Orlando mass shooting incident

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Much as he had a point last night, I don't like Owen Jones. He's from this breed of people who think that by writing a few comment pieces each week he's somehow fighting to change the world.

[zoltan socrates]

Every day (no joke) my Facebook feed was just be clogged with anti Tory and Nationalist links.  Everyone apologising for Islamic terror, the RIP posts were getting ridiculous too.  People trying to out grieve each other.  The reality is that there is a huge trend right now of people on the left just trying too hard.  The SNP are the Champs at trying too hard but the left in general are giving it a good go.  People changing their profile pic to the flag of whatever nation has just had a terror attack flocking like mass sheep to the grief clinic.  Everything is David Cameron?s fault, it is a crime to be privileged, nasty England this, flawless SNP that.  I genuinely think people surf the net all day waiting for some celebrity to die so they can beat their pals to the grief clinic.

 

Even going by this thread it sums it up.  There is an Islamic attack and people are so scared (media too) to call it like it is and will make sure the people in their facebook world know that they are a nice person and love all Muslims.  Instead of condemning it for what it is (another Islamic evil whack job) they will bend over backwards to apologise for him.  The world is getting nauseatingly phoney.  Fakery is everywhere, people pretending to give a shit about some celebrity that they had never once mentioned on facebook whilst alive, or picking and choosing what atrocity to support by their profile pic (usually the one getting most media coverage at the time).

 

People need to give themselves a slap, take their head out the sand and wake up to the harsh reality.  Religion and all it breeds is destroying this world.  This namby pamby pandering left wing bullshit is crippling our way of life.  Trump is going to walk this US election and good luck to him.  How can a leader of the Western World that is not scared to say what he feels ever be a bad thing?Clinton, Merkel, Sturgeon et al are seriously dangerous.  They are this new breed of arse licker that is making the good people of this world a f?kn pushover.  Anything to not step over the PC line.

Top marks, completely correct, not anti Islamic at all, some people need to come to terms with what Islam actually is rather than the leftist rainbow view they'd like Islam to be

[FWJ]

Can't imagine how frantic you would be getting messages like that from a loved one and not being able to do anything - and waiting, in vain, for a response. Horrible.

[Ray Gin]

Every day (no joke) my Facebook feed was just be clogged with anti Tory and Nationalist links.  Everyone apologising for Islamic terror, the RIP posts were getting ridiculous too.  People trying to out grieve each other.  The reality is that there is a huge trend right now of people on the left just trying too hard.  The SNP are the Champs at trying too hard but the left in general are giving it a good go.  People changing their profile pic to the flag of whatever nation has just had a terror attack flocking like mass sheep to the grief clinic.  Everything is David Cameron?s fault, it is a crime to be privileged, nasty England this, flawless SNP that.  I genuinely think people surf the net all day waiting for some celebrity to die so they can beat their pals to the grief clinic.

 

Even going by this thread it sums it up.  There is an Islamic attack and people are so scared (media too) to call it like it is and will make sure the people in their facebook world know that they are a nice person and love all Muslims.  Instead of condemning it for what it is (another Islamic evil whack job) they will bend over backwards to apologise for him.  The world is getting nauseatingly phoney.  Fakery is everywhere, people pretending to give a shit about some celebrity that they had never once mentioned on facebook whilst alive, or picking and choosing what atrocity to support by their profile pic (usually the one getting most media coverage at the time).

 

People need to give themselves a slap, take their head out the sand and wake up to the harsh reality.  Religion and all it breeds is destroying this world.  This namby pamby pandering left wing bullshit is crippling our way of life.  Trump is going to walk this US election and good luck to him.  How can a leader of the Western World that is not scared to say what he feels ever be a bad thing?Clinton, Merkel, Sturgeon et al are seriously dangerous.  They are this new breed of arse licker that is making the good people of this world a f?kn pushover.  Anything to not step over the PC line.

 

Yes, what could possibly go wrong by having an outspoken, racist, homophobic, bigoted, right-wing nutter as a leader of a heavily militarised country?

 

Can't be a bad thing, surely?

 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Yes, what could possibly go wrong by having an outspoken, racist, homophobic, bigoted, right-wing nutter as a leader of a heavily militarised country?

 

Can't be a bad thing, surely?

 

 

I know what you're saying. Trump is an absolute knob and I'd assume he'd be worse in office.

 

But here's the problem. Moderate politics is not really solving or addressing any of these issues. More than anything, moderate politics is hiding from them or paying them lip service. So people gravitate towards more extreme views. Depressing stuff but a reality of life.

 

People like Owen Jones think that doing nothing is better than acting to extremes. They have no answers when the issues become overwhelming.

[CollyWolly]

Who blamed every Muslim?

No one. he implied the religion itself was responsible in some way, which is nonsense obviously.

[CollyWolly]

Where did he blame every Muslim?

Where did he say that these murderers represent Islam on the whole?

It was implied that the religion itself is the problem. It isn't. Its co-existed perfectly well for hundreds of years and this extremism was given birth to by Zionist American foreign policy

[i8hibsh]

It was implied that the religion itself is the problem. It isn't. Its co-existed perfectly well for hundreds of years and this extremism was given birth to by Zionist American foreign policy

 

Eh? religion has never co-existed perfectly.  That is an actual wtf post.

[CollyWolly]

Eh? religion has never co-existed perfectly.  That is an actual wtf post.

In terms of radicalisation, aggressive jihadism against the west and terrorism I meant.

[Norm]

There's nice muslims, there's arsehole muslims. In much the same way that there's nice Christians and arsehole ones. And Buddhists, Jews, Sikhs and atheists. Basically, there's some right horrible *******s in this world and that's never changing.

 

A bit depressing really.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Much as he had a point last night, I don't like Owen Jones. He's from this breed of people who think that by writing a few comment pieces each week he's somehow fighting to change the world.

Hes blocked me on Twitter for some reason.  So much for freedom of expression.  Considering im a gay guy. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

I cant really think of any religion which accepts and respects gay people. I hate all religions with equal measure but its when people like this nut job use their religious idelogy as their reason for mass killings .. its too much.

 

The man obviously had various issues

 

- wife beater  domestic violence

- homophobe - got angry cause he seem two men kiss !!

- and it does seem the apple didnt fall far from the tree considering his dads  response... ( up to go to punish gays !)

 

add the easy availabilty of guns and we have a recipe for carnage

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Hes blocked me on Twitter for some reason.  So much for freedom of expression.  Considering im a gay guy. 

 

He got caught in his own hypocrisy last night - imploring people (quite rightly) to condemn homophobia while, as he usually does, refusing to address the issue of radical Islam.

[i8hibsh]

There's nice muslims, there's arsehole muslims. In much the same way that there's nice Christians and arsehole ones. And Buddhists, Jews, Sikhs and atheists. Basically, there's some right horrible *******s in this world and that's never changing.

 

A bit depressing really.

Don't see many Budhists or Sikhs murdering innocent people in the name of their beliefs. I really believe religion, especially Islam creates that extra special evil.

 

P.s I hope my post is seen as an attack on Islam.

[southcap]

Don't see many Budhists or Sikhs murdering innocent people in the name of their beliefs. I really believe religion, especially Islam creates that extra special evil.

 

P.s I hope my post is seen as an attack on Islam.

If you want to be pedantic.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_violence

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_India

 

Unheard of.

[CollyWolly]

Don't see many Budhists or Sikhs murdering innocent people in the name of their beliefs. I really believe religion, especially Islam creates that extra special evil.

 

P.s I hope my post is seen as an attack on Islam.

Doesn't bother me for you to attack Islam as a culture and religion, but its narrow minded and a sweeping generalisation to do so and I disagree with your view on it.

However you are entitled to have an opinion as am I.

For balance, we can start listing Christian atrocities anytime your ready.

Sikh terrorists, amongst other acts of mass murder throughout history blew an Air India plane out of the sky in fairly recent times

There are terrorist events attributed to Buddhists also.

[Generic Username]

When I was in Thailand there was a lot of incidents of reported rape attributed to Buddhist monks. There's bad eggs everywhere.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

In terms of radicalisation, aggressive jihadism against the west and terrorism I meant.

 

Radicalisation, Jihadism and Terrorism against the West by Muslims is nothing new, it's been present for the last 1400 years.

 

"Christians in the eleventh century were not paranoid fanatics. Muslims really were gunning for them. While Muslims can be peaceful, Islam was born in war and grew the same way. From the time of Mohammed, the means of Muslim expansion was always the sword. Muslim thought divides the world into two spheres, the Abode of Islam and the Abode of War. Christianity?and for that matter any other non-Muslim religion?has no abode. Christians and Jews can be tolerated within a Muslim state under Muslim rule. But, in traditional Islam, Christian and Jewish states must be destroyed and their lands conquered. When Mohammed was waging war against Mecca in the seventh century, Christianity was the dominant religion of power and wealth. As the faith of the Roman Empire, it spanned the entire Mediterranean, including the Middle East, where it was born. The Christian world, therefore, was a prime target for the earliest caliphs, and it would remain so for Muslim leaders for the next thousand years.

 

With enormous energy, the warriors of Islam struck out against the Christians shortly after Mohammed?s death. They were extremely successful. Palestine, Syria, and Egypt?once the most heavily Christian areas in the world?quickly succumbed. By the eighth century, Muslim armies had conquered all of Christian North Africa and Spain. In the eleventh century, the Seljuk Turks conquered Asia Minor (modern Turkey), which had been Christian since the time of St. Paul. The old Roman Empire, known to modern historians as the Byzantine Empire, was reduced to little more than Greece. In desperation, the emperor in Constantinople sent word to the Christians of western Europe asking them to aid their brothers and sisters in the East."

 

http://www.crisismagazine.com/2011/the-real-history-of-the-crusades

[i8hibsh]

Doesn't bother me for you to attack Islam as a culture and religion, but its narrow minded and a sweeping generalisation to do so and I disagree with your view on it.

However you are entitled to have an opinion as am I.

For balance, we can start listing Christian atrocities anytime your ready.

Sikh terrorists, amongst other acts of mass murder throughout history blew an Air India plane out of the sky in fairly recent times

There are terrorist events attributed to Buddhists also.

 

 

File them all under religion mate. Same shit to me, I just find Islam the most abhorrent and repulsive.

[CollyWolly]

File them all under religion mate. Same shit to me, I just find Islam the most abhorrent and repulsive.

No you find the acts of their extremist elements the most abhorrent and repulsive. No doubt that's true but if your not a religious person, the chances are you know next to nothing about the faith and culture of Islam and I am guessing you've never studied the Quran

[i8hibsh]

No you find the acts of their extremist elements the most abhorrent and repulsive. No doubt that's true but if your not a religious person, the chances are you know next to nothing about the faith and culture of Islam and I am guessing you've never studied the Quran

 

No, I find Islam in the whole abhorrent and repulsive.

[Cade]

It's all a bit sad that everybody is arguing over whether his actions were prompted by his anti-gay obsession and violent nature or if he was egged on by ISIL.

 

50 folk are dead and many more will have life changing injuries.

 

The man was a complete knobber. How he managed to buy an assault rifle despite being on watch lists and having a violent criminal record is the real issue here.

A white bloke with a similar cache of weapons was luckily caught before he could murder dozens of LGBT people.

 

LGBT persecution is a huge issue in the USA right now, with the transgender toilet debate and gay marriage dominating politics in certain places.

 

It's all too easy to just say "This was just another ISIL atrocity" and not have a deeper look at the other issues.

 

Nobody is apologizing for the nut job. People are trying to make sure that the other issues are not lost in an ocean of anti-muslim hysteria.

[i8hibsh]

It's all a bit sad that everybody is arguing over whether his actions were prompted by his anti-gay obsession and violent nature or if he was egged on by ISIL.

 

50 folk are dead and many more will have life changing injuries.

 

The man was a complete knobber. How he managed to buy an assault rifle despite being on watch lists and having a violent criminal record is the real issue here.

A white bloke with a similar cache of weapons was luckily caught before he could murder dozens of LGBT people.

 

LGBT persecution is a huge issue in the USA right now, with the transgender toilet debate and gay marriage dominating politics in certain places.

 

It's all too easy to just say "This was just another ISIL atrocity" and not have a deeper look at the other issues.

 

Nobody is apologizing for the nut job. People are trying to make sure that the other issues are not lost in an ocean of anti-muslim hysteria.

 

 

Sadly, this reeks of Islamic apology.

[Zibi]

In a poll a couple of months ago, half of Muslims in the UK said they think homosexuality should be illegal. Maybe Owen Jones should spend some time addressing the barbaric views that are rife in the Muslin community rather than going around branding decent, tolerant white people who highlight this problem racists and scumbags. 

[Cade]

In a poll a couple of months ago, half of Muslims in the UK said they think homosexuality should be illegal. Maybe Owen Jones should spend some time addressing the barbaric views that are rife in the Muslin community rather than going around branding decent, tolerant white people who highlight this problem racists and scumbags. 

How many Christians said the same?

[Zibi]

How many Christians said the same?

22%. Though it only states a figure for non-Muslins rather than specifically Christians.

 

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/7861/british-muslims-survey

[Dallas Cowboys]

22%. Though it only states a figure for non-Muslins rather than specifically Christians.

 

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/7861/british-muslims-survey

Don't think that was the answer our resident Islam apologist wanted.

[Cade]

TBF I was surprised that only 50% of muslims wanted homosexuality criminalised.

[michael_bolton]

Don't see many Budhists or Sikhs murdering innocent people in the name of their beliefs. I really believe religion, especially Islam creates that extra special evil.

 

P.s I hope my post is seen as an attack on Islam.

 

I lived in Sri Lanka for two years. Buddhists are capable of killing plenty of people. Sri Lanka, Burma, Thailand.

 

They are not as painted in the west.

[lauriesrank]

Yes, what could possibly go wrong by having an outspoken, racist, homophobic, bigoted, right-wing nutter as a leader of a heavily militarised country?

 

Can't be a bad thing, surely?

 

Once again, Godwins law on the money.  Really wish peopl ewould have their own ideology.

 

FWIW, it was an islamic attack, I despise all religions too, oh, and here are my drawings of mohammad and J?sus

 

'People who may have lived' (bad drawings I know)

[JudyJudyJudy]

He got caught in his own hypocrisy last night - imploring people (quite rightly) to condemn homophobia while, as he usually does, refusing to address the issue of radical Islam.

Spot on. 

[Sharpie]

Iis hard to understand for me, a guy says he hates Gays, goes mental because he sees two guys kissing, but does nothing. Later he decides he is going to kill Gays so he decides to get guns, easy for him because of his security clearance, then drives I believe it is twelve hours to Florida.  He then goes to a previously selected club at 2.00am  goes in and starts to kill people. These are not just Gays but people who have different sexual orientations. Lesbians, bisexual, transgengender, all different, but have a common bond of being seen as different.  Why kill them all if it is men sharing a sexual act that bothers him. To me it seems planned and considered not an act of anger, and really not having any real pourpose.

 

Its easy to say its Muslim oriented, but I suppose Islam is like every other religion it gives a reason for executing your purpose, and all the teachings can be manipulated to suit your particular cause. Like guns, like knives, like bombs none of them are truly on their own harmful, its only when us humans turn them to our own purpose that they become harmful.

[Sten Guns]

There's a real acceptance of this kind of thing these days. This saddens me most I think.

 

The fact it's no longer a surprise when this happens and so many people are prepared to just say, "ah well there's bad folk in all walks of life".

 

Incredible.

[Cade]

That was the 147th mass shooting in the USA this year so far

[i8hibsh]

That was the 147th mass shooting in the USA this year so far

Seriously dude we get it. We get the fact that you do not want to be known as an Islam hater. However, I have a set of balls and I think Islam is a serious evil in this world.

[Dallas Cowboys]

That was the 147th mass shooting in the USA this year so far

It was a terrorist attack

[CollyWolly]

No, I find Islam in the whole abhorrent and repulsive.[/quote

No, I find Islam in the whole abhorrent and repulsive.

 

What parts of it in particular ? What's your top five abhorrent and repulsive things about the Islamic faith ?

[Norm]

It was a terrorist attack

That was a mass shooting.

[William H. Bonney]

That was a mass shooting.

Mass shooting/terrorist attack/ homophobic attack.

It's all the same thing. An atrocity.

[i8hibsh]

That was a mass shooting.

It was the exact definition of a terrorist attack.

[Dallas Cowboys]

That was a mass shooting.

Committed in the name of IS terror

[Norm]

It was the exact definition of a terrorist attack.

Correct. Carried out as a mass shooting. Islamic ****wits carried out this attack and they need dealt with but let's not pretend the US's gun laws weren't an enormous help.

 

You can stop a suspected terrorist from boarding a plane, but not from buying a shit load of guns? That's mental.

[Cade]

The maniac was born in the USA and had no contact with extremists other than online.

 

How do you counter that?

[felix]

Committed in the name of IS terror

...committed by a fag-hater with an assault rifle in a gay club.

A homophobic attack in other words.

[CollyWolly]

Committed in the name of IS terror

He doesn't appear to have been trained, sponsored or instructed by IS. Doesn't appear to have even been radicalised. According to those who knew him he was religious but not over zealous about it.

 

Not that it makes a whole lot of difference who or what he was representing or portrayed himself as representing. First and foremost he was a deranged and unbalanced psychopath. One with 2nd amendment rights.

[Norm]

Committed in the name of IS terror

Of course. But as above, enabled by liberal gun laws. They're both issues that need sorted. The world can help in the fight against Daesh. Only the Americans can do something about their problem with gun crime.

[Dallas Cowboys]

...committed by a fag-hater with an assault rifle in a gay club.

A homophobic attack in other words.

Doesn't matter how you wish to portray it, it's a terrorist attack.

[deesidejambo]

This was a lone wolf.

 

He hated gays.

 

He had a legally owned AR-16 assault rifle.

 

He had no contact with ISIL or any other radical islamic terror group.

 

He had no terrorist training.

 

He made a rambling phone call to the police stating allegiance to ISIL just before going out to kill as many gay people as he could.

 

This was a anti-gay hate crime.

 

This was not part of an all out religious war.

Yup. I'd add that he was mentally unstable.

 

But Clinton turns it into a gun control issue and Trump turns it into anti-Moslem.

 

Both are twats

[Riddley Walker]

Yup. I'd add that he was mentally unstable.

 

But Clinton turns it into a gun control issue and Trump turns it into anti-Moslem.

 

Both are twats

Yes. The hypocrisy in Clinton moaning about his access to guns when people are buying guns to commit murder every day in the US is also striking.

 

Maybe you should just, you know, not sell ****ing assault rifles in a shop.

[i8hibsh]

Hilary Clinton is a serious danger. She is so fake it makes me sick. Everything that is wrong with this world. Trump calls it like it is and Clinton walks around the subject and is so shit scared to offend sweeps it under the carpet.