London Bridge

[Armageddon]

No comment as I'll be banned and probably lose my job.

 

Hope everybody is ok down there. Much love.

[peter_hmfc]

You are aware that the illegality of homosexuality was on the statute book as late as 1982 in the UK (see "Save Ulster from Sodomy")?

You do realise we don't live in the 1980s anymore? The UK canters forward progressively, in Saudi Arabia, women only got the vote two years ago. That's progress at less than snails pace.

 

Would they have been sent to concentration camps like Chechyn gays, or thrown off buildings to calls of "Allah Akbar", or stoned to death?

[elvoys]

religiously motivated or not, are they not just homicidal maniacs?

Not necessarily - a clear belief in religious ideology that involves martyrdom and killing for salvation could arguably be much more logical, clear headed and sensible than chancing the hellfire question .

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

You do realise we don't live in the 1980s anymore?

 

Would they have been sent to concentration camps like Chechyn gays, or thrown off buildings to calls of "Allah Akbar", or stoned to death?

 

Yes I am.

 

The point being that the 12 countries you refer to are hardly shining lights of democracy and human rights. Is that connected to them being Islamic? Probably.

[elvoys]

You do realise we don't live in the 1980s anymore? The UK canters forward progressively, in Saudi Arabia, women only got the vote two years ago. That's progress at less than snails pace.

 

Would they have been sent to concentration camps like Chechyn gays, or thrown off buildings to calls of "Allah Akbar", or stoned to death?

Or beheaded in the Vatican? (ie Mecca)

[peter_hmfc]

Yes I am.

 

The point being that the 12 countries you refer to are hardly shining lights of democracy and human rights. Is that connected to them being Islamic? Probably.

Because Islamic societies are the least progressive. Islamic societies cannot move with the modern day, and cannot change aspects of the Koran that would be considered criminal in Western society, as that would insist their Prophet was too a criminal.

 

If you want another example the Koran endorses wife-beating, as the Prophet Muhammad struck his 9 year old wife. To say wife-beating should be a crime is to say Muhammad did wrong, which is sacrilege to Muslims, therefore it cannot be considered illegal. 5,000 women in Pakistan are beaten to death each year, and thousands more are maimed or disabled *. By contrast, 3,000 died in 9/11.

 

* For source see Nicki Elle Andersons "Encyclopedia On Domestic Violence".

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Well if you want another example the Koran endorses wife-beating, as the Prophet Muhammad struck his 9 year old wife. To say wife-beating should be a crime is to say Muhammad did wrong, which is sacrilege to Muslims, therefore it cannot be considered illegal. 5,000 women in Pakistan are beaten to death each year, and thousands more are maimed or disabled *. By contrast, 3,000 died in 9/11.

 

* For source see Nicki Elle Andersons "Encyclopedia On Domestic Violence".

 

And again, that isn't exclusively Muslim either. Look up where the phrase "rule of thumb" came from.

 

The point being, in a democracy, you accept that the rule of law is driven by lawmakers that are elected. If you can't accept that, maybe Western democracy isn't for you. Most Muslims who live in Western democracies do accept the rule of law.

[peter_hmfc]

And again, that isn't exclusively Muslim either. Look up where the phrase "rule of thumb" came from.

 

The point being, in a democracy, you accept that the rule of law is driven by lawmakers that are elected. If you can't accept that, maybe Western democracy isn't for you. Most Muslims who live in Western democracies do accept the rule of law.

Geoff, again, the UK has advanced forward from those times, massively. Wife-beating is an overwhelmingly stigmatised crime now. One website shows the origin of "rule of thumb" to be circa 1782. The text of the Koran and what it preaches (such as wife-beating, sex with 9 year olds, drinking camel urine) has been the same since circe 609 when it was written. It cannot develop as to do so would insist their Prophet a criminal.

 

Re. the second point. That is the exact problem, that the Koran largely dictates what is and is not illegal (see wife-beating which is not a crime in Pakistan).

[theshed]

Two shot and 3 on the run they are saying now

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Geoff, again, the UK has advanced forward from those times, massively. Wife-beating is an overwhelmingly stigmatised crime now. One website shows the origin of "rule of thumb" to be circa 1782. The text of the Koran and what it preaches (such as wife-beating, sex with 9 year olds, drinking camel urine) has been the same since circe 609 when it was written. It cannot develop as to do so would insist their Prophet a criminal.

 

Re. the second point. That is the exact problem, that the Koran largely dictates what is and is not illegal (see wife-beating which is not a crime in Pakistan).

 

Indeed, but the point being that if you live in Pakistan those are the laws you live under. I've no intention of living there. Do you? Equally, I've no real interest in them changing their laws.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Two shot and 3 on the run they are saying now

Hopefully not fatal as I would like the barstewards to be tried.

[peter_hmfc]

Indeed, but the point being that if you live in Pakistan those are the laws you live under. I've no intention of living there. Do you? Equally, I've no real interest in them changing their laws.

 

I've no intentions of moving to Saudi Arabia where beheadings and honour killings are prevelant but hey! Who cares? So long as I'm fine!

 

???

 

Also yes, I would rather they change their laws, whether it be removing the abuse, murder or paedophilia. I feel the West should be strongly pressuring Islam to reform in the defence of the innocent people it hurts and kills in Islamic countries. As long as liberals are decrying any criticism of Islam as "racist" or "bigotted", that will not happen.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

 

I've no intentions of moving to Saudi Arabia where beheadings and honour killings are prevelant but hey! Who cares?So long as I'm fine!

 

???

 

Stop being a clown! The point being that democracy and the rule of law prevails in the UK, Australia and other western countries. If shitholes like Pakistan enforce laws like this then they will always be shitholes.

 

Now, if someone from Pakistan moves to a western country then they have to accept the rule of law in that country.

[peter_hmfc]

Now, if someone from Pakistan moves to a western country then they have to accept the rule of law in that country.

Going by incidents such as the Koln New Year sexual assaults, no-go zones in Sweden, numerous terrorist attacks and more attempts, horrors such as Rotherham and Rochdale, no-go zones in Paris, etc, integration is not happening.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Going by incidents such as the Koln New Year sexual assaults, no-go zones in Sweden, numerous terrorist attacks and more attempts, horrors such as Rotherham and Rochdale, no-go zones in Paris, etc, integration is not happening.

 

Aye, you can say that, or you can look round you and see how much people have integrated without a song or dance into the overall community.

 

I do agree that the way the above incidents were reported and commented on was dreadful, as if some special protection was needed.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Guy on 5 Live claiming that he carried a wounded police officer into hospital!

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Met saying 3 vermin dead and 6 innocent people dead. 20 in hospital.

[Jarhead]

Indeed, but the point being that if you live in Pakistan those are the laws you live under. I've no intention of living there. Do you? Equally, I've no real interest in them changing their laws.

TBH what you've just posted I find a bit depressing Geoff.

As a lot of these acts are being carried out by second generation immigrants could it not be possible that as they become disillusioned teenagers the ways of the old country start to become more appealing?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

TBH what you've just posted I find a bit depressing Geoff.

As a lot of these acts are being carried out by second generation immigrants could it not be possible that as they become disillusioned teenagers the ways of the old country start to become more appealing?

 

Possibly. More likely they're "seduced" by arseholes eager to use them as fodder for sickening ends.

[Don Dan]

A leave out of the Israelis book when it comes to these kind of attacks. Shoot the islamists murdering sods dead no messing around.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

I just dunno about all this shit anymore but there's definitely something distasteful about jumping on an Internet forum in double quick time to real off a whack of prepared facts and figures about evil Islam is all while people are still literally dying on the street.

[neilnunb]

Met saying 3 vermin dead and 6 innocent people dead. 20 in hospital.

Now saying 48 taken to various hospitals.

[elvoys]

Thankfully Europe is nothing like Israel.

 

Another horrible incident last night, but as ever there are some truly amazing stories of individual bravery coming out as well

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You could be right in the sense that Israel does not have as regular car ramming attacks followed by knifing since they built the wall. But armed police patrols, walled perimeters round attractions etc have all the hallmarks of a similar security state. Europe's major cities are more vulnerable than Tel Aviv today - that's just a startling truth.

 

Of and I forgot to add - the multicultural, multi ethic, enlightened Israel is absolutely f#%king glorious btw. This should be more apparent to people now than ever seeing as they have put up with this for their entire existence.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

What we need is another vigil.

[elvoys]

This is not the time to go into it. Your issues around Islam and Israel cloud your every utterance on here.

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

OK, that's your opinion but I would say they clarify my thoughts on it. And it's the search for 'nuance' in what are very clear civilisational and ideological contrasts that clouds discussions.

[Jambo 4 Ever]

Very sad news

[peter_hmfc]

I just dunno about all this shit anymore but there's definitely something distasteful about jumping on an Internet forum in double quick time to real off a whack of prepared facts and figures about evil Islam is all while people are still literally dying on the street.

Yes, that's totally the gravest point here.

By "prepared facts" do you mean "knowledge"? How dare I. You'd likely complain if I was entirely uninformed about the matter as well.

Noticed you haven't condemned anyone else for their comments losted before mine "while people were dieing in the street".

 

This is easily on of the worst posts on the thread so far. Thankfully for you, it's early days.

[i8hibsh]

I am really trying to be good as I don't want to give the mods reason to bin me from this thread but I just do not know what to say. This is going to happen in Edinburgh, of that you can be sure. And all you fake, social justice warrior, someone think of their feelings, cultural cohesion, libtard, minority pandering, white privilege blaming, west hating, everything is Britain and the US's fault protesting, everyone is racist calling, let them all in thinking people will be to blame. We can stop this, we really can. We can vote. Vote for a party that will stand up to this. France failed spectacularly and opened their bumhole to the world, please let us not make the same mistake.

[Angry Haggis]

Credit to the Police services here - seemed to close down the threat at haste and ultimately saved many more lives. Rip to those affected.

 

Questions to answer now: Terror level and whether current is appropriate and whether consideration is required ahead of Thursdays general election.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I am really trying to be good as I don't want to give the mods reason to bin me from this thread but I just do not know what to say. This is going to happen in Edinburgh, of that you can be sure. And all you fake, social justice warrior, someone think of their feelings, cultural cohesion, libtard, minority pandering, white privilege blaming, west hating, everything is Britain and the US's fault protesting, everyone is racist calling, let them all in thinking people will be to blame. We can stop this, we really can. We can vote. Vote for a party that will stand up to this. France failed spectacularly and opened their bumhole to the world, please let us not make the same mistake.

Who is like your strawman on this thread precisely?

[i8hibsh]

Who is like your strawman on this thread precisely?

Not read the thread but I don't need to. The usual suspects will come on trying to convince the world how nice a person they are. No-one quite does virtue signalling like JKB.

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

Huge credit due to all the emergency services and the brave members of the public who helped. So sad that these twisted individuals have taken innocent lives again and I hope they rot in whatever afterlife they believe in. The police had to shoot them but in a way a life in solitary confinement with absolutely no outside contact would have been a better outcome. At least it is three less scum in the world.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Not read the thread but I don't need to. The usual suspects will come on trying to convince the world how nice a person they are. No-one quite does virtue signalling like JKB.

Cool. For the record, there hasn't been any up to this point.

[i8hibsh]

Cool. For the record, there hasn't been any up to this point.

GK my good man. As JKBs most prolific poster I really do not need to say this but.......oh they will come.

[Seymour M Hersh]

The apologists will be out in force in the media no doubt. 

[AlphonseCapone]

What we need is another vigil.

Good point. Could also do with some more ironic complaining on the internet about people doing things on the internet.

 

**** knows what we do about all of this. RIP the victims.

[Rab87]

I am really trying to be good as I don't want to give the mods reason to bin me from this thread but I just do not know what to say. This is going to happen in Edinburgh, of that you can be sure. And all you fake, social justice warrior, someone think of their feelings, cultural cohesion, libtard, minority pandering, white privilege blaming, west hating, everything is Britain and the US's fault protesting, everyone is racist calling, let them all in thinking people will be to blame. We can stop this, we really can. We can vote. Vote for a party that will stand up to this. France failed spectacularly and opened their bumhole to the world, please let us not make the same mistake.

I'm up for voting for the party that will stop this. What's their name so I can go ahead with it on Thursday?

[Captain Sausage]

I'm up for voting for the party that will stop this. What's their name so I can go ahead with it on Thursday?

Just to be clear...are you saying that the Conservatives arranged for 6 people to die and 20 to be injured to increase their vote share at the election?

[i8hibsh]

I'm up for voting for the party that will stop this. What's their name so I can go ahead with it on Thursday?

Not a party with Diane Abbott, Corbyn or a wee guy called Nicola.

[Adam Murray]

My only surprise, is that people are surprised and shocked that this has happened again.

[AlphonseCapone]

Not a party with Diane Abbott, Corbyn or a wee guy called Nicola.

Theresa May? She's doing great at stopping it.

[i8hibsh]

Theresa May? She's doing great at stopping it.

I'd trust the Tories more with this than any other.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Theresa May? She's doing great at stopping it.

Short of a police state, no politician can stop nutjobs.

[AlphonseCapone]

I'd trust the Tories more with this than any other.

Why though? 3 attacks since March on their watch.

[AlphonseCapone]

Short of a police state, no politician can stop nutjobs.

Of course, but I8 only name checks certain politicians as though the others can.

[i8hibsh]

Why though? 3 attacks since March on their watch.

I am talking more on a 'going forward' basis. And yes I am talking the Donald Trump way just for the avoidance of doubt.

[peter_hmfc]

Short of a police state, no politician can stop nutjobs.

 

How about deporting the known jihadists returning to Britain that are being monitored at taxpayers expense, and kicking out those who are on our terrorist watch list? Extreme vetting so we know who these "Syrian" "refugees" actually are and what their criminal background is (if they have one).

[Rab87]

Just to be clear...are you saying that the Conservatives arranged for 6 people to die and 20 to be injured to increase their vote share at the election?

Of course not. How did you come to that conclusion from my post?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

How about deporting the known jihadists returning to Britain that are being monitored at taxpayers expense, and kicking out those who are on our terrorist watch list? Extreme vetting so we know who these "Syrian" "refugees" actually are and what their criminal background is (if they have one).

How do you "kick out" citizens of your own country?

[AlphonseCapone]

I am talking more on a 'going forward' basis. And yes I am talking the Donald Trump way just for the avoidance of doubt.

What's that, strong restrictions on who comes in?

 

Won't deal with the home grown 2nd generation problem which outweighs the newly arrived by quite a distance.