Orlando mass shooting incident

[elvoys]

I think he means "aye but he's still an islamic type eh but no"

I think he means "aye but he's still an islamic type eh but no"

You really think this is my level of perception on the issue? I'm more than happy to go toe to toe with you on the issue from the faiths founding to Hassan Al banna and up to today. Otherwise avoid playing the simpleton racist card, especially since I'm feeling you are woefully undereducated in the topic but foolish enough to adopt a knowing posture.

 

The dads dismissal of ideology when he is likely looking for solace and answers in it right now is to be expected. You are talking about the center of his identity. Also, most of the 'lone wolves' engagement with IS narratives is normally isolated from family even if the wider religious values are not. Thirdly, it's turning out that he was on fbi books two years ago and police on the scene are looking into lsource that says he pledged allegiance to IS in a phone call before the attack.

 

Now, even if this is as far from the normal trends as possible and he turns out to be a nominal follower who had a social circle like a united colors of Benetton ad (very unlikely) my point that he was likely raised in a very hostile climate to homosexuality remains although as I expected, it looks unlikely that it was the sole or key motivation as the parents said.

 

Lastly, the fact that this thread has slipped into gun control mode is all very depressing, guns are easy to come across in Florida, as they were in Paris and in the gun control and gun crime capital, Chicago. This is almost certainly another IS inspired act in he global jihadist insurgency after the recent Sheikh Adnani worldwide call to do it during Ramadan (and receive multiplied afterlife benefits)

[elvoys]

L.A attacker with similar m.o picked up last night. Logic and history suggests coordinated though authorities saying unconnected.

[Footballfirst]

L.A attacker with similar m.o just been picked up. Looks coordinated.

 

He was actually picked up in Santa Monica last night, apparently heading for the LA Pride festival.

[John Frum]

L.A attacker with similar m.o just been picked up. Looks coordinated.

Not seeing anything on the main news sites yet. Where are you picking this up?

[Chester™]

Not seeing anything on the main news sites yet. Where are you picking this up?

US news sites on Social Media

[Footballfirst]

Not seeing anything on the main news sites yet. Where are you picking this up?

 

I've just heard in on CNN as I was just looking for an update of the Orlando incident.  The info was passed on in a speech by the LA Mayor.

[jambo1961]

You really think this is my level of perception on the issue? I'm more than happy to go toe to toe with you on the issue from the faiths founding to Hassan Al banna and up to today. Otherwise avoid playing the simpleton racist card, especially since I'm feeling you are woefully undereducated in the topic but foolish enough to adopt a knowing posture.

 

The dads dismissal of ideology when he is likely looking for solace and answers in it right now is to be expected. You are talking about the center of his identity. Also, most of the 'lone wolves' engagement with IS narratives is normally isolated from family even if the wider religious values are not. Thirdly, it's turning out that he was on fbi books two years ago and police on the scene are looking into lsource that says he pledged allegiance to IS in a phone call before the attack.

 

Now, even if this is as far from the normal trends as possible and he turns out to be a nominal follower who had a social circle like a united colors of Benetton ad (very unlikely) my point that he was likely raised in a very hostile climate to homosexuality remains although as I expected, it looks unlikely that it was the sole or key motivation as the parents said.

 

Lastly, the fact that this thread has slipped into gun control mode is all very depressing, guns are easy to come across in Florida, as they were in Paris and in the gun control and gun crime capital, Chicago. This is almost certainly another IS inspired act in he global jihadist insurgency after the recent Sheikh Adnani worldwide call to do it during Ramadan (and receive multiplied afterlife benefits)

You shouldny take yersel to seriously

[William H. Bonney]

Not seeing anything on the main news sites yet. Where are you picking this up?

His antenna, on his head.

[The White Cockade]

You really think this is my level of perception on the issue? I'm more than happy to go toe to toe with you on the issue from the faiths founding to Hassan Al banna and up to today. Otherwise avoid playing the simpleton racist card, especially since I'm feeling you are woefully undereducated in the topic but foolish enough to adopt a knowing posture.

 

The dads dismissal of ideology when he is likely looking for solace and answers in it right now is to be expected. You are talking about the center of his identity. Also, most of the 'lone wolves' engagement with IS narratives is normally isolated from family even if the wider religious values are not. Thirdly, it's turning out that he was on fbi books two years ago and police on the scene are looking into lsource that says he pledged allegiance to IS in a phone call before the attack.

 

Now, even if this is as far from the normal trends as possible and he turns out to be a nominal follower who had a social circle like a united colors of Benetton ad (very unlikely) my point that he was likely raised in a very hostile climate to homosexuality remains although as I expected, it looks unlikely that it was the sole or key motivation as the parents said.

 

Lastly, the fact that this thread has slipped into gun control mode is all very depressing, guns are easy to come across in Florida, as they were in Paris and in the gun control and gun crime capital, Chicago. This is almost certainly another IS inspired act in he global jihadist insurgency after the recent Sheikh Adnani worldwide call to do it during Ramadan (and receive multiplied afterlife benefits)

are you American mate?

[elvoys]

You shouldny take yersel to seriously

Ok here I go full paranoid whacko mode. People won't get the Huntington clash of civilizations reality until the dirty bomb is sourced and deployed over a euro city. At which point, a lurch into reality will completely disorientate society and we start going into mob rule mode.

 

This is what some think is behind obamas pre presidency Jesus rhetoric to hawk in chief. He has seen the intelligence over Isi and Pakistans nuclear materials. And we know IS had Belgium nuclear plant blueprints and this is their holy grail (aside from Daqib etc)

 

To stop them before they get there we need a generational battle against the ideology like we did against homophobia, racism etc. this will involve a public conversation that deals with history, religious figures and ideas that looks almost the complete opposite form the current play it safe discourse and tangled foreign policy,

 

You can already see this disconnect playing out in smaller scale between the ruling classes and population with the shift to right and protectionism in Europe and how each attack boosts trumps chances,

[John Frum]

It would seem the intolerance isn't confined to just one religion (at least if you believe the Daily Mail)

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3637672/A-man-reaps-sows-Texas-governor-sparks-outrage-anti-LGBT-tweet-just-hours-Orlando-gay-club-massacre.html

 

'A man reaps what he sows': Texas governor sparks outrage with anti-LGBT tweet just hours after Orlando gay club massacre

[Chester™]

 and how each attack boosts trumps chances,

 

How many Bilderberg meetings has he been to, as a matter of interest?

[Trapper John McIntyre]

These types of threads immediately after tragedies are one of the strongest reasons for uninventing/abolishing the Internet.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Has it been confirmed that the attacker was a Muslim?

 

Just because he has a foreign sounding name means nothing at all.

[chuck berrys hairline]

Has it been confirmed that the attacker was a Muslim?

 

Just because he has a foreign sounding name means nothing at all.

Yeah BBC confirmed it. Not sure if it was the same person that had phoned 911 and pledged to Isis

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Yeah BBC confirmed it. Not sure if it was the same person that had phoned 911 and pledged to Isis

 

Cheers.

[Hasselhoff]

Has it been confirmed that the attacker was a Muslim?

 

Just because he has a foreign sounding name means nothing at all.

Parents were from Afghanistan but be was born in New York supposedly. People best to just wait and see what comes out in the next day or so before jumping to too many conclusions

[elvoys]

It would seem the intolerance isn't confined to just one religion (at least if you believe the Daily Mail)

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3637672/A-man-reaps-sows-Texas-governor-sparks-outrage-anti-LGBT-tweet-just-hours-Orlando-gay-club-massacre.html

 

'A man reaps what he sows': Texas governor sparks outrage with anti-LGBT tweet just hours after Orlando gay club massacre

Although is a sentiment that is likely shared by scores across Bible Belt there are theological differences even if you were to go full Old Testament (period for repentance being the key)

 

This video is a bit more pertinent and also in line to traditional and modern schools of thought (jurisprudence). I would also recommend people check the Iran homosexual execution figures to see this in action

 

youtube.com/watch?v=qBlwxqqAprQ ?

[John Frum]

Although is a sentiment that is likely shared by scores across Bible Belt there are theological differences even if you were to go full Old Testament (period for repentance being the key)

 

This video is a bit more pertinent and also in line to traditional and modern schools of thought (jurisprudence). I would also recommend people check the Iran homosexual execution figures to see this in action

 

youtube.com/watch?v=qBlwxqqAprQ ?

 

Although the abuse of young boys is not considered homosexuality in several  Moslem countries. Definitely have trouble getting my head round that.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/apr/25/middle-east-child-abuse-pederasty

[Ray Gin]

Has it been confirmed that the attacker was a Muslim?

 

Just because he has a foreign sounding name means nothing at all.

 

ISIS are claiming responsibility.

[elvoys]

Although the abuse of young boys is not considered homosexuality in several  Moslem countries. Definitely have trouble getting my head round that.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/apr/25/middle-east-child-abuse-pederasty

Bacha Bazi in his parents homeland. The novel the kite runner did well to publicize this. It was rife amongst northern alliance fighters and American soldiers couldn't believe they had to fight alongside them with it unchecked due to 'cultural sensitivity'

[elvoys]

Anyone know how the ban the pressure cooker lobby is doing since that was obviously what Boston was all about?

 

Oh, and as I alluded to earlier, the identity politics blinders even amongst the lbgt community are firmly fastened though I'm surprised this type of apologetics is trotted out this quick. Almost note for note the same line third wave feminists took after cologne.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/orlando-shooting-attack-gay-nightclub-lgbt-club-pulse-florida-mass-us-a7078341.html

[The White Cockade]

Bacha Bazi in his parents homeland. The novel the kite runner did well to publicize this. It was rife amongst northern alliance fighters and American soldiers couldn't believe they had to fight alongside them with it unchecked due to 'cultural sensitivity'

are you American?

[elvoys]

are you American?

Not me sir.

[Jambof3tornado]

are you American?

deleted.

[The White Cockade]

Not me sir.

just wondering why your posts all have American spelling color, center etc?

or are you just quoting from the internet?

[elvoys]

just wondering why your posts all have American spelling color, center etc?

or are you just quoting from the internet?

Wasn't aware of that, must be the predictive on iPad.

[The White Cockade]

Wasn't aware of that, must be the predictive on iPad.

ok just thought you may have been American

no worries

[Bridge of Djoum]

Wasn't aware of that, must be the predictive on iPad.

You are to be my 2nd person on my ignore list.

 

Absolute whack-job.

[CJGJ]

Reports the FBI have interviewed the gunman twice in the last couple of years indicating there must have been some issues known to the authorities

[jake]

Well played for seeing it for what it is and not letting the ill informed, blinkered and kneejerk reacting bullies sway you from pointing this out. Free speech was cherished and fearlessly defended by the likes of those that are now acting like thought police to stifle open debate. It's been turned upside down and most can't see it.

 

Try to stay away from these threads as sick of being branded racist etc by the gang that police this forum.

What you say is spot on.

At one time the left in this country defended against right wing extremists.

Not now.

They only allow themselves to do that if they are white.

I see the usual suspects are right in there accusing others of not knowing facts when its plainly obvious what the facts are.

There is good and bad in this world and it comes in the form of all races and religions.

We would be doing the decent muslims who are in conflict with their own hardline right wing anti humanity a favour if we condemned the utter shit they spout.

But no these threads go quiet because the social justice internet crew the same ones who post endless shit on facebook make you out as some kind of edl thug.

In this country its driven by the over ran labour party .

Not more than two months ago warnings were given about attacks on western culture.

Well here we are.

Right wing islam is the same as right wing christianity.

[Peebo]

Reports the FBI have interviewed the gunman twice in the last couple of years indicating there must have been some issues known to the authorities

Apparently interviewed twice after remarks made to a colleague, but investigation subsequently closed.

[Heres Rixxy]

Genuinely struggling to understand any of Elvoys posts.

 

Can you in one sentence, succinctly state what point you are making? It will help me and I suspect anyone else that reads the thread.

 

One sentence please.

[Cade]

Genuinely struggling to understand any of Elvoys posts.

 

Can you in one sentence, succinctly state what point you are making? It will help me and I suspect anyone else that reads the thread.

 

One sentence please.

I rather believe he's one of those people who believe there is an all-out war being waged between Islam and Christianity (but the public don't know it).

[Riddley Walker]

Try to stay away from these threads as sick of being branded racist etc by the gang that police this forum.

What you say is spot on.

At one time the left in this country defended against right wing extremists.

Not now.

They only allow themselves to do that if they are white.

I see the usual suspects are right in there accusing others of not knowing facts when its plainly obvious what the facts are.

There is good and bad in this world and it comes in the form of all races and religions.

We would be doing the decent muslims who are in conflict with their own hardline right wing anti humanity a favour if we condemned the utter shit they spout.

But no these threads go quiet because the social justice internet crew the same ones who post endless shit on facebook make you out as some kind of edl thug.

In this country its driven by the over ran labour party .

Not more than two months ago warnings were given about attacks on western culture.

Well here we are.

Right wing islam is the same as right wing christianity.

Really struggling to see where anyone has stifled debate Jake. Or tried to stop you having free speech. There's no need to get so defensive because someone tries to debate or argue against your opinion.

[Cade]

It seems this guy has been a life long homophobe and violently unstable (source; his parents).

 

Contact with heidbangers seems to have encouraged his views and led him to carry out this horrendous attack.

[Peebo]

It seems this guy has been a life long homophobe and violently unstable (source; his parents).

 

Contact with heidbangers seems to have encouraged his views and led him to carry out this horrendous attack.

Yes, it seems like the US is a really easy target for the Muslimoid nutter groups (as well as others). Don't have to bother with sleeper cells or weapon smuggling. Just wait for a weirdo with sympathetic tendencies to whip themselves up into a frenzy, then pick up an assault rifle like it ain't no thing, post a few terroristy things on social media then head out the house and kill lots of people.

 

Utterly sickening. I genuinely don't know how it can be stopped (clearly more stringent gun controls would be a start!).

[Morgan]

50 dead and 53 injured.

 

Source? Friends in Sausalito, California 10 minutes ago.

[Peebo]

50 dead and 53 injured.

 

Source? Friends in Sausalito, California 10 minutes ago.

Yeah, that's the figures that have been widely reported since mid-afternoon (UK time). Thankfully death toll has not risen (yet).

[jake]

Really struggling to see where anyone has stifled debate Jake. Or tried to stop you having free speech. There's no need to get so defensive because someone tries to debate or argue against your opinion.

 

Ridley its the accusation of being racist or xenophobic that stifles debate.

I could be personal and decsrbe my family history.

I wont .

I like to think my argument stands on its own.

I try to not play the poster but the post but increasingly i find that certain posters have a definite agenda.

Im at a loss to whats happening to the labour movement in this country.

Free speech is certainly curbed .

We have had this discussion before .

This thread is not about that but i gave you examples of that.

The rape and sexual exploitation of children (white children)was ignored because people were afraid to speak out in case of being accused of racism.

There are many other examples of this that do not involve asians .

Just in case you think ive a particular grievance against them.

[cosanostra]

If people refrain from posting racist comments then they won't be branded racist.

Just say what you mean but please keep it within the forum rules.

I also have no idea what Elvoys is talking about.

[jake]

If people refrain from posting racist comments then they won't be branded racist.

Just say what you mean but please keep it within the forum rules.

I also have no idea what Elvoys is talking about.

 

If people posted racist comments id hope they would be banned.

Unfortunately it seems that being racist is acceptable if aimed at english people.

Unfortunately it seems that branding people racist for expressing their views on racist religious homophocic anti semitic backwards thinking is also acceptable.

Inside out upside down as another poster put it.

It really is double speak.

How apt george orwell seems.

[Mysterion]

Owen Jones was on Sky News paper reviews and lost the plot tonight.

 

Whilst he didn't do himself any favours his point was bang on. This was quite clearly an attack on the LGBT community.

[elvoys]

Genuinely struggling to understand any of Elvoys posts.

Can you in one sentence, succinctly state what point you are making? It will help me and I suspect anyone else that reads the thread.

One sentence please.

Ok, this is the political, ideological and yes, civilisational battle of our times. Bernard Lewis and Samuel Huntington have written at length on this.

 

The rest of the posts are details within this theme. If people think this is overplayed, consider that in the free world, not one person here can draw a picture of the most important historical figure in history and consider how we got there and what the implications of this are.

[elvoys]

Owen Jones was on Sky News paper reviews and lost the plot tonight.

 

Whilst he didn't do himself any favours his point was bang on. This was quite clearly an attack on the LGBT community.

 

 

the guy along with the rest of the useful idiots on the left has been covering for the ideology his whole career. Douglas Murray as a gay man has much more clarity and perspective on this issue.

[Chester™]

the guy along with the rest of the useful idiots on the left has been covering for the ideology his whole career. Douglas Murray as a gay man has much more clarity and perspective on this issue.

You do realise Owen Jones is gay?

[Sydney]

Ok, this is the political, ideological and yes, civilisational battle of our times. Bernard Lewis and Samuel Huntington have written at length on this.

 

The rest of the posts are details within this theme. If people think this is overplayed, consider that in the free world, not one person here can draw a picture of the most important historical figure in history and consider how we got there and what the implications of this are.

I'm sorry, but I still don't understand what point you're trying to make.  I especially don't understand the last sentence.

[AlphonseCapone]

Elvoys is just niblick1874 eh?

[Cade]

This was a lone wolf.

 

He hated gays.

 

He had a legally owned AR-16 assault rifle.

 

He had no contact with ISIL or any other radical islamic terror group.

 

He had no terrorist training.

 

He made a rambling phone call to the police stating allegiance to ISIL just before going out to kill as many gay people as he could.

 

This was a anti-gay hate crime.

 

This was not part of an all out religious war.

[elvoys]

You do realise Owen Jones is gay?

 

 I think I figured that out a while back.

 

As I said, Douglas Murray doesn't need to think too long to realise that an ideology that would have him executed or imprisoned in over half of the countries where it is prevalent is probably something that he should be opposed to.

 

I'm sorry, but I still don't understand what point you're trying to make.  I especially don't understand the last sentence.

 

The implication being that your freedom of  expression is effectively limited by violent theocrats whether they are next door or a thousand miles away yet most still don't this as a real ideological struggle that directly affects us.