US Elections 2016

[niblick1874]

Any answer as to who the Dr was, and why his show was cancelled?

 

[Justin Z]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc

[Watt-Zeefuik]

For a non-deranged take on the incident:

 

http://www.snopes.com/2016/08/18/dr-drew-hillary-clinton-health/

[elvoys]

For a non-deranged take on the incident:

 

http://www.snopes.com/2016/08/18/dr-drew-hillary-clinton-health/

 

What I don't get though is that the North Korean stuff like Google deleting the  'Hillary Health' search or staging a talk show routine only feeds the beast. Surely they can see that? Even the Washington Post has the 'non-story story' as their most read article. 

 

This is all playing at Trumps game. I saw some of his Atlantic City stuff in the 80s this morning which was staggering to say the least.  He's so unabashed and has lowered the bar so low in what's acceptable in the campaign that you can't really lay a glove on him.  She should stop playing defence  and say I'm  going to focus on the big social issues - middle class growth, what I can do for minorities etc   and just stick relentlessly to the positive message imo.

[Craig Gordons Gloves]

What I don't get though is that the North Korean stuff like Google deleting the  'Hillary Health' search or staging a talk show routine only feeds the beast. Surely they can see that? Even the Washington Post has the 'non-story story' as their most read article. 

 

This is all playing at Trumps game. I saw some of his Atlantic City stuff in the 80s this morning which was staggering to say the least.  He's so unabashed and has lowered the bar so low in what's acceptable in the campaign that you can't really lay a glove on him.  She should stop playing defence  and say I'm  going to focus on the big social issues - middle class growth, what I can do for minorities etc   and just stick relentlessly to the positive message imo.

 

 

I would agree, But sadly, that's what the candidates believe people want.  Arguments about who is the bigger crook/liar as opposed to "here are my policies about growing the country and taking care of the social aspects of our democracy.  I just finished reading this.  Quite an interesting article.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/07/world/americas/united-states-trump-clinton.html?_r=0

Edited September 6, 2016 by Craig Gordons Gloves

[Watt-Zeefuik]

What I don't get though is that the North Korean stuff like Google deleting the  'Hillary Health' search or staging a talk show routine only feeds the beast. Surely they can see that? Even the Washington Post has the 'non-story story' as their most read article. 

 

This is all playing at Trumps game. I saw some of his Atlantic City stuff in the 80s this morning which was staggering to say the least.  He's so unabashed and has lowered the bar so low in what's acceptable in the campaign that you can't really lay a glove on him.  She should stop playing defence  and say I'm  going to focus on the big social issues - middle class growth, what I can do for minorities etc   and just stick relentlessly to the positive message imo.

 

As I mentioned earlier, Labor Day (yesterday) is traditionally the unofficial kick-off of the campaign.  What's happened up until now has been prep work and warm up laps.  The gloves (not you, CGG) should really come off now.  The ad blitzes in swing states and big campaign events are about to start happening for real.

 

Clinton has an enormous war chest, and it's about to get truly opened wide for the first time.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Dallas Morning News endorses Clinton, the first time since WWII they've endorsed a Democrat.

 

Richmond Times-Dispatch endorsed Johnson earlier this week, the first time since the Vietnam War they've not endorsed the Republican candidate.

 

These endorsements are coming in incredibly early compared to other election cycles, FWIW.

[Peebo]

Dallas Morning News endorses Clinton, the first time since WWII they've endorsed a Democrat.Richmond Times-Dispatch endorsed Johnson earlier this week, the first time since the Vietnam War they've not endorsed the Republican candidate.These endorsements are coming in incredibly early compared to other election cycles, FWIW.

Worth a lot, in my opinion. Clarifies for anyone who is still in any doubt as to just how unelectable the Republican candidate is.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Worth a lot, in my opinion. Clarifies for anyone who is still in any doubt as to just how unelectable the Republican candidate is.

 

I hadn't read the actual editorial this morning when I posted this.  It's pretty strong.

 

http://beta.dallasnews.com/opinion/editorials/2016/09/07/recommend-hillary-clinton-us-president

 

Relevant bit for the more unfortunate parts of this thread:

 

 

Clinton has remained dogged by questions about her honesty, her willingness to shade the truth. Her use of a private email server while secretary of state is a clear example of poor judgment. She should take additional steps to divorce allegations of influence peddling from the Clinton Foundation. And she must be more forthright with the public by holding news conferences, as opposed to relying on a shield of carefully scripted appearances and speeches.

Those are real shortcomings. But they pale in comparison to the litany of evils some opponents accuse her of. Treason? Murder? Her being cleared of crimes by investigation after investigation has no effect on these political hyenas; they refuse to see anything but conspiracies and cover-ups.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Johnson must be a real candidate now, because he just had his first real, "oh dear" moment of the campaign.

 

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/gary-johnson-asks-what-is-aleppo

 

In an interview he didn't know where or what Aleppo was, and when filled in, his answer was pretty asinine.

 

I'm honestly less concerned about him saying "what's a leppo?" than the fact that he wants to "join hands with Russia."  It's not quite Trump talking about how much he admires Putin, but it's not a good look.

[Norm]

Johnson must be a real candidate now, because he just had his first real, "oh dear" moment of the campaign.

 

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/gary-johnson-asks-what-is-aleppo

 

In an interview he didn't know where or what Aleppo was, and when filled in, his answer was pretty asinine.

 

I'm honestly less concerned about him saying "what's a leppo?" than the fact that he wants to "join hands with Russia." It's not quite Trump talking about how much he admires Putin, but it's not a good look.

Ooops.

 

I'd have went with "I thought you were saying "a leppo", not "Aleppo"".

[niblick1874]

I am aware of Dr Oz, and Doctor Phil, I saw both on TV today,  it has been a while since I seen Dr Finlay or Dr Kildare, thats about all the TV doctors I know.

Go back and have another look Bob. You jumped right in there with the usual bunch of trolls. The only reason they come on threads such as this is to attack those that post what they don't want others to see .If you don't believe me, go look for yourself.

 

They can't stop me posting what I do, nor are they interested in, or able to, discuss the subject so they go after the poster and end up looking like a bunch of ten year olds. All any of them had to do, including you, was type in doctor loses job over Clinton (I suspect they did but carried on regardless) or any variation and the first thing that would have popped up would have given you and everyone else the answer, along with more info, however, as you can see, that was not what they were about.

 

Did they think I had made it up?

 

Did you think I had made it up?  

 

When I post a link to reiterate my point, I try to find it on MSM because there are many that will mistrust anything else (wrongly), but this has become very difficult of late (to put it mildly) for reasons I have already mentioned. 

 

This was the point I was making with the Geraldo link. It could have been Coco the Clown instead of Geraldo being the only one pointing out the facts and asking why it was not headline news across the MSM but you chose to ignore what was said and instead judged the cover.

 

Here is the clip again. To understand what he is alluding to is very important, and to understand why it is so important, you have to take a great deal of time to look into the whole thing, which leads from one thing to another and another, so on and so forth. You can't skim this shit.

 

 

You are better than this Bob. Don't be led by the trolls.     

[Watt-Zeefuik]

To be fair to Johnson, this is a very good follow-up.

 

I have a lot of time for people able to admit when they screwed up and identify what they'll do differently.

 

 

(Apologies for the giant image -- don't know how to scale it easily.)

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Niblick thinks we haven't engaged him on the issues.

 

Let's do this one more time, just for shits and giggles.  The TV personality ended up being Dr. Drew, a guy who used to be famous for giving bad sex advice on MTV.  It might as well have been Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman.  The medical records he was referring to turned out to be no kind of big reveal (because, again, that would have been incredibly illegal), but rather him referring to the obviously faked medical records that have been circulating on the internet for a year and which had already been widely debunked.  

 

All of this was in the Snopes article I posted.  (Snopes is not the MSM, in case you're confused again.)

 

We good here?

[niblick1874]

Niblick thinks we haven't engaged him on the issues.

 

Let's do this one more time, just for shits and giggles.  The TV personality ended up being Dr. Drew, a guy who used to be famous for giving bad sex advice on MTV.  It might as well have been Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman.  The medical records he was referring to turned out to be no kind of big reveal (because, again, that would have been incredibly illegal), but rather him referring to the obviously faked medical records that have been circulating on the internet for a year and which had already been widely debunked.  

 

All of this was in the Snopes article I posted.  (Snopes is not the MSM, in case you're confused again.)

 

We good here?

Did you read your own link? It explains that the medical records that he went by were genuine.

 

Pinsky has never examined Clinton himself, however. The "medical record" he says he evaluated is a two-page health care statement signed by the candidate's personal physician, Dr. Lisa Bardack, on 28 July 2015. The document summarized Clinton's current medical conditions ("hypothyroidism and seasonal pollen allergies"), medical history ("notable for a deep vein thrombosis in 1998 and in 2009, an elbow fracture in 2009, and a concussion in 2012"), and pronounced her "in excellent physical condition and fit to serve as President of the United States."

 

Here is another exert from another Snopes article. Click on the link and it will show you the genuine one that Dr. Drew went by.

 

The "leaked" documents seemed rather obvious forgeries, as they didn't resemble anything like standard medical records, they weren't printed on any form of letterhead, nor did they include the doctor's signature (as if whoever crafted then hadn't actually seen the genuine letter from Dr. Bardack and thus had nothing to imitate). They also exhibited some obvious formatting differences from the official letter issued by Dr. Bardack: In the "leaked" documents Bardack is listed as "Chairman of the Department of Medicine, Mount Kisco Medical Group," while the letterhead of the verified document references her as "Chair of Internal Medicine[,] Diplomate of the American Board of Internal Medicine." The "leaked" documents also don't look like medical records, but rather like a report provided for purposes extrinsic to a standard medical charting (with no indication to whom or for what purpose such a report might have been provided).

 

Here is Dr. Drew's Wikipedia page so as others can judge for themselves as opposed to your attempt at deflection.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drew_Pinsky

 

And finally. Your side stepping of the fact he was fired, which was the point I was making, while throwing mud and distractions is par for the course where you are concerned. 

Edited September 8, 2016 by niblick1874

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Okay, first off, my bad. I was conflating the episode last year when he got punked by the fake records and this year when he did diagnosis-by-other-doctors-letter.  Mia culpa, I got that one wrong. Important point, though -- an open letter from a doctor is very much not the same as medical records, which is a source of a lot of the confusion and of the howls of laughter you're getting on this one.

 

Second, I suppose this is one instance of your "bizarre coincidences" where I could actually get a bit bothered by this kind of thing, but I hate both 24 hour cable TV news and Pinsky's brand of "reality" TV with such a passion that I have an extremely hard time getting worked up about one of the shock jocks on there getting fired.  That's not intended to be slinging mud -- it's because Pinsky getting fired is like me trying to get worked up about Willie Collum getting fired as an SPFL ref because he said something bad about Sturgeon.  It's hard to get past, "good riddance."

 

Here's an NYT profile of Dr. Drew from 2009: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/03/magazine/03Pinsky-t.html?_r=0

 

 

Pinsky isn?t always so reticent. In just the past year, he has speculated freely in public (almost all of these statements are available on RadarOnline) about possible signs of mental illness in Joaquin Phoenix?s ?Letterman? appearance, diagnosed borderline personality disorder in the Octomom (without ever examining her), warned the president about the risks of disappointing the public, pronounced Michael Jackson?s personal physician negligent, expressed concern about Miley Cyrus?s lack of a normal developmental process during her adolescence and weighed in on Brad Pitt?s marijuana use and Michael Phelps?s bong scandal. His comments about Tom Cruise?s belief in Scientology and Lindsay Lohan?s drug abuse prompted Cruise?s lawyer to compare him to Goebbels and Lohan (to whom ?Rehab? producers reportedly offered six figures if she would join their cast) to Tweet: ?I thought REAL doctors talked to patients in offices behind closed doors.? It?s a sentiment echoed by some members in Pinsky?s field.

 

Did the Clintonistas call CNN to get him fired?  Maybe.  Maybe CNN was tired of being embarrassed by this crap (although given their decade-long descent into irrelevance and trivia I would think they would be way beyond that).  

 

However, while you're crying over nobody listening to you, let's go back to what you originally said.

 

"One of the best known doctor in America with his own TV show, when asked to comment on Clintons health and allay fears about it, told them that he had a look (including medical records) and was very worried about her health."

 

Since Pinsky is basically a has-been reality TV star who hadn't actually seen the medical records, can you see your statement, despite being based on real information, was exaggerated to the point of falsehood, and thus the subject of internet board mockery?

 

Now maybe think about applying that logic to the way you stretch the Clinton's hard-nosed political tactics, which are famous and cause resentment among even Democrats, and the coziness of the Clintons to the Davos set, and your assertions that she's some dark globalist conspirator who has people who once said something bad about her murdered?

 

Because that's why we can't have nice conversations around her.

[Norm]

To be fair to Johnson, this is a very good follow-up.

 

I have a lot of time for people able to admit when they screwed up and identify what they'll do differently.

 

 

(Apologies for the giant image -- don't know how to scale it easily.)

Not far off what I said he should've done. Nice one Gaz!

[niblick1874]

Okay, first off, my bad. I was conflating the episode last year when he got punked by the fake records and this year when he did diagnosis-by-other-doctors-letter.  Mia culpa, I got that one wrong. Important point, though -- an open letter from a doctor is very much not the same as medical records, which is a source of a lot of the confusion and of the howls of laughter you're getting on this one.

 

Second, I suppose this is one instance of your "bizarre coincidences" where I could actually get a bit bothered by this kind of thing, but I hate both 24 hour cable TV news and Pinsky's brand of "reality" TV with such a passion that I have an extremely hard time getting worked up about one of the shock jocks on there getting fired.  That's not intended to be slinging mud -- it's because Pinsky getting fired is like me trying to get worked up about Willie Collum getting fired as an SPFL ref because he said something bad about Sturgeon.  It's hard to get past, "good riddance."

 

Here's an NYT profile of Dr. Drew from 2009: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/03/magazine/03Pinsky-t.html?_r=0

 

 

Did the Clintonistas call CNN to get him fired?  Maybe.  Maybe CNN was tired of being embarrassed by this crap (although given their decade-long descent into irrelevance and trivia I would think they would be way beyond that).  

 

However, while you're crying over nobody listening to you, let's go back to what you originally said.

 

"One of the best known doctor in America with his own TV show, when asked to comment on Clintons health and allay fears about it, told them that he had a look (including medical records) and was very worried about her health."

 

Since Pinsky is basically a has-been reality TV star who hadn't actually seen the medical records, can you see your statement, despite being based on real information, was exaggerated to the point of falsehood, and thus the subject of internet board mockery?

 

Now maybe think about applying that logic to the way you stretch the Clinton's hard-nosed political tactics, which are famous and cause resentment among even Democrats, and the coziness of the Clintons to the Davos set, and your assertions that she's some dark globalist conspirator who has people who once said something bad about her murdered?

 

Because that's why we can't have nice conversations around her.

I am not crying over nobody listening to me. I am pointing out your and others gunk, bull, and trolling. 

[Sharpie]

Go back and have another look Bob. You jumped right in there with the usual bunch of trolls. The only reason they come on threads such as this is to attack those that post what they don't want others to see .If you don't believe me, go look for yourself.

 

They can't stop me posting what I do, nor are they interested in, or able to, discuss the subject so they go after the poster and end up looking like a bunch of ten year olds. All any of them had to do, including you, was type in doctor loses job over Clinton (I suspect they did but carried on regardless) or any variation and the first thing that would have popped up would have given you and everyone else the answer, along with more info, however, as you can see, that was not what they were about.

 

Did they think I had made it up?

 

Did you think I had made it up?  

 

When I post a link to reiterate my point, I try to find it on MSM because there are many that will mistrust anything else (wrongly), but this has become very difficult of late (to put it mildly) for reasons I have already mentioned. 

 

This was the point I was making with the Geraldo link. It could have been Coco the Clown instead of Geraldo being the only one pointing out the facts and asking why it was not headline news across the MSM but you chose to ignore what was said and instead judged the cover.

 

Here is the clip again. To understand what he is alluding to is very important, and to understand why it is so important, you have to take a great deal of time to look into the whole thing, which leads from one thing to another and another, so on and so forth. You can't skim this shit.

 

 

You are better than this Bob. Don't be led by the trolls.     

 

As long as you quote from some of the in my opinion less dependable sources such as Geraldo, and assign a statement to a doctor you do not name I on my own initiative will comment, two things you should learn, and this is from a reliable source, me, 1). I am not governed by the statements of any individual, group, or other outside influence, I have my own mind and am perfectly content using it. 2). I am too old, too experienced, and too impatient to be subjected to a personal assesment as to what I am better than and to be accused of being led by trolls. You have not reached a position in my life where you can appraise good or bad anything I do. You are free to comment, disagree, or in any other way say what you have to say to me, but cease forthwith appraisal, or allegations.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Given that Roosevelt died in office, why would anyone give a flying one about Clinton's health in the first place, mentalists excepted of course?

[Watt-Zeefuik]

I am not crying over nobody listening to me. I am pointing out your and others gunk, bull, and trolling. 

 

Trolling is against board rules.  If you think I'm trolling, report me. Otherwise, don't accuse me of it.

 

You seem to believe people either must obsess over the same trivia you obsess over, or else we're somehow either evil puppetmasters or in the puppetmasters' control.  That makes it impossible to have a conversation with you in good faith.  It also makes you come off as an incredibly rude arsehole, but that's secondary.

[Sidelight]

 

You seem to believe people either must obsess over the same trivia you obsess over, or else we're somehow either evil puppetmasters or in the puppetmasters' control.  

 

You would I am sure consider me a political pygmy with respect to American politics.

However over the past months I have absorbed myself in the fascinating race to the WH.

And as a result of my studies, I have decided to vote for Alex Jones.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Given that Roosevelt died in office, why would anyone give a flying one about Clinton's health in the first place, mentalists excepted of course?

 

I was speaking to an American doctor in Edinburgh for a conference and he said she probably has health issues. But (unfortunately) the same ones you'd expect from most any 70 year old woman. More interestingly he said the woman who heads up the Clinton foundation (or part of it anyway) is Bill's current bit on the side and is in the role because of that (massive salary included). Seems the Clintons are just as bad if not worse than Trump. 

[elvoys]

Hillary 9/11 interview on her experiences and role as NY Senator in the aftermath.  Under-reported over the years and she comes across very well. Big contrast with Trump and his hollow boasting, 'I was the no-Iraq guy'.

[Ibrahim Tall]

Hilary basically rushed away from a 9/11 memorial ceremony after fainting and losing a shoe apparently.

 

That'll help stop those medical rumours...

[elvoys]

Hilary basically rushed away from a 9/11 memorial ceremony after fainting and losing a shoe apparently.

 

That'll help stop those medical rumours...

She is all over the place in the video released. Worse than ones where being supported up stairs. Forgive the leap but what would be the process if she pulled out? The idea of trump by default is tragi - comic.

[elvoys]

Hilary basically rushed away from a 9/11 memorial ceremony after fainting and losing a shoe apparently.

 

That'll help stop those medical rumours...

She is all over the place in the video released. Worse than ones where being supported up stairs. Forgive the leap but what would be the process if she pulled out? The idea of trump by default is tragi - comic.

[Sharpie]

Just watched that video, whatever the problem not serious or what, the graphics of a future President being held and assisted after near collapse are very discomforting. They say that she was overheated and was released early from hospital, but still not good. The problem I see is whether all the stories about her health are fantasy, sensationalism  or even true, this picture provides the necessary fuel for the rumormongers and believers of sensationalist reporting.

 

Without a doubt this is the most insane Presidential contest I have ever seen, in fact almost goes as the most insane leadership contest viewed.

 

I am not American, but have many American friends of both political stripes, and I really feel sorry for them, they deserve better.

[jake]

And, right on cue.....

 

 

Lol

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Yeah, this isn't going to help the health stories.

 

https://www.buzzfeed.com/emaoconnor/clinton-leaves-911-memorial-early?utm_term=.mdAxRlOrw#.an39W3ymD

 

For what it's worth, it's been incredibly, unseasonably hot in the US this week.  High of 97 in Richmond yesterday.  She was wearing a dark blue wool suit, so the overheating line makes total sense.

 

I don't think it's a major issue, but some people do, and I wish her and her staff would be a bit less cavalier about all of this.

[Bridge of Djoum]

Hilary basically rushed away from a 9/11 memorial ceremony after fainting and losing a shoe apparently.

 

That'll help stop those medical rumours...

90 degrees here today, and humid. Most 70 year old's would struggle.

[Ibrahim Tall]

90 degrees here today, and humid. Most 70 year old's would struggle.

That itself is part of the issue though isn't it? Retirement age in the US is what, 67? Yet for the most critically important and high pressure job in the country the US somehow now has a choice of two people beyond that age and one of those candidates after having various rumours spread about their poor health(be they true or false) has just been caught on camera being unable to stand by herself at a public event.

In a country and a generation where image is everything it's not a particularly strong image to send out either domestically with an election coming or to 'rivals' abroad.

[Peebo]

That itself is part of the issue though isn't it? Retirement age in the US is what, 67? Yet for the most critically important and high pressure job in the country the US somehow now has a choice of two people beyond that age and one of those candidates after having various rumours spread about their poor health(be they true or false) has just been caught on camera being unable to stand by herself at a public event.

In a country and a generation where image is everything it's not a particularly strong image to send out either domestically with an election coming or to 'rivals' abroad.

The alternative image is even worse!

[Bridge of Djoum]

That itself is part of the issue though isn't it? Retirement age in the US is what, 67? Yet for the most critically important and high pressure job in the country the US somehow now has a choice of two people beyond that age and one of those candidates after having various rumours spread about their poor health(be they true or false) has just been caught on camera being unable to stand by herself at a public event.

In a country and a generation where image is everything it's not a particularly strong image to send out either domestically with an election coming or to 'rivals' abroad.

You make a good point.

[Rab87]

Looked pretty grim. She didn't even put her hands out when she began to fall.

[Sidelight]

Yeah, this isn't going to help the health stories.

 

https://www.buzzfeed.com/emaoconnor/clinton-leaves-911-memorial-early?utm_term=.mdAxRlOrw#.an39W3ymD

 

For what it's worth, it's been incredibly, unseasonably hot in the US this week.  High of 97 in Richmond yesterday.  She was wearing a dark blue wool suit, so the overheating line makes total sense.

 

I don't think it's a major issue, but some people do, and I wish her and her staff would be a bit less cavalier about all of this.

 

I would be the first to admit that my viewing and reading of the presidential campaign is like that of a dim reflection in a mirror.

However I don?t think you have to be a conspiracy theorist to carry the opinion that Clinton is quite unwell.

I wish her no distress, but I do find it alarming and interesting that the selectors for president are desperately trying to keep the Hillary wheels on the bus.

It seems that you have a bias for Clinton, for me, I suffer from a clear case of ignorance.

Be honest with me. What is really going on?

 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

 

You would I am sure consider me a political pygmy with respect to American politics.

However over the past months I have absorbed myself in the fascinating race to the WH.

And as a result of my studies, I have decided to vote for Alex Jones.

 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

 

I would be the first to admit that my viewing and reading of the presidential campaign is like that of a dim reflection in a mirror.

However I don?t think you have to be a conspiracy theorist to carry the opinion that Clinton is quite unwell.

I wish her no distress, but I do find it alarming and interesting that the selectors for president are desperately trying to keep the Hillary wheels on the bus.

It seems that you have a bias for Clinton, for me, I suffer from a clear case of ignorance.

Be honest with me. What is really going on? 

 

I have no insider information, I'm just reading the tea leaves like anyone else.  If I have any insight, it's because I've been following politics since before I was 10 (I was a weird child) and you start to see some trends over time.

 

For my partiality to Clinton, I am a good bit to the left of her politically, but I'm also ultimately a political pragmatist.  The US political system is an unwieldy and ultimately lower-case-c conservative apparatus.  You don't get it to change quickly, so the best you hope for every four years is someone to move the needle in your direction a bit.  I've mentioned this elsewhere, but in my lifetime (I'm 40), the first Clinton administration was the first time I got to witness the Democratic party actually stanching the bleeding and halting the implosion of the party.  He was more centrist on a lot of things (the crime bill, welfare reform, foreign trade policy, financial regulation) than I'd like, but on multiple environmental issues, the minimum wage, federal judges, and a lot of other issues, he seemed like a gasp of air for a drowning party.  I was absolutely furious with Clinton for her Iraq War vote at the time and it kept me firmly out of her camp in the '08 primaries, but she was a very good Secretary of State and impressed me with how she handled the job.

 

Now, as to her health.  I have no idea.  I find none of the faints and coughing fits and anything else more than a whisper campaign.  I think she's 70 years old and maintaining a demanding travel schedule and wore a stupidly hot outfit to an outdoor ceremony in unseasonable heat, and she got heat stroke.  I honestly, truly don't think there's more to it than that.  Could I be totally wrong about that?  Absolutely.  But when ALL of the noise about her health is coming from right wing and alt-right media outlets (and includes obvious fakes or out-of-context shots), I simply don't trust it.  The fainting spell this morning is the first one that had any whiff of truth to it, and as I said, with heat exhaustion being a perfectly valid explanation, I'm not going to push it.

 

I've seen the "sorry for the lack of choices the American people have" over and over again here -- this from a country that just had to pick between David Cameron and Ed Miliband! In my lifetime, the presidents have been as follows:

 

- A former football star who'd muddled through politics by keeping his head down and only got the job because the elected President was a lying crook forced to resign

- A brilliant, centrist pacifist who couldn't play the political game well enough and got undermined by his staff and by Congress and lost re-election badly

- A B-movie actor turned corporatist, militant union buster who gutted America's safety net, removed all the restraints on the financial sector, threw a massive party for the wealthy at the expense of social services, underwrote murderous dictatorships all over central America, and left us with an unmanageable mountain of debt.

- A former secret policeman and scion of a family of insider bankers who helped harbor Nazi gold.

- A triangulating centrist governor from a small state who got a semi whenever an intern walked by in a short skirt, who nonetheless managed to stop the attack on social services and balanced the budget.

- A dry-drunk half-wit who was completely uninterested in governing and turned affairs completely over to a corrupt set of neocon handlers who proceeded to spend $2 trillion on failed invasions while siphoning cash off to their cronies and whipping up rhetoric against the most vulnerable in the country. (Abetted by the most incompetent opposition party I have ever seen in my life, who seemed to think it was their job to roll over and play dead on every insane thing the idiot did.)

- A brilliant constitutional lawyer, cautious Alinskyite, and gifted orator with very little political experience who far overestimated his own charismatic ability to bring political opposition to heel.

 

So now I get a choice between two major parties, one who nominated an experienced Senator and Secretary of State who's a little on the older side and the other who nominated a xenophobic narcissist and serial failure at business.  Oh, and two minor parties, one of whom nominated a decent and honest but overmatched former governor with a stupid political philosophy and the other who nominated a small town councilwoman doctor with a bad habit of sucking up to the anti-vaxxers. 

 

Yeah, I'm pretty okay with Clinton.

[Sidelight]

I have no insider information, I'm just reading the tea leaves like anyone else.  If I have any insight, it's because I've been following politics since before I was 10 (I was a weird child) and you start to see some trends over time.

 

For my partiality to Clinton, I am a good bit to the left of her politically, but I'm also ultimately a political pragmatist.  The US political system is an unwieldy and ultimately lower-case-c conservative apparatus.  You don't get it to change quickly, so the best you hope for every four years is someone to move the needle in your direction a bit.  I've mentioned this elsewhere, but in my lifetime (I'm 40), the first Clinton administration was the first time I got to witness the Democratic party actually stanching the bleeding and halting the implosion of the party.  He was more centrist on a lot of things (the crime bill, welfare reform, foreign trade policy, financial regulation) than I'd like, but on multiple environmental issues, the minimum wage, federal judges, and a lot of other issues, he seemed like a gasp of air for a drowning party.  I was absolutely furious with Clinton for her Iraq War vote at the time and it kept me firmly out of her camp in the '08 primaries, but she was a very good Secretary of State and impressed me with how she handled the job.

 

Now, as to her health.  I have no idea.  I find none of the faints and coughing fits and anything else more than a whisper campaign.  I think she's 70 years old and maintaining a demanding travel schedule and wore a stupidly hot outfit to an outdoor ceremony in unseasonable heat, and she got heat stroke.  I honestly, truly don't think there's more to it than that.  Could I be totally wrong about that?  Absolutely.  But when ALL of the noise about her health is coming from right wing and alt-right media outlets (and includes obvious fakes or out-of-context shots), I simply don't trust it.  The fainting spell this morning is the first one that had any whiff of truth to it, and as I said, with heat exhaustion being a perfectly valid explanation, I'm not going to push it.

 

I've seen the "sorry for the lack of choices the American people have" over and over again here -- this from a country that just had to pick between David Cameron and Ed Miliband! In my lifetime, the presidents have been as follows:

 

- A former football star who'd muddled through politics by keeping his head down and only got the job because the elected President was a lying crook forced to resign

- A brilliant, centrist pacifist who couldn't play the political game well enough and got undermined by his staff and by Congress and lost re-election badly

- A B-movie actor turned corporatist, militant union buster who gutted America's safety net, removed all the restraints on the financial sector, threw a massive party for the wealthy at the expense of social services, underwrote murderous dictatorships all over central America, and left us with an unmanageable mountain of debt.

- A former secret policeman and scion of a family of insider bankers who helped harbor Nazi gold.

- A triangulating centrist governor from a small state who got a semi whenever an intern walked by in a short skirt, who nonetheless managed to stop the attack on social services and balanced the budget.

- A dry-drunk half-wit who was completely uninterested in governing and turned affairs completely over to a corrupt set of neocon handlers who proceeded to spend $2 trillion on failed invasions while siphoning cash off to their cronies and whipping up rhetoric against the most vulnerable in the country. (Abetted by the most incompetent opposition party I have ever seen in my life, who seemed to think it was their job to roll over and play dead on every insane thing the idiot did.)

- A brilliant constitutional lawyer, cautious Alinskyite, and gifted orator with very little political experience who far overestimated his own charismatic ability to bring political opposition to heel.

 

So now I get a choice between two major parties, one who nominated an experienced Senator and Secretary of State who's a little on the older side and the other who nominated a xenophobic narcissist and serial failure at business.  Oh, and two minor parties, one of whom nominated a decent and honest but overmatched former governor with a stupid political philosophy and the other who nominated a small town councilwoman doctor with a bad habit of sucking up to the anti-vaxxers. 

 

Yeah, I'm pretty okay with Clinton.

 

Thanks for getting back.

Seriously impressed that you can produce such coherent content in a very short time.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

 

Thanks for getting back.

Seriously impressed that you can produce such coherent content in a very short time.

 

 

That's why I'm in a Ph.D. program.  Trying to make money on it somehow.

 

In related news, Clinton campaign saying she's had pneumonia and been on antibiotics.  I'm kinda pissed off that they sat on that this long, but whatever.

[elvoys]

The liberal straw grasping whataboutery as though the spotlights also on trump is pathetic. The simple fact is he has been averaging a conference a day and has been constant all across the country whilst Clinton takes most wknds off and avoids press conferences.

[Bridge of Djoum]

Clinton been diagnosed with Pneumonia apparently.

[elvoys]

Rumours doing the rounds that a DNC emergency meeting may be called where they go for a replacement candidate. For a party that we are constantly have a well-oiled, savvy operation, you have to ask why the hell nobody inside saw this coming. Seems they were too complacent s or too cowed by the Clinton machine to actually cover their bases. Now America is frighteningly close to electing Biff from Back to the Future as leader of the free world.

Edited September 12, 2016 by elvoys

[aussieh]

Too many sherbets more like, or she's trolling jkb.

[Mac_fae_Gillie]

Clintons made a complete arse of it this week.

Trump is in effect so bad he can only gain voters nothing he says can harm him.

Means campaign is Clintons to lose and she sure tried this week you just can't insult the public even if the basis of her statement is correct.

Now collapsing/fainting in public when health rumours have been running for months

 

Trump does not look exactly healthy either overweight red face looks like a heart attack about to hit any minute.

Still fear Trump winning but geez it would keep the news interesting.

[elvoys]

A more significant point that is getting missed or not reported on is Twitter, Facebook, Google (and their Youtube)  removing the stuff that is going viral if it doesn't help their preferred candidate. Stopping hashtags, deleting common searches and  viral videos are the now just commonplace and they did this for the past two months with her health stuff. Of course this only feeds the anti-establishment or conspiracy climate.

 

I hate to sound like the Assanges of the world but this is just blatant corpocracy and is also symptomatic of the censorial instincts of western liberals today. Hillary of course has no bones with this as is clear to anyone who has looked up her actions with the OIC and her ugly statement on how she would enact UN Resolution 16/18

[niblick1874]

 

 

A more significant point that is getting missed or not reported on is Twitter, Facebook, Google (and their Youtube)  removing the stuff that is going viral if it doesn't help their preferred candidate. Stopping hashtags, deleting common searches and  viral videos are the now just commonplace and they did this for the past two months with her health stuff. Of course this only feeds the anti-establishment or conspiracy climate.

 

I hate to sound like the Assanges of the world but this is just blatant corpocracy and is also symptomatic of the censorial instincts of western liberals today. Hillary of course has no bones with this as is clear to anyone who has looked up her actions with the OIC and her ugly statement on how she would enact UN Resolution 16/18

 

Don't worry about it, that's going to be sorted. 

 

Everyone knows that when control of the internet gets handed to the UN at the end of the month it will sort all that out. If you put that together with the stuff about the internet that is in the TPP and the TTIP, everything will be ok.

 

Everyone knows about it being handed to the UN (the organization that are sending all those whatever they are to America to make sure that all is above bored with the election) and what is in the TPP and the TTIP so it must be ok, besides, there is always the MSM.

 

Come along, walk threw there and you will be ok.

 

Edited September 12, 2016 by niblick1874

[Craig Gordons Gloves]

69 YEAR OLD WOMAN WITH PNEUMONIA STUMBLES AFTER BEING OUT IN HEAT FOR A COUPLE OF HOURS.

 

Haud the front page. 

 

(yes, i'm very aware that this isn't the actual story but the out of proportion reactions to alot of what Hillary does in comparison to Trump can be quite staggering really).  I'm not a Hillary fan but if Trump gets in, i'm moving to East Timor.

[niblick1874]

Will they dump Clinton or try to prop her up until they get to the finish line?

Slime ball Biden or sell out Sanders?

Election put off for a bit?

 

Nightmare. 

[Maple Leaf]

Will they dump Clinton or try to prop her up until they get to the finish line?

Slime ball Biden or sell out Sanders?

Election put off for a bit?

 

Nightmare. 

Clinton has become damaged goods,and I'm sure the Dems are deeply worried.  If she is replaced, Elizabeth Warren would be a viable candidate, imo.