Mondays meet in lithuania

[Cliffundo]

Continued from the old Kickback.

 

so basicaly the Federation Of Hearts Supporters keep all the info within their own little circle, then will pass on what they deem to be acceptable to the rest of us....if they even choose to do that?

 

JKB should be privy to the goings on as a large amount of fans visit this board.

 

where else would you find so many jambos aprt from match day? nowhere.

 

if anyone knows what the outcome of the meet was...feel free to update

[ToadKiller Dog]

Are they back yet?

surely they have a duty to inform like it or not the group they represent first ,if its anything worthwhile it will leak out anyways.

[boabyarsebiscuit]

How about everybody just calms down 'til they get back and we hopefully find out what's been going on?

[redm]

I hope they bring that thread over cos I'm still waiting to find out how exactly the federation define a supporters club...nobody has given me an answer on that yet...

 

[jambos are go!]

Not back till Wednesday I understand. Can't see any feedback till Thursday.

[munki boy]

Can't see any news appearing much before Saturday lads

They will have to report to the Federation first I would imagine

Mind you if your not in the "Gang" then we might hear nowt!!!!

[Flogel98]

Personally have little time for the Fed.

 

Not representative of the majority of fans IMHO.

 

A private club for the chosen few who use it to elevate themselves to a supposed position of influence and handy for a few invites/freebies.

[munki boy]

Personally have little time for the Fed.

 

Not representative of the majority of fans IMHO.

 

A private club for the chosen few who use it to elevate themselves to a supposed position of influence and handy for a few invites/freebies.

 

Hear Hear and so say all of us!!!!!

[redm]

It's like Groundhog Day in here....

[Jammy T]

OK, what will happen is this.

 

The reps will be positive. They will have been told somethings which are confidential (probably something to do with the stadium and possibly a short list of managers they will be told we are looking at - whether we are or not will be a moot point), this will have bought their trust that Vlad thinks they are important. They will then be provided with a summary of where things are going which is basically positive

 

They will told not to worry about the debt. They will be told we are looking far and wide for a manager befitting a club like Hearts. They will be told our youth initiatives remain the future (much like Garlic Bread is).

 

Thinking that they are in Vlad's trust they will believe all is well and will signal this by declaring "things are going in the right direction"

 

We wont be told a lot, if any detail. We'll all fall out about it. "Real" fans will fight glory hunters. Vladsheep - both of them still left - will fight everyone else.

 

Not much will change

 

But we WILL gub the Hobos on Saturday and people will think we're back on the straight and narrow.

 

Then we'll be put out both cups before the month end.....

[sandylejambo]

i think some people are prepaired to shoot the messenger even before he gets here, why is evrey-one so confident the people who are over there can be bought or tricked by vlad, some of these guys can even tie their own laces, they have heard it all before too you know

[Cliffundo]

Aye, it all sounds like good fun!

 

I just want to know what is really happeneing.

[colinzeal]

Continued from the old Kickback.

 

so basicaly the Federation Of Hearts Supporters keep all the info within their own little circle, then will pass on what they deem to be acceptable to the rest of us....if they even choose to do that?

 

JKB should be privy to the goings on as a large amount of fans visit this board.

 

where else would you find so many jambos aprt from match day? nowhere.

 

if anyone knows what the outcome of the meet was...feel free to update

 

 

Yep and according into Cornhill Jambo the people who have gone over are the only two worthy of going over!!

[frankblack]

I got told about the meeting the other day by a member of the FHSC.

 

Basically this is our last chance to cut the ice with Romanov, which was created by the jockeys from the supporters trust that sent a rank amateurish open letter slating Romanov and claiming to represent all the other associations and Hearts fans. That was the biggest PR disaster in Hearts history and made us as supporters look like idiots, and the anti-Hearts media loved it.

 

If they had consulted the other organisations they would have known that they didn't have the concensus to issue that letter.

 

After that time all communication ceased between Romanov and the Hearts fans, and our club has been going down the pan.

 

For what it is worth, the FHSC are the biggest organised body representing Hearts fans, who give their members a vote on all issues. The other supporters groups have no contact or influence at Hearts anymore. Kickback, like other forums is not an organised means of managing issues and events - it just gives fans an outlet to voice their opinions (which differ considerably).

 

I wish the Federation all the best in their efforts to resolve our differences with the board and get an active dialog going with the fans.

[boabyarsebiscuit]

Personally have little time for the Fed.

 

Not representative of the majority of fans IMHO.

 

A private club for the chosen few who use it to elevate themselves to a supposed position of influence and handy for a few invites/freebies.

The Fed represent their members, the Federation of Hearts Supporters Clubs.

 

Why the antipathy towards the Fed?

 

John Borthwick seems a good guy (I don't know him personally, and I am not a member of a Fed affiliated supporters club myself before anyone asks)

[Blizzard]

Do they have internet access in Lithuania?

 

Surely they could have logged on and given a few details to the loyal jambos.

[DETTY29]

Personally have little time for the Fed.

 

Not representative of the majority of fans IMHO.

 

A private club for the chosen few who use it to elevate themselves to a supposed position of influence and handy for a few invites/freebies.

Simple question,

 

Which Group is representative of the fans then -

 

Shareholders Association?

Fans Forum?

Supporters Trust?

 

Each and everyone that is criticised by the majority group.

 

It's called the

 

'I'm not a member of any Group, but I have my own opinion Group. And I want my opinion to be heard first, and loudest and actioned ahead anyone else's. I'm not actually prepared to do anything productive or give up any of my time'

 

 

 

 

Seems to sum up the majority.

[hearts @ heart]

I got told about the meeting the other day by a member of the FHSC.

 

Basically this is our last chance to cut the ice with Romanov, which was created by the jockeys from the supporters trust that sent a rank amateurish open letter slating Romanov and claiming to represent all the other associations and Hearts fans. That was the biggest PR disaster in Hearts history and made us as supporters look like idiots, and the anti-Hearts media loved it.

 

If they had consulted the other organisations they would have known that they didn't have the concensus to issue that letter.

 

After that time all communication ceased between Romanov and the Hearts fans, and our club has been going down the pan.

 

For what it is worth, the FHSC are the biggest organised body representing Hearts fans, who give their members a vote on all issues. The other supporters groups have no contact or influence at Hearts anymore. Kickback, like other forums is not an organised means of managing issues and events - it just gives fans an outlet to voice their opinions (which differ considerably).

 

I wish the Federation all the best in their efforts to resolve our differences with the board and get an active dialog going with the fans.

 

good post.

[Flogel98]

The Fed represent their members, the Federation of Hearts Supporters Clubs.

 

Why the antipathy towards the Fed?

 

John Borthwick seems a good guy (I don't know him personally, and I am not a member of a Fed affiliated supporters club myself before anyone asks)

 

As I said Boaby, only my opinion but I seem to remember several instances where they were quoted as being the fans rep and as you correctly say, they only represent their own members.

 

Unless anyone wants to correct me, I believe that to be around 2500 to 3000 people.

 

Based on 13500 season tickets, thats a small amount relatively speaking.

 

I am not a member of any particular fans group either. Probably because I think they may all have an agenda.

 

Did speak to one of the guys involved in the Fans Forum a while back and he told me that the club offer corporate style freebies to certain supporters groups and that the Fans Forum never take the offer up (unlike the others) as they don't want to be seen to be beholding/bought/on the pay roll of/etc the club. Their view was that they should stay completely independent.

 

I'm maybe not explaining this as articulately as it was put to me so if anyone from the fans forum would care to embelish this, please feel free.

 

Did however think there was a certain honesty about their stance with no hidden agenda.

[redm]

I got told about the meeting the other day by a member of the FHSC.

 

Basically this is our last chance to cut the ice with Romanov, which was created by the jockeys from the supporters trust that sent a rank amateurish open letter slating Romanov and claiming to represent all the other associations and Hearts fans. That was the biggest PR disaster in Hearts history and made us as supporters look like idiots, and the anti-Hearts media loved it.

 

If they had consulted the other organisations they would have known that they didn't have the concensus to issue that letter.

 

After that time all communication ceased between Romanov and the Hearts fans, and our club has been going down the pan.

 

For what it is worth, the FHSC are the biggest organised body representing Hearts fans, who give their members a vote on all issues. The other supporters groups have no contact or influence at Hearts anymore. Kickback, like other forums is not an organised means of managing issues and events - it just gives fans an outlet to voice their opinions (which differ considerably).

 

I wish the Federation all the best in their efforts to resolve our differences with the board and get an active dialog going with the fans.

 

 

I'd wish them all the very best too if it weren't for the fact that even if they DO get some active dialogue going, it won't be with the 'fans'. It'll only be with the two guys who are over there and subsequently, the 1500 or so members of the federation. The rest of us mere mortals will be lucky to get any info at all once they've edited out the bits they want to keep secret amongst themselves.

 

And I don't mean to be pernickety but your comments about Kickback are interesting. You don't think this forum is as representative of the fans as the federation because it's just an outlet for opinion? I'd like to think that the federation also operates as an outlet for opinion, because if it doesn't I fail to see what the point of it is at all.

[Bootboy100]

How easy is it to join the Fans Forum Federation thingy?

 

Does it cost and what do they do??

[djf]

The club shouldn't be meeting with them.

 

And they certainly shouldn't be discussing transfer targets and manager shortlists.

[Flogel98]

How easy is it to join the Fans Forum Federation thingy?

 

Does it cost and what do they do??

 

Fans Forum - I think anyone can simply turn up at their meetings.

 

Federation - I think you have to be a member of an affiliated Supporters club.

[Flogel98]

Simple question,

 

Which Group is representative of the fans then -

 

Shareholders Association?

Fans Forum?

Supporters Trust?

 

Each and everyone that is criticised by the majority group.

 

It's called the

 

'I'm not a member of any Group, but I have my own opinion Group. And I want my opinion to be heard first, and loudest and actioned ahead anyone else's. I'm not actually prepared to do anything productive or give up any of my time'

 

 

 

 

Seems to sum up the majority.

 

Touchy............

[Bootboy100]

Does this fans forum mob have a website??

[Flogel98]

Don't know but I know a man who will.

[redm]

The Fed represent their members, the Federation of Hearts Supporters Clubs.

 

Why the antipathy towards the Fed?

 

John Borthwick seems a good guy (I don't know him personally, and I am not a member of a Fed affiliated supporters club myself before anyone asks)

 

It would be easier to explain if we still had the 15 page thread on this subject that was lost in the move. (Hint hint mods...)

 

I can't speak for anyone else but I have nothing against John Borthwick at all. I just have a serious issue with the federation's attitude towards sharing the info it receives with the average, bog standard fan. Apparently those of us who aren't members of a supporters club and don't travel to games by bus aren't worthy of being made privy to the more controversial info they receive. That stuff is removed from the minutes and is only sent to their 1500 members by email.

 

As I said earlier today...they don't tell Vlad etc where to stick his confidential information or actually do the right thing and demand that they maintain normal and open channels of communication by fans...Nope. They grab the juicy stuff and keep it to themselves. Pfft. And now I'm all wound up about it again....argh. It's football supporter elitism at its best.

 

[Vlad_Knows_Best]

For what it is worth, the FHSC are the biggest organised body representing Hearts fans, who give their members a vote on all issues. The other supporters groups have no contact or influence at Hearts anymore. Kickback, like other forums is not an organised means of managing issues and events - it just gives fans an outlet to voice their opinions (which differ considerably).

 

You are definately wrong there mate. The other groups do indeed have contact with Hearts.

[cylawny]

It would be easier to explain if we still had the 15 page thread on this subject that was lost in the move. (Hint hint mods...)

 

I can't speak for anyone else but I have nothing against John Borthwick at all. I just have a serious issue with the federation's attitude towards sharing the info it receives with the average, bog standard fan. Apparently those of us who aren't members of a supporters club and don't travel to games by bus aren't worthy of being made privy to the more controversial info they receive. That stuff is removed from the minutes and is only sent to their 1500 members by email.

 

As I said earlier today...they don't tell Vlad etc where to stick his confidential information or actually do the right thing and demand that they maintain normal and open channels of communication by fans...Nope. They grab the juicy stuff and keep it to themselves. Pfft. And now I'm all wound up about it again....argh. It's football supporter elitism at its best.

 

 

Why not join a supporters club then ?

 

It would probably only cost about ?10 or ?20 a year.

 

I don't think you have to travel on the bus to be a member, just need to pay your subs.

[DETTY29]

Touchy............

 

F98,

 

I was battering the keyboard at the time.

 

I think people who don't vote shouldn't complain about the state of the country.

 

The only way to get the views of the majority:-

 

- Either set up a new Group and sell it so you have at least 50% of the customer base. Although in a first past the post democracy with a number of candidates, you generally only need circa 35% of the ' overall voters/members' to have a mandate.

 

- Get all the various official Groups to merge into one, or aiming for the same goals. For this you would need one overall spokesperson. This would entail a number of people of losing assumed power. You would then have to either

 

a) Sell the benefits of the merger to them - even if they lose control or

 

Even better, sell them the benefits and make them think it was their idea in the first place.

[Darth Jambo]

Why not join a supporters club then ?

 

It would probably only cost about ?10 or ?20 a year.

 

I don't think you have to travel on the bus to be a member, just need to pay your subs.

 

 

How many different supporters clubs are there? Does the federation only cover some of them?

[Adi Dassler]

OK, what will happen is this.

 

The reps will be positive. They will have been told somethings which are confidential (probably something to do with the stadium and possibly a short list of managers they will be told we are looking at - whether we are or not will be a moot point), this will have bought their trust that Vlad thinks they are important. They will then be provided with a summary of where things are going which is basically positive

 

They will told not to worry about the debt. They will be told we are looking far and wide for a manager befitting a club like Hearts. They will be told our youth initiatives remain the future (much like Garlic Bread is).

 

Thinking that they are in Vlad's trust they will believe all is well and will signal this by declaring "things are going in the right direction"

 

We wont be told a lot, if any detail. We'll all fall out about it. "Real" fans will fight glory hunters. Vladsheep - both of them still left - will fight everyone else.

 

Not much will change

 

But we WILL gub the Hobos on Saturday and people will think we're back on the straight and narrow.

 

Then we'll be put out both cups before the month end.....

 

I don't think i've read anything so sensible on KB for a long time.

[frankblack]

Simple question,

 

Which Group is representative of the fans then -

 

Shareholders Association?

Fans Forum?

Supporters Trust?

 

Each and everyone that is criticised by the majority group.

 

It's called the

 

'I'm not a member of any Group, but I have my own opinion Group. And I want my opinion to be heard first, and loudest and actioned ahead anyone else's. I'm not actually prepared to do anything productive or give up any of my time'

 

 

 

 

Seems to sum up the majority.

 

Spot on - I tried to make the same point in my earlier post, but you have nailed it.

 

Kickback is so disunited in peoples opinions that it is impossible to use it as a supporters organisation representing the fans.

 

Those people that constantly bitch about the Federation not representing them need to put up or shut up. The Federation is a democratic vehicle for its members, and there is nothing stopping people joining a member club to have their views expressed. My local club is the Rainbow Hearts, although I am not a member this season due to work and financial commitments.

[redm]

Why not join a supporters club then ?

 

It would probably only cost about ?10 or ?20 a year.

 

I don't think you have to travel on the bus to be a member, just need to pay your subs.

 

It's not about the money cylawny, if it was as simple as paying ?20 I would have done that a long time ago. I just don't like that the federation seems to have a self-serving agenda which does little but alienate the vast majority of fans who are not members of a supporters club. They know that communication is a huge issue for the fans, especially now when things aren't great...but they seem content to allow that to continue if it means they're still in favour with Vladimir.

 

I couldn't join a group that told me I shouldn't share the information I receive with other fans simply because they haven't paid ?20. It's not their place to decide which fans are worthy and which are not...and it's certainly not mine either. Someone earlier on made a remark that it was better to have ONE supporters group in Vlad's inner circle than none at all, but I couldn't disagree more. We might as well have no groups in favour with Vlad...we wouldn't notice the difference....

 

If I was to join up, it would be with thoroughly good intentions but I would be unable to observe these rules of secrecy that they have. So even if I got through the door, I probably wouldn't be part of the gang for long anyway...

[broxburnjambo]

It's not about the money cylawny, if it was as simple as paying ?20 I would have done that a long time ago. I just don't like that the federation seems to have a self-serving agenda which does little but alienate the vast majority of fans who are not members of a supporters club. They know that communication is a huge issue for the fans, especially now when things aren't great...but they seem content to allow that to continue if it means they're still in favour with Vladimir.

 

I couldn't join a group that told me I shouldn't share the information I receive with other fans simply because they haven't paid ?20. It's not their place to decide which fans are worthy and which are not...and it's certainly not mine either. Someone earlier on made a remark that it was better to have ONE supporters group in Vlad's inner circle than none at all, but I couldn't disagree more. We might as well have no groups in favour with Vlad...we wouldn't notice the difference....

 

If I was to join up, it would be with thoroughly good intentions but I would be unable to observe these rules of secrecy that they have. So even if I got through the door, I probably wouldn't be part of the gang for long anyway...

 

Instead of critising the federation for lack of information, you could look no further than the club you claim to support.

The federation members pay an annual fee to become members of that organisation.

You know doubt pay a considerable amount of money to HMFC and as such would like communication about what is going on.

Surely your gripe is with the club and not the Federation.

[The Old Tolbooth]

Why not join a supporters club then ?

 

It would probably only cost about ?10 or ?20 a year.

 

I don't think you have to travel on the bus to be a member, just need to pay your subs.

 

Also you would be privvy to certain top secret info that us minions are not at the moment.

[portobellojambo1]

Instead of critising the federation for lack of information, you could look no further than the club you claim to support.

The federation members pay an annual fee to become members of that organisation.

You know doubt pay a considerable amount of money to HMFC and as such would like communication about what is going on.

Surely your gripe is with the club and not the Federation.

 

Have sent you a PM - read it and let me know.

[Dazo]

Instead of critising the federation for lack of information, you could look no further than the club you claim to support.

The federation members pay an annual fee to become members of that organisation.

You know doubt pay a considerable amount of money to HMFC and as such would like communication about what is going on.

Surely your gripe is with the club and not the Federation.

 

 

But the club is telling the Federation more information than they are the rest of the hearts support. What harm would it do the Federation if they released the information to all hearts fans ?

[broxburnjambo]

Have sent you a PM - read it and let me know.

 

REPLIED

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

No federation or supporters clubs represent my views so I'm not bothered who they share their info with.

 

Who cares anyway? They aren't going to find out any top secret ground breaking news that won't come out in the wash.

 

Anyone that thinks Romanov is going to bow down to them and give them all the answers they are looking for is in dreamland.

[broxburnjambo]

But the club is telling the Federation more information than they are the rest of the hearts support. What harm would it do the Federation if they released the information to all hearts fans ?

 

What harm would it do for Hearts to release this information themselves. They are the club we all support after all. The have the means via a website and have unpresidented access to the media.

[portobellojambo1]

REPLIED

 

Good man.

[Beverley]

Instead of critising the federation for lack of information, you could look no further than the club you claim to support.

The federation members pay an annual fee to become members of that organisation.

You know doubt pay a considerable amount of money to HMFC and as such would like communication about what is going on.

Surely your gripe is with the club and not the Federation.

 

you partly have a point, but as long as there are people who think of other fans as not worthy, and there are members who stroke their own egos by teasingly drip, drip, dripping tiny little hints of being in the know, then waiting on others less in the know to beg for the information, then its how many people are going to feel.

 

i bear no anger towards the members i have met in the past and generally get on with everyone, but cornhills comments on the post left in the old forum really got my back up, and no doubt, many others too

 

i DESPISE this whole "i'm a better fan" bullshecht

 

we all support the same team, we all pay our money, and we all deserve a bit of transparency, but while we aren't getting that, the few people who are in the old boys club for want of a better phrase, continue to tease fellow fans with the information they may have received

 

 

all that is being acheived by those actions is a division between fans, which will gain us nothing as a support.

 

 

look at the last g10 meeting for example...

there were a few people got a few juicy titbits and proceeded to drop huge hints they knew something others didn't, then sat doing nothing as people were falling over themselves to try and get that info too

lordy, it was even admitted that stuff like finances were spoken about BEFORE the shareholders even got to find out!

 

 

its like being back at school as someone already pointed out

 

ah'll tell ma pals, but naw, ah'm no tellin you cos you're no in mah gang right!

[Dazo]

What harm would it do for Hearts to release this information themselves. They are the club we all support after all. The have the means via a website and have unpresidented access to the media.

 

It would do hearts no harm at all, What harm would it do the Federation ? Is there a specific reason for not sharing any news they may get ?

[Grainger]

I personnally don't have any problem at all with Federation people meeting with people at Hearts and then telling their members what was said at the meeting. Think the only annoying thing would be if it then did not get filtered to the rest of the support, perhaps via JKB or the EEN. Borthwick is quick enough to give his views when the EEN phone him up, so perhaps it would be good if he were to phone the EEN for a change?!

[Drylaw Hearts]

But the club is telling the Federation more information than they are the rest of the hearts support. What harm would it do the Federation if they released the information to all hearts fans ?

 

An excellent point.

 

You don't even have to be a ST holder to be a member of the Federation.

 

The Club are keeping the Federation in the loop whilst overlooking the rest of the support.

[Cobblers]

Would I be right in thinking that the vast majority of Federation members are as well (or should I say poorly) informed as the rest of us.

 

I have to agree with PJ1 the problem here lies with the club.

 

The problem with any representative forum is that they are often privvy to sensitive and confidential information. Part of the bond of trust in any consultative arrangement is that confidential issues can be discussed without them being leaked. It's inevitable that those involved end up knowing more than the rest of us. If they disclose confidential information then they lose any chance to influence things in the future. This is fine in most cases but becomes a problem if the confidentiality clause gets abused.

 

I have no problem with bodies such as the Federation, Fans Forum, Shareholders Association, Supporters Trust representing the views of us as supporters. I am sure there are some who have similar views to myself and others who won't but at the end of the day I believe they all have the best interests of the club at heart.

[Dazo]

An excellent point.

 

You don't even have to be a ST holder to be a member of the Federation.

 

The Club are keeping the Federation in the loop whilst overlooking the rest of the support.

 

 

It is a strange setup that the club are to blame for. I have no problem with the Federation at all however i don't understand this need not to share with hearts supporters. I may be missing something but surely we all deserve to know whats going on equally.

[Walter Kidd]

Ach, the boy was right in what ha said about that letter. If I had been Vlad I would have hee hawed for about 3 days at the unprofessionalism of it.

 

Fair play for the Federation Boys, I'm not a member of the Federation as our bus folded about 94 after a drunken episode in Aberdeen.

 

I hope they checked their fingers were still there after they shook hands with a Romanov though.

[broxburnjambo]

I personnally don't have any problem at all with Federation people meeting with people at Hearts and then telling their members what was said at the meeting. Think the only annoying thing would be if it then did not get filtered to the rest of the support, perhaps via JKB or the EEN. Borthwick is quick enough to give his views when the EEN phone him up, so perhaps it would be good if he were to phone the EEN for a change?!

 

Fluffy.

You have hit it on the head.

Its up to the Federation to tell its membership.

Its up to Hearts to tell its supporters. By that i do not mean the members of the Federation, but all Hearts supporters.

The Federation have been asked to Lithuania to ask questions on behalf of Hearts supporters. Surely then its Hearts responsiblity to publish these questions and answers. Not ther federations.