Understanding the North Korean nightmare.

[Don Dan]

Getting out of hand now. I feel there will be an air or missile strike on North Korea in the not to distant future.

 

North Korea has staged a fresh missile test, with the projectile flying over northern Japan before landing in the sea early on Tuesday, the Japanese government has said.

No effort was made by the Japanese to shoot down the missile, which flew over Japanese territory at dawn.

The missile is reported to have broken into three pieces before it landed, local media reported.

On Saturday North Korea fired three short-range missiles into the sea.

In the latest incident the Japanese government warned people in the missile's flight range to take precautions, but public broadcaster NHK said there was no signs of any damage.

[Ray Gin]

"That Korean laddie" is certainly pushing his luck a bit.

[Riddley Walker]

There was a time when I would have said the Royal Navy was the best and most professional navy in the world, regardless of the size. Speaking of size although the largest navy in the world the US are far from the best/most professional in the world. They have always relied on their technology more than their people and when their technology fails and it does their people are not upto the mark. Although the Royal Navy has technology too. It never forgot to train it's people to the highest standard. Although we lost ships in the Falklands Warwickshire I am personally convinced we would have lost more if it had not been for the high calibre of training and professionalism we had instilled into us.

 

Whether this is true or not I have no idea but the story went like this. A US destroyer and a British destroyer happened upon each other one morning during WWII. The American offered the following as a greeting via flashing lights. Good morning limey how are you from the world's largest navy?

The reply was. Not bad yank. How are you from the world's best?

Didn't know you were in the navy John.

[Better call Saul]

This arshole can't keep firing missiles like he's at some shooting gallery at the fun fair and China or Russia need to be more vocal towards him instead of the usual rubbish about having a diplomatic approach to this.

[Thunderstruck]

There was a time when I would have said the Royal Navy was the best and most professional navy in the world, regardless of the size. Speaking of size although the largest navy in the world the US are far from the best/most professional in the world. They have always relied on their technology more than their people and when their technology fails and it does their people are not upto the mark. Although the Royal Navy has technology too. It never forgot to train it's people to the highest standard. Although we lost ships in the Falklands Warwickshire I am personally convinced we would have lost more if it had not been for the high calibre of training and professionalism we had instilled into us.

 

Whether this is true or not I have no idea but the story went like this. A US destroyer and a British destroyer happened upon each other one morning during WWII. The American offered the following as a greeting via flashing lights. Good morning limey how are you from the world's largest navy?

The reply was. Not bad yank. How are you from the world's best?

Interesting point of view from USN Officer on exchange with RN - a decade ago but it seems they didn't pay much heed to his warnings.

 

https://m.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2009-01/rude-awakening

[hueyview]

See, their at it again on the news.... One missile will land on some town or city, then all hell will break out.

[deesidejambo]

It's time to take out the trash.

 

Or is it?

 

Big test on Trump

[skinnybob72]

Drop a nuke on Pyongyang and see if NK really wants a fight?

[Jambo-Jimbo]

See, their at it again on the news.... One missile will land on some town or city, then all hell will break out.

 

Yip, only a matter of time before one goes wrong and hits either a town or a Ship or Plane.

[Ibrahim Tall]

Given their poor at best record with missile tests launching one over Japan is insanity, missile was as likely to fall Sapporo by accident as it was to make the Pacific.

[Adam Murray]

It's time to take out the trash.

 

Or is it?

 

Big test on Trump

 

 

Usual story though with situations like this, with cries that something needs to be done, then when the usual suspects step up to the mark (US and UK) and the sh*t hits the fan, it's the US and UK who are condemned.

[elvoys]

Given their poor at best record with missile tests launching one over Japan is insanity, missile was as likely to fall Sapporo by accident as it was to make the Pacific.

 

Japan announced to their folk that they had launched a missile. Can you imagine that feeling?! It seems like terrorism without having to be held accountable for bodies. 

[John Findlay]

Interesting point of view from USN Officer on exchange with RN - a decade ago but it seems they didn't pay much heed to his warnings.

 

https://m.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2009-01/rude-awakening

When you are considered the largest/strongest. You assume an air of arrogance and don't like being told you are not as good as you think you are. The Royal Navy had that arrogance in abundance pre battle of Jutland in 1916. Not so much afterwards.

[deesidejambo]

Usual story though with situations like this, with cries that something needs to be done, then when the usual suspects step up to the mark (US and UK) and the sh*t hits the fan, it's the US and UK who are condemned.

Yup.

 

The realculprits here are China and Russia for, at best, intransigence, and more likely, failure to implement agreed sanctions.

 

So it will be down to the US to put a stop to it. And of course they will be the evil ones.

 

But hey! It's Trump who is the lunatic.

[michael_bolton]

It's time to take out the trash.

 

Or is it?

 

Big test on Trump

 

 

Drop a nuke on Pyongyang and see if NK really wants a fight?

 

 

Usual story though with situations like this, with cries that something needs to be done, then when the usual suspects step up to the mark (US and UK) and the sh*t hits the fan, it's the US and UK who are condemned.

 

 

Yup.

 

The realculprits here are China and Russia for, at best, intransigence, and more likely, failure to implement agreed sanctions.

 

So it will be down to the US to put a stop to it. And of course they will be the evil ones.

 

But hey! It's Trump who is the lunatic.

I've got a vested interest here, living in the firing line, but I'd argue that far from being time to take strong action, this is a very good time for the international community to do essentially nothing.

 

The regime in the North probably don't want to die or be overthrown, so basically they aren't looking for a war. They're looking for recognition and to be left alone feeling secure in their own power. Essentially some kind of negotiated settlement. Obviously, they shouldn't be rewarded with talks for the incident with Japan, but everyone should step back and wait. Don't provoke them, don't threaten them, and definitely don't attack them. Doing so could provoke a miscalculated response and result in millions of dead people (possibly me among them, no ta).

 

So far the North can reasonably point to some perceived 'provocation' for their actions. A week or two with no such excuses would let things calm down a bit. Then take it from there. Reward normal behaviour instead of bullying.

 

There's now no good answer to this. The North should have been taken out years ago before it became too dangerous to do it. It's impossible now. People saying the international community should 'do something'... Do what? Provoke the deaths of everybody who lives in Seoul? It's too late. Blame the leaders in the 80s and 90s and 00s who had the opportunity to do something but chose not to because it was the easy way to go. It's too late now.

 

We're stuck with North Korea until (and unless) there's some kind of internal coup. They're armed to the teeth and geographically (proximity to Seoul and Tokyo) and politically (China doesn't want a unified Korea) hold good cards.

 

No point blaming Trump, or May, or Merkel, or Abe, or anyone in power just now. The window was missed and we're now stuck with a heavily-armed, unpredictable, paranoid rogue state.

[Maple Leaf]

I've got a vested interest here, living in the firing line, but I'd argue that far from being time to take strong action, this is a very good time for the international community to do essentially nothing.

 

The regime in the North probably don't want to die or be overthrown, so basically they aren't looking for a war. They're looking for recognition and to be left alone feeling secure in their own power. Essentially some kind of negotiated settlement. Obviously, they shouldn't be rewarded with talks for the incident with Japan, but everyone should step back and wait. Don't provoke them, don't threaten them, and definitely don't attack them. Doing so could provoke a miscalculated response and result in millions of dead people (possibly me among them, no ta).

 

So far the North can reasonably point to some perceived 'provocation' for their actions. A week or two with no such excuses would let things calm down a bit. Then take it from there. Reward normal behaviour instead of bullying.

 

There's now no good answer to this. The North should have been taken out years ago before it became too dangerous to do it. It's impossible now. People saying the international community should 'do something'... Do what? Provoke the deaths of everybody who lives in Seoul? It's too late. Blame the leaders in the 80s and 90s and 00s who had the opportunity to do something but chose not to because it was the easy way to go. It's too late now.

 

We're stuck with North Korea until (and unless) there's some kind of internal coup. They're armed to the teeth and geographically (proximity to Seoul and Tokyo) and politically (China doesn't want a unified Korea) hold good cards.

 

No point blaming Trump, or May, or Merkel, or Abe, or anyone in power just now. The window was missed and we're now stuck with a heavily-armed, unpredictable, paranoid rogue state.

There is no military solution to this that won't get huge numbers of people killed, maybe millions.

 

Quiet diplomacy by all protagonists is what is required.

[deesidejambo]

This is a good test of Trumps presidency.

 

IMO the US should sit tight and say nothing. Wait this out and press China to genuinely act.

 

Let them keep firing their missiles into the sea if they want. Sooner or later they will either stop or if they are stupid they will attack Guam or Japan.

 

If they do attack then US then had simply no choice but to quickly respond.

 

The real culprits in this issue are China

[niblick1874]

I've got a vested interest here, living in the firing line, but I'd argue that far from being time to take strong action, this is a very good time for the international community to do essentially nothing.

 

The regime in the North probably don't want to die or be overthrown, so basically they aren't looking for a war. They're looking for recognition and to be left alone feeling secure in their own power. Essentially some kind of negotiated settlement. Obviously, they shouldn't be rewarded with talks for the incident with Japan, but everyone should step back and wait. Don't provoke them, don't threaten them, and definitely don't attack them. Doing so could provoke a miscalculated response and result in millions of dead people (possibly me among them, no ta).

 

So far the North can reasonably point to some perceived 'provocation' for their actions. A week or two with no such excuses would let things calm down a bit. Then take it from there. Reward normal behaviour instead of bullying.

 

There's now no good answer to this. The North should have been taken out years ago before it became too dangerous to do it. It's impossible now. People saying the international community should 'do something'... Do what? Provoke the deaths of everybody who lives in Seoul? It's too late. Blame the leaders in the 80s and 90s and 00s who had the opportunity to do something but chose not to because it was the easy way to go. It's too late now.

 

We're stuck with North Korea until (and unless) there's some kind of internal coup. They're armed to the teeth and geographically (proximity to Seoul and Tokyo) and politically (China doesn't want a unified Korea) hold good cards.

 

No point blaming Trump, or May, or Merkel, or Abe, or anyone in power just now. The window was missed and we're now stuck with a heavily-armed, unpredictable, paranoid rogue state.

 

Yep, this is where I am at.

 

The time for pointing fingers is not now. Educating people just where this could go if point scoring and the likes is aloud to be put ahead of peaceful solutions is not a bad thing.

 

Good post.

[Shanks]

Seems like we are all just going to sit back and do nothing. Have we not learnt from history? You can't just close your eyes and hope that everything will be okay.

 

We tried our best to avoid a war with Germany, if we went in straight away when they broke The Treaty of Versailles millions of lives would have been saved.

[mir00005]

China will end up taking out Kim Jong-Un and treating North Korea as a state until things settle down/they get the country to a decent standard.  China do a lot of trade with North Korea (Coal and resources) and probably don't want to end up dealing with a country 'pally' with the USA.

 

My hope would be that needless deaths are adverted (North Korean and otherwise), with swift Chinese intervention.  It might not suit the 'west' but it's probably a better outcome overall. 

[niblick1874]

Seems like we are all just going to sit back and do nothing. Have we not learnt from history? You can't just close your eyes and hope that everything will be okay.

 

We tried our best to avoid a war with Germany, if we went in straight away when they broke The Treaty of Versailles millions of lives would have been saved.

 

What do you suggest?

[AlimOzturk]

What do you suggest?

The world should be putting massive pressure on China to act. They are the ones putting the breaks on anyone actually getting involved because they don't want the west in the door steps and nobody wants a war with China.

[deesidejambo]

What do you suggest?

Sit back and do nothing.

 

Let NK develop nuclear weapons then give the technology to Iran and anyone else who hates the West.

 

That will promote peace in the world and will avert an all-out 3rd World War.

 

Not.

[Ibrahim Tall]

People will die whatever happens, either now or in the future. Itll only take a missile 'test' gone wrong or a stray artillery shell and it'll kick off. It's a horrific situation but if we're genuinely talking numbers then as bad as it will he now it will still a be a hell of a lot worse if NK is given further time to develop a modern nuclear weapon and a reliable delivery system for it.

[luckyBatistuta]

The only answer I can see to stop all this nonsense is for China to step up to the plate. I don't know what they can actually do, but they can certainly do a lot more than they are right now. Nobody is going to benefit from the US attacking them and neither will anyone if they just leave them to carry on the way they are and get some real dangerous weapons.

[michael_bolton]

Long-term (very long-term) the answer is probably for American troops to leave Korea and for a unified Korea to be a kind of 'Switzerland', i.e. totally neutral. This would probably be acceptable to the Chinese, who are absolutely opposed to being bordered by a unified, pro-US Korea. It depends on the Americans being prepared to withdraw. Anybody's guess.

 

Unless that happens, the Chinese will (understandably) completely oppose Korean reunification and while they oppose reunification it is not in their interests to destabilise the regime in North Korea.

 

Regime collapse would lead to potentially millions of refugees heading into China, an awful lot of weapons in NK suddenly unaccounted for (terrorist's dream) and ultimately a unified, pro-US Korea. China won't have that.

 

So, those who think China should do more should consider China's motivations at this point. They don't really have any reason to do any more.

[deesidejambo]

Long-term (very long-term) the answer is probably for American troops to leave Korea and for a unified Korea to be a kind of 'Switzerland', i.e. totally neutral. This would probably be acceptable to the Chinese, who are absolutely opposed to being bordered by a unified, pro-US Korea. It depends on the Americans being prepared to withdraw. Anybody's guess.

 

Unless that happens, the Chinese will (understandably) completely oppose Korean reunification and while they oppose reunification it is not in their interests to destabilise the regime in North Korea.

 

Regime collapse would lead to potentially millions of refugees heading into China, an awful lot of weapons in NK suddenly unaccounted for (terrorist's dream) and ultimately a unified, pro-US Korea. China won't have that.

 

So, those who think China should do more should consider China's motivations at this point. They don't really have any reason to do any more.

So you think China should sit back and let NK continue developing nuclear weapons?

 

The reasons you outline above are the reasons China does need to act because the status quo that they desire is being compromised.

 

Unless China has a hidden agenda of course.

[Seymour M Hersh]

There is no military solution to this that won't get huge numbers of people killed, maybe millions.

 

Quiet diplomacy by all protagonists is what is required.

 

 

There's only one protagonist ML and he's not interested in talking.

[AlimOzturk]

This is actually becoming alarming.

 

Got every bit of a cold war feeling about it. If, when and who will strike first. If America invade North Korea do the Chinese and Russians then declare war on America?

If so, where does that leave Britain and our special relationship with America?

 

Who will Germany, France and other EU countries throw their support behind or will they stay out of it?

 

Horrid state of affairs. Hope a peaceful resolution can be found.

[deesidejambo]

This is actually becoming alarming.

 

Got every bit of a cold war feeling about it. If, when and who will strike first. If America invade North Korea do the Chinese and Russians then declare war on America?

If so, where does that leave Britain and our special relationship with America?

 

Who will Germany, France and other EU countries throw their support behind or will they stay out of it?

 

Horrid state of affairs. Hope a peaceful resolution can be found.

A peaceful solution is easy. China.

 

America don't want to invade or change regime in NK. All that does is antagonise China.

 

But America do want them to just stop firing missiles ever closer to them or their allies.

 

This is where China comes in. It has the clout to stop NK. But it won't.

 

If this ends in disaster for Koreans on both sides of the border the culprits are China. I'm starting to think China may have a hidden agenda

[luckyBatistuta]

Long-term (very long-term) the answer is probably for American troops to leave Korea and for a unified Korea to be a kind of 'Switzerland', i.e. totally neutral. This would probably be acceptable to the Chinese, who are absolutely opposed to being bordered by a unified, pro-US Korea. It depends on the Americans being prepared to withdraw. Anybody's guess.

 

Unless that happens, the Chinese will (understandably) completely oppose Korean reunification and while they oppose reunification it is not in their interests to destabilise the regime in North Korea.

 

Regime collapse would lead to potentially millions of refugees heading into China, an awful lot of weapons in NK suddenly unaccounted for (terrorist's dream) and ultimately a unified, pro-US Korea. China won't have that.

 

So, those who think China should do more should consider China's motivations at this point. They don't really have any reason to do any more.

I do agree with you on the fact that China don't want a reunification, but this isn't going to end well for anyone (including China) if it continues the way it is. The Americans are never going to just withdraw and if they did, is that really good for the South and would they want that. China have more sway and can apply more pressure on what North Korea do, than anyone else and need to do so, but I can understand in a way their reluctance. The main thing is that we don't want anyone taking the crazy line of attacking them.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

This is actually becoming alarming.

 

Got every bit of a cold war feeling about it. If, when and who will strike first. If America invade North Korea do the Chinese and Russians then declare war on America?

If so, where does that leave Britain and our special relationship with America?

 

Who will Germany, France and other EU countries throw their support behind or will they stay out of it?

 

Horrid state of affairs. Hope a peaceful resolution can be found.

 

NATO, an attack on America would................well you know the rest, so Germany, France etc would have little choice but to back the US.

 

China holds the key here, only they can reel in Kim Jong-un if indeed they can, if he's not become so drunk on his own self-importance and actually believes he could take on America in a nuclear or conventional war.

[luckyBatistuta]

NATO, an attack on America would................well you know the rest, so Germany, France etc would have little choice but to back the US.

 

China holds the key here, only they can reel in Kim Jong-un if indeed they can, if he's not become so drunk on his own self-importance and actually believes he could take on America in a nuclear or conventional war.

I think China is the key to all this, but as you say, is it too late. I just wish they could get someone close to him to take him out, as he's never going to be stable. As long as he remains in control, they'll always be a threat...he's a madman.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

I think China is the key to all this, but as you say, is it too late. I just wish they could get someone close to him to take him out, as he's never going to be stable. As long as he remains in control, they'll always be a threat...he's a madman.

 

I am starting to believe that Kim is indeed mad, just look at his reaction when a missile is launched, he's like some mad megalomaniac out of a Bond film.

 

Somebody needs to send in a team and take him out, pronto.

[Cade]

Aye coz assassinating the leader definitely won't trigger a knee-jerk invasion of the South, eh?

 

[luckyBatistuta]

Aye coz assassinating the leader definitely won't trigger a knee-jerk invasion of the South, eh?

 

They'll probably all be glad, they might look like they all love him, but they all have to, or they'll meet the same fate as his uncle.

[Boris]

I think China is the key to all this, but as you say, is it too late. I just wish they could get someone close to him to take him out, as he's never going to be stable. As long as he remains in control, they'll always be a threat...he's a madman.

 

He's a product of his environment, so to us he seems mad, but he's quite sane, by North Korean standards.

 

And if you take him out, then the Generals take over.  They may be even worse!

 

[Cade]

They'll probably all be glad, they might look like they all love him, but they all have to, or they'll meet the same fate as his uncle.

Aye Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan have all worked out just grand after we got rid of the head honcho

All the people came together and made a new eden.

[michael_bolton]

So you think China should sit back and let NK continue developing nuclear weapons?

 

The reasons you outline above are the reasons China does need to act because the status quo that they desire is being compromised.

 

Unless China has a hidden agenda of course.

 

I don't think China necessarily considers it a problem to their national interest for NK to have nukes. Look at the position of strength China is in as being seen as the country that can do something. It gives China negotiating power in other areas. 'You want us to do something about NK? What will you do for us?'

 

NK is not a risk to China. China is too important to the survival of the regime. They need not fear an armed North Korea at all. But their enemies do. This doesn't seem too bad from China's point of view. That's hardly a 'hidden agenda' just a political reality. What China does have to fear is North Korean collapse leading to refugees and a unified, pro-America Korea, potentially with American troops stationed on the Chinese border. Again, that's a political reality, not a hidden agenda. Beijing knows that could ultimately lead them into a proper end-of-the-world war with America that they don't really want.

 

So, with the above in mind, what exactly can China do? There's no evidence it has significant influence on policy in North Korea. To do so, it would need to threaten the kind of sanctions that could collapse the state, leading to the very situation described above. Pyongyang knows China won't follow through on such sanctions, so would ignore any threats. China would then lose considerable credibility by not following through, having a knock on effect in their international relations elsewhere. A non-starter for Beijing. A simple rule for international relations. Never threaten something you're not prepared to do.

 

In short, China are probably relatively pleased with the status quo when considered against all other options.

 

Again, for people who want China to act, act how? What would you have them do?

[deesidejambo]

I don't think China necessarily considers it a problem to their national interest for NK to have nukes. Look at the position of strength China is in as being seen as the country that can do something. It gives China negotiating power in other areas. 'You want us to do something about NK? What will you do for us?'

 

NK is not a risk to China. China is too important to the survival of the regime. They need not fear an armed North Korea at all. But their enemies do. This doesn't seem too bad from China's point of view. That's hardly a 'hidden agenda' just a political reality. What China does have to fear is North Korean collapse leading to refugees and a unified, pro-America Korea, potentially with American troops stationed on the Chinese border. Again, that's a political reality, not a hidden agenda. Beijing knows that could ultimately lead them into a proper end-of-the-world war with America that they don't really want.

 

So, with the above in mind, what exactly can China do? There's no evidence it has significant influence on policy in North Korea. To do so, it would need to threaten the kind of sanctions that could collapse the state, leading to the very situation described above. Pyongyang knows China won't follow through on such sanctions, so would ignore any threats. China would then lose considerable credibility by not following through, having a knock on effect in their international relations elsewhere. A non-starter for Beijing. A simple rule for international relations. Never threaten something you're not prepared to do.

 

In short, China are probably relatively pleased with the status quo when considered against all other options.

 

Again, for people who want China to act, act how? What would you have them do?

Stop all trade with NK immediately.  Stop coal imports for a start.   Complete and total economic isolation.

 

If China wants the status quo its going the wrong way about it.

[michael_bolton]

Stop all trade with NK immediately.  Stop coal imports for a start.   Complete and total economic isolation.

 

If China wants the status quo its going the wrong way about it.

 

Ok. And what do you think would be the result of that?

 

Do you think it would be better or worse for China?

 

I think that if China did that it would destabilise North Korea to such an extent that two things would happen.

 

Firstly, China would suddenly be dealing with a refugee emergency as Pyongyang would not back down. They see weapons as survival. Secondly, North Korea would feel surrounded by enemies, the paranoia would increase, conflict would become more likely. Even China would no longer be invulnerable as they'd have made themselves a target for attack. Conflict down the line would become inevitable. This would lead to the end of North Korea and American soldiers near the Chinese border.

 

China much prefer what they have now.

[deesidejambo]

Ok. And what do you think would be the result of that?

 

Do you think it would be better or worse for China?

 

I think that if China did that it would destabilise North Korea to such an extent that two things would happen.

 

Firstly, China would suddenly be dealing with a refugee emergency as Pyongyang would not back down. They see weapons as survival. Secondly, North Korea would feel surrounded by enemies, the paranoia would increase, conflict would become more likely. Even China would no longer be invulnerable as they'd have made themselves a target for attack. Conflict down the line would become inevitable. This would lead to the end of North Korea and American soldiers near the Chinese border.

 

China much prefer what they have now.

You dont get the point.

 

Of course China prefer the status quo.  Nobody is denying that.

 

But that is what they are not going to get if they keep on supporting NK.    If they do nothing then ooner or later there will be a big war with many people killed on both sides of the border.

 

To keep the region stable and hence maintain their status quo they need to stop NK.  If that means some economic loss they thats the price they will accept if it stops NK.

 

But if they do nothing the region will slip into war.

[michael_bolton]

You dont get the point.

 

Of course China prefer the status quo.  Nobody is denying that.

 

But that is what they are not going to get if they keep on supporting NK.    If they do nothing then ooner or later there will be a big war with many people killed on both sides of the border.

 

To keep the region stable and hence maintain their status quo they need to stop NK.  If that means some economic loss they thats the price they will accept if it stops NK.

 

But if they do nothing the region will slip into war.

 

I disagree completely.

 

I think doing nothing right now is exactly the right approach.

 

Opening talks rewards threatening behaviour. Attacking North Korea in any way risks escalating to the point where we have a war.

 

Doing nothing is the best of bad options. It's too late. The time for action has passed, and now we have to live with the consequences.

 

Blame the leaders of the last twenty or thirty years. Squeezing NK now would be wholly irresponsible.

 

If NK is not threatened, then they won't attack anybody. The regime hasn't gone to all this effort and spent all this money and taken all this time to arm itself just to get itself killed.

[deesidejambo]

I disagree completely.

 

I think doing nothing right now is exactly the right approach.

 

Opening talks rewards threatening behaviour. Attacking North Korea in any way risks escalating to the point where we have a war.

 

Doing nothing is the best of bad options. It's too late. The time for action has passed, and now we have to live with the consequences.

 

Blame the leaders of the last twenty or thirty years. Squeezing NK now would be wholly irresponsible.

Well you better get yourself a helmet.

[michael_bolton]

Well you better get yourself a helmet.

 

Maybe, maybe not.

 

I don't think your argument will be forwarded by many people making the decisions though.

 

North Korea is already a humanitarian disaster. But squeezing the regime just risks spreading that to the rest of Korea and Japan, perhaps even further afield. And in its wake the decision would leave the potential for (and perhaps even inevitability of) a second-stage war between America and China in Russia's neighbourhood, clearly involving them too.

 

Doing nothing isn't great, but it's better. By miles.

[Adam Murray]

Maybe, maybe not.

 

I don't think your argument will be forwarded by many people making the decisions though.

 

North Korea is already a humanitarian disaster. But squeezing the regime just risks spreading that to the rest of Korea and Japan, perhaps even further afield. And in its wake the decision would leave the potential for (and perhaps even inevitability of) a second-stage war between America and China in Russia's neighbourhood, clearly involving them too.

 

Doing nothing isn't great, but it's better. By miles.

 

When do China, or indeed America for that matter, stop doing nothing though? As it seems that North Korea are going to continue doing what they are doing, do the powers that be wait for one of these rogue missiles to land on a Japanese town or city, or do they wait until they develop the capabilities to actually make them go where they want them to go, or worse still, till they develop a nuclear warhead?

[Maple Leaf]

There's only one protagonist ML and he's not interested in talking.

There's a difference between a protagonist and an antagonist/aggressor.  Kim is the only aggressor, I agree, and he's a nutcase.

 

But the protagonists are the leaders of China, the USA, Japan, and the two Koreas.  They all need to get in a room and sort it out.  Kim needs to be told that, no matter what, if he starts a fight with the USA, he's going to finish up dead and his country will be a smoking ruin.  Even nutcases understand that talk.

[John Findlay]

Like all these things. There will be far more going on behind the scenes that is ever admitted to in front of the media.

[Maple Leaf]

Like all these things. There will be far more going on behind the scenes that is ever admitted to in front of the media.

Here's hoping!

[deesidejambo]

Here's hoping!

That's always the case. But if they sort out a diplomatic solution for the current situation it simply buys NK time to work more on their nuclear weapons and delivery methods. So the next time round it's worse still.

 

On the other hand it gives the west time to destabilise NK by getting information into the country to try and get internal action. Similar to Vietnam and the old Soviet Union - both were westernised from inside.

 

And who will lose if this happens? Step forward China.