GlasgoJambo Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Horrific. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 First thing that went through my mind. Bit of an extreme way to make a point though. Agreed, it would be a very extreme way to make a point - like I say, Im not saying it is the case...... but such is the content on their blog (talking about 'mini-mafia's and such like amongst others) - there will be questions which need to be asked if only to rule people out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bindy Badgy Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 (edited) Unconfirmed reports that a faulty fridge on 4th floor may have started the fire... Edit - this was reported on BBC News so not some random social media site. Although where the BBC got the info.... Seems to be speculation based on an interview with someone that escaped from the tower. The BBC have emphasised the report about the fridge is unconfirmed which raises the question, why are they repeating it in the first place? This kind of reporting is why you end up with the conspiracy nonsense around events like the Sandy Hook massacre. Edited June 14, 2017 by Stokesy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 (edited) Horrific and so sad. Thoughts are with those who have lost loved ones. The company director of that company who were responsible for the refurbishment of that tower block was grilled by Piers Morgan on ITV"s "This Morning" programme by phone and he seemed very unwilling to give satisfactory answers to some tough questions on the type of material used for insulation. At the end of his interview his phone suddenly went dead , did he hang up?? Another thing, is it possible that councils who tenure out contracts to companies give to the lowest bidder , i ask because i would imagine that some very tough questions need to be answered here and i would also imagine a lot of those poor people who have lost ones or are in hospital will want a lot of awkward questions asked too. I would if i had lost love ones in this very sad incident. The same material that was used on the London tower block was banned in Dubai due to the number of fires . Health and safety should be all over this big time. Edited June 14, 2017 by maroonlegions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Салатные палочки Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 (edited) Whatever happened and whatever caused it, no building should go up like that and as quickly as that in this day and age. You only need to look at the pictures this morning to see that the whatever was used on the outside of the building was highly flammable. The materials were clearly purchased on the cheap which begs the question, what are the local authorities/borough's regulations on the materials used for the cladding/refurbishment and would they not need to clear this before the work was carried out. Are they as accountable as the landlords should it be discovered that this fueled the fire. This sort of thing was rife in the 70's, buildings done on the cheap with materials thought to be space age but in reality highly dangerous and flammable. Summerland being an example of how devastatingly quickly a fire can spread when the materials used are unsuitable. Edit. maroonlegions beat me to it with similar questions. Edited June 14, 2017 by Salad Fingers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bauld Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 (edited) Fires restarted. That woman doing the interviews is horrific. You would find the same levels of compassion in the eyes of a great white shark. Edited June 14, 2017 by Bauld Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Seems to be speculation based on an interview with someone that escaped from the tower. The BBC have emphasised the report about the fridge is unconfirmed which raises the question, why are they repeating it in the first place? This kind of reporting is why you end up with the conspiracy nonsense around events like the Sandy Hook massacre. The interview that I saw, was from a man who said it was his neighbour across the landing on the 4th floor who woke him up saying it was his fridge which had caught fire. Of course we'll have to wait until the investigation is carried out, however this guy seemed pretty certain that was the cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Whatever happened and whatever caused it, no building should go up like that and as quickly as that in this day and age. You only need to look at the pictures this morning to see that the whatever was used on the outside of the building was highly flammable. The materials were clearly purchased on the cheap which begs the question, what are the local authorities/borough's regulations on the materials used for the cladding/refurbishment and would they not need to clear this before the work was carried out. Are they as accountable as the landlords should it be discovered that this fueled the fire. This sort of thing was rife in the 70's, buildings done on the cheap with materials thought to be space age but in reality highly dangerous and flammable. Summerland being an example of how devastatingly quickly a fire can spread when the materials used are unsuitable. Edit. maroonlegions beat me to it with similar questions. Good points mate. I do agree that this tragedy could start a whole lot of questions regarding the councils outsourcing and tenuring of contracts to this particular company who were responsible for the insulation martial they used. As usual money is the dictator and council budgets need to be adhered too, i see some part of the tower block was not insulated and that begs the question did they run out of money to finish it?? Lets hope money or budget constraints were not responsible for leasing the contact to the lowest bidder, One good thing out of this but still sad in regards to the mother of her baby who she threw out of a window to people below who one of them managed to catch the baby safely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All roads lead to Gorgie Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 It looks to me like fake materials have been used here as surely modern cladding has to pass fire regulations. Terrible scenes. My thoughts are with everyone affected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bill Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Horrific scenes. 400-600 people lived in that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 It looks to me like fake materials have been used here as surely modern cladding has to pass fire regulations. Terrible scenes. My thoughts are with everyone affected. I would tend to agree, obviously without knowing the full story, however the council, the contractors who carried out the refurbishment all have to satisfy building regulations, and not forgetting that the building had been inspected after the work was completed. Just because there is a label saying the material is fire proof doesn't necessary mean that it is, if it happened to be fake, of course pure speculation on my part. A building should not go up like that, not nowadays it shouldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bindy Badgy Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 The interview that I saw, was from a man who said it was his neighbour across the landing on the 4th floor who woke him up saying it was his fridge which had caught fire. Of course we'll have to wait until the investigation is carried out, however this guy seemed pretty certain that was the cause. It's the same interview I saw. I'd be very wary of trusting it as it's a second-hand story coming from someone that was obviously distressed and wouldn't have been thinking clearly. It's as plausible an explanation as any but eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Horrifying. Imagine being trapped in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 6 fatalities announced/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bindy Badgy Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 6 fatalities announced/ It'll be a miracle if that doesn't increase. I hope I'm wrong obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All roads lead to Gorgie Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 I would tend to agree, obviously without knowing the full story, however the council, the contractors who carried out the refurbishment all have to satisfy building regulations, and not forgetting that the building had been inspected after the work was completed. Just because there is a label saying the material is fire proof doesn't necessary mean that it is, if it happened to be fake, of course pure speculation on my part. A building should not go up like that, not nowadays it shouldn't. Well if the materials are legit then they must no longer be used anywhere. The pace at which they ignited is unbelievable and surely tests would have shown this. As you quite rightly say let's wait and see what the experts say in due course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tars Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 It'll be a miracle if that doesn't increase. I hope I'm wrong obviously. Figure likely to rise according to Police. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escobar PHM Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 It looks to me like fake materials have been used here as surely modern cladding has to pass fire regulations. Terrible scenes. My thoughts are with everyone affected. You can tell already that people are going to jail over this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Well if the materials are legit then they must no longer be used anywhere. The pace at which they ignited is unbelievable and surely tests would have shown this. As you quite rightly say let's wait and see what the experts say in due course. Totally, something has very tragically went seriously wrong here, unfortunately it often takes a tragedy like this before anything either gets done or the faulty is discovered. Looking at those pictures on TV, and they look like something you'd see in a third world country that has no health & safety or fire regulations whatsoever. This sort of thing just shouldn't be happening anywhere, let along in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Not Kay Burley by any chance...? Not seen her yet, which is surprising as she's usually front and centre at every disaster in the UK. No doubts she'll put an appearance in later today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toggie88 Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Seen one interview with one resident saying they recently replaced the gas lines. The only reason he mentioned it was because the flames were blue, and he immediately thought of the recent works he had witnessed. If the gas line runs behind your fridge and it goes up, it would be easy to understand how someone might think their fridge started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All roads lead to Gorgie Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 You can tell already that people are going to jail over this. A representative of the residents said earlier on TV that he was threatened by contractors when he questioned some aspects of safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartsfc_fan Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Horrible reading. Thoughts are with the people caught up in this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 No lighting in the stairwells. No sprinkler system. No fire alarms in the corridors or stairwells. Only smoke alarms in the flats and those failed to go off. Firm that did the cladding went bust. Fire extinguishers not tested or replaced for years, some had "condemned, do not use" tags on them. Building owners and Council in cahoots for years, suppressing tenant's concerns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chubby1973 Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Not Kay Burley by any chance...?Think it's either jane hill or victoria derbyshire. Not heard kay burley yet. Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toggie88 Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 No lighting in the stairwells. No sprinkler system. No fire alarms in the corridors or stairwells. Only smoke alarms in the flats and those failed to go off. Firm that did the cladding went bust. Fire extinguishers not tested or replaced for years, some had "condemned, do not use" tags on them. Building owners and Council in cahoots for years, suppressing tenant's concerns. You'd think that all be bare-minimum in buildings of that height nowadays. Still people go on about the need to cut red-tape and H&S is overly strict etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo89 Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Seen one interview with one resident saying they recently replaced the gas lines. The only reason he mentioned it was because the flames were blue, and he immediately thought of the recent works he had witnessed. If the gas line runs behind your fridge and it goes up, it would be easy to understand how someone might think their fridge started. That's a good point actually. The story that the guy told on the news was that his neighbours fridge exploded. Would an electrical fire explode? Could've been a gas leak and the fridge was the ignition source? All speculation of course but it sounds as if the cladding acted like tinder and helped the fire to spread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chubby1973 Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 That re-started fire is getting more & more ferocious as you watch it!!!! Sadly, i don't think this building is going to last much longer before it comes down. Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bauld Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 No lighting in the stairwells. No sprinkler system. No fire alarms in the corridors or stairwells. Only smoke alarms in the flats and those failed to go off. Firm that did the cladding went bust. Fire extinguishers not tested or replaced for years, some had "condemned, do not use" tags on them. Building owners and Council in cahoots for years, suppressing tenant's concerns. They're getting their arse felt for this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 That's a good point actually. The story that the guy told on the news was that his neighbours fridge exploded. Would an electrical fire explode? Could've been a gas leak and the fridge was the ignition source? All speculation of course but it sounds as if the cladding acted like tinder and helped the fire to spread. A fire expert was saying that a tower block is designed to contain the fire on that floor only, it should not spread to other floors, however if the fire is on the outside i.e. the cladding then there is nothing to stop is spreading upwards to other floors, such as this seems to have done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zico Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Absolutely horrific. Hard to believe a building can go up so quickly these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 That re-started fire is getting more & more ferocious as you watch it!!!! Sadly, i don't think this building is going to last much longer before it comes down. Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk You can see it's just a shell now on the higher floors, it'll have to be demolished if it doesn't collapse by itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toggie88 Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 One guy pointing out that fire doesn't climb up concrete without something to latch onto. The cladding appears to have simultaneously been fuel for the fire on the outside of the building, while the gap between concrete and cladding acted like a chimney. All this talk about cladding, the only thing I can think of similar in Edinburgh is the flats at Dumbiedykes. They had stuff put around the existing structure to spruce them up a bit about 10 years ago (iirc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locky Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Wow. Totally missed this somehow til now. Absolutely horrific. I pray to god that this was nothing but a freak accident. That statement from the residents group is a little strange though given the timing of this. Either way, it seems as though there's blood on someone's hands. Poor people who've lost lives, relatives and their homes. I hope if anyone is found guilty of negligence, they're locked up for a very long time and lose everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 (edited) Hope they got out Many reports of babies and children being thrown from the building by trapped families Edited June 14, 2017 by Cade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 One stairwell and one lift shaft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Say What Again Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 That pic made me well up, Cade :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Suggestion is that, due to its construction and the fact its concrete rather than steel, the building isn't at risk of collapse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toggie88 Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 That's a good point actually. The story that the guy told on the news was that his neighbours fridge exploded. Would an electrical fire explode? Could've been a gas leak and the fridge was the ignition source? All speculation of course but it sounds as if the cladding acted like tinder and helped the fire to spread. I'm sure there is some sort of explodable cannisters or something behind fridges. Again though, if the fire started on lower floors, dependent on how it's spreading upwards, the fridge might go and you assume that's what started it - oblivious to what's happened below. I've seen another interview with people saying it appeared to start on the 1st or 2nd floor. Horrific scenes. As others have said, in this day and age you would think we'd have sufficient safety measures. The ease in which the fire spread internally is causing concern - a lot of questions regarding fire doors etc. Anyway, all speculation. I'm sure the experts are already piecing it all together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Buaben Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Hope they got out Many reports of babies and children being thrown from the building by trapped families Its horrific.. I cant begin to imagine the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo89 Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 A fire expert was saying that a tower block is designed to contain the fire on that floor only, it should not spread to other floors, however if the fire is on the outside i.e. the cladding then there is nothing to stop is spreading upwards to other floors, such as this seems to have done. Indeed. Another interviewee stated that there was a fire in the block of flats across from this one only a few weeks ago. However this one was contained to the one flat and there was no cladding on that block. Apparently the cladding was put on the building to match the newly built school yards away. The councils vanity may have cost 100's of life's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Harrowing comments from residents and other witnesses. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/14/it-spread-so-quickly-london-fire-witness-accounts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armageddon Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 (edited) One stairwell and one lift shaft One stair is fine as it should be protected for an hour, if you get in there then you're next place should be to a place of safety. Something doesn't seem right with how it's gone up in flames. Ryden are very quick to release a statement saying they done all their work to standard. Edited June 14, 2017 by Armageddon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrahim Tall Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 (edited) One stair is fine as it should be protected for an hour, if you get in there then you're next place should be to a place of safety. Something doesn't seem right with how it's gone up in flames. Ryden are very quick to release a statement saying they done all their work to standard. Tbh to expected that they would whether it's true or not, they're basically getting openly accused in the media before a proper investigation has been done - need to defend themselves or they'll look guilty.In their defence various independent people/groups would have had to sign off their work also, including a fire inspector I'd imagine. It's not like they'll have just turned up and done the work without informing anyone so they might not be lying. Edited June 14, 2017 by Ibrahim Tall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armageddon Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 The woman on Sky News needs pulled ASAP, she's horrific. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 (edited) Information coming out surrounding Theresa May's chief of staff who apparently "sat on" a report that warned high-rise blocks were vulnerable to fire. If true then ... Seriously, why the **** would anyone need this pointed out to them? And in other news, bears shit in woods and men like blow jobs. Edited June 14, 2017 by i8hibsh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armageddon Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Information coming out surrounding Theresa May's chief of staff who apparently "sat on" a report that warned high-rise blocks were vulnerable to fire. If true then ... It's not her fault, it's those who manage the facilities or have managed the refurbishment. I bet there's no issue in managing the rental income. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 The woman on Sky News needs pulled ASAP, she's horrific.Can you imagine 12 hours ago that you would be standing in front of a burning building? What a boot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toggie88 Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Information coming out surrounding Theresa May's chief of staff who apparently "sat on" a report that warned high-rise blocks were vulnerable to fire. If true then ... These high rises have stood for decades. I will criticise the Tories every chance I get, but I'd be skeptical of anything at this stage. The cause of the fire is still unknown - the report could be completely unrelated, even if true. And then, how many high rises exist in London alone, never mind the rest of the UK? - what could have been done since that report (May's only been Prime Minister since Septermber)? An evacuation of all high rises in case of fire? It undoubtedly would have been seen as overly cautious and probably led to accusations of disenfranchising labour voters. If there's blame to be had, it'll come out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 (edited) ""Dr Jim Glocking, technical director of the Fire Protection Association (FPA), an industry body which carries out tests on fire safety issues, among other things, said a major issue was that insulation underneath cladding on the outside of tower blocks did not need to be fireproof.""The FPA had ?lobbied long and hard? for building regulations on the issue to be changed, but nothing had happened, Glocking said: ?Various ministers have said over the years that there will be an imminent review, but it keeps being put on hold, in spite of organisations like ourselves campaigning very hard.? I asked Glocking if the FPA?s message to government had been that if nothing was done then there could be a very major incident. He replied: ?Sadly, that is very much the case.? Edited June 14, 2017 by Cade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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