has a decent military, US backing and a fit, strong, educated population with strong international links. North Korea could not successfully invade or occupy and rule it. They know that. 

[deesidejambo]

North Korea covers only power in north Korea.

 

North Korea does not want to rule the south. The official position is that it does, but this is pure propaganda for domestic consumption. South Korea has a decent military, US backing and a fit, strong, educated population with strong international links. North Korea could not successfully invade or occupy and rule it. They know that.

And given that nobody is going to invade or occupy NK either, why build nukes?

[jake]

And given that nobody is going to invade or occupy NK either, why build nukes?

 

Perhaps they have a collective memory of the US dropping 650,000 tons of bombs and 50,000 tons of napalm.

The US also wished to use atomic bombs and this is well documented.

There were more bombs dropped in what is now North Korea than the whole of the pacific theatre in WW2.

Just maybe deeside that would be a lasting impression.

[doctor jambo]

And given that nobody is going to invade or occupy NK either, why build nukes?

they think their survival as a nation depends on it.

To stop themselves being absorbed into the South

[AlphonseCapone]

Japanese citizens being told to take shelter as NK fires another missle.

[CJGJ]

they think their survival as a nation depends on it.

To stop themselves being absorbed into the South

'They' don't think anything...others think for the population....there is nothing that can be defended about the North Korean regime

 

What would you expect our government to do if foreign nations were shooting rockets over our airspace ?..I'll give you a clue it would not be nothing.

 

China had better get tough for this push push push of North Korea will lead to extreme measures and it will not be pretty for all of us

[CJGJ]

They are a direct enemy of the US, the most likely country in the world to use Nukes! I'd be wanting to protect myself in their situation.

 

Just because you don't agree with their position, surely you can see why they have taken the position they have?

Just who do you think the ' fat dear leader' is protecting ?....its not his citizens who he starves and ensures cannot get any reasonable standard of living..there is no logic to their position and they (and by they I mean the leadership not the general population who are frankly brainwashed from birth) deserve everything that happens to them if things lead to war.

It will not be America or Japan to blame should this happen....your silly statement about America just does not stand up to scrutiny

[Tazio]

Japanese citizens being told to take shelter as NK fires another missle.

Interestingly the reports state it was fired from Pyongyang. So they have missile sites in their capital, making it very difficult for anyone to hit their missile sites without civilian casualties.

[michael_bolton]

Just who do you think the ' fat dear leader' is protecting ?....its not his citizens who he starves and ensures cannot get any reasonable standard of living..there is no logic to their position and they (and by they I mean the leadership not the general population who are frankly brainwashed from birth) deserve everything that happens to them if things lead to war.

It will not be America or Japan to blame should this happen....your silly statement about America just does not stand up to scrutiny

 

Of course there is. The regime wish to stay in power and are trying to do this in two ways.

 

1) Demonstrating to the local population that the regime is protecting it from America. America is taking the bait here with its aggressive stance, making this an easy domestic sell for the regime.

2) Demonstrating firepower to the international community that makes it invulnerable to regime change from the outside.

 

Perfectly logical, perfectly rational.

[deesidejambo]

Let's just continue with the do nothing response. Let them keep building a nuke arsenal big enough to "sink Japan".

 

Then when they know they are safe from attack due to their Japan deterrent, time to reclaim the South like they covet.

 

Geopolitically a heavily armed NK works to China and Russias advantage.

 

The losers in this situation are Japan, who are now vulnerable targets forever in the bigger picture. I wonder how their people feel about ballistic missiles being freely flown over their families by a hostile nation.

[Jambo, Goodbye]

The other week me and my teenage students were talking about problems and how to give advice. One student answered that he was worried about peace in Korea. (People here don't refer to the North and South as we do, to them it's all just "Korea". 

 

Best answer: "We should assassinate Kim Jong Un."

 

I suspect he had been chatting with Deeside...

[deesidejambo]

The other week me and my teenage students were talking about problems and how to give advice. One student answered that he was worried about peace in Korea. (People here don't refer to the North and South as we do, to them it's all just "Korea".

 

Best answer: "We should assassinate Kim Jong Un."

 

I suspect he had been chatting with Deeside...

Keep on with your do nothing approach. That will work.

[Jambo, Goodbye]

Keep on with your do nothing approach. That will work.

 

Stop being sarcastic over things that I haven't said. 

[deesidejambo]

Stop being sarcastic over things that I haven't said.

Your the one who started with the sarcastic comment about me. I have never said assassinate the leader either.

[Cade]

Keep on with your do nothing approach. That will work.

Not been paying any attention lately?

 

Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan have all turned to absolute shite since we got rid of the top man.

 

Assassination of one individual doesn't work. It just creates a power vacuum that encourages further bampottery.

[Jambo, Goodbye]

Your the one who started with the sarcastic comment about me. I have never said assassinate the leader either.

I think the sarcasm started about three pages ago tbf.

 

Forgive me but I took "Time to take out the trash" as advocating slightly more than a few sanctions or a slap on the wrist. 

 

So what's your view on what we should do? We haven't heard much from you on this point. Except that China should be doing the dirty work?

[AlphonseCapone]

Interestingly the reports state it was fired from Pyongyang. So they have missile sites in their capital, making it very difficult for anyone to hit their missile sites without civilian casualties.

No surprise I guess, the citizens are nothing more than poker chips to the regimee.

 

This test has a higher altitude and distance than the last. Testing to the point they can show they can hit the US mainland they reckon.

[Jambo, Goodbye]

Interestingly the reports state it was fired from Pyongyang. So they have missile sites in their capital, making it very difficult for anyone to hit their missile sites without civilian casualties.

 

More recent report said it was launched from an airfield north of the capital. Could still be in a heavily populated area mind you. May be on the outskirts too though. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

They're going to hold another UN security council meeting.

 

Hopefully they'll impose more sanctions.

 

[Rab87]

All Kim-Jong wants is a seat at the top table. That is what I believe now.

 

If he was insistent on bringing carnage, he would have launched a missile close to or towards Guam by now, bringing a military response.

 

His threats are empty, I think most know that now. He will keep on firing his missiles towards the sea. 

 

However, if he felt backed into a corner, things may be different.

 

The sanctions that were passed at the UN on Monday, were a shadow of what the US actually wanted to impose.

 

I believe that they were after among others, full fuel blockade, a freeze on KJU's assets, and a freeze on Air Koryo's assets. These were dropped to ensure that the sanctions were passed, as if they were presented as is, it was very unlikely that China and Russia would have supported it.

 

If the missile tests continue in the frequency they are, the above sanctions will have to be looked at eventually. That, is when the chips will be on the table so to speak. Until then, it will be business as usual in this affair. 

[deesidejambo]

I think the sarcasm started about three pages ago tbf.

 

Forgive me but I took "Time to take out the trash" as advocating slightly more than a few sanctions or a slap on the wrist.

 

So what's your view on what we should do? We haven't heard much from you on this point. Except that China should be doing the dirty work?

I view this from a regional perspective and I see Korea as the flashpoint for a risk much larger - geopolitical control of the Asian rim and potential major nuclear war between superpowers.

 

If NK are allowed to continue then US loses its ability to protect Japan. This then makes more likely two things to happen, either now or some years hence -

 

China will reclaim Taiwan.

NK will reclaim the South.

 

That is why China are reticent - nuclear NK works in their interests regionally. But they are coming under pressure even internally to act. Will be interesting to see which side they support in this issue when the shit eventually hits the fan.

 

Secondly, the risk of a war in Korea increases purely in the case of a missile accident or misunderstanding. Firing missiles over Japan increases the risk one lands there, either deliberately or accidentally.

 

Thirdly, the risk of NK exporting nukes worldwide to enemies of the US increases.

 

There is no diplomatic way back - while the current regime is in place they will not stop and they will keep building an arsenal.

 

There are two options to avert war -

 

US give up the ability to protect Japan etc. That is what China and Russia want. The "do nothing" scenario. But the ability for NK to then distribute nukes across the world remains.

 

Or

 

Regime change. Which is where China come in - they still have options that they choose not to use. Wonder why?

 

So now we see Korea is a pawn in a bigger war - between US and China over who controls the Pacific rim.

 

Korea, like Vietnam, is a flashpoint in a bigger war.

 

China need to come clean and impose their oil sanctions. That's probably the only sanction that could bring internal regime change. Wonder why they don't do it?

[AlphonseCapone]

I view this from a regional perspective and I see Korea as the flashpoint for a risk much larger - geopolitical control of the Asian rim and potential major nuclear war between superpowers.

 

If NK are allowed to continue then US loses its ability to protect Japan. This then makes more likely two things to happen, either now or some years hence -

 

China will reclaim Taiwan.

NK will reclaim the South.

 

That is why China are reticent - nuclear NK works in their interests regionally. But they are coming under pressure even internally to act. Will be interesting to see which side they support in this issue when the shit eventually hits the fan.

 

Secondly, the risk of a war in Korea increases purely in the case of a missile accident or misunderstanding. Firing missiles over Japan increases the risk one lands there, either deliberately or accidentally.

 

Thirdly, the risk of NK exporting nukes worldwide to enemies of the US increases.

 

There is no diplomatic way back - while the current regime is in place they will not stop and they will keep building an arsenal.

 

There are two options to avert war -

 

US give up the ability to protect Japan etc. That is what China and Russia want. The "do nothing" scenario. But the ability for NK to then distribute nukes across the world remains.

 

Or

 

Regime change. Which is where China come in - they still have options that they choose not to use. Wonder why?

 

So now we see Korea is a pawn in a bigger war - between US and China over who controls the Pacific rim.

 

Korea, like Vietnam, is a flashpoint in a bigger war.

 

China need to come clean and impose their oil sanctions. That's probably the only sanction that could bring internal regime change. Wonder why they don't do it?

China already claim Taiwan and vice versa. Same with the Koreas.

 

I think you are overplaying the role of NK having nukes in the sense of the greater Asian powerplays. I understand that sounds silly at first because we are talking about nukes.

 

However, all nukes do is make sure other countries with them don't use them but they don't alter the liklihood of conventional war beyond the borders of thw states who have them.

 

India and Pakistan still spat.

Russia still invaded Ukraine and Georgia.

US still went to war in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Numerous proxy wars took place throughout the globe during the cold war.

 

My point is that even if NK has a fully functioning nuclear weapon, all it guarantees is that they won't be invaded. It doesn't make the decrease the liklihood of the Americans defending Japan or any other Asian ally such as Taiwan in the case of a conventional invasion and it therefore doesn't increase the liklihood it will happen.

 

The worst outcomes from it will be (and these are terrible outcomes); the Kim regime will be safer, other dictators will see the effectiveness of having nukes as a way to guarantee their rule and this all increases the chances that terrorists who would use them, can get a hold of them.

[John Findlay]

I'm still not losing sleep over this.

[Taffin]

Let's just continue with the do nothing response. Let them keep building a nuke arsenal big enough to "sink Japan".

 

Then when they know they are safe from attack due to their Japan deterrent, time to reclaim the South like they covet.

 

Geopolitically a heavily armed NK works to China and Russias advantage.

 

The losers in this situation are Japan, who are now vulnerable targets forever in the bigger picture. I wonder how their people feel about ballistic missiles being freely flown over their families by a hostile nation.

Who is 'us' and what should we do?