Geoff Kilpatrick Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Not immediately Have you ever made such a claim? Exactly this. There would have been a lot of disgruntled people waiting for a settlement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boaby Ewing Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 The FOH have been rubbishing other potential bids on a few occasions. Could this be another leak to push up pledges?? Reckon FoH got plastic surgery and learned to impersonate McKie's voice as well I'm not going to completely write off the McKie group over this. It doesn't sound like the plan was to screw season ticket holders as such, but to screw the credit cards companies (ahem, I mean treat them like other creditors). That strikes me as naive rather than malicious. It does, however, highlight a lack of funds backing them. If they can come to some sort of agreement with FoH with whatever money they've got, great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 A lot of anti-Gasman's consortium pant-wetting here. He's explained - the consortium (as far as he was aware) had expected BDO not to honour STs. 80% of STs at that stage had been bought by Credit cards meaning the majority if those who had purchased would get their cash back (cash that went into the old mobs financial black hole, remember). They could then re-buy and that would give the consortium working capital going forward. This was not some grand plan to shaft the fans. This does not mean they are jokers. They expected the credit card company to take the hit - so what. We cannot get sanctimonious about that! We are expecting UKIO/UBIG/HMRC to take a ?25m bath for our debt. Stop giving Gasman and the UK consortium grief. We still want them involved. Most of wanted a FoH/Gasman consortium double team! JKB at its worst this morning. Good post too. If they are working with FoH then one bid could be even stronger. The consortium know what is acceptable to Ukio which is the main hurdle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 I am not going to write them off from this, as its not 100% clear what exactly they were meaning with season tickets. Not McKee's best interview, undermining fan support for his group. When the club went into administration, all the monies raised on season tickets sales to that date had been / was being spent. People who had these season tickets (myself included) then just become creditors, as they do not have to be honoured post admin. The expectation was that this is what BDO would do, as this would allow any new owner to effectively resell them to generate income. Approximately 90% of fans would have got their money back, and the consortium were looking at ways they could help the remainder - so no fan would have been out of pocket. Those companies "insuring" Credit Card, some Debit Card, and Finance transactions, against a business going into administration would have had to pay out - as Hearts had gone into administration. BDO's public statement about honouring season tickets, let these insurers off the hook, and leaves any new owner with an income shortfall that has to be met somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boabyarsebiscuit Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 The FOH have been rubbishing other potential bids on a few occasions. Could this be another leak to push up pledges?? Take your tin-foil hat off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 It looks like they wanted the credit card companies to take the hit, add them to the creditors and let the fans who had bought ST's using credit cards buy again so that they had more cash-flow. Well if that the case they can just **** clean off! Am I right that they were hoping for the fans who have paid for season tickets to be told that they have wasted their money and now need to pay again! Is Charled Green involved with that lot? For me that would be the final straw. I would not re-pay and I am sure a few thousand more would be in the same boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geogth Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 I think their plan was to not honour season tickets already purchased, which is what I expected and is what would normally happen in this type of insolvency event. BDO clearly believed that the goodwill generated by honouring them would lead to fans donating money and thousands buying season tickets. Exactly what has happened. The consortium plan, assuming Gasman's numbers are correct, would have seen 80% of 7,000 already purchased reimbursed by he credit card companies to buy again. Of the remaining 20% or 1400 maybe half of them would be on Zebra so would be protected. That leaves about 700 fans who paid by cash who would have been hacked off. The 6,300 who were protected would have bought again generating approx ?2m of new working capital. Seems like a sensible plan. Seems like a sensible plan UNLESS you happen to be one of the 700 who lose out and are a hard working guy who has saved cash to buy yourself and your boy a ST and cant possibly afford to stump up again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 When the club went into administration, all the monies raised on season tickets sales to that date had been / was being spent. People who had these season tickets (myself included) then just become creditors, as they do not have to be honoured post admin. The expectation was that this is what BDO would do, as this would allow any new owner to effectively resell them to generate income. Approximately 90% of fans would have got their money back, and the consortium were looking at ways they could help the remainder - so no fan would have been out of pocket. Those companies "insuring" Credit Card, some Debit Card, and Finance transactions, against a business going into administration would have had to pay out - as Hearts had gone into administration. BDO's public statement about honouring season tickets, let these insurers off the hook, and leaves any new owner with an income shortfall that has to be met somehow. It also makes sense too, although the credit card companies are obviously still wary, for allowing the 3,000 target as many potential ways as possible for being purchased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Well if that the case they can just **** clean off! Am I right that they were hoping for the fans who have paid for season tickets to be told that they have wasted their money and now need to pay again! Is Charled Green involved with that lot? For me that would be the final straw. I would not re-pay and I am sure a few thousand more would be in the same boat. They were expecting you to pay again through your refund. The problem is that could, and would, have taken quite a while to settle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTweedy Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Sorry to disappoint, but go back and read the article - no where does it say they did not want to honour season tickets. What it says is they hadn't expected BDO to honour season tickets, which is not the same thing at all. It's very clear from the article that they didn't want season tickets honoured, and indeed that their plans depended on it, but wanted BDO to make that decision for them. As BDO have decided otherwise, they appear to have had their plans scuppered, as well as their credibility blown out of the water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 It was never their (or any other group's) choice, it was always going to be BDO's decision and the expectation was that as an administrator they would have treated season ticket holders exactly the same as any other creditor. At that time 80% had been bought by Credit Card, and the group were looking at how many of the remaining 20% used Zebra, or Debit Cards. They were looking to put something in place so even those not "insured" would not lose out. The "insurance" covers against companies going into administration, that's what it's there for. There was never any plan or intention by the consortium to stitch up fans over this - quite the opposite. OK. Thanks for sharing. That is different then, though I am intrigued as to how they would manage that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Their intention was never to stiff any fan, the expectation was that BDO wouldn't honour season tickets bought before the club went into administration. That would have been BDO's decision, and while most fans would have been "insured" (through Credit Cards, some Debit Cards, or Zebra) so would not have been out of pocket, the group were actually looking at ways to help that minority who may have been "stiffed" by that decision. First things first. I don't think anybody is having a go at you, or there is any "typical kickback reaction" happening here. Folk are rightly scrutinising this consortiums plans. You have been great in providing info to the board regarding the bid. Thus, what you say will be scrutinised. That sense, as bighusref points out, to try and spin the fact that they had no intention of being involved had season tickets been honoured is quite foolish. They may well have been creating safety nets for the minority paying by cash, but somebody has to take the hit. The credit card companies. As said before that isn't exactly the best way to form trustworthy relationships with our financial partners. Whether it was their decision or not, they only ever had one clause in their involvement. Gasman, as you accurately say. I think most folk do want a joint bid between FOH and another group. It will provide regular chunks of cash whilst real business minds run the club. I hope they can offer an attractive partnership with FOH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Axident Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Where's AIRCON and the Iron Lady talk I need a pick me up fast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaka Demus & pliers Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 So fans who paid by CC would potentially wait weeks or even months to get their money back? In the meantime, with no CC option available to them, would they then be expected to find another ?400 to buy their seat again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzbomb Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 The less bids the better as far as I'm concerned as you'd expect a lower bid to succeed. If FoH and the uk consortium have Hearts best interests at heart, why bid against each other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davie749 Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Not immediately Have you ever made such a claim? I understand it can take a while, my father had a planned holiday go tits up and he had to do claim it back. Agreed it took some time though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 When the club went into administration, all the monies raised on season tickets sales to that date had been / was being spent. People who had these season tickets (myself included) then just become creditors, as they do not have to be honoured post admin. The expectation was that this is what BDO would do, as this would allow any new owner to effectively resell them to generate income. Approximately 90% of fans would have got their money back, and the consortium were looking at ways they could help the remainder - so no fan would have been out of pocket. Those companies "insuring" Credit Card, some Debit Card, and Finance transactions, against a business going into administration would have had to pay out - as Hearts had gone into administration. BDO's public statement about honouring season tickets, let these insurers off the hook, and leaves any new owner with an income shortfall that has to be met somehow. But Gas one of the first things BDO said was they wanted to honour the season tickets purchased if they could. Did McKie miss this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 The less bids the better as far as I'm concerned as you'd expect a lower bid to succeed. If FoH and the uk consortium have Hearts best interests at heart, why bid against each other? Lower the bid less chance of cva imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hibsarepants Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 The McKie consortium were never going to bid against a fans backed bid. They have now offered to FoH to fund the CVA and let FoH have ownership of the football club. FoH would plug the first year funding gap by the use of their pledges. The funding gap is caused by BDO taking an action which is legally incorrect - giving an ordinary creditor a preferential treatment. By doing so they have stopped the football club post CVA gaining ?1m+ in revenues. Any fans who had paid cash would have been given a special one off free season ticket. The FoH are now in pole position with the backing of either the McKie consortuim or anothrer party to fund the CVA such that every ?1 pledged goes into to making Hearts a stronger football club. Keep pledging and apologies to Gas for getting stick. Hes big enough and ugly enough to handle it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 I think their plan was to not honour season tickets already purchased, which is what I expected and is what would normally happen in this type of insolvency event. BDO clearly believed that the goodwill generated by honouring them would lead to fans donating money and thousands buying season tickets. Exactly what has happened.The consortium plan, assuming Gasman's numbers are correct, would have seen 80% of 7,000 already purchased reimbursed by he credit card companies to buy again. Of the remaining 20% or 1400 maybe half of them would be on Zebra so would be protected. That leaves about 700 fans who paid by cash who would have been hacked off. The 6,300 who were protected would have bought again generating approx ?2m of new working capital. Seems like a sensible plan. That explains it better than I've been managing, thanks. The figure of 80% having used Credit Cards was the official figure given by the club.. How the remaining 20% was divided between Zebra (covered) Visa Debit (covered) other Debit, and Cash (not covered) is open to debate. The consortium felt that the end figure would be a small enough group of people that they could put something in place to make sure they didn't lose out either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterion Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 The expectation was that this is what BDO would do, as this would allow any new owner to effectively resell them to generate income. Approximately 90% of fans would have got their money back, and the consortium were looking at ways they could help the remainder - so no fan would have been out of pocket. I understand the principle, I understand the motives behind the business practice - but if I'm brutally honest it sounds like a car crash of an idea that would do a lot of damage. I have nothing against you or the views you have and I am open minded about the "Gasman consortium" as it is referred to. I just think the idea of putting fans through the wringer where they'd have to muck around with credit card claims would do a lot of damage and it would leave a number of people feeling aggrieved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Not a dig at you, but what a lot of shite. Only it's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Striker Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Not great news. If BDO didn't make the plea to the fans to purchase season tickets (and honour them) how did the consortium think the club could be kept running whilst in admin? Right from the beginning BDO said this wouldn't be a quick process and would take at least 3 months. Either way if they assumed BDO wouldn't honour the tickets or they thought they would be able to stiff the fans and successfully get them to buy another season ticket after a takeover this seems incredibly naive and not a great business plan. Despite this, if it comes down to the club surviving I would have no problem with them joining with FOH, but this has been a massive blow to their credibility. Looking increasingly likely that FOH might be the only serious bidder and with only 4,000 converted pledges that is worrying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzbomb Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 I think there will be a minimum acceptable price, but we'd want new owners paying that, not more. And, the more bids, the more chance of that minimum price being exceeded? Lower the bid less chance of cva imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geogth Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 The McKie consortium were never going to bid against a fans backed bid. They have now offered to FoH to fund the CVA and let FoH have ownership of the football club. FoH would plug the first year funding gap by the use of their pledges. The funding gap is caused by BDO taking an action which is legally incorrect - giving an ordinary creditor a preferential treatment. By doing so they have stopped the football club post CVA gaining ?1m+ in revenues. Any fans who had paid cash would have been given a special one off free season ticket. The FoH are now in pole position with the backing of either the McKie consortuim or anothrer party to fund the CVA such that every ?1 pledged goes into to making Hearts a stronger football club. Keep pledging and apologies to Gas for getting stick. Hes big enough and ugly enough to handle it. I thought the McKie consortium had already submitted their bid while FoH are in the process of putting theirs together. How does that sit with "The McKie consortium were never going to bid against a fans backed bid." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Oh come on. It wasn't said word for word but there is little doubt based on what they did say that they were working on the basis that they would have access to all revenue generated from season tickets. That means the ones already sold as well. Don't hide behind half truths please. If the previous regime taught you anything it is that honesty is most definitely the best policy. They were working on that basis, absolutely correct, I'm not trying to hide that. They fully expected BDO to treat season ticket holders like any other creditor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bickfest Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 I think their plan was to not honour season tickets already purchased, which is what I expected and is what would normally happen in this type of insolvency event. BDO clearly believed that the goodwill generated by honouring them would lead to fans donating money and thousands buying season tickets. Exactly what has happened. The consortium plan, assuming Gasman's numbers are correct, would have seen 80% of 7,000 already purchased reimbursed by he credit card companies to buy again. Of the remaining 20% or 1400 maybe half of them would be on Zebra so would be protected. That leaves about 700 fans who paid by cash who would have been hacked off. The 6,300 who were protected would have bought again generating approx ?2m of new working capital. Seems like a sensible plan. Precisely. As someone said earlier, not one of Gordon's best interviews since he didn't get close to getting that across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We_are_the_Hearts Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 First things first. I don't think anybody is having a go at you, or there is any "typical kickback reaction" happening here. Folk are rightly scrutinising this consortiums plans. You have been great in providing info to the board regarding the bid. Thus, what you say will be scrutinised. That sense, as bighusref points out, to try and spin the fact that they had no intention of being involved had season tickets been honoured is quite foolish. They may well have been creating safety nets for the minority paying by cash, but somebody has to take the hit. The credit card companies. As said before that isn't exactly the best way to form trustworthy relationships with our financial partners. Whether it was their decision or not, they only ever had one clause in their involvement. Gasman, as you accurately say. I think most folk do want a joint bid between FOH and another group. It will provide regular chunks of cash whilst real business minds run the club. I hope they can offer an attractive partnership with FOH. This........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Maybe the group see that FOH have the best intentions too and that the main person in the group is a Hearts fan without an ego so happy to go jointly? The consortium first contacted FoH, with a view to discussing this, over three months ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 In an ideal world they can work together and get us out this mess....cheers for the info though Gasman !! The consortium first contacted FoH over three months ago with a view to exactly that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartofmidlothian Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 First up, did anyone else get the bit in the article where McKie pretty much tells us his bid is 3m? I suspect Gasman's information also gives us a good idea why we haven't been able to pay by CC and DC. I can see the thinking behind McKie's plan tbh and it doesn't sound that unreasonable in desperate times, although if just one fan would have their season ticket ripped up and be unable to get another I'm glad it didn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmaroon Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Correct we need a surge in conversions Hallelujah! Amen! FoH offer the best assurance that the fans will be considered as of first importance - even if a white knight comes over the horizon at the last moment. Anyone wanting an excuse not to invest through pledging/converting will always be able to find one but, they are the best way forward, either as sole buyer if possible, or as a partner with another group who are not quite so blatantly fan insensitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Dee Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Having had to make a credit card claim against a company in Administration fairly recently, the whole process took about 9 months -which I believe is about par for the course. Not many fans would have been too chuffed about that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartofmidlothian Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 As I've said before, what we need is a consortium buying club, stadium etc if they can afford it and retaining 51% of the value, and gifting the rest of the shares they purchase to FoH in return for their converted pledges as working capital. McKie's plan adds another welcome dimension - that after, say, five years the 51% is also handed to FoH once their original stake and an annual interest return has been paid. The knowledge that they're essentially paying up the club before handover and determining what players we can afford in the meantime will hopefully keep pledges coming in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hibsarepants Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 I thought the McKie consortium had already submitted their bid while FoH are in the process of putting theirs together. How does that sit with "The McKie consortium were never going to bid against a fans backed bid." At the time there was no bid from FoH. It was a marker to get BDO to get a move on. That same day discussions opened up with FoH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydney Devine Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 When we went into administration I made the assumption that our season tickets wouldn't be honoured and I would have to re-purchase. In order to contribute towards the saving of our club I would have gladly bought my seat again for the season. Dependant on the bank the credit card claim is generally settled quickly especially in the high profile cases - such as flyglobespan and travel city direct and the Hearts story has generated significant press that would allow the claim to be paid with very little investigation. It was a pleasant surprise when the administrators said they would honour the existing sales. I have since donated money to JKB and directly to the club but not to the value of my season ticket - therefore I can see the logic of McKie's group (especially when they do not appear to have off the radar wealth and need cash to keep the club running). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 The less bids the better as far as I'm concerned as you'd expect a lower bid to succeed. If FoH and the uk consortium have Hearts best interests at heart, why bid against each other? The consortium have been trying to avoid exactly that, they first contacted FoH over three months ago with a view to discussing a possible joint bid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balders Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 The McKie consortium were never going to bid against a fans backed bid. They have now offered to FoH to fund the CVA and let FoH have ownership of the football club. FoH would plug the first year funding gap by the use of their pledges. The funding gap is caused by BDO taking an action which is legally incorrect - giving an ordinary creditor a preferential treatment. By doing so they have stopped the football club post CVA gaining ?1m+ in revenues. Any fans who had paid cash would have been given a special one off free season ticket. The FoH are now in pole position with the backing of either the McKie consortuim or anothrer party to fund the CVA such that every ?1 pledged goes into to making Hearts a stronger football club. Keep pledging and apologies to Gas for getting stick. Hes big enough and ugly enough to handle it. Thanks for this. So if the Mckie consortium fund a CVA over what period will they expect to be re-paid and would the expectation be that the repayment comes from FoH funding? So the Mckie consortium would take ownership initially for funding the CVA and then gradually pass ownership to FoH as they are repaid this upfront cash? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Am I right that they were hoping for the fans who have paid for season tickets to be told that they have wasted their money and now need to pay again! No, you're not right. the decision was always the administrators, not anyone else's. The consortium expected BDO would not honour season tickets sold pre-admin, and were actively looking at ways to prevent fans who were not covered under the Consumer Credit Act from being out of pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boabyarsebiscuit Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 McKie's consortium is now a non-factor. Onwards and upwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geogth Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 McKie's consortium is now a non-factor. Onwards and upwards. Wouldn't go that far but todays news has certainly been an eye-opener as to their intentions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Godfather Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 The consortium first contacted FoH, with a view to discussing this, over three months ago. I can imagine this to be the case especially if the group have the very best intentions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boabyarsebiscuit Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Wouldn't go that far but todays news has certainly been an eye-opener as to their intentions. FOH have a "more viable option" according to the release earlier today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 No, you're not right. the decision was always the administrators, not anyone else's. The consortium expected BDO would not honour season tickets sold pre-admin, and were actively looking at ways to prevent fans who were not covered under the Consumer Credit Act from being out of pocket. Would you agree that McKie and Co wanted BDO not to honour season tickets, to benefit their bid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deevers Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 We'll see after July 12th who the serious contenders are for the mantle of running the club. I've always reckoned that who ever does eventually get control of the club, it will be someone or group who have not courted publicity and who have just got on with doing what was necessary to put together a credible package. Situations such as we are in always seem to attract the publicity hungry and the down right chancers to the fore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 We'll see after July 12th who the serious contenders are for the mantle of running the club. I've always reckoned that who ever does eventually get control of the club, it will be someone or group who have not courted publicity and who have just got on with doing what was necessary to put together a credible package. Situations such as we are in always seem to attract the publicity hungry and the down right chancers to the fore. FOH being the exception to the rule. EDit: REmember last week when Iain Murray was telling anybody who would listen that FOH were the only real bid on the table after discussions with the numerous interested parties? Remember when he was hounded for saying that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hibsarepants Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Thanks for this. So if the Mckie consortium fund a CVA over what period will they expect to be re-paid and would the expectation be that the repayment comes from FoH funding? So the Mckie consortium would take ownership initially for funding the CVA apppadually pass ownership to FoH as they are repaid this upfront cash? There was no repayment but an option tourchase the stadium if they wanted to. It was a classic propco / opcmodel. FoH have decided to take the other funding option which I have no problem with . They remain remain the best solution going fwd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ford donald Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 All the more reason for supporters to pledge to FOH.Time is slipping away,dont miss this opportunity.last chance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geogth Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 It was a classic propco / opcmodel. Ah now i understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 But Gas one of the first things BDO said was they wanted to honour the season tickets purchased if they could. Did McKie miss this? Doubt he missed it, so what (if anything) has changed, I honestly don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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