Walker: Heads drop too easily

[BobbyJenkins]

In other words "lets look at the excuses".

 

Your post translates roughly to "Hearts total and complete collapse under Ian Cathro IS acceptable due to excuses a, b and c"

 

This isn't a dip in form this is a 3 month slide from 2nd to 5th in the league and a pathetic effort in the cup. How is 4 wins from 19 games a dip in form. That's half a season. We have completely capitulated on all fronts.

 

The question is not whether this is fixable in the summer. Of course it is fixable, if the right man for the job is in charge.

 

 

 

My post would only translate to that is you're an unreasonable kneejerk simpleton.. A slide for the reasons I provided.  Some just want things to happen, click the fingers, life's not like that and certainly not given the context of this season.

 

I think its fixable with this man in charge.

[luckydug]

Jamie is part of the problem.He has the ability to influence a game no doubt but recently and in particular away from home he struggles to impact a game the way he should.He probably admits that in the article in fairness.would like to see him being more vocal in demanding the ball.being a lot more present shall we say.As an aside,I,ve noticed Cathro doesn't shake hands with players leaving the field when substituted.Or am i wrong?.I know he has blanked players on a few occasions and wonder if he is avoiding the players who he doesn't think have impressed him.

 

I think it's more like he avoids eye contact with the ones who are likely to have a full and frank exchange with him.

Goncalves on Sunday is one example.

[Harry Potter]

To say all that and then finish by saying that McDermid Park is a tough place to go...Sounds like getting the excuses in first. I don't believe footballers and managers should ever say publicly that somewhere is a tough place to visit - It just smacks of defeatism...By all means plan for and expect a tough game, but don't go into a game talking like you are looking forward to getting on the bus home.

Its only a hard place to go if you think its a hard place to go, StJohnstone got beat by Hamiliton 

on Saturday that shows how poor they are.

The team should be up for this and turn them over, a bit fight will do the job.

Hopefully a win for us.

[Bazzas right boot]

Problem is they know this and don't rectify it. Stop gap signings rarely work in bulk.

There is no feeling of target, belonging or ability to relate to a situation.

Taking over somebody else's work without ever knowing that person or workplace.

Temporary workers rarely work with the dedication or unity of staff members, in isolation they can and do add quality and experience.

We may as well forget this season and hope a new unit can be bonded June

See my butcher thread.

 

The biggest problem is this, the gamble on the players on short term deals. Could have went either way, unfortunately it failed.

 

Hard to motivate temporary workers.

[Romulus]

I found out a piece of information over the weekend which I found interesting. It just gives an indication of how things are different under Cathro.

 

This came straight from someone who works with the team on match day and is regularly part of the first team set up. Their opinion was that under Robbie there was strict discipline and he had players under total control. Cathro is far more relaxed and not as dominant. This person believed the players were taking advantage of this. This person also believed that Cathro would not last long.

 

Take from it what you will but I thought it was worth sharing.

 

 

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Doesn't come as a surprise to be honest. When Locke was in charge he tried to be one of the lads in his managerial approach. Neilson came in, increased the amount of training time and was very professional in his approach. It's hard to tell from what we as fans see but it's evident he isn't

commanding respect or control. I feel terrible for ever slagging Robbie as I would have him in a heartbeat over IC.

[Bazzas right boot]

Problem is they know this and don't rectify it. Stop gap signings rarely work in bulk.

There is no feeling of target, belonging or ability to relate to a situation.

Taking over somebody else's work without ever knowing that person or workplace.

Temporary workers rarely work with the dedication or unity of staff members, in isolation they can and do add quality and experience.

We may as well forget this season and hope a new unit can be bonded June

See my butcher thread.

 

The biggest problem is this, the gamble on the players on short term deals. Could have went either way, unfortunately it failed.

 

Hard to motivate temporary workers.

[Taffin]

I'm sick of them stating the bloody obvious. They need to do their talking on the pitch; often those in the press are some of the worst offenders as in this case.

 

Shut your mouths, show some heart and win a few games

[1971fozzy]

Do you honestly believe ANY player will stand up and say to the media the manager is crap? It would be like signing your own death warrant. You are deluded if you think Walker is willing to sacrifice his career in this manner.

100%

[Thomaso]

Cathro is not the problem here, as walker mentions.

 

 

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Cathro is a huge part of the problem.

 

Players heads can go down if things are going against them. THAT is when the Manager or Head Coach has to use his motivational skills to get their heads up and get them going - experienced Managers like Fergie and even JJ were experts at that.

 

Cathro has the personally of a goldfish with non existant motivational skills!!

[Rudy T]

All I hear about Cathro is he has good ideas and training is great. Problem is there's a lot more to managing than that.

 

It's fine when things are going well its not a difficult job, it's times like this when managers have to call on their experiences to try what they can to turn things around.

 

This is where Levien has to be helping him but at the end of the day players react to the manager and if he's not doing the right things on match day then it's not going to work. Cathro is undoubtedly a great coach I'm just not sure how long we can survive while he learns to be a manager.

[Spellczech]

I have tried to get this point over before and many don't read the post properly, so please do.

 

IF Levein is NOT interfering and is happy to sit and watch this crap, then why is he NOT interfering?

 

On the other hand:

 

IF Levein IS interfering, would that not make the current difficulties all the more explainable?

 

Either way Levein is the problem, Because he either shouldn't interfere, or he should and isn't.  ( depending on which scenario you want to follow,)

So basically you have it in for Levein? 

[Thomaso]

All I hear about Cathro is he has good ideas and training is great. Problem is there's a lot more to managing than that.

 

It's fine when things are going well its not a difficult job, it's times like this when managers have to call on their experiences to try what they can to turn things around.

 

This is where Levien has to be helping him but at the end of the day players react to the manager and if he's not doing the right things on match day then it's not going to work. Cathro is undoubtedly a great coach I'm just not sure how long we can survive while he learns to be a manager.

 

 

Cathro is what he is - a quiet, intelligent coach, working in the background on the training ground as part of an experienced Managers team.

 

To be a good Manager or Head Coach you need the motivational skills and personality to get the best our of your players on match day - Cathro is sadly lacking here.

[Thomaso]

So basically you have it in for Levein? 

 

 

Very many Hearts fans have it in for Levein simply because he is making an arse of it.

[Spellczech]

Doesn't come as a surprise to be honest. When Locke was in charge he tried to be one of the lads in his managerial approach. Neilson came in, increased the amount of training time and was very professional in his approach. It's hard to tell from what we as fans see but it's evident he isn't

commanding respect or control. I feel terrible for ever slagging Robbie as I would have him in a heartbeat over IC.

 Spectacular contradiction you did there...

[Seymour M Hersh]

Walker is one of the first to go down.

 

Sadly was my first thought to seeing the title of the thread.

[Spellczech]

Very many Hearts fans have it in for Levein simply because he is making an arse of it.

But this Levein-bashing didn't start with the Cathro appointment or even the poor signings since we got promoted.  Levein-bashing has been strong on here since Levein himself returned to the club. It appears to stem from him "abandoning" us before the Feyenoord game to try his luck in England and some even appear to back-date it to 1986 because he was too ill to get on the bus to Dens whilst others went when ill and lost the game regardless...It seems that to be a PHM you have to have a total disregard to career ambition outside of Hearts and they even expect this of players and managers...I say that's utterly stupid but hey-ho...

[Seymour M Hersh]

Callum Paterson was instrumental in the "heads not dropping" games. Absolutely crucial.

 

This team has noone like that.

 

Thing is CP could go awol and in the huff for large parts of games if he perceived unfair decisions going against him (whether they were or were not). So I'm not so sure I agree with you suggesting he was instrumental in rallying the troops.

[King prawn]

Thing is CP could go awol and in the huff for large parts of games if he perceived unfair decisions going against him (whether they were or were not). So I'm not so sure I agree with you suggesting he was instrumental in rallying the troops.

I think quite a few people forget this. Im sure there are a few match ratings threads about where people have penalised him for doing exactly what you've mentioned above.

[Jammy T]

Cathro is a huge part of the problem.

 

Players heads can go down if things are going against them. THAT is when the Manager or Head Coach has to use his motivational skills to get their heads up and get them going - experienced Managers like Fergie and even JJ were experts at that.

 

Cathro has the personally of a goldfish with non existant motivational skills!!

Being honest - whilst you are a bit OTT are Cathro's personality you have a point.

 

One of the reasons I said a few weeks ago that to give Cathro the best chance to take his philosophy forward that Levein should have an up front active role with first team until the end of the season. Mentor, take some pressure off him, strictly short term.

 

Won't be popular but actually one name you miss off the list of our managers that motivated players was Levein himself.

[Swanny17]

If the players genuinely think Cathro is up to the job then we have a serious issue on our hands.

[deejtee]

Cathro is a huge part of the problem.

 

Players heads can go down if things are going against them. THAT is when the Manager or Head Coach has to use his motivational skills to get their heads up and get them going - experienced Managers like Fergie and even JJ were experts at that.

 

Cathro has the personally of a goldfish with non existant motivational skills!!

I will try a raincoat on goldie and a wig on flipper when I get home. Sure the boys won't mind

[Thunderstruck]

I don't think that heads "dropped" until the third goal on Sunday. Up to then, they were competing well and getting a goal back would have -perhaps-made a difference.

 

This isn't any different to other teams. As recently as the start of February, this same team put 4 past Rangers by the hour mark. The fight visibly went out of Rangers at that point and Hearts were able to easily control the game from then on.

[deejtee]

I don't think that heads "dropped" until the third goal on Sunday. Up to then, they were competing well and getting a goal back would have -perhaps-made a difference.

 

This isn't any different to other teams. As recently as the start of February, this same team put 4 past Rangers by the hour mark. The fight visibly went out of Rangers at that point and Hearts were able to easily control the game from then on.

............and where is their manager now?

[Boab]

Its only a hard place to go if you think its a hard place to go, StJohnstone got beat by Hamiliton

on Saturday that shows how poor they are.

The team should be up for this and turn them over, a bit fight will do the job.

Hopefully a win for us.

C'mon,mate....the only reason Hamilton beat them is because they were down to nine men. Even then they made hard work of it.

 

We are in for a tough game up there, you can be sure of that....but....if we show a desire, we can win !

[Thunderstruck]

............and where is their manager now?

At the wrong end of a Boardroom coup.

[deejtee]

At the wrong end of a Boardroom coup.

Wrong end from his perspective granted.

[bringonthesevco]

Cathro is not the problem here, as walker mentions.

 

 

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When Cathro took over we were (just) above Aberdeen, he signs 9 new players and we're not 20 points behind .....

 

I'm not advocating a change, however, stating that he isn't the problem can't be completely true can it ???

[BobbyJenkins]

When Cathro took over we were (just) above Aberdeen, he signs 9 new players and we're not 20 points behind .....

 

I'm not advocating a change, however, stating that he isn't the problem can't be completely true can it ???

 

There are several issues which have resulted in this slide, to say its Cathro is mental to me, when you consider the context.

[deejtee]

 

When Cathro took over we were (just) above Aberdeen, he signs 9 new players and we're not 20 points behind .....

 

I'm not advocating a change, however, stating that he isn't the problem can't be completely true can it ???

 

There are several issues which have resulted in this slide, to say its Cathro is mental to me, when you consider the context.

 

Just as to absolve cathro from substantial blame would be equally mental surely???

[BobbyJenkins]

Just as to absolve cathro from substantial blame would be equally mental surely???

 

People wanting him out? THAT is mental imo.  I think the context i.e. new players and halfway through a season in conjunction with Patterson and Souttar and latterly Hughes are the main reasons for the latest 'crisis', not the appointment of Cathro.

 

Alot of people have had the knives out for him from the start and are desperate for him to fail and for some, Levein too. Dare I say some even want Budge to go. Mental.

[Lincon Premier]

So basically you have it in for Levein? 

I " have it in " for Levein because he has cost MY club a shed load of cash,points and dignity. 

He has presided over some of the worst signings I have ever seen, He has signed the worst Manager I have ever seen ( maybe a slight exaggeration ) and has dragged this club through some of the worst media periods in years.

The guy has issues and won't employ a manager that will talk back. He can stay on the board but for me the second he sticks his nose into anything football related ( manager, players, tactics ) he should go.

His ego is too big to see he is the problem and won't do the right thing by the club.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Just as to absolve cathro from substantial blame would be equally mental surely???

Not entirely to blame but ultimately responsible. Tough being in charge eh.

 

Every manager deserves at least a pre season to set his own plan. First round of games and League Cup crucial to gaining trust of all

[deejtee]

People wanting him out? THAT is mental imo.  I think the context i.e. new players and halfway through a season in conjunction with Patterson and Souttar and latterly Hughes are the main reasons for the latest 'crisis', not the appointment of Cathro.

 

Alot of people have had the knives out for him from the start and are desperate for him to fail and for some, Levein too. Dare I say some even want Budge to go. Mental.

I think very very few wanted him to fail. All fans surely want success. His appointment was high risk and was down to Levein and his plan. That and the poor recruitment are at Craig's door. He and to a substantially greater extent Ann Budge have a reserve of achievement to fall back on. Cathro has nothing substantial to fall back on so he has needed to convince the fans of positive signs that he can manage. So far he is not doing that for a lot of Hearts fans (which is important) or the media (much less important).

[JohnB]

Do you honestly believe ANY player will stand up and say to the media the manager is crap? It would be like signing your own death warrant. You are deluded if you think Walker is willing to sacrifice his career in this manner.

 

This - with knobs on.

[Spellczech]

I " have it in " for Levein because he has cost MY club a shed load of cash,points and dignity. 

He has presided over some of the worst signings I have ever seen, He has signed the worst Manager I have ever seen ( maybe a slight exaggeration ) and has dragged this club through some of the worst media periods in years.

The guy has issues and won't employ a manager that will talk back. He can stay on the board but for me the second he sticks his nose into anything football related ( manager, players, tactics ) he should go.

His ego is too big to see he is the problem and won't do the right thing by the club.

I have to ask - have you only been following Hearts for a couple of years? If not then the above is utter tosh.

[Boab]

I " have it in " for Levein because he has cost MY club a shed load of cash,points and dignity.

He has presided over some of the worst signings I have ever seen, He has signed the worst Manager I have ever seen ( maybe a slight exaggeration ) and has dragged this club through some of the worst media periods in years.

The guy has issues and won't employ a manager that will talk back. He can stay on the board but for me the second he sticks his nose into anything football related ( manager, players, tactics ) he should go.

His ego is too big to see he is the problem and won't do the right thing by the club.

 

Every Hearts manager we've had has cost us " a shed load of cash " by definition of not winning everything on offer.

 

Sorry, a load of garbage !

[Livvyjambo]

Walker was one player who put in effort early on ( tv camera syndrome) and as soon as we went 1 down ran for the hills .

[Nelly Terraces]

Our players & management aren't good enough. That includes mentally.

 

Case closed.

[i8hibsh]

Our players & management aren't good enough. That includes mentally.

 

Case closed.

 

Watch out Nelly, you will be called a Hibee.

[Nelly Terraces]

Watch out Nelly, you will be called a Hibee.

Indeed.

 

No doubt I have 'AN AGENDA!!1!'

[Sepp's Bladder]

Complains about heads going down and they need to correct it...

 

Then goes on to say that they've given up on 3rd because rangers are 10 ahead. Yes, rangers now have to be seen as clear favorites but there are 24 points left. Its that defeatist attitude thats the very problem!

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

It's too simplistic to just be heads going down. It also won't get better with more fight, dig, passion whatever. This team has looked shackled for two seasons now. There's so little creativity, so little pace and running with the ball, so little drive and pressuring the opposition, hardly ever a spark of something magic and unexpected. It's so noticeable it actually looks like those things are forbidden. Maybe we are overcoached and maybe the principles of play whatever they are are hindering us a lot of the time. Not even joking, I would be satisfied if all we saw between now and the end of the season was the players playing with a bit more freedom.

[Debut 4]

It's too simplistic to just be heads going down. It also won't get better with more fight, dig, passion whatever. This team has looked shackled for two seasons now. There's so little creativity, so little pace and running with the ball, so little drive and pressuring the opposition, hardly ever a spark of something magic and unexpected. It's so noticeable it actually looks like those things are forbidden. Maybe we are overcoached and maybe the principles of play whatever they are are hindering us a lot of the time. Not even joking, I would be satisfied if all we saw between now and the end of the season was the players playing with a bit more freedom.

tend to agree with this.

 

Going back to RNs time, I have a mate who's close with a Hearts youth coach. He told me around the time there was rumblings behind the scenes that it was football by numbers ....was the way he put it.