Mondays meet in lithuania

[peter snr]

I personnally don't have any problem at all with Federation people meeting with people at Hearts and then telling their members what was said at the meeting. Think the only annoying thing would be if it then did not get filtered to the rest of the support, perhaps via JKB or the EEN. Borthwick is quick enough to give his views when the EEN phone him up, so perhaps it would be good if he were to phone the EEN for a change?!

 

John Borthwick does not give his views he gives the views of the Federation.I think i am correct in saying that John has not spoken to the EEN for a while as it kept quoting him as The Fans Chief.The Federation of Hearts Supporters Club are just that,if they come out and say to all and sundry there will be an outcry saying they dont represent 'FANS' so it should be the club to come out with a statement,which i think they will.

[redm]

Instead of critising the federation for lack of information, you could look no further than the club you claim to support.

The federation members pay an annual fee to become members of that organisation.

You know doubt pay a considerable amount of money to HMFC and as such would like communication about what is going on.

Surely your gripe is with the club and not the Federation.

 

I'd say I have a gripe with each of them to be honest (and definitely more than one gripe with the club!) but given that the club is essentially a commercial operation, I fully expect them to want money from me. When it comes to the information issue, then yes absolutely...I think Vlad is playing a very unkind game when he asks supporters groups to withhold information from other fans. Do you really think he believes that 1500 people will keep this stuff to themselves? 'Course he doesn't. He's just seeing if they'll dance to his tune, and they seem to do so without a second thought.

 

But that's Vlad and I don't expect any different from him...Perhaps naively, I do expect more from my fellow fans because they're in the same boat as me. I certainly expect more from a group who offer themselves up as representatives - whether they're actually representing me or not.

[portobellojambo1]

you partly have a point, but as long as there are people who think of other fans as not worthy, /quote]

 

With all due respect Beverley this phrase "we are not worthy" was penned by certain posters on here NOT by any members of a club affiliated to the FHSC. This is NOT what the FHSC think of people who choose not to be members of a SC.

 

I am not a member of HMSA/HMST but would imagine none of their members think of non members of those orgainsation as not worthy. I recognise non members of these orgainsation in exactly the same terms as I recognise members, fans of HMFC.

 

What the three groups do have is memberships, fee paying memberships, and via those fees they often get personnel from Hearts along to their meetings, and discussions take place, and the information is then made available to the members in minuted format. That is how it should be, that is how constituted bodies function.

 

If Heart of Midlothian Football Club feel that information is there and should be made available to all fans the onus is on them to do it, via their own website.

[portobellojambo1]

John Borthwick does not give his views he gives the views of the Federation.I think i am correct in saying that John has not spoken to the EEN for a while as it kept quoting him as The Fans Chief.The Federation of Hearts Supporters Club are just that,if they come out and say to all and sundry there will be an outcry saying they dont represent 'FANS' so it should be the club to come out with a statement,which i think they will.

 

100% correct.

[broxburnjambo]

I'd say I have a gripe with each of them to be honest (and definitely more than one gripe with the club!) but given that the club is essentially a commercial operation, I fully expect them to want money from me. When it comes to the information issue, then yes absolutely...I think Vlad is playing a very unkind game when he asks supporters groups to withhold information from other fans. Do you really think he believes that 1500 people will keep this stuff to themselves? 'Course he doesn't. He's just seeing if they'll dance to his tune, and they seem to do so without a second thought.

 

But that's Vlad and I don't expect any different from him...Perhaps naively, I do expect more from my fellow fans because they're in the same boat as me. I certainly expect more from a group who offer themselves up as representatives - whether they're actually representing me or not.

 

Fluffy.

Being a member of a supporters club and as such that makes me a member of the Federation, i have never been told, to withhold information from Hearts suppporters and i believe that to be the case with every other member of the Federation.

The federation will always tell its membership first like any other fee paying organisation, what happens to that information after that should be up to the individual that has recieved that information.

From a personel point of view i will tell my friends that are Hearts supporters, but would never dream of publishing any information on an open forum like JKB.

Why should hobos, journolists, etc recieve this information.

Like i said, it up to Hearts to provide that information. If they wish to.

[Beverley]

PJ you know that my post wasn't aimed at you, nor was it aimed at the countless decent members of each and every supporters club.

 

it WAS aimed at the whole attitude coming from the likes of certain posters as you have quite rightly pointed out.

 

now, to be fair to myself, i don't know who is, and who isn't a member of which club, but when someone turns round and says "the only people worthy of going" then that smacks of elitism.

thats what gets up my nose.

[redm]

 

What the three groups do have is memberships, fee paying memberships, and via those fees they often get personnel from Hearts along to their meetings, and discussions take place, and the information is then made available to the members in minuted format. That is how it should be, that is how constituted bodies function.

 

If Heart of Midlothian Football Club feel that information is there and should be made available to all fans the onus is on them to do it, via their own website.

 

But this is the very problem PJ1, we know that isn't going to happen. The club won't tell us a thing. Would it not be more appropriate for the federation to question why they are being treated differently - or even just to question why they have been asked not to share the info? I can't imagine they're too delighted at being a pawn in whatever wee game Vlad's playing but they haven't tried to change it.

 

What really gets me is that its really a load of bollocks anyway. There's absolutely no chance that 1500 people are going to keep that stuff quiet....not a chance in hell. They'll tell friends, family etc. because that's pretty safe...the only thing that nobody will do is post it on a public forum because then they'd have to put their name to it! But still this charade goes on...it's just mental....and not in a good way.

[portobellojambo1]

PJ you know that my post wasn't aimed at you, nor was it aimed at the countless decent members of each and every supporters club.

 

it WAS aimed at the whole attitude coming from the likes of certain posters as you have quite rightly pointed out.

 

now, to be fair to myself, i don't know who is, and who isn't a member of which club, but when someone turns round and says "the only people worthy of going" then that smacks of elitism.

thats what gets up my nose.

 

 

My reply wasn't aimed at you directly either Bev.

 

I just get a bit p i s s e d off with the attitude of some on here. Posters on here complain because they do not get information, then pick on the relevant group that possibly has that information, and declare themselves not worthy of receiving, it is not a case that they are not worthy, it is because they are non members and the relevant group is working in accordance with its constitution. If they want to vent their anger on anyone they should vent it at the source of the information, not the recipients, and the source is Heart of Midlothian Football Club in many, if not all, instances.

[jamkb]

i think everybody should just calm down for the moment and wait and see what the secret police reveal. oops sorry ;)i mean the federation. But i will not be a happy bunny if they do know something and try to keep it secret. i doubt they would have any chance of keeping it secret somebody would let slip. Does anybody know who paid for there jolly to vlad land. so come on killie spill the beans:)

[portobellojambo1]

But this is the very problem PJ1, we know that isn't going to happen. The club won't tell us a thing.

 

Redm,

 

The federation represents its members, so shares information amongst its members.

 

You state above you believe the club will not tell you a thing.

 

Based on that, and coming back to the belief that goes about on here from some fans, who say they do not get information because "they are not worthy" who do you think it is that is treating them as not worthy, the FHSC or Heart of Midlothian Football Club.

 

Only a personal opinion but I do not believe the problem lies with the FHSC.

[redm]

Fluffy.

Being a member of a supporters club and as such that makes me a member of the Federation, i have never been told, to withhold information from Hearts suppporters and i believe that to be the case with every other member of the Federation.

The federation will always tell its membership first like any other fee paying organisation, what happens to that information after that should be up to the individual that has recieved that information.

From a personel point of view i will tell my friends that are Hearts supporters, but would never dream of publishing any information on an open forum like JKB.

Why should hobos, journolists, etc recieve this information.

Like i said, it up to Hearts to provide that information. If they wish to.

 

Yessssssss, but they don't provide it do they? I have no desire for grubby journos to get their paws on anything they shouldn't, but if its a choice between trying to censor the media (pointless) or keeping the majority of fans in the dark about important issues...I don't think there's any choice there. Maybe you do...I don't know....but I'd really rather not believe that federation members think they're entitled to the 'perk' because they pay their subs and the majority of the fans don't. Because that's essentially what it comes down to. There might be 1500 members but how many do you actually get at meetings? I'm assuming it's nowhere near that many?

 

The bottom line for me is...do the federation members really think it's acceptable for them to receive information that other fans don't? If so, I'd be interested to know why. If not, I'd like to know why they don't do anything about it. That's all really.

 

On a completely different note, what the heck was the fluffy thing all about?

[broxburnjambo]

But this is the very problem PJ1, we know that isn't going to happen. The club won't tell us a thing. Would it not be more appropriate for the federation to question why they are being treated differently - or even just to question why they have been asked not to share the info? I can't imagine they're too delighted at being a pawn in whatever wee game Vlad's playing but they haven't tried to change it.

 

What really gets me is that its really a load of bollocks anyway. There's absolutely no chance that 1500 people are going to keep that stuff quiet....not a chance in hell. They'll tell friends, family etc. because that's pretty safe...the only thing that nobody will do is post it on a public forum because then they'd have to put their name to it! But still this charade goes on...it's just mental....and not in a good way.

 

I believe this is one of the questions the Federation will hopefully be asking, when in Lithuania. (communication). By that, i do not mean the federation but from the club themselves.

The last part of your post i suppose sums things up. You have blamed the federation, the club themselves and now you want to blame the members of JKB because they dont want to post something they have heard about at a federation meeting because their user name will be displayed.

Everyone is unhappy, including the 4 organised supporters groups, which is why we as Hearts supporters are aggrieved at the lack of communication.

We all want one thing, a successful Team on the park.

[mitch41]

isn't there a strong case of 'DEVIDE AND CONQUER' on the part of romanov.

 

if only the man would tell us what the hell he's playing at.

 

romanov treats the fans like dirt. you can read him like a book, like the promises he and his puppets come out with just before the season tickets go on sale. the world cup stars and the quality manager he's going to get us, AYE RIGHT !. they can talk and talk for ever with who ever they like it doesn't matter. what matters is what we all witness every week out on that pitch.

 

from now on i'll only believe it when i see it, as i've had enough of romanov the lier.

[broxburnjambo]

Yessssssss, but they don't provide it do they? I have no desire for grubby journos to get their paws on anything they shouldn't, but if its a choice between trying to censor the media (pointless) or keeping the majority of fans in the dark about important issues...I don't think there's any choice there. Maybe you do...I don't know....but I'd really rather not believe that federation members think they're entitled to the 'perk' because they pay their subs and the majority of the fans don't. Because that's essentially what it comes down to. There might be 1500 members but how many do you actually get at meetings? I'm assuming it's nowhere near that many?

 

The bottom line for me is...do the federation members really think it's acceptable for them to receive information that other fans don't? If so, I'd be interested to know why. If not, I'd like to know why they don't do anything about it. That's all really.

 

On a completely different note, what the heck was the fluffy thing all about?

 

Sorry about the fluffy thing, orginally quoted a post he had made.

Federation members do not feel it unacceptable to recieve information that non members do, but i would expect they would be aggrieved if non members recieved that information before them. Like any other fee paying organisation.

[Cade]

Personally have little time for the Fed.

 

Not representative of the majority of fans IMHO.

 

A private club for the chosen few who use it to elevate themselves to a supposed position of influence and handy for a few invites/freebies.

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

It's like a secret cabal of Masons.

[redm]

Redm,

 

The federation represents its members, so shares information amongst its members.

 

You state above you believe the club will not tell you a thing.

 

Based on that, and coming back to the belief that goes about on here from some fans, who say they do not get information because "they are not worthy" who do you think it is that is treating them as not worthy, the FHSC or Heart of Midlothian Football Club.

 

Only a personal opinion but I do not believe the problem lies with the FHSC.

 

 

Argh, I don't think I'm getting my point across as well as I'd like.

 

I'm not disputing anything that you're saying PJ. It's not the federation's fault that that the club is dangling the infocarrot in front of its nose...I agree. I said as much a few posts back I think.

 

I just find the idea that the federation doesn't NEED to question any of this stuff a little unpleasant, that's all. Yes, the federation is there only to represent its members, it has no responsibility for the fans that are not part of its group....but it would surely be more in keeping with the ethos of these groups if it did consider the greater good? Especially when they're really the only people in a position to do so?

[redm]

I believe this is one of the questions the Federation will hopefully be asking, when in Lithuania. (communication). By that, i do not mean the federation but from the club themselves.

The last part of your post i suppose sums things up. You have blamed the federation, the club themselves and now you want to blame the members of JKB because they dont want to post something they have heard about at a federation meeting because their user name will be displayed.

Everyone is unhappy, including the 4 organised supporters groups, which is why we as Hearts supporters are aggrieved at the lack of communication.

We all want one thing, a successful Team on the park.

 

Good lord, I'm definitely not blaming the members of JKB. We all know what a snakepit this place can be at times and when people are in a crap mood it's even worse. I was merely trying to illustrate the absurdity of the whole argument, because Vlad asks the federation to keep it quiet and they agree to do that...then 1500 emails are sent out to people who, by and large, will not keep it particularly quiet at all. It's all just posturing and it's difficult to know who's kidding who....

 

I sincerely hope that they do bring this subject up, I'd be over the moon to hear that they made some sort of effort to rectify the situation because this issue is unpleasant for the fans...and clearly a bit divisive too. I'm not moaning about this for the sake of it, I usually err on the side of optimism to the point of lunacy...but I just feel very strongly about the issue. So if anything I said seemed harsh, I hope you fed people know it's not personal.

 

BUT...one thing I'd definitely like to know...if you don't mind sharing...How many members do you generally get at your meetings?

[Vlad_Knows_Best]

Fan's Forum Website.

 

http://www.freewebs.com/hmfcfansforum/index.htm

[portobellojambo1]

Argh, I don't think I'm getting my point across as well as I'd like.

 

I'm not disputing anything that you're saying PJ. It's not the federation's fault that that the club is dangling the infocarrot in front of its nose...I agree. I said as much a few posts back I think.

 

I just find the idea that the federation doesn't NEED to question any of this stuff a little unpleasant, that's all. Yes, the federation is there only to represent its members, it has no responsibility for the fans that are not part of its group....but it would surely be more in keeping with the ethos of these groups if it did consider the greater good? Especially when they're really the only people in a position to do so?

 

Right you are asking me do I think it is wrong that Heart of Midlothian Football Club does not share information with all its fans, the basic answer to that would have to be yes of course, but there again I would say it is up to all fans to try and obtain information they would like, as the federation does.

 

Is it the job of the federation to find out why the club will not release information to all fans, in all honesty I am not sure it is, but if I have read broxburnjambo's post above correctly it appears it may be something we do actually intend asking. I actually believe it is HMFC's responsibility to tell before someone has to ask.

 

And for all fans a vehicle does exist at the moment to get at information, it is called the Fans Forum. I do not know what your feelings are on the Fans Forum, but the Fans Forum can only operate on the information it receives from fans, and is only as good as the input it receives from the fans. It is a membership free organisation which interacts with the club on behalf of all fans, however, having been a member of the Fans Forum (FF) committee for the last 12 months I can honestly say the fans do not make proper use of the FF, in fact some talk about it quite apathetically.

[Craig Young]

The Federation have done a lot for Hearts and Hearts fans for many many years. We joined as SQBBL in 1979. Early on it was the only way of securing priceless cup tickets.

 

The ex-players that we see at half time are paid for by the Federation because Hearts wouldn't do it.

 

Way I see it, the committee of the Federation needs replaced by people younger with different ideas. Same faces at the top for too long.

 

Talking about information, John Borthwick allowed me to print anything I wanted in NO IDLE TALK as long as I didn't reveal the outcome of cetain votes before relevant parties had been informed.

 

These guys work hard, and if they get a freebie I have no beef with that.

 

Federation = good guys but a bit of a toothless tiger

[Guest JamboRobbo]

For what it is worth, the FHSC are the biggest organised body representing Hearts fans

 

representing a small minority of Hearts fans.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Fluffy.

You have hit it on the head.

Its up to the Federation to tell its membership.

Its up to Hearts to tell its supporters. By that i do not mean the members of the Federation, but all Hearts supporters.

The Federation have been asked to Lithuania to ask questions on behalf of Hearts supporters. Surely then its Hearts responsiblity to publish these questions and answers. Not ther federations.

 

Spot on. The answers should be provided to all Hearts fans, by Hearts, if no-one else is willing to do it.

[goader]

Nice to see you are still alive and well

[goader]

The Federation have done a lot for Hearts and Hearts fans for many many years. We joined as SQBBL in 1979. Early on it was the only way of securing priceless cup tickets.

 

The ex-players that we see at half time are paid for by the Federation because Hearts wouldn't do it.

 

Way I see it, the committee of the Federation needs replaced by people younger with different ideas. Same faces at the top for too long.

 

Talking about information, John Borthwick allowed me to print anything I wanted in NO IDLE TALK as long as I didn't reveal the outcome of cetain votes before relevant parties had been informed.

 

These guys work hard, and if they get a freebie I have no beef with that.

 

Federation = good guys but a bit of a toothless tiger

 

Nice to see you are still alive and well

[Ben Dover]

You have to bear in mind that the FHSC was set up long before t'internet and the only way you could probably get close to the inner workings of the club was by getting off your erse, and going along to the meetings. I don't know what the it's prescribed aims were when it was set up but The FHSC has merely kept on doing what it has always done, work on behalf of it's members and report back to them as tasked !

It is one of the few bodies that has any credibility in the eyes of the club ( no disrespect to the HOMST and ST ) and can you blame then for PERHAPS keeping other 'interested' groups at arms length when you get such absolute sh*te as THAT infamous letter being sent, ALLEGEDLY ON OUR BEHALF, to the guy who owns the club

Kickback could of course put in a request to join the Fed and provided there are no objections from the current member clubs, and TBH I think there might well be ! , and that subs are paid and a secretary and treasurer can be nominated to attend the monthly meetings ...........you're in !

[redm]

Right you are asking me do I think it is wrong that Heart of Midlothian Football Club does not share information with all its fans, the basic answer to that would have to be yes of course, but there again I would say it is up to all fans to try and obtain information they would like, as the federation does.

 

Is it the job of the federation to find out why the club will not release information to all fans, in all honesty I am not sure it is, but if I have read broxburnjambo's post above correctly it appears it may be something we do actually intend asking. I actually believe it is HMFC's responsibility to tell before someone has to ask.

 

And for all fans a vehicle does exist at the moment to get at information, it is called the Fans Forum. I do not know what your feelings are on the Fans Forum, but the Fans Forum can only operate on the information it receives from fans, and is only as good as the input it receives from the fans. It is a membership free organisation which interacts with the club on behalf of all fans, however, having been a member of the Fans Forum (FF) committee for the last 12 months I can honestly say the fans do not make proper use of the FF, in fact some talk about it quite apathetically.

 

 

Agree with pretty much everything you said there...apart from one thing. I don't think the supporters should have to set up formal associations in order to facilitate communication with the club. As we established, the club ARE to blame (well, Vlad is anyway) for the current feeling amongst fans that they're being ignored and left in the dark about everything...they should be doing a much, much better job than they are in that area. I know that David Southern is always happy to talk to fans and does his utmost to help where he can, but like most others at Tynie...I think we know his hands are pretty much tied in that respect. But the point is that not all fans can be (or are willing to be) members of supporter groups and they shouldn't be penalised for that. The club needs to talk to all the fans, not just wee groups here and there. Anything less is just woefully unprofessional for starters.

 

As for the Fans Forum, that IS a shame. But I wonder how many people are aware that it exists, never mind what it does? I'd hazard a guess that awareness is far lower than it should be and again, that's something the club should be addressing...because it's clearly not for the lack of trying on the part of those who run it. It's a great idea and it should have the full backing of the club behind it, in my opinion anyway...Maybe it just needs some heavy duty marketing and promotion.

 

[davemclaren]

You have to bear in mind that the FHSC was set up long before t'internet and the only way you could probably get close to the inner workings of the club was by getting off your erse, and going along to the meetings. I don't know what the it's prescribed aims were when it was set up but The FHSC has merely kept on doing what it has always done, work on behalf of it's members and report back to them as tasked !

It is one of the few bodies that has any credibility in the eyes of the club ( no disrespect to the HOMST and ST ) and can you blame then for PERHAPS keeping other 'interested' groups at arms length when you get such absolute sh*te as THAT infamous letter being sent, ALLEGEDLY ON OUR BEHALF, to the guy who owns the club

Kickback could of course put in a request to join the Fed and provided there are no objections from the current member clubs, and TBH I think there might well be ! , and that subs are paid and a secretary and treasurer can be nominated to attend the monthly meetings ...........you're in !

 

Many members on here are members of the FHSC, HMSA and HMST already and have access to what goes on at events, meetings and dinners . Whether they feel they want to post certain things is their personal decision but I really don't think there is much that doesn't come out on here anyway.

 

 

Methinks you doth protest too much.

[redm]

You have to bear in mind that the FHSC was set up long before t'internet and the only way you could probably get close to the inner workings of the club was by getting off your erse, and going along to the meetings. I don't know what the it's prescribed aims were when it was set up but The FHSC has merely kept on doing what it has always done, work on behalf of it's members and report back to them as tasked !

It is one of the few bodies that has any credibility in the eyes of the club ( no disrespect to the HOMST and ST ) and can you blame then for PERHAPS keeping other 'interested' groups at arms length when you get such absolute sh*te as THAT infamous letter being sent, ALLEGEDLY ON OUR BEHALF, to the guy who owns the club

Kickback could of course put in a request to join the Fed and provided there are no objections from the current member clubs, and TBH I think there might well be ! , and that subs are paid and a secretary and treasurer can be nominated to attend the monthly meetings ...........you're in !

 

Like everything else, even the Federation must consider evolving to meet the needs of the modern football fan.

 

I'm probably barred for life now but why do you think member groups might object to JKB being recognised as a supporters club? We're already well ahead with the paperwork, everything is minuted....and attendance is pretty good at the 24hr daily meetings.

 

Seriously though, why do you think theymight object?

[egor]

it all sounds a bit "secret squirrel" and pompous

 

it does leave a great many in the dark

 

how many fans are members of supporters clubs?

 

i guess that would be easy to calculate given subscriptions etc

 

it would be an interesting statistic to see how many know "stuff" or are legitimately entitled to know stuff and pitch that against the total amount of jamtarts, which would have to be a guesstimate at best

 

sounds fascinating

 

I always get a bit concerned when you read about "delegations" and "federations", i don't like it one bit

 

i hate communication like this its a bit "select" and alienating for the common garden jambo who isn't affiliated to the federation via membership of a supporters club

 

dinnae trust it...

[frankblack]

representing a small minority of Hearts fans.

 

They are the largest organised Hearts supporters body by some distance.

 

As I have said a few times on this thread, if anyone else wants to organise a bigger supporters group, then they are welcome to. The problem is that people just bitch about the Federation rather than doing something for themselves.

 

The Federation is not the right target to aim abuse at for communications problems, it is HMFC.

 

From what I was told it has taken a lot of negotiations between the Federation and Hearts to mend the bridges burnt by the infamous letter by the Supporters Trust. That is why they are there - they spent the time and effort to do something about it for the good of all of us.

 

After the letter from the Supporters Trust, Romanov fell out big style with all the supporters organisations because the letter implied they all were party to it.

[Mysterion]

RM - i'm struggling to see what the problem is.

 

the feds will take the feedback from various supporters clubs and they will take opinions from other resources (eg. kickback, perception in the media), they'll feed it into whatever meetings they have and discuss things. even with easier access into the "inner circle" as you hint at, it's never going to change. it's just a feedback/PR thing for the club.

 

that's their purpose and they will get v.little detail in return on the real state of affairs. any information of real value will be issued via the press officer/website n that.

 

 

chill out doll - nae idea why you are writing half a novel in each post on what's really nothing major. i'll see you at the game on sat and talk you down fae the top of yer soapbox!

 

 

oh and one last thing - if you are you starting up yer own supporters club are you getting the remnants of the baboon platoon

[Only a Game]

redm

 

I wouldnt be interested in joining a kickback branch of the Hearts Supporters Clubs affiliated to the federation.

 

I dont think there is any will on behalf of kickback members to have kickback affiliated to the club in any way, and I can understand and agree why that is.

 

What I would be interested in is forming/joining/assisting with the set up of a Hearts Supporters Season Ticket Holders Association. Funded from voluntary subscriptions, perhaps subsidised by the club itself in terms of meeting facilities etc etc, on a one man one vote basis with affiliation to the club for as long as they remain or become transparently open and honest, ties within the club, contacts within the club and a bit of clout with the club.

 

Needs a lot of work and a bit of expertise and a lot of time to set up but I'm in if you are and we can get enough initial help ?

 

Also open to ideas/advice from anyone else on the format of the Association.

[redm]

Wah! Scott & OAG - I wasn't meaning to suggest that I was going to try and start up a KB club of any description, although I can see why it might have seemed like I was heading down that road. I was (and still am) just curious about how a supporters club is defined because I reckon that theoretically, KB has every right to representation. If it wants it, of course.

 

OAG, your idea is much more in line what people have been looking for and by all means...if something like that could happen, I'd be more than happy to pitch in. I think it's a great idea and it's the most obvious way to get effective communication going between the club and the bulk of the supporters. But I think it would face a few problems, and simply because there are too many groups as it is. I think the supporters might go for it, but I'm not sure that the club would immediately be receptive to the idea of another formal, representative body.

[Only a Game]

Wah! Scott & OAG - I wasn't meaning to suggest that I was going to try and start up a KB club of any description, although I can see why it might have seemed like I was heading down that road. I was (and still am) just curious about how a supporters club is defined because I reckon that theoretically, KB has every right to representation. If it wants it, of course.

 

OAG, your idea is much more in line what people have been looking for and by all means...if something like that could happen, I'd be more than happy to pitch in. I think it's a great idea and it's the most obvious way to get effective communication going between the club and the bulk of the supporters. But I think it would face a few problems, and simply because there are too many groups as it is. I think the supporters might go for it, but I'm not sure that the club would immediately be receptive to the idea of another formal, representative body.

 

One of the first aims would be to attract so many members that the STA gets recognition as being the biggest and most influential and all encompassing of the fans groups, encouraging the other minority groups (and thats what they would become ideally) to pitch in under the one banner. For example there would be members from each of the other groups elected on to the commitee to serve their specific groups interests.

 

I'm just floating an idea to see where it goes here.

 

Might try a poll later and see how that goes.

[Chuck Berry]

So, any news????? :-)

[Coco]

So, any news????? :-)

 

What could the infamous 'information' be that we so want to hear?

 

That Romanov is still doing a gottle o geer act on Frail?

That they have applied for planning permission?

That the intention is to improve the squad, in part by bringing over Lithuania's best players?

That the pie stands will get more people serving so that more than 2 people can get served at 1 time?

That Ivaskevicius is 'one to watch'?

 

Or what?

[Cliffundo]

only thing left to tell us really... is that they will appoint sombody on Monday? then again if we beat hibs they may not!

[broxburnjambo]

One of the first aims would be to attract so many members that the STA gets recognition as being the biggest and most influential and all encompassing of the fans groups, encouraging the other minority groups (and thats what they would become ideally) to pitch in under the one banner. For example there would be members from each of the other groups elected on to the commitee to serve their specific groups interests.

 

I'm just floating an idea to see where it goes here.

 

Might try a poll later and see how that goes.

 

Has your idea been pinched from the Fans Forum. This is exactly why they were set up, with members of the other organisations sitting on their committee.

The fans forum, is open all Hearts suppporters, that includeds season ticket holders and members of JKB.

Unfortunalty the Fans forum has due to a lack of support from fans, not taken off as much as it would have liked. Who is to blame for this, yes the supporters. Numerous people on here want to do this and want to do that, but when it comes to attending meetings, they fail to attend.

Your plan is open to failure, if you believe the that the STA can attract enough support, never mind attend monthly meetings.

If a body that does have some communication with Hearts via the G10, cant raise enough support, what chance has your plans.

[bigmeg]

Seriously though guys...is there ANY news on the meeting that happened.

[kay_louises]

I have scoured the internet and seen nowt I am afraid!

[Carl Spackler]

What would this group be called? The Peoples front of JKB or the JKB Peoples front?

 

I haven't read back to see where this notion came from but JKB is a discussion board not a supporters group with any form of constitution. There's Hibees on here FFS.

[redm]

Has your idea been pinched from the Fans Forum. This is exactly why they were set up, with members of the other organisations sitting on their committee.

The fans forum, is open all Hearts suppporters, that includeds season ticket holders and members of JKB.

Unfortunalty the Fans forum has due to a lack of support from fans, not taken off as much as it would have liked. Who is to blame for this, yes the supporters. Numerous people on here want to do this and want to do that, but when it comes to attending meetings, they fail to attend.

Your plan is open to failure, if you believe the that the STA can attract enough support, never mind attend monthly meetings.

If a body that does have some communication with Hearts via the G10, cant raise enough support, what chance has your plans.

 

 

Well, you might not like the idea very much but one of the FF people popped in earlier on and said that they were more than happy to look at new ideas like this. Quite right too...if something doesn't work so well, you change things and try it again. There are many many ways to do this stuff, its not ALL dictated by tradition and rulebooks y'know...there's nothing wrong with trying something a bit different.

[redm]

What would this group be called? The Peoples front of JKB or the JKB Peoples front?

 

I haven't read back to see where this notion came from but JKB is a discussion board not a supporters group with any form of constitution. There's Hibees on here FFS.

 

Nothing to do with KB...that was purely theoretical chitchat.

 

It's season ticket holders, primarily.

[Dougie Masterton]

I got told about the meeting the other day by a member of the FHSC.

 

Basically this is our last chance to cut the ice with Romanov, which was created by the jockeys from the supporters trust that sent a rank amateurish open letter slating Romanov and claiming to represent all the other associations and Hearts fans. That was the biggest PR disaster in Hearts history and made us as supporters look like idiots, and the anti-Hearts media loved it.

 

If they had consulted the other organisations they would have known that they didn't have the concensus to issue that letter.

 

After that time all communication ceased between Romanov and the Hearts fans, and our club has been going down the pan.

 

For what it is worth, the FHSC are the biggest organised body representing Hearts fans, who give their members a vote on all issues. The other supporters groups have no contact or influence at Hearts anymore. Kickback, like other forums is not an organised means of managing issues and events - it just gives fans an outlet to voice their opinions (which differ considerably).

 

I wish the Federation all the best in their efforts to resolve our differences with the board and get an active dialog going with the fans.

 

That statement is utter pi$h. That letter came from certain members of the Trust board, and it didn't involve any other organisation. Not all on the Trust board agreed with the letter, and made their feelings known at the time. My own views were published on JKB at the time as a matter of record.

 

As an aside, the stick that John and Stevie are getting on this board is absolutely unbelievable. I know these guys and both will put the best interest of the club first. I would assume that there will be a statement from the club regarding any talks that took place rather than a statement from the two individuals. Then again, i've been wrong in the past.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Continued from the old Kickback.

 

so basicaly the Federation Of Hearts Supporters keep all the info within their own little circle, then will pass on what they deem to be acceptable to the rest of us....if they even choose to do that?

 

JKB should be privy to the goings on as a large amount of fans visit this board.

 

where else would you find so many jambos aprt from match day? nowhere.

 

if anyone knows what the outcome of the meet was...feel free to update

 

JKB is a fans forum and not an organised fan group. Heck we know all sorts of non Hearts fans post so how could you justify hobos being included as an "official" Hearts fan group?

[broxburnjambo]

Well, you might not like the idea very much but one of the FF people popped in earlier on and said that they were more than happy to look at new ideas like this. Quite right too...if something doesn't work so well, you change things and try it again. There are many many ways to do this stuff, its not ALL dictated by tradition and rulebooks y'know...there's nothing wrong with trying something a bit different.

 

Where have i stated, that i am against the idea. I have said that the plan is open to failure, before it even gets of the ground. Thats fact, unless, many keyboard wizards get of their backside and do something about it, you will have no members for your so called majority group.

Lets put this into prespective, the save our Hearts campaign had difficullty attracting the everyday season ticket holder to join its ranks, this when the club was in grave danger.

You are now asking those same suppporters to join in a majority supporters group, so that they can get information from the club.

looking at this thread and others on the old board, many people on here want some sort of change within the supporters organisations. But many are also in support of what the organisations are trying to achieve.

[givememychoice]

so the fans forum represents the fans, the fhsc represent others....

 

etc etc

 

I have never been invited/offered membership of any (including the FF)

 

It all seems so political. Each party trying to gain its power. Its football for feck sake.

 

Maybe John Borthwick is a sound guy who doesnt try and claim more power than he has, HOWEVER, when the news etc imply he represents all the fans, he makes no rebuttal.

 

Others have said, just pay the 10 or 20 pounds to join one. Why?

democracy? to the highest bidder?

 

is the FF free? its website is distinctly ambiguous.

 

Are these groups keen to get the support of the supporters? If so, why do you only really hear about them in here, not at the match?

 

If these people do no represent the fans, why were they invited over to lithuania?

[CornhillHearts]

U tell em Dougie I have been getting abuse for much the same thing; as if I am bovvered.

[scott herbertson]

For goodness sake!

 

I have met John Borthwick once, in the early days when some people were thinking of starting a Trust. He came over as a very reasonable guy - far from an egotist.

 

He has been at pains NOT to make any claims to be representing anyone other than the people who have paid their membership fees for supporters clubs and have elected him.

 

He has been invited over,as a representative of a large fans grouping (probably the largest in existence), presumably because Romanov wants to talk to somebody who can speak for some of the fans.

 

 

I can't believe people are slagging him off for agreeing to go/ not reporting back to all hearts fans (in which case there would have been a loud chorus of people griping and moaning that "he doesn't represent me/ my views").

 

What should he have done? refused? How would that have helped the situation we are in? Why are people slagging him off before he has even got back from the meeting?

 

I am a member of London Hearts Supporters Club - pretty sure we aren't one of the Federation because we don't run a regular trip. However I have no problem whatsoever with John and his colleague going to meet Romanov, trying to put over the viewpoints he has gathered from the member clubs and trying to influence Romanov to get good management in and respond to some of our other concerns.

 

 

He will then presumably report back to his members as he should then the rest of us can wait until we hear it from members of the federation.

 

 

I can't see the problem with any of that either from Romanov or the Federation, and I welcome the fact that there is a dialogue going on between the Club's owners and the Club's fans..

 

rant over

[eddie fenwick]

does anyone here slagging off john borthwick actually know the man?