luckyBatistuta Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Probably impractical in a built up area but couldn't they water bomb it using a plane or something. Never thought about that, why not? They've had problems getting the engines getting to the building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyBatistuta Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 My mate bought a place in there a few years ago with a tenant discount, just been stung for four grand for his share of the cost! As if he didn't feel bad enough about stumping that up, now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwayssunnyingorgie Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Probably impractical in a built up area but couldn't they water bomb it using a plane or something. I don't think we have fire fighting planes, all it would really do is soak the roof anyway and possibly cause more damage and send concrete and windows down onto the firefighters below. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 As if he didn't feel bad enough about stumping that up, now... In Scotland the insulation under the cladding has to be fireproof thankfully. God it's horrible though eh? I lived in a 22 storey place in Salford, it's a terrifying thought, just awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All roads lead to Gorgie Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Never thought about that, why not? They've had problems getting the engines getting to the building. I was actually thinking about that earlier as you could see the hoses could only reach half way up. Maybe it was too dangerous to try if they thought there were still survivors higher up, plus I am not sure if this country has the right type of aircraft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milky_26 Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Probably impractical in a built up area but couldn't they water bomb it using a plane or something. i would imagine that would only affect the fire on the outside of the building and most of the fire would probably be inside the building. So might not be that effective Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All roads lead to Gorgie Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 i would imagine that would only affect the fire on the outside of the building and most of the fire would probably be inside the building. So might not be that effective It would only have worked very early on when the fire was spreading up the cladding and there is no way anything like that could be set up so quickly. It was just a thought but impractical I can see that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notts1874 Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 How is this fire still burning? I know its got the oxygen but what on earth can be left in there that is flammable that hasn't already been burnt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamhammer Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Last thing I would be doing in that situation is filming myself. WTF is up with people these days? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabienleclerq Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Just watched an interview and a young guy was having a pop at the government/council whoever spent ?10m "improving" the tower, he happened to swear and the interviewer interupted him to appologise for the language. He just lost his home and potentially friends/family, I'm sure we can cope with the f word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartsfc_fan Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Really harrowing stuff. Had a tear in my eye watching the 10 o'clock news. It'll be days before the fire is out as no way the building will be safe for fire crews to go into currently. Did some extra checks around my own place before bed. Checked the smoke detectors and made sure the fire blanket in the kitchen was accessible. Even just ordered another smoke detector for the utility room on Amazon there. Height of paranoia I know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyBatistuta Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 I was actually thinking about that earlier as you could see the hoses could only reach half way up. Maybe it was too dangerous to try if they thought there were still survivors higher up, plus I am not sure if this country has the right type of aircraft. Pretty sure it was a case of...'they couldn't' get to the higher floors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyBatistuta Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 In Scotland the insulation under the cladding has to be fireproof thankfully. God it's horrible though eh? I lived in a 22 storey place in Salford, it's a terrifying thought, just awful. It really is, there must be folk all around the world who are panicking about the fact they are living in a high rise, after watching this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyBatistuta Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Did anyone see the guy on the news this morning who was going nuts. He kept swearing and saying that the fire was deliberate, as the other posh folk all around them and the council wanted them all out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All roads lead to Gorgie Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 How is this fire still burning? I know its got the oxygen but what on earth can be left in there that is flammable that hasn't already been burnt? Possibly TVs and other larger plastic objects which would melt down but still burn on for some time. Just a guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Салатные палочки Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 News now saying the fire brigade have now checked most floors. Police saying that the death toll remains at 12 but that it is likely to rise. I know it's very unlikely but I hope that is doesn't rise and that most of the residents made it out on time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 (edited) Did anyone see the guy on the news this morning who was going nuts. He kept swearing and saying that the fire was deliberate, as the other posh folk all around them and the council wanted them all out. I did, he also said that it cost about 63,000 pounds to fix the lifts and he also said no way was ?10 million pound spent on that block . Another thing he said that he and his mum have lived there for a long time and have never seen any fires. Will add that i think the boy is just so full of sadness and anger. Seems he is full of anger which is understandable, poor boy. Edited June 15, 2017 by maroonlegions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escobar PHM Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 How is this fire still burning? I know its got the oxygen but what on earth can be left in there that is flammable that hasn't already been burnt? Ruptured Gas main inside the building apparently Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Ruptured gas main has since been isolated and the fire was put fully out at about 2am this morning. Building is too dangerous for fire and rescue crews to go in and perform a fully detailed search. Specialists being called in to discuss how to shore up the building so that a recovery effort can be made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Death toll up to 17 now and likely to rise further, Police have just announced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Death toll has risen to 17, with more expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escobar PHM Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Death toll up to 17 now and likely to rise further, Police have just announced. Police declining to put a number on those missing as it would be too distressing. You have to assume its in 3 figures. Going to take several weeks to recover all of them. Imagine the condition those bodies will be in FFS what a horrible job for someone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Police declining to put a number on those missing as it would be too distressing. You have to assume its in 3 figures. Going to take several weeks to recover all of them. Imagine the condition those bodies will be in FFS what a horrible job for someone. Part of the reason why the Police can't give an accurate number of the missing is that some of those who are missing have been reported as being missing multiple times, one man had been reported missing 46 times, so you can see why the Police don't want to put a figure out right now, until they have checked and re-checked and checked the lists again and again. They will have an idea, I'm sure of that, as they only need to count the number of people who managed to get out themselves, who were rescued and those who are in hospital, take that number away from the estimated number of people who were staying there and that'll give you a rough idea of the number of the missing. Sadly, I agree it possibly could be many dozens of people who didn't get out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I P Knightley Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Part of the reason why the Police can't give an accurate number of the missing is that some of those who are missing have been reported as being missing multiple times, one man had been reported missing 46 times, so you can see why the Police don't want to put a figure out right now, until they have checked and re-checked and checked the lists again and again. They will have an idea, I'm sure of that, as they only need to count the number of people who managed to get out themselves, who were rescued and those who are in hospital, take that number away from the estimated number of people who were staying there and that'll give you a rough idea of the number of the missing. Sadly, I agree it possibly could be many dozens of people who didn't get out. They can't afford to go public with numbers which are later questioned. They have to stick to what they know to be accurate at the point. They can't accurately count the number who got out by themselves; a lot of those dispersed as soon as they were out. My son's mate and his sister went straight away to a relative's (or friend's); not far away but they didn't stop to check in with anyone - not sure there was anyone there yet. In fact, one of the boys aunties was on the TV in the morning pleading for information that the lad & his sister were safe, such was the confusion. They can only make a rough guess as to who was in the building before it went up. Muslim families move around to break the Ramadan fast - some may have gone to Grenfell; others from Grenfell may have gone elsewhere. Residents may have had others staying over for any reason and other residents could have stopped out with friends for the night. I suspect that the only way they'll have an accurate number is by counting as they find the bodies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac_fae_Gillie Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Every interview seems to be with people from 7th or 8th floor which seems as far as Firefighters got.. my fear been unless people exited early by own means from higher floors there could be a huge death toll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Nobody's listening. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/15/cladding-in-2014-melbourne-high-rise-blaze-also-used-in-grenfell-tower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwayssunnyingorgie Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Every interview seems to be with people from 7th or 8th floor which seems as far as Firefighters got.. my fear been unless people exited early by own means from higher floors there could be a huge death toll. I'm sure I heard they got to the 20th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 (edited) They can't afford to go public with numbers which are later questioned. They have to stick to what they know to be accurate at the point. They can't accurately count the number who got out by themselves; a lot of those dispersed as soon as they were out. My son's mate and his sister went straight away to a relative's (or friend's); not far away but they didn't stop to check in with anyone - not sure there was anyone there yet. In fact, one of the boys aunties was on the TV in the morning pleading for information that the lad & his sister were safe, such was the confusion. They can only make a rough guess as to who was in the building before it went up. Muslim families move around to break the Ramadan fast - some may have gone to Grenfell; others from Grenfell may have gone elsewhere. Residents may have had others staying over for any reason and other residents could have stopped out with friends for the night. I suspect that the only way they'll have an accurate number is by counting as they find the bodies. Yes, that is why the Police are urging people who got out and are not in any of the rescue centres to get in touch with them so as they can be removed from the missing lists and be accounted for. Edited June 15, 2017 by Jambo-Jimbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrahim Tall Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Genuine question, would bodies actually remain in the upper floors or could the fire have done enough damage that it's burned any trace and people will never be found? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwayssunnyingorgie Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Genuine question, would bodies actually remain in the upper floors or could the fire have done enough damage that it's burned any trace and people will never be found? Would depend how hot the fire was and if it was hot enough for a long enough period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Genuine question, would bodies actually remain in the upper floors or could the fire have done enough damage that it's burned any trace and people will never be found? A lot of the floors will have collapsed, so it will be a very difficult task in identifying bodies which will have been very badly burnt and then crushed amongst all the falling debris from the floors above. I heard that specialist dogs are being brought in to help as presumably they can still detect human remains in these kind of circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 (edited) Nobody's listening. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/15/cladding-in-2014-melbourne-high-rise-blaze-also-used-in-grenfell-tower Would not surprise me in the least that those responsible for any future possible "negligence" or breaches of health and safety will try and squirm out of of it. Fire prevention expert Dr Jim Glockling has gone on the record on the BBC saying that there is enough evidence from similar fires in France, Australia and Dubai ,(which has now banned this cladding), to show that there is unfolding a pattern and its to do with modern methods of construction. These modern methods of construction involve, combustible material used in inner and outer insulation through out buildings and voids. So not just the outer cladding it seems is problematic here. This could be the reason why this tower block went up so quickly in such a short space of time, it was a potential tinder box, sad , so sad and looking like it could have been avoided. Also gone on the record on the BBC is the former tenant association community officer Grenfell Tower Pilgrim Tucker. She has gone on the record on the BBC also and said that their real concerns for the safety of that block of flats was ignored by the contractors in 2015 ,(who were responsible for the refurbishment of Grenfell), and also the "Grenfell Tenant Management" ignored them , in short both of them just did not listen to their concerns. Pilgrim Tucker also stated that she and the "Grenfell Tenant Association" were aware of "multiple problems" with the building including "potential fire safety problems" and that their concerns were just not listened to. It just makes me angry to think about that time when that wall collapsed at my wee girls school because of shoddy workmanship.Cutting corners to save a few bucks. If that had happened a couple of hours later i shudder to think of what could have happened to some of the kids there at break time . Edited June 15, 2017 by maroonlegions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Would not surprise me in the least that those responsible for any future possible "negligence" or breaches of health and safety will try and squirm out of of it. Fire prevention expert Dr Jim Glockling has gone on the record on the BBC saying that there is enough evidence from similar fires in France, Australia and Dubai ,(which has now banned this cladding), to show that there is unfolding a pattern and its to do with modern methods of construction. These modern methods of construction involve, combustible material used in inner and outer insulation through out buildings and voids. So not just the outer cladding it seems is problematic here. This could be the reason why this tower block went up so quickly in such a short space of time, it was a potential tinder box, sad , so sad and looking like it could have been avoided. Also gone on the record on the BBC is the former tenant association community officer Grenfell Tower Pilgrim Tucker. She has gone on the record on the BBC also and said that their real concerns for the safety of that block of flats was ignored by the contractors in 2015 ,(who were responsible for the refurbishment of Grenfell), and also the "Grenfell Tenant Management" ignored them , in short both of them just did not listen to their concerns. Pilgrim Tucker also stated that she and the "Grenfell Tenant Association" were aware of "multiple problems" with the building including "potential fire safety problems" and that their concerns were just not listened to. It just makes me angry to think about that time when that wall collapsed at my wee girls school because of shoddy workmanship.Cutting corners to save a few bucks. If that had happened a couple of hours later i shudder to think of what could have happened to some of the kids there at break time . As is usually the case, it takes a tragedy to occur before either anyone in authority takes notice or for the fault to become known. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bindy Badgy Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 (edited) Genuine question, would bodies actually remain in the upper floors or could the fire have done enough damage that it's burned any trace and people will never be found? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3009553/ Looks like they should be able to identify people from dental records if the temperature stayed below 1100C. I've only skim read the journal (on my mobile at the moment) and I have no idea how hot it was in the flats. Edited June 15, 2017 by Stokesy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¼½¾ Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 (edited) I'm sure I heard they got to the 20th.I think it was reported that they got there at about 9.45 in the morning. Edited June 15, 2017 by Lemongrab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bindy Badgy Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Every interview seems to be with people from 7th or 8th floor which seems as far as Firefighters got.. my fear been unless people exited early by own means from higher floors there could be a huge death toll. I saw an interview with a lady that got out from the 17th. Her child woke her up and she ran as soon as she realised there was a fire. Stopping to get properly dressed could have been fatal in her case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lauriesrank Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Really harrowing stuff. Had a tear in my eye watching the 10 o'clock news. It'll be days before the fire is out as no way the building will be safe for fire crews to go into currently. Did some extra checks around my own place before bed. Checked the smoke detectors and made sure the fire blanket in the kitchen was accessible. Even just ordered another smoke detector for the utility room on Amazon there. Height of paranoia I know... I tried watching it at dinner(tea) time.... managed 5 minutes before I Burst... Had to go into the kitchen. Genuinely can't handle anything like this, however that was too much, still upset for the people. And yes, all 5 of my smokies were checked last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 The Government has announce that there will be a Full Public Inquiry into this. Good, because this can't be allowed to happen ever again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 (edited) As is usually the case, it takes a tragedy to occur before either anyone in authority takes notice or for the fault to become known. Agree JJ, hopefully there will be a serious change in current legislation to prevent such devastating tragedies happening again. There should also be another look at changing the law in regards to landlords and their responsibilities to tenants who rent their properties .At present the law in England is that landlords do NOT have to make sure that their properties for rent or those that are rented out are fit for human habitation?? That should be addressed i feel. Edited June 15, 2017 by maroonlegions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 The Government has announce that there will be a Full Public Inquiry into this. Good, because this can't be allowed to happen ever again. Good news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Салатные палочки Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Reading some of the eyewitness accounts in the Guardian is horrific. It's heartbreaking to think that the choice is to throw your child out the window or watch them die from smoke inhalation or burns. It doesn't even bear thinking about. I couldn't begin to imagine the sadness and anger those involved are feeling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Not only is the Government producing a full inquiry, but Sadiq Khan has ordered an additional independent inquiry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Not only is the Government producing a full inquiry, but Sadiq Khan has ordered an additional independent inquiry. Ticker tape banner on Sky News just saying that he's 'Demanded' an Independent Inquiry, so not so sure that he's ordered an Independent Inquiry, not sure that he has that authority TBH. Seems to be an angry crowd gathering outside a church in which Sadiq Khan is in at the moment, could turn ugly, extra Police being drafted in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrahim Tall Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3009553/ Looks like they should be able to identify people from dental records if the temperature stayed below 1100C. I've only skim read the journal (on my mobile at the moment) and I have no idea how hot it was in the flats. Reassuring in some way, atleast the families of those missing might some closure if the worst has happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stupid Sexy Flanders Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Khan live on Sky News right now, getting some stick from the crowd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CostaJambo Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 (edited) Daily Mail online reporting it was allegedly a faulty fridge on the 4th floor. Named and photographed the poor sod too. Not as if he meant it. Edited June 15, 2017 by CostaJambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Findlay Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Person has to have been to a dentist to have dental records. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notts1874 Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Watching the scrum with Sadiq Khan there are understandably some extremely angry people. I wouldn't be surprised if turns to violence at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bindy Badgy Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Person has to have been to a dentist to have dental records. I was thinking about this earlier. It isn't hard to imagine an elderly immigrant from a working class family not bothering to get his or her teeth checked out as it costs money that can be spent on other things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwindonJambo Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Daily Mail online reporting it was allegedly a faulty fridge on the 4th floor. Named and photographed the poor sod too. Not as if he meant it. Are you honestly suprised by the depths that rag will stoop to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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