UK consortium wont go it alone...

[Paolo]

Sorry to disappoint, but go back and read the article - no where does it say they did not want to honour season tickets. What it says is they hadn't expected BDO to honour season tickets, which is not the same thing at all.

 

True, it is not, but the article does suggest it will result in a ?1 million shortfall, meaning they can not go it alone. If they had not projected this, it is fair to assume it was not their intention.

 

If I am wrong and they do intend to honour season tickets, and always had done, then I apologise - it is just my interpretation of the story.

[Italian Lambretta]

If the article is correct and it was leaving them with 1m working capital shortfall because season tickets had been honoured, then they must have been hoping that all season tickets would be null and void.

 

 

 

 

Sorry to disappoint, but go back and read the article - no where does it say they did not want to honour season tickets. What it says is they hadn't expected BDO to honour season tickets, which is not the same thing at all.

[sac]

It looks more like they just want to put in the bare minimum required along with the FOH to secure ownership, and then over time the FoH pay them their investment back until FoH are outright owners. If McKie and his mob are genuinely Hearts-minded people and this is their ultimate plan, would that not be ok?

[Russian Hats]

I think the FOH already have the money in place from their own backers, so McKie's group aren't needed for just funding.

As said on many occasions any potential buyer that refused to honour the season tickets and expected the Hearts fans to stump up twice can go and find another club to invest.

 

Lets hope so but FoH overall professionalism and basic organisational skills have been poor and they have intimated the desire/need to go in partnership with others. Power struggle on ownership needs to be sorted in a few days unless its always been the plan being worked on in background!

[The Gasman]

So they based everything on BDO no honouring the season tickets and had no other game plan ?

 

Working in partnership with FoH is another game plan, and is exactly what most fans were asking / hoping for.

[Russian Hats]

It looks more like they just want to put in the bare minimum required along with the FOH to secure ownership, and then over time the FoH pay them their investment back until FoH are outright owners. If McKie and his mob are genuinely Hearts-minded people and this is their ultimate plan, would that not be ok?

 

Maybe but what's in it for them? They get diluted shares and promise of cash back (token promise) with say a profit but try put up the cash.

[davieholt]

Disappointing that stiffing the ST holders was a central plank of their business plan.

[Back to 2005]

 

 

Working in partnership with FoH is another game plan, and is exactly what most fans were asking / hoping for.

Yes but only if we feel we can trust this mob. I think this will not be the case now unfortunately.

[Martin_T]

Working in partnership with FoH is another game plan, and is exactly what most fans were asking / hoping for.

Yup, this seems to be exactly what most of us were asking for? I think we are getting to the stage where there is not going to be much of a shortfall this season to fund, we now have an average to below average SPL squad in terms of cost and have now sold more season tickets in the past two weeks than most of the smaller SPL clubs (St Johnstone, ICT, Partick Thistle, Ross County) who will all definitely sell less than 3000 in total.

[sac]

R H, if there are genuine Hearts people in the McKie consortium then there is no need for a power struggle as all parties should be working for the greater good, which of course is Hearts.

 

I do agree with you in that this does make them look a bit unprofessional, nay almost amateurish. However it is a news article in the Herald and when has any paper been 100% on the money.

 

 

[Jambof3tornado]

Good news as far as I can see as I'd rather FOH were involved in any takeover.

As for mckie lot having no money they will be funding the cva ffs!!!

As for giving gasman grief.........typical jkb action! He has told us what he could when he could, no more no less.

[babertonjambo]

Good news as far as I can see as I'd rather FOH were involved in any takeover.

As for mckie lot having no money they will be funding the cva ffs!!!

As for giving gasman grief.........typical jkb action! He has told us what he could when he could, no more no less.

 

This!

[ToadKiller Dog]

BDO have stated we have money to run to 2014 , they project a profit of 400,000 sticking to their plans , clearly we will need to strengthen player wise at some point though .

This good news Mckies group doing this .

We need the right sort of bid put forward to take us over and if the foundations chose them or the other party I see that as a good step .

All interested groups will be looking at their offers .

It's correct for that group to announce this now rather than waste BDOs time .

[The Gasman]

 

True, it is not, but the article does suggest it will result in a ?1 million shortfall, meaning they can not go it alone. If they had not projected this, it is fair to assume it was not their intention.

 

If I am wrong and they do intend to honour season tickets, and always had done, then I apologise - it is just my interpretation of the story.

 

It was never their (or any other group's) choice, it was always going to be BDO's decision and the expectation was that as an administrator they would have treated season ticket holders exactly the same as any other creditor.

 

At that time 80% had been bought by Credit Card, and the group were looking at how many of the remaining 20% used Zebra, or Debit Cards.

 

They were looking to put something in place so even those not "insured" would not lose out. The "insurance" covers against companies going into administration, that's what it's there for. There was never any plan or intention by the consortium to stitch up fans over this - quite the opposite.

[Jammy T]

Oh dear

 

I said this elsewhere at the time, this sort of thing completely vindicates BDO opening up Hearts website to FOH.

 

Even apparent good guy bidders may have booby trap bids

[The Gasman]

Disappointing that stiffing the ST holders was a central plank of their business plan.

 

The decision was BDO's, not the consortium's.

[DETTY29]

 

 

It was never their (or any other group's) choice, it was always going to be BDO's decision and the expectation was that as an administrator they would have treated season ticket holders exactly the same as any other creditor.

 

At that time 80% had been bought by Credit Card, and the group were looking at how many of the remaining 20% used Zebra, or Debit Cards.

 

They were looking to put something in place so even those not "insured" would not lose out. The "insurance" covers against companies going into administration, that's what it's there for. There was never any plan or intention by the consortium to stitch up fans over this - quite the opposite.

Is any if that 80% being withheld by the credit card companies or its agents?

[Jammy T]

 

 

The decision was BDO's, not the consortium's.

 

Didn't BDO confirm this weeks ago?

 

If so what was in the bid they put in?

 

Genuinely sounds like they have got cold feet all of a sudden. Maybe one of their money guys has pulled out.

 

You may have a mate involved but I am pretty certain you won't be getting told the full story.

[kingantti1874]

 

 

It was never their (or any other group's) choice, it was always going to be BDO's decision and the expectation was that as an administrator they would have treated season ticket holders exactly the same as any other creditor.

 

At that time 80% had been bought by Credit Card, and the group were looking at how many of the remaining 20% used Zebra, or Debit Cards.

 

They were looking to put something in place so even those not "insured" would not lose out. The "insurance" covers against companies going into administration, that's what it's there for. There was never any plan or intention by the consortium to stitch up fans over this - quite the opposite.

 

That's fair enough mate, I'm still grateful they are around and willing to help but the thing I don't get, and I have to confess this is not specific to this group, even removing the existing 7k season tickets, we have just sold an additional 3k,which is more than most spl clubs will sell in total... I'm a bit puzzled tbh how, given we have the smallest wage bill in the league, this is only enough to see us to Jan

[The Gasman]

Good news as far as I can see as I'd rather FOH were involved in any takeover.

As for mckie lot having no money they will be funding the cva ffs!!!

 

They had already provided proof of funding sufficient for Ukio's Administrator, and have offered to (if required) provide FoH with proof of funding.

[7628mm]

Good news as far as I can see as I'd rather FOH were involved in any takeover.

As for mckie lot having no money they will be funding the cva ffs!!!

As for giving gasman grief.........typical jkb action! He has told us what he could when he could, no more no less.

 

I think you will find that people are suggesting that McKie and co do not have "enough" money if ?1,000,000 shortfall scuppers their go it alone plans.

 

Poor old Gasman is in a bit of a pickle here as he has firmly plumped for one horse in this race and has been backing it to the hilt, which is his right of course.

As for giving the Gasman grief............typical JKB action well we all know that is the way of it and does get out of hand frequently on here and I am against personal abuse unless absolutely warranted.

 

There is an old saying which should be used at this time remembering this is an internet forum and for discusion of Hearts related football topics not a government site telling us "the truth".

 

"Believe nothing that you hear/read and only half of what you see".

[The Gasman]

Is any if that 80% being withheld by the credit card companies or its agents?

 

I believe so, yes, but I've absolutely no idea if that's a few pounds, or a few hundreds of thousands of pounds.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

 

 

They had already provided proof of funding sufficient for Ukio's Administrator, and have offered to (if required) provide FoH with proof of funding.

Will that funding reduce, though, if there is a combined bid?

[ramrod]

first of the jokers outed, lets hope the reported other 3 interested prospective buyers can produce.........................

[Jammy T]

 

Will that funding reduce, though, if there is a combined bid?

 

Exactly

 

Months of work, apparent close liaising with Lithuanians, lots of homework and due diligence and this one (fairly obvious) issue scuppers their sole bid.

 

Pretty bizarre if you ask me for an alleged professional and astute outfit

 

So with FOH they don't get full control, I can only presume they don't put as much money in.

[The Gasman]

 

Didn't BDO confirm this weeks ago?

 

If so what was in the bid they put in?

 

Genuinely sounds like they have got cold feet all of a sudden. Maybe one of their money guys has pulled out.

 

You may have a mate involved but I am pretty certain you won't be getting told the full story.

 

There's no "pretty certain" about it, I'm not part of the consortium, so would never get the full story.

 

....and I agree that it does sound like something's changed, albeit I've known for a bit they were putting together a proposal for FoH.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

The one thing that isn't clear is, with this alleged ?1m shortfall, is that simply a projection of a working capital need for the rest of the season which, if so, could be covered by a bank secured on Tynie, or, is there other borrowings being used to fund the bid, in which case that security will go elsewhere?

[The Gasman]

Will that funding reduce, though, if there is a combined bid?

 

Absolutely no idea, as I'm not privvy (and wouldn't expect to be) to the detail of the consortiums proposal to FoH.

[The Gasman]

first of the jokers outed, lets hope the reported other 3 interested prospective buyers can produce.........................

 

[bighusref]

Really surprised at the reaction to this, I must be reading this wrong.

 

Was their intention to stiff the loyal fans who had renewed early and make them pay again? Now that option is off the table they aren't interested. Is that right?

 

If that is the case they can ram it. To think fans say that the current regime don't care about the fans but there are folk on this HOPING these guys align themselves to another group and maintain interest?

 

Any group these guys join gets the big fat no from me.

[Russian Hats]

Cold hard cash, available and evidenced and in the millions.

 

Lets hope the real bidders have this.

[The Gasman]

 

....Poor old Gasman is in a bit of a pickle here as he has firmly plumped for one horse in this race and has been backing it to the hilt, which is his right of course....

 

Gasman pledged to FoH within days of it being set up, Gasman has encouraged others on here to pledge as well, and converted his pledge last week. Gasman knows how to hedge his bets..!

 

I still do believe that the guys in the consortium are genuine guys, and with the best interests of HMFC at their hearts.

[RENE]

 

 

Working in partnership with FoH is another game plan, and is exactly what most fans were asking / hoping for.

 

Is this why FOH said yesterday that they have two sources for money for a buyout.

[Davie749]

What's the old saying? Oh yes, don't shoot the messenger.

 

I think Gasmans said all that he has been told, I wouldn't have thought he would have been privy to EVERYTHING going on.

 

Having said that, there's no surprises here, a joint bid was always going to be the way forward. Any consortium would be foolish not to take the offer up from FoH and regular monies in from pledges.

 

 

[jamboinglasgow]

I am not going to write them off from this, as its not 100% clear what exactly they were meaning with season tickets. Not McKee's best interview, undermining fan support for his group.

[The Gasman]

Was their intention to stiff the loyal fans who had renewed early and make them pay again? Now that option is off the table they aren't interested. Is that right?

 

Their intention was never to stiff any fan, the expectation was that BDO wouldn't honour season tickets bought before the club went into administration.

 

That would have been BDO's decision, and while most fans would have been "insured" (through Credit Cards, some Debit Cards, or Zebra) so would not have been out of pocket, the group were actually looking at ways to help that minority who may have been "stiffed" by that decision.

[bighusref]

 

 

Their intention was never to stiff any fan, the expectation was that BDO wouldn't honour season tickets bought before the club went into administration.

 

That would have been BDO's decision, and while most fans would have been "insured" (through Credit Cards, some Debit Cards, or Zebra) so would not have been out of pocket, the group were actually looking at ways to help that minority who may have been "stiffed" by that decision.

 

Not a dig at you, but what a lot of shite.

[The Gasman]

 

Is this why FOH said yesterday that they have two sources for money for a buyout.

 

I wasn't aware they'd said that, but quite possibly, yes.

[soonbe110]

Really surprised at the reaction to this, I must be reading this wrong.

 

Was their intention to stiff the loyal fans who had renewed early and make them pay again? Now that option is off the table they aren't interested. Is that right?

 

If that is the case they can ram it. To think fans say that the current regime don't care about the fans but there are folk on this HOPING these guys align themselves to another group and maintain interest?

 

Any group these guys join gets the big fat no from me.

I think their plan was to not honour season tickets already purchased, which is what I expected and is what would normally happen in this type of insolvency event. BDO clearly believed that the goodwill generated by honouring them would lead to fans donating money and thousands buying season tickets. Exactly what has happened.

The consortium plan, assuming Gasman's numbers are correct, would have seen 80% of 7,000 already purchased reimbursed by he credit card companies to buy again. Of the remaining 20% or 1400 maybe half of them would be on Zebra so would be protected. That leaves about 700 fans who paid by cash who would have been hacked off. The 6,300 who were protected would have bought again generating approx ?2m of new working capital. Seems like a sensible plan.

[rabthejambo]

 

 

Sorry to disappoint, but go back and read the article - no where does it say they did not want to honour season tickets. What it says is they hadn't expected BDO to honour season tickets, which is not the same thing at all.

 

Oh come on. It wasn't said word for word but there is little doubt based on what they did say that they were working on the basis that they would have access to all revenue generated from season tickets. That means the ones already sold as well. Don't hide behind half truths please. If the previous regime taught you anything it is that honesty is most definitely the best policy.

[Craig_]

I am not going to write them off from this, as its not 100% clear what exactly they were meaning with season tickets. Not McKee's best interview, undermining fan support for his group.

 

I'm in the same boat. Have read it a few times, and can't work out whether he's saying the finance companies will have to settle for p in the ? (as part of a CVA) or whether all STs are null and void.

 

Mind you, I'm only halfway through my first coffee of the day, so things don't tend to make much sense just now!

[Davie749]

 

 

 

Not a dig at you, but what a lot of shite.

 

Not really, anyone who had bought season tickets through a finance option or with a credit card would have received their money back and been able to purchase new briefs with the money going to the new consortium. It's not hard to understand.

[Jammy T]

 

 

Not a dig at you, but what a lot of shite.

 

This.

 

Gas dont take any of this to heart!

 

As I said BDO were clear on the season ticket point and their stance isn't unusual for football administrations

 

At best naieve but I am not buying that.

[Cardiac Rucksack]

The FOH have been rubbishing other potential bids on a few occasions. Could this be another leak to push up pledges??

[The Godfather]

Maybe the group see that FOH have the best intentions too and that the main person in the group is a Hearts fan without an ego so happy to go jointly?

 

Honouring season tickets just amends the bid from them and probably from all the others too. Agree PR on this was poor though.

 

With Gasman, hedge bets.

[ToadKiller Dog]

 

 

Their intention was never to stiff any fan, the expectation was that BDO wouldn't honour season tickets bought before the club went into administration.

 

That would have been BDO's decision, and while most fans would have been "insured" (through Credit Cards, some Debit Cards, or Zebra) so would not have been out of pocket, the group were actually looking at ways to help that minority who may have been "stiffed" by that decision.

 

You do have to ask why they were confident that BDO would have not honoured the STs also why they didn't have an action place in case BDO which they did , honoured the STs .

 

Not going to have a go at them they were and have been good enough to step forward and try to save the club and might still do .

 

[Jammy T]

 

 

 

Not really, anyone who had bought season tickets through a finance option or with a credit card would have received their money back and been able to purchase new briefs with the money going to the new consortium. It's not hard to understand.

 

Not immediately

 

Have you ever made such a claim?

[TheMaganator]

A lot of anti-Gasman's consortium pant-wetting here.

 

He's explained - the consortium (as far as he was aware) had expected BDO not to honour STs. 80% of STs at that stage had been bought by Credit cards meaning the majority if those who had purchased would get their cash back (cash that went into the old mobs financial black hole, remember). They could then re-buy and that would give the consortium working capital going forward.

 

This was not some grand plan to shaft the fans. This does not mean they are jokers. They expected the credit card company to take the hit - so what. We cannot get sanctimonious about that! We are expecting UKIO/UBIG/HMRC to take a ?25m bath for our debt.

 

Stop giving Gasman and the UK consortium grief. We still want them involved. Most of wanted a FoH/Gasman consortium double team!

 

JKB at its worst this morning.

[Zachearts]

 

 

I wasn't aware they'd said that, but quite possibly, yes.

In an ideal world they can work together and get us out this mess....cheers for the info though Gasman !!

[Haken]

I think what leaves a slightly bad taste is the way that the fans' action appears to be being treated as some sort of acceptable collateral damage. It's okay, most of them will be insured and they can just go out and buy their tickets again. Those who paid in cash, well there won't be too many of them so we'll try and come up with something that'll see them alright.

 

The key word for me is 'honour', as in the decision by BDO to 'honour' those season tickets. That decision gave the fans hope that something positive could be achieved and acted as the lever to get those fans who had delayed buying season tickets to start buying. For people to base a business plan on the possibility that a lack of honour would be shown, thus allowing a cash stream to be reincarnated, just doesn't seem right. It's probably an accepted practice in the big bad business world. But we all know that football isn't like other business. The business of a football club is all about the fans, and not honouring those initial few thousand season tickets would have been akin to not honouring the fans. Imo.