Neilsons new long term contract

[boabyarsebiscuit]

was it 6-0 before he told them to sit in against Motherwell?

Motherwell with half their team missing. Just proves the point that Neilson can put out a team to comfortably beat Alloa, Cowdenbeath, etc. but can't hack it against better opposition.

[Wario]

Robbie has done a good job so far. Winning the league by the margin we did last season was a great achievement for a manager in his first job and he has us sitting quite comfortably in 3rd this season.

 

The question mark is over whether he can take the team any further than a regular 3rd place finish. Based on what I've seen this season, I don't think he can.

 

Perhaps I'm being a bit unrealistic and maybe a third place finish is a good achievement each year and level we should aspire to be at. I just think that if we had a manager with a bit more tactical nous, we would be 10-12 points better off this season.

 

I don't think anyone really thinks he's a bad manager, just that we can do better.

[boabyarsebiscuit]

Robbie has done a good job so far. Winning the league by the margin we did last season was a great achievement for a manager in his first job and he has us sitting quite comfortably in 3rd this season.

 

The question mark is over whether he can take the team any further than a regular 3rd place finish. Based on what I've seen this season, I don't think he can.

 

Perhaps I'm being a bit unrealistic and maybe a third place finish is a good achievement each year and level we should aspire to be at. I just think that if we had a manager with a bit more tactical nous, we would be 10-12 points better off this season.

 

I don't think anyone really thinks he's a bad manager, just that we can do better.

Tin hat on. I think he's a bad manager. Can't compete with teams on a similar budget in head-to-heads. Bad in-game management, e.g. confusion yesterday getting his message across on the 5 man midfield change. Throwing away leads on a regular basis. Letting players go on loan we could be using in games right now (e.g. use Gomis / King up at Dingwall, vs. Partick, in a 3 game in 6 day period).

 

I'd grant if you had a team down in the Championship with a better budget than pretty much all your competitors he might make a good choice and would probably get you the playoffs.

[Wario]

Tin hat on. I think he's a bad manager. Can't compete with teams on a similar budget in head-to-heads. Bad in-game management, e.g. confusion yesterday getting his message across on the 5 man midfield change. Throwing away leads on a regular basis. Letting players go on loan we could be using in games right now (e.g. use Gomis / King up at Dingwall, vs. Partick, in a 3 game in 6 day period).

 

I'd grant if you had a team down in the Championship with a better budget than pretty much all your competitors he might make a good choice and would probably get you the playoffs.

Fair enough, maybe people do think he's a bad manager. He must have something though to have as sitting 3rd with only 4 defeats this season. I'd expect a bad manager to have us somewhere in the bottom six at the moment.

[boabyarsebiscuit]

Fair enough, maybe people do think he's a bad manager. He must have something though to have as sitting 3rd with only 4 defeats this season. I'd expect a bad manager to have us somewhere in the bottom six at the moment.

I'd expect a good manager to have us closer to Aberdeen. Being atop a pile of crap with our players, resources and budget doesn't seem that great of an achievement to be honest. I'm not coming at this from an entitlement angle, just basing it on how we have been playing under Neilson this season.

[Quartex]

I remember last season when people said they would be happy with a top 6 finish if we got promoted.

 

Now we are 3rd and people ain't happy.

 

Baffling.

[Pants Shaton]

Tin hat on. I think he's a bad manager. Can't compete with teams on a similar budget in head-to-heads. Bad in-game management, e.g. confusion yesterday getting his message across on the 5 man midfield change. Throwing away leads on a regular basis. Letting players go on loan we could be using in games right now (e.g. use Gomis / King up at Dingwall, vs. Partick, in a 3 game in 6 day period).

 

I'd grant if you had a team down in the Championship with a better budget than pretty much all your competitors he might make a good choice and would probably get you the playoffs.

A lot of what you say is correct. Where I'd differ is in saying he has limited experience and should be given the opportunity to improve over this season and next. He is being supported by an experienced manager, in Levein, and I think this will all come good. If not - he goes.

[boabyarsebiscuit]

I remember last season when people said they would be happy with a top 6 finish if we got promoted.

 

Now we are 3rd and people ain't happy.

 

Baffling.

I'm happy with the League position. It's better than being 11th. However I'm unhappy that we clearly have a manager that will never be capable of getting us up for big games. In League terms this season that is only Celtic and Aberdeen. Next season we'll have Hibs and Rangers back. So that's going to be 16 games of utter frustration and pishness and maybe 7 points out of them. We won't be 3rd next season. If indeed we manage t keep 3rd this season.

 

We all know that we can't spunk all our cash on Rudi Skacel and Roman Bednar types, this is one mistake of the Romanov years we will not be making. But we can get ourselves a decent manager without breaking the bank. Crikey we could even take a "Levein man" in Peter Houston who would be miles better than Neilson.

[boabyarsebiscuit]

A lot of what you say is correct. Where I'd differ is in saying he has limited experience and should be given the opportunity to improve over this season and next. He is being supported by an experienced manager, in Levein, and I think this will all come good. If not - he goes.

I actually hope you're right. I just don't have faith in Robbie Neilson.

[Nookie Bear]

A lot of what you say is correct. Where I'd differ is in saying he has limited experience and should be given the opportunity to improve over this season and next. He is being supported by an experienced manager, in Levein, and I think this will all come good. If not - he goes.

 

He has had 18 months in the job which is longer than many other coaches.

 

He had a lot of time last year to work on his tactics, safe in the knowledge we were going up.

 

He has signed, or been given players, and has the luxury of being able to resist selling players unless we want to.

 

He is being allowed to make a lot of mistakes, has the luxury of an experienced coach as DoF, and yet constantly falls into the same trap.

 

 

This is his low point and the fight back has to start now, because there are many other coaches out there more than capable of stepping in.

[Jambos1983]

The guy is a shitebag. There's no arguments against this

[Section Q]

His tactics were absolutely woeful yesterday, but I don't think his longterm future at the club should be decided on one performance. The guy's still learning, even he admits it. Hate to say it but Stubbs handled the cup tie much better than Robbie, and hope Robbie learns from this.

Shrewd buying, a decent long term strategy for the club, and third place will do for me this season. Thought Cowie was quite solid on his debut. Forced on a lot sooner than expected and held his own. Think we have to calm down and win the replay.

[bringonthesevco]

Although we didn't handle the situation very well, the injury to Djoum cost us the game and the lack of a suitable replacement.

 

Robbie Neilson more than deserves a contract extension FFS.

 

Djoums injury clearly didn't help, however at that stage of the match, a choice between bringing on Souttar to help shore up at the back or bringing on Walker for his first game back - most tactically astute managers would have gone for the shoring up at the back option.

 

However, most would have also avoided brining on the bombscare earlier in the game and simply brought Souttar on to replace Ozturk and left Jordan at LB.

 

I'm not in the binning Robbie yet camp, however, how hard is it to learn lessons ...  If I continued making the same mistakes at work time and time again I'd be in trouble ...

[The Real Maroonblood]

A lot of what you say is correct. Where I'd differ is in saying he has limited experience and should be given the opportunity to improve over this season and next. He is being supported by an experienced manager, in Levein, and I think this will all come good. If not - he goes.

Good points. The problem is if Neilson gets the bullet it puts Levein in a bad light and that would be hard for him to take.

[soonbe110]

His tactics were absolutely woeful yesterday, but I don't think his longterm future at the club should be decided on one performance. The guy's still learning, even he admits it. Hate to say it but Stubbs handled the cup tie much better than Robbie, and hope Robbie learns from this.

Shrewd buying, a decent long term strategy for the club, and third place will do for me this season. Thought Cowie was quite solid on his debut. Forced on a lot sooner than expected and held his own. Think we have to calm down and win the replay.

The morning after and things are a bit clearer. Forced into three substitutions through injury and finishing the game with Nicholson and Pallardo struggling with knocks, Walker just back after two months out and Dauda a passenger for 90 minutes. Not sure what tactics he could employ other than try to see the game out. Cummings goal was a bad to lose, equaliser was a mishit that could have gone anywhere. Had we held on and won 2-1 it would be getting acclaimed as a great rearguard action with so many injuries.

[boabyarsebiscuit]

Good points. The problem is if Neilson gets the bullet it puts Levein in a bad light and that would be hard for him to take.

Yep, this is the problem of the Budge/Levein/Neilson triumvirate. It reflects badly on the top two if Neilson is punted. However out of the three, Neilson is the most expendable. If we're not punting Neilson due to regime politics, then I really do despair. Learning curve for Ann Budge here too.

[Section Q]

The morning after and things are a bit clearer. Forced into three substitutions through injury and finishing the game with Nicholson and Pallardo struggling with knocks, Walker just back after two months out and Dauda a passenger for 90 minutes. Not sure what tactics he could employ other than try to see the game out. Cummings goal was a bad to lose, equaliser was a mishit that could have gone anywhere. Had we held on and won 2-1 it would be getting acclaimed as a great rearguard action with so many injuries.

I didn't see any rearguard action at all. Have to agree with forced injuries though.

[McCrae]

The morning after and things are a bit clearer. Forced into three substitutions through injury and finishing the game with Nicholson and Pallardo struggling with knocks, Walker just back after two months out and Dauda a passenger for 90 minutes. Not sure what tactics he could employ other than try to see the game out. Cummings goal was a bad to lose, equaliser was a mishit that could have gone anywhere. Had we held on and won 2-1 it would be getting acclaimed as a great rearguard action with so many injuries.

Some of this was preventable..... Was it smart to start Nicholson who has been strggling with injury? Why wasn't Juanma givien a starting slot.

 

A combination of poor team selection choices and madness in the transfer window are the reason why we struggled.

[Shooter McGavin]

Think his idea yesterday was to play like how we did against Aberdeen, but it backfired horrible. I still have faith in Robbie though.

[The Real Maroonblood]

Yep, this is the problem of the Budge/Levein/Neilson triumvirate. It reflects badly on the top two if Neilson is punted. However out of the three, Neilson is the most expendable. If we're not punting Neilson due to regime politics, then I really do despair. Learning curve for Ann Budge here too.

This is the danger of promoting coaches within.

[Pants Shaton]

From Djoum's post-match interview:

 

?In the second half, we sat in too much. We should play on the front foot, and press them higher up the park instead of allowing them to attack. I don?t know why we did this.

 

?We weren?t told to play like this by the coaches,? he continued. ?I don?t know why the team decided to do this, we play better when we press high up the park.?

[Jodami]

He has had 18 months in the job which is longer than many other coaches.

 

He had a lot of time last year to work on his tactics, safe in the knowledge we were going up.

 

He has signed, or been given players, and has the luxury of being able to resist selling players unless we want to.

 

He is being allowed to make a lot of mistakes, has the luxury of an experienced coach as DoF, and yet constantly falls into the same trap.

 

 

This is his low point and the fight back has to start now, because there are many other coaches out there more than capable of stepping in.

Give us 3 other coaches you would take if there is such a large pool.

[Jambos1983]

Think his idea yesterday was to play like how we did against Aberdeen, but it backfired horrible. I still have faith in Robbie though.

The players completely missed the memo then. There was nothing remotely close to the aberdeen tactics yesterday

[BRAVEHEART1874]

I Like Neilson and always said we should finish 3rd with the team we have - sorry should that have a h at the front young team

Yes the game was crying out for Juanma or walker coming on in / earlier in the second half and looked like we were holding out but it did nearly work you know Stubbs.

Hopefully lessons will be learned from the game though as there certainly wasn't much closing down second half or holding up play with Duada.

[Dr Ian Malcolm]

From Djoum's post-match interview:

 

?In the second half, we sat in too much. We should play on the front foot, and press them higher up the park instead of allowing them to attack. I don?t know why we did this.

 

?We weren?t told to play like this by the coaches,? he continued. ?I don?t know why the team decided to do this, we play better when we press high up the park.?

If the players aren't doing what's asked of them then that's hardly Robbie's fault.

 

Too often the immediate reaction is blame Neilson and assume that's how he wanted us to play. Clearly not the case, and the players need to take a lot of responsibility for what happened.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[soonbe110]

Tin hat on. I think he's a bad manager. Can't compete with teams on a similar budget in head-to-heads. Bad in-game management, e.g. confusion yesterday getting his message across on the 5 man midfield change. Throwing away leads on a regular basis. Letting players go on loan we could be using in games right now (e.g. use Gomis / King up at Dingwall, vs. Partick, in a 3 game in 6 day period).I'd grant if you had a team down in the Championship with a better budget than pretty much all your competitors he might make a good choice and would probably get you the playoffs.

We all know you don't rate him so maybe you can just let it go now. Entitled to your opinion like everyone else but getting monotonous and so predictable regardless of performances and results. Ok, you just hate the guy. We get it. Move on.

[soonbe110]

Some of this was preventable..... Was it smart to start Nicholson who has been strggling with injury? Why wasn't Juanma givien a starting slot.

A combination of poor team selection choices and madness in the transfer window are the reason why we struggled.

Nicholson looked fine to me until he was kicked again in same spot. Juanma is a red card waiting to happen in a derby.

[jambali]

Think his idea yesterday was to play like how we did against Aberdeen, but it backfired horrible. I still have faith in Robbie though.

The problem was we didn't! We need to be in teams faces all the time. That means 90 mins effort.

Mainly, though it needs practice & committment

[soonbe110]

From Djoum's post-match interview:

?In the second half, we sat in too much. We should play on the front foot, and press them higher up the park instead of allowing them to attack. I don?t know why we did this.

?We weren?t told to play like this by the coaches,? he continued. ?I don?t know why the team decided to do this, we play better when we press high up the park.?

Says it all. Reinforced by Robbie urging them to push out several times in second half. Lots on here won't believe Djoum though.

[jambali]

From Djoum's post-match interview:

 

?In the second half, we sat in too much. We should play on the front foot, and press them higher up the park instead of allowing them to attack. I don?t know why we did this.

 

?We weren?t told to play like this by the coaches,? he continued. ?I don?t know why the team decided to do this, we play better when we press high up the park.?

Djoum gets it. I don't think our management are committed to this

[amadjambo]

I remember last season when people said they would be happy with a top 6 finish if we got promoted.

 

Now we are 3rd and people ain't happy.

 

Baffling.

Are you happy?

 

Personally I am disappointed as we are seriously underperforming based on the talent we have available. And 2nd half Sunday was a disgrace.

[Francis Albert]

Says it all. Reinforced by Robbie urging them to push out several times in second half. Lots on here won't believe Djoum though.

So why did the players ignore Robbie's urgings? And the game plan he presumably set out for the players before the game and at HT, whatever it was?

 

And "pushing out several times" was hardly an adequate response to how the game was going. We needed a completely different approach.

[The Real Maroonblood]

Says it all. Reinforced by Robbie urging them to push out several times in second half. Lots on here won't believe Djoum though.

So will Robbie discipline them for ignoring his instructions?

[Jodami]

Are you happy?

 

Personally I am disappointed as we are seriously underperforming based on the talent we have available. And 2nd half Sunday was a disgrace.

I think that like quite a few other fans you may be overestimating the talent at our disposal. Whether this is because we easily took care of very ordinary opposition last season I don't know but I would say our league position is reflective of our squad quality.

[Shooter McGavin]

The problem was we didn't! We need to be in teams faces all the time. That means 90 mins effort.

Mainly, though it needs practice & committment

Exactly, we were far too passive against Hibs, we gave them time and space whereas against Aberdeen we hounded them the whole match and didn't allow them time or space.

[soonbe110]

So why did the players ignore Robbie's urgings? And the game plan he presumably set out for the players before the game and at HT, whatever it was?And "pushing out several times" was hardly an adequate response to how the game was going. We needed a completely different approach.

As previously mentioned by a number on here he didn't have any real options open to him to change it given injuries. Re players not doing what they are told it happens all the time with all teams. Once players cross the line they tend to forget what they have been told. Coaches can only set them up, give them info on the opposition, build confidence in their ability and then let them get on with it. How much coaching do you think Messi, Neymar and Suarez get during a game?

[Getintaethem]

There were a lot of factors in the game yesterday that affected the way we played in the second half, injuries being the main one. Nicholson and Pallardo were struggling the last half hour and this contributed to us not pressing the ball enough. Douda's lack of any sort of contribution upfront also meant Hibs had time to pick their passes. I'm pretty sure Robbie would have liked to put Juanma on but his hands were tied after having to make two forced substitutions. Alexander's kicking also put us under pressure time after time, due to its lack of direction and the lack of challenges from our forwards.

 

The manager has to carry the can for us letting the game slip away, but I'm not anywhere near thinking we should replace him. Sometimes I think his measured, understated style rubs off on the players and he could maybe do with an assistant that can get them fired up for the big games. I also think that the squad is perhaps three of four players light, but the whole ethos of the club is to develop youngsters and I suspect this is the main reason for the small squad, it allows more game time for the younger players.

 

Robbie and the players have a chance to put things right next week, I think they will be determined to do just that.

[CollyWolly]

His job should not and won't be decided on the out come of a cup game .

But I don't think managers should get new contracts halfway into a season .

If he loses that cup tie it will be a major black mark against him which will remain with him until such time as he delivers a trophy. Utterly inexcusable what happened on Sunday

We should not even be thinking about extending his contract in a long term way until he proves capable and worthy. IMO in the short time he has had in the top league he hasn't done that yet. Not even close.

[i8hibsh]

23 games into our season and I swear I could not tell you what style of football we play.  It really does change every single game.  I know what style suits us best (attacking, playing down the wings) but just never sure what style we will play next.  Robbie wants to be Fergie (nothing wrong to aim high) but he is not even John Hughes.  The fans and clearly the players just can't keep up with the constant tweeking.  I'm actually dreading Ross County on Wed and the less said about the Hibs replay the better.

[CollyWolly]

Says it all. Reinforced by Robbie urging them to push out several times in second half. Lots on here won't believe Djoum though.

I believe him alright. I just think its dreadful management for your half time instructions to be ignored for the full 45 minutes. Has he got the ear and the confidence of the dressing room or not ?

[Seymour M Hersh]

If he loses that cup tie it will be a major black mark against him which will remain with him until such time as he delivers a trophy. Utterly inexcusable what happened on Sunday

We should not even be thinking about extending his contract in a long term way until he proves capable and worthy. IMO in the short time he has had in the top league he hasn't done that yet. Not even close.

 

I wonder how you view Alex MacDonald's time as our manager?

[Seymour M Hersh]

I believe him alright. I just think its dreadful management for your half time instructions to be ignored for the full 45 minutes. Has he got the ear and the confidence of the dressing room or not ?

 

Are you aware that Stevie Crawford delivers the half time talk?

[jambo1975]

Well i think the issue with us sitting back was when he chose to put Oshaniwa on and moved Mcghee when he had the option to put Souttar on in a straight swap.  I would rather have had a relativly experiance SPFL defended, no matter how young, in defence instead of No 17.

The longer Robbie goes giving the guy a chance the more i do being to doubt him

[CollyWolly]

I wonder how you view Alex MacDonald's time as our manager?

With sadness that, ultimately, he didn't win a trophy. His efforts certainly deserved it.

 

However, on the other hand he is the man who blew the double.

 

Not sure what your point is really ?

[CollyWolly]

Are you aware that Stevie Crawford delivers the half time talk?

As in he does it off his own back without Neilson's input. No I don't believe that.

 

There are two scenarios here, none of them very palatable.

 

1. The coaching team got it horribly wrong at half time and instructed a game management plan to coast that was flawed from the start and disastrously flawed the minute Hibs pulled one back. It was a derby cup tie FFS and they were always going to have a good go in the second half. Instead of countering that, we invited and encouraged it.

 

2. The coaching team gave instructions which didn't involve simply standing off and shutting the doors and fire fighting when it got dangerous and they were ignored.

[Nookie Bear]

23 games into our season and I swear I could not tell you what style of football we play.  It really does change every single game.  I know what style suits us best (attacking, playing down the wings) but just never sure what style we will play next.  Robbie wants to be Fergie (nothing wrong to aim high) but he is not even John Hughes.  The fans and clearly the players just can't keep up with the constant tweeking.  I'm actually dreading Ross County on Wed and the less said about the Hibs replay the better.

 

Spot on.

 

Are we direct? Fast-paced counter-attacking? Possession-based? Slow tempo? 

[i8hibsh]

Spot on.

 

Are we direct? Fast-paced counter-attacking? Possession-based? Slow tempo? 

 

 

Hibs do not have as good a squad as ours but they have a system and stick to it.

[Nookie Bear]

Hibs do not have as good a squad as ours but they have a system and stick to it.

 

As do Aberdeen and St Johnstone etc. Their squads are nothing spectacular, but play to their strengths.

 

Robbie needs to stop watching Serie A and thinking that style of play will work in Scotland.

[Rudolf's Mate]

I remember last season when people said they would be happy with a top 6 finish if we got promoted.

 

Now we are 3rd and people ain't happy.

 

Baffling.

 

Yet you're agreeing on other threads that we're carrying far too much baggage suggesting a lot of players aren't good enough.

 

Baffling!

[amadjambo]

I think that like quite a few other fans you may be overestimating the talent at our disposal. Whether this is because we easily took care of very ordinary opposition last season I don't know but I would say our league position is reflective of our squad quality.

I'm not overestimating our talent. I agree,3rd place is probably where we should be, but we should be winning more games and be closer to Aberdeen. Our away performances have been pretty poor, particularly first half of games. Our discipline is also shocking and has been for ages without much noticeable improvement.

 

A wee but more belief and adventure and we'd have turned a few draws into victories, and won convincingly on Sunday.