Is this the proper new reality?

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Does this theory make sense?

 

It's not particularly original, but is it actually the truth?:

 

In 2001 Liutauras Varanavicius is named head of the Lithuanian FA. Lithuanian football is in a mess and the national team is being humiliated in its World Cup qualifying group.

 

Varanavicius is also Chief Executive of Ukio Bankas.

 

In 2004 the EU admits 13 more countries (including Lithuania). The UK has a particularly relaxed approach to immigration from new member states. In other words, unlimited footballers from Lithuania can come to work in the UK at a moment's notice.

 

Varanavicius, along with his rich boss, Vladimir Romanov, spot an opportunity.

 

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4156/is_20040404/ai_n12589025

 

The English Premiership is just a complete non-starter because of the costs involved and the standard of players. This makes Scotland the ideal candidate - given also that most of our clubs are skint to the point of desperate.

 

They court Dundee Utd, Dundee and Dunfermline. Jimmy Calderwood even travels to watch the Kaunas youth team.

 

They are quite clear about wanting to showcase Lithuanian players. They even have Miko in mind!

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/d/dundee/3359305.stm

http://www.footballforums.net/forums/showthread.php?t=54620

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/d/dundee/3418755.stm

 

They are approached by some people who suggest Hearts. Not only is Hearts a higher profile club than the others they've previously sounded out, it's also located on a prime property site in the centre of Edinburgh. The club is also available right away.

 

Romanov buys Hearts. Varanavicius is appointed to the board. He makes clear their relationship here:

 

"If [Romanov] was not putting money into Lithuania then I would never have helped him to do anything abroad, but he puts a lot of money into Lithuanian football and, for the last seven years, he has invested five times more than anyone else."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/h/heart_of_midlothian/4719284.stm

 

Straight away a group of 20 Eastern European players come to Tynecastle for a trial, including Miko, Kisys, Zaliukas, Beniusis and Ivaskevicius. Some are picked straight away, others must wait a while.

 

In the autumn of 2005 Romanov briefly becomes intoxicated by being a football club owner. Hearts are top of the league and the supporters sing his name. There's one problem though - he can't guarantee his 'prospects' will get enough games to make the plan a success. So he sacks Burley, the title challenge falters, the fans stop singing his name and the intoxication fades. The plan is back on track. Some of the others from the group of 20 that didn't make the grade are brought over. The big-name players from the 'intoxication' days are got rid of - sometimes for a profit.

 

Romanov realises that money can be made from any player, they don't have to be Lithuanian. Besides, Varanavicius had to leave the board unexpectedly when Scotland and Lithuania were drawn in the same qualifying group. This was a serious spanner in the works - there quickly became much less coherence in the Kaunas signing policy and much less interest from Romanov.

 

We're now just plodding along. Vlad and Liutauras are sometimes promoting Lithuanian talent, sometimes buying and selling players for a profit (I know every small club does this, but very few make it their one and only over-riding goal) and looking to explore the commercial opportunities of the land our stadium is on.

 

Is there anything that has happened in the last three years that can't be explained by this theory?

 

And if you think it's rubbish, have another look at how determined Romanov was when talking to both Dundee clubs and Dunfermline. Why wouldn't this still be the plan with Hearts? Has Romanov struck you as somebody who just changes his mind like that?

 

This is our new reality - our club is a training ground to help out the Lithuanian FA and make our owner's company some cash.

[Cliffundo]

Does this theory make sense?

 

It's not particularly original, but is it actually the truth?:

 

In 2001 Liutauras Varanavicius is named head of the Lithuanian FA. Lithuanian football is in a mess and the national team is being humiliated in its World Cup qualifying group.

 

Varanavicius is also Chief Executive of Ukio Bankas.

 

In 2004 the EU admits 13 more countries (including Lithuania). The UK has a particularly relaxed approach to immigration from new member states. In other words, unlimited footballers from Lithuania can come to work in the UK at a moment's notice.

 

Varanavicius, along with his rich boss, Vladimir Romanov, spot an opportunity.

 

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4156/is_20040404/ai_n12589025

 

The English Premiership is just a complete non-starter because of the costs involved and the standard of players. This makes Scotland the ideal candidate - given also that most of our clubs are skint to the point of desperate.

 

They court Dundee Utd, Dundee and Dunfermline. Jimmy Calderwood even travels to watch the Kaunas youth team.

 

They are quite clear about wanting to showcase Lithuanian players. They even have Miko in mind!

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/d/dundee/3359305.stm

http://www.footballforums.net/forums/showthread.php?t=54620

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/d/dundee/3418755.stm

 

They are approached by some people who suggest Hearts. Not only is Hearts a higher profile club than the others they've previously sounded out, it's also located on a prime property site in the centre of Edinburgh. The club is also available right away.

 

Romanov buys Hearts. Varanavicius is appointed to the board. He makes clear their relationship here:

 

"If [Romanov] was not putting money into Lithuania then I would never have helped him to do anything abroad, but he puts a lot of money into Lithuanian football and, for the last seven years, he has invested five times more than anyone else."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/h/heart_of_midlothian/4719284.stm

 

Straight away a group of 20 Eastern European players come to Tynecastle for a trial, including Miko, Kisys, Zaliukas, Beniusis and Ivaskevicius. Some are picked straight away, others must wait a while.

 

In the autumn of 2005 Romanov briefly becomes intoxicated by being a football club owner. Hearts are top of the league and the supporters sing his name. There's one problem though - he can't guarantee his 'prospects' will get enough games to make the plan a success. So he sacks Burley, the title challenge falters, the fans stop singing his name and the intoxication fades. The plan is back on track. Some of the others from the group of 20 that didn't make the grade are brought over. The big-name players from the 'intoxication' days are got rid of - sometimes for a profit.

 

Romanov realises that money can be made from any player, they don't have to be Lithuanian. Besides, Varanavicius had to leave the board unexpectedly when Scotland and Lithuania were drawn in the same qualifying group. This was a serious spanner in the works - there quickly became much less coherence in the Kaunas signing policy and much less interest from Romanov.

 

We're now just plodding along. Vlad and Liutauras are sometimes promoting Lithuanian talent, sometimes buying and selling players for a profit (I know every small club does this, but very few make it their one and only over-riding goal) and looking to explore the commercial opportunities of the land our stadium is on.

 

Is there anything that has happened in the last three years that can't be explained by this theory?

 

And if you think it's rubbish, have another look at how determined Romanov was when talking to both Dundee clubs and Dunfermline. Why wouldn't this still be the plan with Hearts? Has Romanov struck you as somebody who just changes his mind like that?

 

This is our new reality - our club is a training ground to help out the Lithuanian FA and make our owner's company some cash.

 

That seems like the path Vlad and Liutauras took. This looks like the plan from the outset. they just thought that the lithuainian talent was better than it actually is.

 

They could still do this and I beleieve they could make it financially rewarding and acceptable to hearts fans. All they have to do is find a proper Maagement team to control the pyramid, someone who can imlpiment proper training and equiptment and coaching for Kanuas, MTZ. I would go for a well schooled dutch contingent.

 

Once they have that in place they can adopt a style of how they will play. The kids from all the academys should be taught this way (the hearts way) and every player given the chance to make it with hearts if they can learn and adapt.

 

Once these players are of the standard required, they come into the hearts squad and if good enough will get into the team. The transition would be alot easier than it is just now and the player would fit into our style of play having been brought up on that style. This would mean VR could realise good profits whilst maintaining a decent standard of player at the top of the pyramid.

[Marmeladent?rtchen]

Intresting stuff,,,, backed up with links,,,, one thing,,,

 

Besides, Varanavicius had to leave the board unexpectedly when Scotland and Lithuania were drawn in the same qualifying group.

 

I always thought this was dodgy. More of an excuse to leave without up setting Vlad then anything. I dont think he needed to leave because of the scotland game. Think he knew what was comming and jumped ship.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/h/heart_of_midlothian/4717768.stm

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

That seems like the path Vlad and Liutauras took. This looks like the plan from the outset. they just thought that the lithuainian talent was better than it actually is.

 

They could still do this and I beleieve they could make it financially rewarding and acceptable to hearts fans. All they have to do is find a proper Maagement team to control the pyramid, someone who can imlpiment proper training and equiptment and coaching for Kanuas, MTZ. I would go for a well schooled dutch contingent.

 

Once they have that in place they can adopt a style of how they will play. The kids from all the academys should be taught this way (the hearts way) and every player given the chance to make it with hearts if they can learn and adapt.

 

Once these players are of the standard required, they come into the hearts squad and if good enough will get into the team. The transition would be alot easier than it is just now and the player would fit into our style of play having been brought up on that style. This would mean VR could realise good profits whilst maintaining a decent standard of player at the top of the pyramid.

 

Although, I haven't seen anything so far to suggest they'll suddenly begin doing things like that.

 

Also, there are parts of that theory that clearly have the long-term welfare of Hearts in mind. I don't think that's part of the reality right now.

 

It might though, as you say, work in theory.

 

I think I would still hate it though.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Intresting stuff,,,, backed up with links,,,, one thing,,,

 

 

 

I always thought this was dodgy. More of an excuse to leave without up setting Vlad then anything. I dont think he needed to leave because of the scotland game. Think he knew what was comming and jumped ship.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/h/heart_of_midlothian/4717768.stm

 

Yeah, good point.

 

There's no doubt they still have a tight relationship though.

 

Maybe the plan was that Varanavicius would just hang around long enough to get the idea up and running.

 

I'm certain though that he played (and may still play) a much bigger role in Hearts than most people realise.

[Cliffundo]

Although, I haven't seen anything so far to suggest they'll suddenly begin doing things like that.

 

Also, there are parts of that theory that clearly have the long-term welfare of Hearts in mind. I don't think that's part of the reality right now.

 

It might though, as you say, work in theory.

 

I think I would still hate it though.

 

Thats the $64,000 question though... are they interested in hearts as a football club, now and in the future. if they are they could make that work, it's almost like having a reserve and a youth team abroad but the players are getting 1st team experience and even a shot at european football in some instances.

[shaun.lawson]

There are some tremendous finds in this, Eldar: I'd never seen that in depth Sunday Herald piece before, for instance, and it's striking how categorical VR and LV were about their showcasing priorities when in talks to buy Dundee. "It's not about Dundee. It's about us bringing over our own players, our own methods": substitute Dundee for Hearts, and there you are. An open admission that the history of the club counts for nothing, and it's all about selling players on.

 

So I agree with large amounts of what you've written. But at the same time, I think you underestimate the importance of the stadium redevelopment to UBIG, and the part Romanov's bank may be playing in all of this too. The real money, I've always figured, is centered around that project - it could be clean, it could be dirty. I'm utterly convinced Romanov has backers in Lithuania and Russia, and he may even be a front man for others; and moreover, it's also possible that Varanavicius was only aware of the football and showcasing side of Vlad's motivations, and not anything more.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

There are some tremendous finds in this, Eldar: I'd never seen that in depth Sunday Herald piece before, for instance, and it's striking how categorical VR and LV were about their showcasing priorities when in talks to buy Dundee. "It's not about Dundee. It's about us bringing over our own players, our own methods": substitute Dundee for Hearts, and there you are. An open admission that the history of the club counts for nothing, and it's all about selling players on.

 

So I agree with large amounts of what you've written. But at the same time, I think you underestimate the importance of the stadium redevelopment to UBIG. The real money, I've always figured, is centered around that project - it could be clean, it could be dirty. I'm utterly convinced Romanov has backers in Lithuania and Russia, and he may even be a front man for others; and moreover, it's also possible that Varanavicius was only aware of the football and showcasing side of Vlad's motivations, and not anything more.

 

 

I think I just ran out of steam towards the end.

 

I think the stadium redevelopment is a huge deal to UBIG. They probably crapped themselves when they found out there was a ?20m+ offer on the table for the stadium when they first thought of buying the club.

 

The key point remains for Hearts fans, however, whichever of these two theories has priority:

 

The success of Hearts as a football team is of little or no concern to Romanov, Varanavicius, UKIO or UBIG.

 

I guess these two theories explain both why they came and why they've stayed.

[shaun.lawson]

 

The success of Hearts as a football of team is of little or no concern to Romanov, Varanavicius, UKIO or UBIG.

 

Exactly. And this is so paramount, I'm going to copy it for my new signature, if you don't mind?

[Ivan Drago]

This is what really annoys me - we have a ready made feeder team in Kaunas that a proper manager could utilize, and yet all its done so far is add to the growing list of things that is wrong with our club.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

[/b]

 

Exactly. And this is so paramount, I'm going to copy it for my new signature, if you don't mind?

 

Good stuff. I see you also fixed my glaring typo.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

This is what really annoys me - we have a ready made feeder team in Kaunas that a proper manager could utilize, and yet all its done so far is add to the growing list of things that is wrong with our club.

 

But, 'feeder team' implies that the success of the club at the top is the most important thing.

 

In our case, it's the players themselves that take precedent.

 

So, as we have seen, it doesn't matter how old they are, if they fit into the formation, if they suit the dressing room, if they're any good, if they speak the language, when they arrive, whether or not they're sold at crucial times of the season (Velicka).

 

None of that matters because the benefits to Hearts are not considered important.

 

"This is not about Dundee for us. We want to bring in our own ideas, our own methods and our own players."

[Statto]

If this is true, the only hopes we have left is once the stadium construction is complete, VR leaves the club to run itself or another businessman comes in and takes over the team side from Vlad, leaving him to the business side of it - stadium, hotel etc.

[Gerd Muller]

If it were to showcase Lithuanian youngsters, where are they?

Yes we had Miko and Chesney but that was 2005 and they are still here.

[shaun.lawson]

But, 'feeder team' implies that the success of the club at the top is the most important thing.

 

In our case, it's the players themselves that take precedent.

 

So, as we have seen, it doesn't matter how old they are, if they fit into the formation, if they suit the dressing room, if they're any good, if they speak the language, when they arrive, whether or not they're sold at crucial times of the season (Velicka).

 

None of that matters because the benefits to Hearts are not considered important.

 

"This is not about Dundee for us. We want to bring in our own ideas, our own methods and our own players."

 

The more I read that final quote, the more chilling it becomes: it's incontrovertible. But the reason I strongly lean towards the idea that something seriously wonky's going on is the wage bill: how does that square with UBIG looking to make a nice earner out of us, unless Hearts are being deliberately charged way over the odds, with the money somehow finding its way back to UBIG anyway?

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

The more I read that final quote, the more chilling it becomes: it's incontrovertible. But the reason I strongly lean towards the idea that something seriously wonky's going on is the wage bill: how does that square with UBIG looking to make a nice earner out of us, unless Hearts are being deliberately charged way over the odds, with the money somehow finding its way back to UBIG anyway?

 

Yeah, I would need to know a hell of a lot more about business and banking to even guess at what that's all about.

 

What I can guess though is that paying off debt (and by that I mean simply writing it off) or putting large amounts of capital into the business would benefit Hearts and Hearts only.

 

And that's not the plan.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

If it were to showcase Lithuanian youngsters, where are they?

Yes we had Miko and Chesney but that was 2005 and they are still here.

 

Miko and Cesnauskis are still here because I bet nobody else wants them!

 

And it's not just youngsters, that probably made it sound more attractive to the owners of Dundee Utd, Dundee and Dunfermline when they were being offered the same or similar arrangements.

 

Not like anybody needs a reminder, but so far we've had;

 

Miko, Cesnauskis, Kisys, Zaliukas, Velicka, Beniusis, Barasa, Kancelskis, Ksanavicius, Kurskis, Ivaskevicius and Pilibaitis.

 

And those are just the Lithuanian ones. That doesn't include Klimek and Screpis.

 

If that roll-call is not evidence of putting the development of Lithuanian players above the fortunes of Hearts (in fact, one could argue, to Hearts detriment) I don't know what is.

[Ray Winstone]

Can we make a Lithuanian 11 yet?

 

Kurskis

 

Barasa

Zaliukas

Kancelskis

 

Ivaskevicus

Philibitis

Audrey

Miko

Chesney

 

Velicka

Beniusis

 

Nice wee 3-5-2 formation.

[Ivan Drago]

Can we make a Lithuanian 11 yet?

 

Kurskis

 

Barasa

Zaliukas

Kancelskis

 

Ivaskevicus

Philibitis

Audrey

Miko

Chesney

 

Velicka

Beniusis

 

Nice wee 3-5-2 formation.

 

Still room for Kizyz (sp?) on the bench as well, and that other goalie we had for a bit?

[Charlie-Brown]

Vlad has been thru Hero & Villain periods (twice) as I can see.....

 

Hero Period #1 buying out Robinson, cancelling the sale of tynie, Burley & great players etc.

 

Villain Period #1 sacking Burley & Anderton, Foulkes resignation, Rix, Tannadice etc.

 

Hero Period #2 qualification for the champions league, 4-0 Semi, Scottish cup win, tens of thousands on the parade chanting Romanov's name etc.

 

Villain Period #2 post Riccarton-gate until the present......

[Marmeladent?rtchen]

Vlad has been thru Hero & Villain periods (twice) as I can see.....

 

Hero Period #1 buying out Robinson, cancelling the sale of tynie, Burley & great players etc.

 

Villain Period #1 sacking Burley & Anderton, Foulkes resignation, Rix, Tannadice etc.

 

Hero Period #2 qualification for the champions league, 4-0 Semi, Scottish cup win, tens of thousands on the parade chanting Romanov's name etc.

 

Villain Period #2 post Riccarton-gate until the present......

 

Saddly I think Hero Period #2 was fluked off the back of Burley. Rix used to play Burleys team a lot etc. Burley got the ball rolling and it just rolled over against Gretna.

[topcat]

Even if we buy this theory in it's entirety...

 

If there is to money to be made from showcasing players at Hearts then the showcase needs to be effective.

 

A shambolic season like the one just ended will not added very little to the value of anybody. Which would suggest that Eldar's statement ("The success of Hearts as a football of team is of little or no concern...") is a misreading of the situation.

 

If you look at the hobo fantasy worst case scenario where hearts enjoy so little success that we get relegated then the "shop window" becomes far less useful. If you take the optimistic utopian vision where we become regular Champions League competitors then suddenly the same window is in a prime position. Those are the more extreme ends of the scale but surely Velicka would have attracted more interest if he'd been playing in a smoothly functioning team that could service him properly.

 

Apart from making players less marketable, seasons like this one can't be doing anything for their intrinsic value.

 

The current ownership of Heart of Midlothian Football Club have a clear incentive to try and sort the current mess out.

[Nucky Thompson]

Eldar do you work for the papers? You dig up some good dirt on the custodians of HMFC. Whats your agenda?

[Toxteth O'Grady]

Can we make a Lithuanian 11 yet?

 

Kurskis

 

Barasa

Zaliukas

Kancelskis

 

Ivaskevicus

Philibitis

Audrey

Miko

Chesney

 

Velicka

Beniusis

 

Nice wee 3-5-2 formation.

 

A 3rd Division level team at best

[Charlie-Brown]

The proper new reality:

 

Everything you think you are and everything you think you perceive are undivided. To realize fully this lack of division is to become enlightened.

 

When you look directly at an insane man all you see is a reflection of your own knowledge that he's' insane.....

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Eldar do you work for the papers? You dig up some good dirt on the custodians of HMFC. Whats your agenda?

 

No agenda other than to dig up some good dirt on the custodians of HMFC:)

[Guest Freewheelin' Jambo]

If you try to look dispassionately at these links and what is stated by the Lithuanians you have to accept that they basically state at least in Dundee's case (because they seem to have got furthest in the door before it was slammed shut there) they made their intentions clear: showcase Lithiuanian talent first and foremost. The Club is secondary.

 

You can understand Dunfermline and Dundee Utd, particularly United who were able to realise that DU's interest as a club would not be first in the mind of Romanov. In DU's case they were fortunate to have a man of integrity like Eddie Thomson who has always had that Club's interest at heart first and foremost. Even John Yorkston, who drove his own club to near disaster saw this and said no.

 

Why should the Romanov plan be any different just because it is now Hearts?

 

Was it not Anderton and Foulkes who brought in Burley and really, in light of Vlad's real intentions for Hearts, was that appointment the first of Romanov's blunders? He would have to have given the green light for that.

 

Should we not have suspected something when Robbo left due to a "Director of Football" being appointed above him?

 

No, Eldar's OP to me makes sense. Its's logical based on the evidence of all previous comments made which are listed in the links.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Even if we buy this theory in it's entirety...

 

If there is to money to be made from showcasing players at Hearts then the showcase needs to be effective.

 

A shambolic season like the one just ended will not added very little to the value of anybody. Which would suggest that Eldar's statement ("The success of Hearts as a football of team is of little or no concern...") is a misreading of the situation.

 

If you look at the hobo fantasy worst case scenario where hearts enjoy so little success that we get relegated then the "shop window" becomes far less useful. If you take the optimistic utopian vision where we become regular Champions League competitors then suddenly the same window is in a prime position. Those are the more extreme ends of the scale but surely Velicka would have attracted more interest if he'd been playing in a smoothly functioning team that could service him properly.

 

Apart from making players less marketable, seasons like this one can't be doing anything for their intrinsic value.

 

The current ownership of Heart of Midlothian Football Club have a clear incentive to try and sort the current mess out.

 

I agree with this to an extent.

 

This has indeed been a shambolic season. That's probably why we saw that little bit of panic that resulted in the reactive statement on Jan 1st.

 

Last season (06/07) was probably ideal for them - not too good, not too bad, they can mess around with the team and test out some Kaunas merchandise on the team without too much protest. And when there was protest Koslovski was quick to accuse us of racism - that threat of shame put that to rest for a little while.

 

It's probably no coincidence that last season was when Vlad was quoted as saying he was extremely happy with everything - it was all going perfectly.

[Buffalo Bill]

I think we'll find out within the next few weeks what the next few years are going to be like.

 

 

There is still time, but it's running out fast.

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

[Charlie-Brown]

If truth was black and/or white then you could accept Eldar's Hypothesis.....however I believe EVERYTHING is shades of grey without absolutes either way......why were no Kaunas players (lithuanian) players brought in on loan in August 2005 or January 2006?

 

We did sign Jankauskas & Barasa in these transfer windows but they came from the 'Super-liga' in Portugal and the Russian League but not the A Lyga or Kaunas.

 

The signing / playing of most of the FBK players happened AFTER we exited Europe / The Champions League........I believe the most significant reason was to constrain runaway wage costs....if the Kaunas players & academy kids hadn't played who knows what losses / debts might have been?

 

PS This is just my opinion and explanation not any justification (but people will ignore that sentence)

[hawaii]

If memory serves Liutauras Varanavicius also was quoted somewhere as saying that Romanov always makes any business venture a success, no matter how long it takes or how many of his employees are telling him to throw in the towel.

 

Was it the first of the BBC digging expeditions?

 

Not sure if that bit of information will be good news to some though...

[bighusref]

Does this theory make sense?

 

It's not particularly original, but is it actually the truth?:

 

In 2001 Liutauras Varanavicius is named head of the Lithuanian FA. Lithuanian football is in a mess and the national team is being humiliated in its World Cup qualifying group.

 

Varanavicius is also Chief Executive of Ukio Bankas.

 

In 2004 the EU admits 13 more countries (including Lithuania). The UK has a particularly relaxed approach to immigration from new member states. In other words, unlimited footballers from Lithuania can come to work in the UK at a moment's notice.

 

Varanavicius, along with his rich boss, Vladimir Romanov, spot an opportunity.

 

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4156/is_20040404/ai_n12589025

 

The English Premiership is just a complete non-starter because of the costs involved and the standard of players. This makes Scotland the ideal candidate - given also that most of our clubs are skint to the point of desperate.

 

They court Dundee Utd, Dundee and Dunfermline. Jimmy Calderwood even travels to watch the Kaunas youth team.

 

They are quite clear about wanting to showcase Lithuanian players. They even have Miko in mind!

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/d/dundee/3359305.stm

http://www.footballforums.net/forums/showthread.php?t=54620

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/d/dundee/3418755.stm

 

They are approached by some people who suggest Hearts. Not only is Hearts a higher profile club than the others they've previously sounded out, it's also located on a prime property site in the centre of Edinburgh. The club is also available right away.

 

Romanov buys Hearts. Varanavicius is appointed to the board. He makes clear their relationship here:

 

"If [Romanov] was not putting money into Lithuania then I would never have helped him to do anything abroad, but he puts a lot of money into Lithuanian football and, for the last seven years, he has invested five times more than anyone else."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/h/heart_of_midlothian/4719284.stm

 

Straight away a group of 20 Eastern European players come to Tynecastle for a trial, including Miko, Kisys, Zaliukas, Beniusis and Ivaskevicius. Some are picked straight away, others must wait a while.

 

In the autumn of 2005 Romanov briefly becomes intoxicated by being a football club owner. Hearts are top of the league and the supporters sing his name. There's one problem though - he can't guarantee his 'prospects' will get enough games to make the plan a success. So he sacks Burley, the title challenge falters, the fans stop singing his name and the intoxication fades. The plan is back on track. Some of the others from the group of 20 that didn't make the grade are brought over. The big-name players from the 'intoxication' days are got rid of - sometimes for a profit.

 

Romanov realises that money can be made from any player, they don't have to be Lithuanian. Besides, Varanavicius had to leave the board unexpectedly when Scotland and Lithuania were drawn in the same qualifying group. This was a serious spanner in the works - there quickly became much less coherence in the Kaunas signing policy and much less interest from Romanov.

 

We're now just plodding along. Vlad and Liutauras are sometimes promoting Lithuanian talent, sometimes buying and selling players for a profit (I know every small club does this, but very few make it their one and only over-riding goal) and looking to explore the commercial opportunities of the land our stadium is on.

 

Is there anything that has happened in the last three years that can't be explained by this theory?

 

And if you think it's rubbish, have another look at how determined Romanov was when talking to both Dundee clubs and Dunfermline. Why wouldn't this still be the plan with Hearts? Has Romanov struck you as somebody who just changes his mind like that?

 

This is our new reality - our club is a training ground to help out the Lithuanian FA and make our owner's company some cash.

 

...But that is all rubbish as Mikoliunas is the finest player in the land.

 

What ELSE do you want?

[Buffalo Bill]

If memory serves Liutauras Varanavicius also was quoted somewhere as saying that Romanov always makes any business venture a success, no matter how long it takes or how many of his employees are telling him to throw in the towel.

 

Was it the first of the BBC digging expeditions?

 

Not sure if that bit of information will be good news to some though...

 

My main hope is that Vlad has some sort of professinal pride to make Hearts come good again.

 

Is he really so insane and evil that his only goal is to destroy HMFC?

 

Will reality bite for him?

 

I freekin' hope so.

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

If truth was black and/or white then you could accept Eldar's Hypothesis.....however I believe EVERYTHING is shades of grey without absolutes either way......why were no Kaunas players (lithuanian) players brought in on loan in August 2005 or January 2006?

 

Romanov didn't have full control. In August 2005 George Burley was our manager. He was sacked two months later (less than 24 hours after Romanov gained full control) for the reason that he and Romanov couldn't work together. That's a good reason why the link was quiet during these summer months. Also, in Jan 2006 Vlad was still in his intoxication phase - he got completely carried away with himself and his new toy.

 

We did sign Jankauskas & Barasa in these transfer windows but they came from the 'Super-liga' in Portugal and the Russian League but not the A Lyga or Kaunas.

 

Barasa counts, no question. He is a Lithuanian player and I think the plan is to showcase Lithuanian players. It makes it easier if they come from Kaunas but it's by no means a necessity. Jankauskas is the greatest Lithuanian footballer ever. Vlad buying him was like a rich American buying the Empire State Building - he did it just because he could.

 

The signing / playing of most of the FBK players happened AFTER we exited Europe / The Champions League........I believe the most significant reason was to constrain runaway wage costs....if the Kaunas players & academy kids hadn't played who knows what losses / debts might have been?

 

Zaliukas, Beniusus and Ivaskevisius were all here on trial when Robbo was manager. A couple of them also played against Osasuna before the CL games. While it's true to say they were signed after the CL exit (and the reducing costs point makes that more believable) the plan was clearly, indisputably in place 18 months earlier to have them come across.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

If memory serves Liutauras Varanavicius also was quoted somewhere as saying that Romanov always makes any business venture a success, no matter how long it takes or how many of his employees are telling him to throw in the towel.

 

Was it the first of the BBC digging expeditions?

 

Not sure if that bit of information will be good news to some though...

 

That depends what you think the "business venture" is. I don't think it's to make Hearts successful.

 

You could argue he is making his "business venture" a success - he just sold Velicka for a million quid.

[Charlie-Brown]

Romanov didn't have full control. In August 2005 George Burley was our manager. He was sacked two months later (less than 24 hours after Romanov gained full control) for the reason that he and Romanov couldn't work together. That's a good reason why the link was quiet during these summer months. Also, in Jan 2006 Vlad was still in his intoxication phase - he got completely carried away with himself and his new toy.

 

 

 

Barasa counts, no question. He is a Lithuanian player and I think the plan is to showcase Lithuanian players. It makes it easier if they come from Kaunas but it's by no means a necessity. Jankauskas is the greatest Lithuanian footballer ever. Vlad buying him was like a rich American buying the Empire State Building - he did it just because he could.

 

 

 

Zaliukas, Beniusus and Ivaskevisius were all here on trial when Robbo was manager. A couple of them also played against Osasuna before the CL games. While it's true to say they were signed after the CL exit (and the reducing costs point makes that more believable) the plan was clearly, indisputably in place 18 months earlier to have them come across.

 

Given Hearts debt was ?20M+ pre-Romanov and ?30M+ post 2005-06 'intoxication' phase.....do you think that Kaunas players & Academy players is/was a bad strategy to contain costs?

 

In short was 2005-06 make 'believe' ? and out of step with 2001-2008 that 1 season excepted?

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Given Hearts debt was ?20M+ pre-Romanov and ?30M+ post 2005-06 'intoxication' phase.....do you think that Kaunas players & Academy players is/was a bad strategy to contain costs?

 

In short was 2005-06 make 'believe' ? and out of step with 2001-2008 that 1 season excepted?

 

It doesn't matter because that is looking at it through the prism of what is good or bad for Hearts. That's not the over-riding priority. 4th, 5th or 6th in the table, 8,000 season ticket holders or 13,000 season ticket holders, ?20m debt or ?38m debt - none of it matters just as long as we're not so bad that there's outright carnage in the stands. As long as we have a couple of Lithuanian players gaining exposure and experience, along with a couple of other players that can maybe turn UBIG a profit, they'll sleep easy.

 

 

For what it's worth, I do happen to think playing guys like Zal, Ivas and Audry ahead of academy players is a bad strategy.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Take the game against Barcelona as an example:

 

Six Lithuanian players took part that day. Ksanavicius and Beniusis made their debuts despite not even being Hearts players!

 

The biggest friendly in our history and we played a couple of guys who had only arrived that day and weren't even contracted to the club. How much more proof do we need?

 

Maybe we're looking at this the wrong way round? I always assumed Beni was brought on against Barca to make his appearance against Hibs more believable. Maybe he only played against Hibs to make his appearance in the Barca game (and worldwide TV audience) more believable. Completely the other way round.

[Charlie-Brown]

You're looking at things in too 'absolute' terms EH and the danger in that is that you paint yourself into a corner whereas the 'reality' in my opinion is 3/4/5 successive and overlapping phases (realities) regards players....

 

in no particular order....

 

1) kaunas players phase: janny, miko, chesney, barasa, zali, ksana, iva, kurskis, beni, pillow etc

2) academy players phase: berra, wallace, elliot, jonsson, mole, driver, glen, mcgowan, rapnik, husband,,,

3) higher earners: skacel, fyssas, goncalves, pinilla, kingston, karipidis, beslija, makela, pospisil, brellier, basso, banks, bednar, aguiar...

4) legacy players: pressley, hartley, neilson. gordon, neilson, simmons, mcfarlane, g.weir....

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

You're looking at things in too 'absolute' terms EH and the danger in that is that you paint yourself into a corner whereas the 'reality' in my opinion is 3/4/5 successive and overlapping phases (realities) regards players....

 

in no particular order....

 

1) kaunas players phase: janny, miko, chesney, barasa, zali, ksana, iva, kurskis, beni, pillow etc

2) academy players phase: berra, wallace, elliot, jonsson, mole, driver, glen, mcgowan, rapnik, husband,,,

3) higher earners: skacel, fyssas, goncalves, pinilla, kingston, karipidis, beslija, makela, pospisil, brellier, basso, banks, bednar, aguiar...

4) legacy players: pressley, hartley, neilson. gordon, neilson, simmons, mcfarlane, g.weir....

 

Maybe it only appears absolute because this is actually the answer.

 

This is not about Dundee for us. We want to bring in our own ideas, our own methods and our own players.

 

There isn't a lot of grey in that statement. That looks pretty absolute to me.

[magalufhearts]

One thing is for sure Vlad is a businessman, a good business man at that, i heard the reason for the edinburgh branch of ukio not opening just now is the current financial market in the uk.

 

The stadium plans on the other hand HAS funding from other sources as well, picture the scenario -

 

1 -Main stand is built

2 - gym is built

3 - hotel is built

4 - Main stand is overbranded in 5 year deals with various sponsorship deals including a renaming process. Cost repaid within 20 years.

5 - gym is franchised out to a leading gym and recreation group, same as above. Gym is paid within 15-20 years

6 - From what ive heard the hotel deal is already done with one of the leading hotel chains in the UK.

 

The 51m will be paid within 20 years and the profits will continue.

 

 

Im not a Vladsheep but i do believe it is possible and is realistic.

 

 

We can say Vlad and Rodney are idiots but look at the last 3 months in the esspeeell Rodneys comments are coming to light now, about corruption and inadequate refs etc......

 

 

Believe and got my ST in expectation more than belief!

 

 

 

107 FTH

[Charlie-Brown]

Maybe it only appears absolute because this is actually the answer.

 

This is not about Dundee for us. We want to bring in our own ideas, our own methods and our own players.

 

There isn't a lot of grey in that statement. That looks pretty absolute to me.

 

I posted a thread about 15 months ago which was part me / part an.other posters opinions - the central thesis behind the 'way to success' was that the future of Hearts would be built not bought....this meant building the club up via the 'owners' own resources ie existing players, Kaunas players, Academy players, Value for money loan/low cost signings from the squads of 'bigger' clubs....

 

unfortunately that thread or version of this forum no longer exists and my old laptop got trashed via a cat/spilt coffee fiasco....however I 'believe' that assertion that given Hearts financial position the club owners had little choice but to try to re-align & rebuild Hearts finances & strategy from within 'their' ie the owners own resources and if a champs league flop means that costs revenue are way out of synch then what easier way to cut costs than to play the cheaper players (FBK & Academy) for whom they already own contracts......of course people will say what about Pinilla or Kingston etc to which my only explanation is that they are players the club can trade profitably thus reducing debts (in theory)

 

But the truth is there is no absolute truth or reality there is only guiding principles and kaunas players and academy players and profitable player trading & reducing debts and value for money signings is the only way Hearts will tackle their self-created problems of too high costs / revenue & debt imbalance as well as try to aim to be successful.

 

Anyway: which other non-Old Firm or Scotland International player except Velicka sold for more than ?600K - ?1M in the last 3 seasons from an SPL club?

 

Indeed what was the next highest transfer involving SPL players and non-Old Firm clubs?

[john brownlee]

The theory to me sounds about right.

If I was a scottish millionaire and bought a top Italian club I'm sure I would give good honest scottish boys a chance.

If I was a Scottish manager plying my trade in engerland I'm sure as hell going to bring scots into my team. Is that not the norm.

 

No matter what league or country you are in it applies, the owner the coach or whoever will bring in their fellow countrymen its human nature

 

Its just a pity that Mr Romanov wasn't a Brazilian millionare.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

I posted a thread about 15 months ago which was part me / part an.other posters opinions - the central thesis behind the 'way to success' was that the future of Hearts would be built not bought....this meant building the club up via the 'owners' own resources ie existing players, Kaunas players, Academy players, Value for money loan/low cost signings from the squads of 'bigger' clubs....

 

unfortunately that thread or version of this forum no longer exists ans my old laptop got trashed via a cat/spilt coffee fiasco....however I 'believe' that assertion that given Hearts financial position the club owners had little choice but to try to re-align & rebuild Hearts finances & strategy from within 'their' ie the owners own resources and if a champs league flop means that costs revenue are way out of synch then what easier way to cut costs than to play the cheaper players (FBK & Academy) for whom they already own contracts......of course people will say what about Pinilla or Kingston etc to which my only explanation is that they are players the club can trade profitably thus reducing debts (in theory)

 

But the truth is there is no absolute truth or reality there is only guiding principles and kaunas players and academy players and profitable player trading & reducing debts and value for money signings is the only way Hearts will tackle their self-created problems of too high costs / revenue & debt imbalance as well as try to aim to be successful.

 

Anyway: which other non-Old Firm or Scotland International player except Velicka sold for more than ?600K - ?1M in the last 3 seasons from an SPL club?

 

Indeed what was the next highest transfer involving SPL players and non-Old Firm clubs?

 

Yes, Hearts should cut costs and trade as efficiently as possible.

 

Yes, a club of our size should be selling players when we get a suitable offer.

 

No, we should not start buying big-name players to achieve short-term success (unless Vlad wants to start using his own money).

 

Yes, we should promote players from the academy.

 

I would be quite happy for Hearts to do all of this. But, crucially, if this was the aim of Vlad and UBIG we would have a manager and few of the problems we have now. No manager would refuse these perfectly reasonable conditions.

 

However, we could have done all of these things without the Lithuanian players here. They don't enhance or contribute towards this theory you've put forward. We managed to cut costs quite substantially under Craig levein and finish 3rd and read the UEFA Cup group stages without loan players from Kaunas.

 

The reason we're not doing this without the Lithuanian players is because they take priority - and then the board can concentrate on all this other stuff. I agree with everything you say, I just happen to think there is another, over-riding strategy.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

...But that is all rubbish as Mikoliunas is the finest player in the land.

 

What ELSE do you want?

 

Ten more Mikos.

 

[Dr Ian Malcolm]

If truth was black and/or white then you could accept Eldar's Hypothesis.....however I believe EVERYTHING is shades of grey without absolutes either way......why were no Kaunas players (lithuanian) players brought in on loan in August 2005 or January 2006?

 

We did sign Jankauskas & Barasa in these transfer windows but they came from the 'Super-liga' in Portugal and the Russian League but not the A Lyga or Kaunas.

 

The signing / playing of most of the FBK players happened AFTER we exited Europe / The Champions League........I believe the most significant reason was to constrain runaway wage costs....if the Kaunas players & academy kids hadn't played who knows what losses / debts might have been?

 

PS This is just my opinion and explanation not any justification (but people will ignore that sentence)

 

You could probably put Chesney in to that bracket as well - he was signed from Dynamo Moscow (or was it Lokomotiv, I think he was on loan to one from the other). He's never actually played for Kaunas, he's just registered to them.

[Charlie-Brown]

Yes, Hearts should cut costs and trade as efficiently as possible.

 

Yes, a club of our size should be selling players when we get a suitable offer.

 

No, we should not start buying big-name players to achieve short-term success (unless Vlad wants to start using his own money).

 

Yes, we should promote players from the academy.

 

I would be quite happy for Hearts to do all of this. But, crucially, if this was the aim of Vlad and UBIG we would have a manager and few of the problems we have now. No manager would refuse these perfectly reasonable conditions.

 

However, we could have done all of these things without the Lithuanian players here. They don't enhance or contribute towards this theory you've put forward. We managed to cut costs quite substantially under Craig levein and finish 3rd and read the UEFA Cup group stages without loan players from Kaunas.

 

The reason we're not doing this without the Lithuanian players is because they take priority - and then the board can concentrate on all this other stuff. I agree with everything you say, I just happen to think there is another, over-riding strategy.

 

Lithuanian players have definitely had their time and place and reasons for playing and I don't doubt that certain people close to Romanov have had their reasons & preference for promoting these players but I don't think you can say it holds true for all (Romanov) time in every season / part season etc.

 

You could say 2nd half 2004-05, most of 2006-07 post euro exits, 1st half 2007-08 but not 2005-06 nor really 2007-08 latter period as the team sheets just don't bear that out because Kurskis & benuisis & Kancelskis all left, zaliukas & ksnavicius rarely played, miko / chesney as always seemed to swap with each other,velicka got sold, only screpis (argentinian) arrived etc.

[davemclaren]

Maybe it only appears absolute because this is actually the answer.

 

This is not about Dundee for us. We want to bring in our own ideas, our own methods and our own players.

 

There isn't a lot of grey in that statement. That looks pretty absolute to me.

 

I think that statement rings very true. Hopefully that was their MO as they thought it would be successful. Now that it's absolutely clear it has failed, both in terms of making money and footballing success....

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Lithuanian players have definitely had their time and place and reasons for playing and I don't doubt that certain people close to Romanov have had their reasons & preference for promoting these players but I don't think you can say it holds true for all (Romanov) time in every season / part season etc.

 

You could say 2nd half 2004-05, most of 2006-07 post euro exits, 1st half 2007-08 but not 2005-06 nor really 2007-08 latter period as the team sheets just don't bear that out because Kurskis & benuisis & Kancelskis all left, zaliukas & ksnavicius rarely played, miko / chesney as always seemed to swap with each other,velicka got sold, only screpis (argentinian) arrived etc.

 

Here are the debut dates for our Lithuanian players: (Thank you London Hearts).

 

2004/05

Miko - 25 Jan 2005

Kisys - 12 Feb 2005

Cesnauskis - 16 Feb 2005

 

2005/06

Jankauskis - 30 Jul 2005

Barasa - 14 Jan 2006

 

2006/07

Zaliukas - 26 Aug 2006

Velicka - 9 Sep 2006

Ivaskevicius - 20 Sep 2006

Kancelskis - 5 Mar 2007

Pilibaitis - 5 Mar 2007

 

2007/08

Beniusis - 6 August 2007

Ksanavicius - 6 Aug 2007

Kurskis - 8 Dec 2007

 

That looks pretty spread out to me. Since January 2005, six months of season time is the longest time that has passed without a Lithuanian making a debut. And that's just debuts - I'm not even listing the actual games played.

[Dr Ian Malcolm]

Yes, Hearts should cut costs and trade as efficiently as possible.

 

Yes, a club of our size should be selling players when we get a suitable offer.

 

No, we should not start buying big-name players to achieve short-term success (unless Vlad wants to start using his own money).

 

Yes, we should promote players from the academy.

 

I would be quite happy for Hearts to do all of this. But, crucially, if this was the aim of Vlad and UBIG we would have a manager and few of the problems we have now. No manager would refuse these perfectly reasonable conditions.

 

However, we could have done all of these things without the Lithuanian players here. They don't enhance or contribute towards this theory you've put forward. We managed to cut costs quite substantially under Craig levein and finish 3rd and read the UEFA Cup group stages without loan players from Kaunas.

 

The reason we're not doing this without the Lithuanian players is because they take priority - and then the board can concentrate on all this other stuff. I agree with everything you say, I just happen to think there is another, over-riding strategy.

 

 

Yes we were cost cutting when Levein was here but it still wasn't quite enough. Similar to just now, we had a few players on a higher wage (our better ones back then, these days thats questionable) with the rest of the sqaud on low wages (in relative terms). Its just now that quite a few of the "rest" are Lithuanians who command much lower wages than even the squad players we had under Levein. Most of them have also produced much poorer performances - it seems we got what we paid for in that respect. Vlad probably sees them as a cheap way to fill out the squad, regardless of ability.

 

Whether the cost cutting measures being applied these days will be any more successful than those in place pre-Vlad, we'll find out somehwre down the line.

 

As for not employing a manager, that could just be down to Vlad being a bit of a paranoid mentalist rather than him wanting to make sure the Liths get game-time (IMO of course). I actually think he does want Hearts to be a success, but he either can't see or more likely accept that his way of doing it hasn't and isn't going to work.