Special Agent Dale Cooper Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 for all intensive purposes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rods Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 I believe an Italian group are working on a bid - whether that involves Massone who knows. Does this involve the guy that was after Birmingham? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott herbertson Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 As long as they are able to take it on, stabilise it, and make it profitable I would not be too bothered. A good businessman would want to make it worth more than what he/she paid for it. (I don't think Massone would fall into my definition of a "good businessman", and I'd still strongly recommend pledging/converting to FoH, since I have no idea of my mythical good businessman exists). shock horror Francis goes all pinko liberal on us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 What happens if one of the bids is someone who has zero interest in the long term of Hearts. Wouldnt be good but there's nothing we can do to stop them if they are BDO's preferred bidder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTBCAL Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Wouldnt be good but there's nothing we can do to stop them if they are BDO's preferred bidder. If everyone converted now it may influence the bid put forward by FoH, however as Geoff said its probably agreed what it is etc.... Already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTBCAL Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Does this involve the guy that was after Birmingham? No idea. I know someone who has been working on the legal side of things who was involved with Livi previously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 If everyone converted now it may influence the bid put forward by FoH, however as Geoff said its probably agreed what it is etc.... Already. It will be and you need to remember that BDO don't care how many fans have pledged. They are representing creditors and want the best deal for them not the fans. Even if FoH are unsuccessful any new owner would be crazy not to have either a similar equity purchase scheme similar to FoH's or possibly a membership scheme that may eventually lead to a share in the ownership of the Club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack mcnee Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 No idea. I know someone who has been working on the legal side of things who was involved with Livi previously Does that mean they were involved with livi during the Massone era or different occasion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 I believe an Italian group are working on a bid - whether that involves Massone who knows. There will probably be other bids as well. Hearts really are a bargain at ?4-5m so I'd expect anyone with a desire to own a decent UK football club to be interested. Whetehr they will run the Club the way 'we' want them to is another matter however it is likely that they will be trying to build something they can later sell on at a profit. A combination of an astute owner and the fans with an element of ownership could be a huge winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 There will probably be other bids as well. Hearts really are a bargain at ?4-5m so I'd expect anyone with a desire to own a decent UK football club to be interested. Whetehr they will run the Club the way 'we' want them to is another matter however it is likely that they will be trying to build something they can later sell on at a profit. A combination of an astute owner and the fans with an element of ownership could be a huge winner. Not as much a bargain as sevco at ?5m and look how they ended up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Not as much a bargain as sevco at ?5m and look how they ended up... Unfortunately they will be back in the top league soon and they will be back in Europe soon after. Green's purchase of Sevco was the bargain of the century. He bought it, sold it at a significant profit, and got out before he had to fix the cost structure. Current management team will fix their cost structure and they will be a serious force again. Hearts with an ?8-9m turnover is a business that should be profitable every year unless the owner wants to massage his ego with big money, big salary, signings. With fans buying a 50% share of the company back over a five year period there will be plenty of money to either take a large profit or reinvest in stadium/squad etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starsky Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 If there is an option to buy land for property and that bid is higher than any other then administrator is legally bound to recommend that. Council hold key to that re planning permission and hopefully no developer would want the political fall out. Still a major risk though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amjam Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Unfortunately they will be back in the top league soon and they will be back in Europe soon after. Green's purchase of Sevco was the bargain of the century. He bought it, sold it at a significant profit, and got out before he had to fix the cost structure. Current management team will fix their cost structure and they will be a serious force again. Hearts with an ?8-9m turnover is a business that should be profitable every year unless the owner wants to massage his ego with big money, big salary, signings. With fans buying a 50% share of the company back over a five year period there will be plenty of money to either take a large profit or reinvest in stadium/squad etc. They won't be back in the top league, because they've never been in the top league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawasakijambo Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 I think the average will be ?20 at very best. Still though, 100k a month, ?1.2 million a year additionial revenue shouldn't be scoffed at. That is on top of season ticket sales and league/TV income. Obviously in relation to the bid they must have people willing to provide some up front funds (this alternative funding stream talked about). FOH would never have made a successful bid off the back of pledges. If all the pledges were ?20 a month, I think this would be a monumental effort from the fans. I can only speak for myself, but I really believe I will not miss that amount per month. I more worry about the fans, who have pledged more than they can are actually afford. I know they have the best intentions mind, but I would say, "Just pledge any money you would not miss!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Unfortunately they will be back in the top league soon and they will be back in Europe soon after. Green's purchase of Sevco was the bargain of the century. He bought it, sold it at a significant profit, and got out before he had to fix the cost structure. Current management team will fix their cost structure and they will be a serious force again. Hearts with an ?8-9m turnover is a business that should be profitable every year unless the owner wants to massage his ego with big money, big salary, signings. With fans buying a 50% share of the company back over a five year period there will be plenty of money to either take a large profit or reinvest in stadium/squad etc. I think this is delusional. There are no profitable SPL clubs, with the possible exception of Celtic. Nobody invests in Scottish football as a business proposition, except perhaps for conmen like Green - I'm assuming you don't want a situation like that for Hearts. Also, I don't think there is the same appetite amongst fans to buy up a chunk of the club if it isn't part of a long-term scheme to take full ownership. People are willing to invest money to save Hearts, not to give some random businessman a fat profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 If all the pledges were ?20 a month, I think this would be a monumental effort from the fans. I can only speak for myself, but I really believe I will not miss that amount per month. I more worry about the fans, who have pledged more than they can are actually afford. I know they have the best intentions mind, but I would say, "Just pledge any money you would not miss!" The "trying to gauge FOH efforts" thread/poll suggests that the average monthly donation is about ?19.50. Great stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 I think this is delusional. There are no profitable SPL clubs, with the possible exception of Celtic. Nobody invests in Scottish football as a business proposition, except perhaps for conmen like Green - I'm assuming you don't want a situation like that for Hearts. Also, I don't think there is the same appetite amongst fans to buy up a chunk of the club if it isn't part of a long-term scheme to take full ownership. People are willing to invest money to save Hearts, not to give some random businessman a fat profit. While I find soonbe110's position on FoH incomprehensible I am not sure about this. It's hypothetical at present but if someone bought the club for (say) ?5m than sold 51% of it off over a period of say 3 years with a modest return on their investment (say by selling the 51% for ?3m over 3 years) I think there would be a healthy appetite. If done via a vehicle such as FoH which voted the fans' shares en bloc then it would give most of of the control that 100% FoH ownership gives at significantly lower cost, leaving more funds to invest in the team, academy, ground etc. (It also remains to be seen on what terms FoH's funding is being provided - I find it hard to believe FoH will get full unconditional control and ownership from day 1 if someone is funding the whole of or most of the up-front purchase cost.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 While I find soonbe110's position on FoH incomprehensible I am not sure about this. It's hypothetical at present but if someone bought the club for (say) ?5m than sold 51% of it off over a period of say 3 years with a modest return on their investment (say by selling the 51% for ?3m over 3 years) I think there would be a healthy appetite. If done via a vehicle such as FoH which voted the fans' shares en bloc then it would give most of of the control that 100% FoH ownership gives at significantly lower cost, leaving more funds to invest in the team, academy, ground etc. (It also remains to be seen on what terms FoH's funding is being provided - I find it hard to believe FoH will get full unconditional control and ownership from day 1 if someone is funding the whole of or most of the up-front purchase cost.) I don't think what you suggested really contradicts what I said. Nobody would make a ridiculous profit, and the fans would gain overall control. That might work, but I very much doubt it's on the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieholt Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 If there is an option to buy land for property and that bid is higher than any other then administrator is legally bound to recommend that. Council hold key to that re planning permission and hopefully no developer would want the political fall out. Still a major risk though. The administrator is inviting bids for the company that runs the club as a going concern. They are not looking for offers for the underlying assets. That would come about if the cva failed and we were heading for liquidation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starsky Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 If the bids are well below the value of the land they would have to look at that as in option. In theory. Look at rangers however, the value of their assets was embarrassingly low allowing the purchase at such a low price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starsky Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 If the bids are well below the value of the land they would have to look at that as in option. In theory. Look at rangers however, the value of their assets was embarrassingly low allowing the purchase at such a low price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 I don't think what you suggested really contradicts what I said. Nobody would make a ridiculous profit, and the fans would gain overall control. That might work, but I very much doubt it's on the table. But it does completely reinforce my post which you said was delusional Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 But it does completely reinforce my post which you said was delusional No, it doesn't. Your post was delusional because you think that investing in Hearts is a good business opportunity. It isn't. It's irrelevant talking about some non-existent scheme for the fans to buy the club off a hypothetical businessman. All I said was that FA's proposal might get some take up. Personally, I think there's almost exactly zero chance of such an offer (with those figures, or broadly similar ones) being made. I think anyone who wants fan ownership (and I'm pretty ambivalent) knows exactly how to get it, and it isn't through a scheme like yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettigrewsstylist Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 If everyone converted now it may influence the bid put forward by FoH, however as Geoff said its probably agreed what it is etc.... Already. I dont think so PTBAL,,, lot of activity this week in promotion work,,,and whilst i cant be 100% i thought i heard Murray say last week when he refused UK Gp advances that whilst he had secured alternative capital to negotiate CVA with, that capital release would be decided by silent investor on a sliding sale in direct relation to pledges converted My mind may be playing tricks on me bit it was a serious point and one i recall noting at the time! smoke and mirrors? perhaps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettigrewsstylist Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 If all the pledges were ?20 a month, I think this would be a monumental effort from the fans. I can only speak for myself, but I really believe I will not miss that amount per month. I more worry about the fans, who have pledged more than they can are actually afford. I know they have the best intentions mind, but I would say, "Just pledge any money you would not miss!" Its all about the crocodile nearest the boat right now though i guess Dennis, must admit I had same thoughts but then i suppose an evolving process would/could see more pledges being made all the time etc as some drop off Teenagers get their 1st job,, students leave uni etc,,,kids leave home lol besides if it gives us 2 yrs breathing space compared to where we were 3 weeks ago ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmaroon Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 The administrator is inviting bids for the company that runs the club as a going concern. They are not looking for offers for the underlying assets. That would come about if the cva failed and we were heading for liquidation. Correct but, it doesn't mean that the successful bidder can't then asset strip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettigrewsstylist Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 From todays evening news ''Murray today outlined the opportunity open to Hearts supporters if they back the Foundation, which plans to run the club through a membership scheme. He wants more cash pledges to help secure preferred bidder status before trying to get the club out of administration. ?This is a real chance for Hearts fans to seize the moment,? he told the Evening News. ?If they just want to wait for a mysterious ?white knight? to come in, that?s all good and well. For every converted pledge we have, the process is an awful lot easier. Don?t wake up on Saturday morning with BDO locking the club up because there are no bids in. ?Hearts are still in the premier league. We have a small squad and we have sanctions to come but we might just have a chance of getting out of this. We have some of the best youngsters in the country and if three or four of them click we might just stave off relegation. Then the future becomes very bright.? Murray is aware some fans remain unconvinced about the Foundation. ?What I?d say to the fans who are still sceptical and haven?t pledged is: By five o?clock tomorrow, if the Foundation of Hearts bid is not in, or we can?t afford it or we decide not to do it, there might not be anybody else. Other potential bidders may or may not be there, it may be just speculation, they may or may not be able to pull their bid together. ?I?m not suggesting any of the other bidders are being inappropriate, all I?m saying is we?re being transparent. We?re going to walk through the doors of Tynecastle before tomorrow?s deadline and give them our bid. It?s the only bid that is really on the table, that is truly transparent and that the fans can truly influence.'' Dont think the boy can make it any more 'lay' than that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 From todays evening news ''Murray today outlined the opportunity open to Hearts supporters if they back the Foundation, which plans to run the club through a membership scheme. He wants more cash pledges to help secure preferred bidder status before trying to get the club out of administration. ?This is a real chance for Hearts fans to seize the moment,? he told the Evening News. ?If they just want to wait for a mysterious ?white knight? to come in, that?s all good and well. For every converted pledge we have, the process is an awful lot easier. Don?t wake up on Saturday morning with BDO locking the club up because there are no bids in. ?Hearts are still in the premier league. We have a small squad and we have sanctions to come but we might just have a chance of getting out of this. We have some of the best youngsters in the country and if three or four of them click we might just stave off relegation. Then the future becomes very bright.? Murray is aware some fans remain unconvinced about the Foundation. ?What I?d say to the fans who are still sceptical and haven?t pledged is: By five o?clock tomorrow, if the Foundation of Hearts bid is not in, or we can?t afford it or we decide not to do it, there might not be anybody else. Other potential bidders may or may not be there, it may be just speculation, they may or may not be able to pull their bid together. ?I?m not suggesting any of the other bidders are being inappropriate, all I?m saying is we?re being transparent. We?re going to walk through the doors of Tynecastle before tomorrow?s deadline and give them our bid. It?s the only bid that is really on the table, that is truly transparent and that the fans can truly influence.'' Dont think the boy can make it any more 'lay' than that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense to me. By the time most read this, the FoH bid was already in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense to me. By the time most read this, the FoH bid was already in! He said it yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 He said it yesterday. Apologies. The EEN article quoted seemed to suggest today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettigrewsstylist Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense to me. By the time most read this, the FoH bid was already in! What time did the bid go in today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 What time did the bid go in today? FoH announced it had been submitted at 3.30pm today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 He said it yesterday. He is quoted as saying the deadline for bids is 5pm tomorrow, so he clearly said it today. (Earlier apology withdrawn!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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